Debates of May 9th, 2012

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, I thank the member for Selkirk—Interlake for his leadership as chair of the defence committee and the very good news he shared with us tonight that we will have the opportunity to delve in detail to deal with the issues around health care and mental health care for the Canadian Forces.

He is absolutely right when he talks about the broad array of services that are provided by the members of the Canadian Forces. They truly do stand on guard for thee. As we sit here tonight, we have members who are at the ready to respond to search and rescue, who are at sea, who continue to do important work in preparation of missions that await. We have to be there for them. There is no higher priority, I would suggest, no higher obligation for a government, for a minister of defence, than to ensure that we care for the ill and injured, and that is exactly what we do.

It is more than just money. We have seen an overall increase of $100 million into the issues around health and mental health since we took office in 2006. This is in addition to the ongoing capital of $439.6 million for the Canadian Forces health care.

We have a strong network across the country of programs, of infrastructure, that includes what the hon. member mentioned at 17 Wing in his province, a $3.9 million investment in infrastructure.

To ensure the ill and injured have first-class health care so they can get the care that they need and rightly deserve, we have opened 24 integrated personal support centres, one stop shopping for the ill and the injured that will allow our personnel, our veterans, our family members to go to those locations across the country and get the help they need.

We created the “Soldier On” program to give ill and injured soldiers and members and veterans the opportunity to stay physically fit. I commend people like Master Corporal Jody Mitic and others who have shown great leadership in this program and continue to support these efforts across the country.

We have also targeted more resources in the area of mental health. There has been discussion about this. We are continuing, and in fact increasing, our support for those in need of mental health counselling. I want to say a word about the tremendous contribution made in this regard by Canadian Forces chaplains, and that includes imams and rabbis. Non-denominational support is there for the members when they need it, in addition to the professional psychologists and psychiatrists who are there as well.

We have committed to doubling the number of mental health professionals. We continue to make investments in that regard in great strides. However, as the Chief of the Defence Staff has said, there is an acute shortage across the country, so we continue to reach out to those professional associations to work with us to ensure, in particular, that reservists, who do not necessarily live on base or near base, are also able to access those important services.

On some rotations in Afghanistan, we had up to 25% participation for reservists. Therefore, this issue is not escaping our watchful eye and we continue to make these important efforts. We know that issues around mental health and suicide are of particular attention and focus. We have to ensure those who are in need of that support receive it and that they realize there is no shame in asking for that support.

Most often it is a friend, a battle buddy or a family member who pushes and encourages the member to come forward. We want to bring these issues out into the light, out into the discussion, in the public, to ensure that no stigma, no adverse inference whatsoever is applied to those who seek this important help.

I again want to commend the Chief of the Defence Staff for his personal leadership in this regard, which was recognized by the Canadian Mental Health Association with an award two years ago to the Canadian Forces.

On the physical injuries side, which my friend rightly pointed out, those with physical injuries are also being addressed. We have made important investments in cutting edge technology. The CAREN system, the computer assisted rehabilitation environment system, is now available in Edmonton and in Ottawa.

I want to thank my colleague from Edmonton Centre who pushed very hard to see that this cutting edge technology would be made available to members of the forces. He himself, a former member, a former fighter pilot in the Canadian Forces, has shown tremendous leadership during our term in office.

All of these investments and more, investments in health technology, information systems, infrastructure across the country at bases and wings, is a testament to our commitment each and every day.

Can we do more? Yes. Will we do more? Absolutely. There is no higher priority and we are committed to serving the needs of our ill and injured as quickly and with as much diligence as possible.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Chair, in the most recent budget, cuts to the number of Canadian Forces health care professionals were announced. These cuts will affect 15 of the 25 health care workers and 8 of the 18 epidemiologists who work mainly in the area of mental health, not to mention the section that does research into the mental health of deployed soldiers. Can the minister confirm those figures?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, I thank the member for her service. I know this was part of her life that she spent in uniform and I want to thank her for that.

I will confirm that our intention is to make no reductions whatsoever in front line health providers. That includes mental health services that I just spoke of which are available across the country and continue to grow in terms of our commitment to double for the number of individuals who are in the employ of the Canadian Forces.

I can indicate that we have relocated some of the services that were available in Ottawa to a base in Petawawa so they can be more accessible and closer to those military members, their families and veterans when they need it most.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like a clarification just to be sure. Those eight of the 18 epidemiologist positions will not be cut and all 18 epidemiologists will still be employed. Is that right?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, we have made no final determination on the numbers. What I have indicated is that there will be no change in terms of front line health care services and front line mental health services available to members across the country, not only in the Ottawa and Ontario region.

These decisions that we take across the board in many areas are difficult decisions. We have to prioritize and put the resources where they are needed most. What we hear from soldiers, their families and veterans is that they want to continue to see resources expand in the area of mental health and health services.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Chair, we heard that in the unit of epidemiologists and researchers, eight out of the 18 positions would be cut. These people do not provide a direct service to the troops, but they do research on the mental health of soldiers and they target areas for intervention. This research is even more important considering that the soldiers are often excluded from Statistic Canada's research.

I would like to know whether or not any of the epidemiologist positions have been cut.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, this is not in any way to denigrate the important contributions that are made by statisticians and individuals who study reports on mental health and information that is available about improvements occurring around the world when it comes to health and treatment. However, we are investing in and sustaining the support for core health services. That is our commitment, that is our intention and we will continue to make those important investments so soldiers, their families and veterans are able to access those resources when they need them.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Chair, again, I did not get a clear answer and I would like to have one concerning the fate of the epidemiologists. Will any positions be cut? If so, what does the minister intend to do? I am simply looking for a clear answer. I think there are enough people around the table to help him give a clear answer about the epidemiologists so that we can move on to something else.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, I can only repeat what I have just said. Our intention is to continue to make important investments in expanding the services and growing the number of health care professionals, including mental health professionals, in the employment of the Department of National Defence. We will continue to rely on information that is provided to us by statisticians, by those who are tasked specifically, but we have made it a priority to ensure that front line health services continue to grow. That is our commitment. That is the decision we have taken based on much feedback from members of the Canadian Forces.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Chair, I gave the minister four opportunities to give me a clear answer. I have still not received an answer, and I am very disappointed. I do not think it is too complicated to say whether or not epidemiologist positions will be cut.

I will change the subject. During a recent press conference, General Natynczyk said that he would call on volunteers to serve in remote regions instead of salaried professionals.

Does the minister think that volunteers can provide adequate services to soldiers and veterans in remote regions?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, while we always accept and encourage volunteerism, we are talking about investments that include salaried positions for mental health professionals, salaried positions for those who work for the Department of National Defence, specifically for the treatment of our ill and injured.

What I am very proud of are the specific and ongoing efforts that we have within our ranks and within the department to prevent suicide. We have programs now that include primary prevention, clinic interventions and non-clinic intervention. Mental health education remains an important investment when it comes to the importance of embracing and addressing these causes.

Other important initiatives include working closely with Veterans Affairs, working with other departments and raising awareness generally. I am proud of the personal investments that our chaplains and our mental health professionals make each and every day to help our soldiers and their families.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like to know why the minister is talking about investments in our soldiers' health. Many of them are still waiting up to four months to see a psychologist.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, it is because we need to continue to make improvements. That is why we have invested over 100 million additional dollars since taking office. That is why we continue to tailor programs that are specifically there to help individuals.

Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Are there challenges because of the vast size of the country and the location of soldiers, particularly reservists who may be living off base?

That is why we continue to expand these services and hire more mental health professionals. That is why we continue to grow that commitment to double the size of those in the employment of the Canadian Forces. The Be the Difference campaign in particular is a mental health awareness campaign that we have focused on that does just that. It allows us to communicate the importance, regardless of rank, regardless of whether that individual is suffering stress related to deployment or simply their job.

We really appreciate the opportunity to bring these issues out into the open. I appreciate the member's previous career in this regard.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to ask a few specific questions about suicide among the soldiers of the armed forces.

In 2011, 19 regular force members committed suicide. In 2010, only 12 did. The 2011 figure is the highest number of suicides committed by regular forces soldiers since 1995. The suicide rate rose 63% from 2010 to 2011. That is quite disturbing. I would like to know how the minister can explain the parliamentary secretary's comments to the effect that the suicide rate has not increased.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Chair, what I can say, sadly, is yes, in this calendar year we have seen an increase in the number of Canadian Forces members who took their own lives. That is of enormous concern to all and it should be of concern.

The reality is that the Canadian Forces suicide rates still remain lower than the Canadian average. We cannot talk about this just in statistics because it affects every family, it affects and shatters lives whenever we lose a member of the Canadian Forces, whenever we lose a Canadian.

That is why we have continued to work toward doubling the number of mental health professionals. This is why we continue to focus specifically on issues that relate to suicide. This is why there are certain regions and bases in the country that we need to make investments in, including in Valcartier, Shilo, Petawawa and Gagetown. These are bases where we are continuing to increase the number of mental health professionals.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, it seems as though the minister's answers are longer than my questions, but I will continue nonetheless.

How many health care professionals and staff of the section doing research into the mental health of deployed soldiers are currently working on suicide prevention and treatment of post-traumatic stress?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Chair, the answer is all 378 of them. All mental health issues, I believe, in one way or another, can relate to dark thoughts that individuals might have that they may share with their mental health professionals, their psychologists, their psychiatrists or their chaplain. There is heightened awareness of the importance of dealing with these issues. There is heightened awareness of improving accessibility to these services when they are needed most.

I apologize for the length of my answers. These are important issues. They are not simple issues. They are not issues that can be answered yes or no.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to know if, in recent years, some of these positions have been eliminated and if some of them are being cut at this time. I await the minister's response.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Chair, the Department of National Defence intends to continue to increase the number of people working on this issue, in this profession. It is important to increase their numbers. That is my intention and that of all national defence staff.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, if possible, I would like to ask the minister a few questions about the post living differential.

Internally, some members of the Canadian Forces clearly heard talk of major cuts to the post living differential. Some were told by their superiors to start learning to live without this allowance right away.

Can the minister confirm whether or not the post living differential is going to be abolished?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Chair, I am not sure what program she is referring to. Post-living differential is an issue that we have not made a final decision on.

I can tell her specifically what we have invested in with respect to mental health. Out of the entire health budget of the Department of National Defence, we have $38.6 million annually spent specifically on the subject matter of mental health care and preventive programs.

We continue to make those investments at primary clinics at locations and health clinics across the country. Throughout the entire career and deployment of Canadian Forces members, these important services continue to grow. We can only do that for personnel. We can only do that by enlisting the important services available, and we continue to look for those professionals.

[The Deputy Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

The hon. member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue has two minutes remaining.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, the post living differential is an allowance that people receive when they are posted to locations where the cost of living is much higher. It helps them to compensate.

As a result of the rumours that are circulating, many military spouses have written to me because they are concerned that they will lose this allowance. The loss of this allowance would greatly affect their quality of life and could compromise their family's situation.

These people want to know whether or not this allowance is going to be cut. It is very important to give them a clear answer so that they can plan their lives and so that they do not have to wait until the last minute to know whether they will be receiving this money.

I would like a response from the minister.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Chair, there have been changes made in the past that allowed those allowances to be separated from their pay. They are intended to provide a cushion against expenses that are incurred when members of the Canadian Forces and their families move as a result of a new assignment. In some cases they go to a new high cost area. Since April 1, 2011, these allowances have been disbursed as a separate payment. These changes are intended to increase understanding among Canadian Forces personnel that these allowances have a specific purpose. They are not part of their regular pay.

The cost of living is assessed annually on each major Canadian Forces base by a third party contractor. It is utilized in the calculation of the entitlement of each location. There have been changes in the way it was calculated over the years, but it is consistently reviewed to ensure fairness and equitable compensation benefits among members of the Canadian Forces to ensure they are properly compensated.

[The Deputy Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

The time has expired.

We will continue with the hon. member for Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke.