Debates of Oct. 25th, 2013

Ethics

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Wascana, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I say establish a committee and let us hear the evidence under oath.

Arthur Hamilton and Benjamin Perrin, the Prime Minister's former lawyer, are members of provincial law societies. As such, they are considered to be officers of the court with a duty to uphold the law.

As the Duffy deal and cover-up evolved since last December with hush money, threats, intimidation, deliberate interference with the Deloitte audit, and corruption of a Senate report, did these lawyers or any others warn the Prime Minister about potentially illegal activity, and did the Prime Minister ever ask?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, it is very clear that Nigel Wright, in his filings, has identified the individuals whom he brought into his confidence on this matter. What is also clear is that we on this side of the House want this motion respecting taxpayers' rights in the Senate to pass. We want it to pass immediately and we are asking the Liberal senators to stop obstructing it and pass the motion so that we can respect taxpayers' rights, get rid of these three senators, and stop paying them.

That is what Canadian people want us to do, and the Liberals should stop obstructing us.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Wascana, SK]

Mr. Speaker, Liberals will not be complicit in the Conservative cover-up.

In terms of who beyond Nigel Wright was involved in the PMO's cover-up of the Mike Duffy scandal, “no one else” has changed to “a very few”, and the circle keeps expanding.

Has the Prime Minister asked any questions of all the people who have worked for him since last December about what they knew of the Duffy payoff and what they did about it? Is it the Prime Minister's story that his most senior staff, fully knowing about the payoff, told him nothing and allowed him to mislead the country for months? How is that believable?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I will repeat that Nigel Wright, in his filings, identified the people he brought into his confidence here. This is really an issue between Senator Duffy and Nigel Wright.

Senator Duffy accepted payment for expenses that he did not incur. That was wrong. He was told to pay them back. Nigel Wright then paid those expenses back and has accepted responsibility for making that payment.

Now we have an opportunity in the Senate, and the Liberals are obstructing us. They need to get out of the way, respect taxpayers' rights, and help us get these three senators out of—

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order, please. The hon. member for Gatineau.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I honestly think, and so do Canadians, that all of them need to get out of the way.

The Prime Minister is still refusing to say why he changed his version of the facts about the February 13 meeting between Nigel Wright, Mike Duffy and himself. He still refuses to say why he misled the House about the number of people who were aware of the $90,000 cheque.

Can the Prime Minister tell us the exact number of people who were aware?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister was very clear. On February 13 when Senator Duffy approached him to try to justify these inappropriate expenses, the Prime Minister was very clear. He said, “Repay those expenses”. Senator Duffy then went on TV and issued a press release saying that he had repaid those expenses by taking out a mortgage on his home. This is what he said. Obviously, that did not happen.

What Nigel Wright did was inappropriate. He is accepting responsibility for his actions. Senator Duffy should do the exact same thing, as should Senator Brazeau and Senator Wallin. The opposition needs to get out of the way and let us do our job.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, none of this has any credibility. The Prime Minister pats himself on the back for making Mr. Duffy reimburse Canadians, except that he is the one who created the problem by appointing the Wallins, Brazeaus and Duffys of the world. So much for credibility; there is none.

The Prime Minister waited until February 2013 to act, even though Mike Duffy's scandalous expenses began to come to light in November 2012. Why do nothing for so long?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Again, Mr. Speaker, I will be very clear. I like standing on this point because the Prime Minister was very clear. When he was approached by Senator Duffy, who tried to justify these inappropriate expenses, the Prime Minister said to him, “Repay those expenses”. Senator Duffy then went on TV and said that he repaid those expenses by taking out a mortgage on his home. That was not right and when we found that out, he was removed from the Conservative caucus because, as the Prime Minister said, we expect a higher standard on this side of the House. We cannot expect our colleagues to support us when we do not live up to that standard and disrespect taxpayers' money.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister knew, in October 2012, that there was something fishy about Mike Duffy's expenses. When the scandal erupted, his chief of staff, the now-famous Nigel Wright, wrote in an email to Mike Duffy that this was just a smear campaign.

Was the Prime Minister of the same view as his chief of staff at the time?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has been of the same view: do not accept a payment for an expense was not incurred. He has said that in the House. It is a standard that we expect on this side of the House. He said to our caucus and senior staff that if there is an issue with expenses, they need to repay those expenses and if they do not make that right, they will sit outside of this caucus. That is the standard that we expect on this side of the House.

Contrast that to the Liberals, who would have been prepared to invite back disgraced Senator Mac Harb, or the leader of the opposition, who waited 17 years to tell police about a bribe he got. We expect more on this side of the House and so do Canadians.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Speaker, let us try again to clarify the doublespeak coming from the Conservatives about the Senate-PMO scandal.

The Prime Minister admits he spoke to Mike Duffy about his expenses in February. Therefore, can the minister confirm that between then and May 15 the Prime Minister asked his staff no questions about Mike Duffy, nor was he told anything by his staff about Mike Duffy? Is that really the official Conservative story?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, what is clear here is the high standard that this Prime Minister expects of Conservative members of Parliament and our senators. He has made it very clear. If members have inappropriate expenses, if they claim expenses that they did not incur, they must repay those expenses. That is the standard that Canadians expect. It is, unfortunately, apparently not the standard that the NDP or Liberals expect.

I would call on them now to work with us to make sure that the suspension vote in the Senate passes immediately. Stop this obstructing. Have the Liberal senators stop obstructing and pass this immediately.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Let us try again, Mr. Speaker.

When the Prime Minister says a few people in the PMO knew about the Nigel Wright-Mike Duffy cash for repayment scheme, is he talking about the four people listed in the RCMP production order, the 13 people reported by CTV, or some number in between?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Again, Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister addressed this in July. Nigel Wright, in his court filings, identified the people who he brought into his confidence on this matter.

This is an issue between Senator Duffy, who should repay the expenses that he did not incur, and Nigel Wright, who understands that what he did was wrong. He has accepted responsibility for that and is ready to accept the consequences of that. Unfortunately, Senators Duffy, Brazeau and Wallin have not taken the same responsibility. That is why we are bringing a motion forward in the Senate to remove them from the Senate, to have their pay stripped. Unfortunately, Liberal senators are standing in the way of that. They need to pass that immediately.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, the government claims to be co-operating with the authorities, yet it has not yet said whether it has handed over any documents or which Conservatives were involved.

Has the Prime Minister's Office handed over any documents to the police? Which Conservatives were involved? Has anyone now working in the PMO been interviewed by the police?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as the Prime Minister said from day one, we will continue to work with the authorities and provide them with any information that they require. But at the same time, the Prime Minister has been very clear. He wants the motion in the Senate to pass. The Prime Minister has been very clear, if members have an expense which they did not incur, they should repay that expense. The Prime Minister has been very clear, if they do not make that right, they will not be sitting in the Conservative caucus.

That is the standard that Canadians expect. That is the standard that they are getting from this party and the Prime Minister.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, the member talks about clarity. I would hate to see his definition of murky.

How can Conservatives ask Canadians to trust them to manage billions of tax dollars when they cannot even trust them to tell the truth? Let us just try again. Can the government confirm that Ray Novak, Carolyn Stewart Olsen and Marjory LeBreton were involved in conversations demanding Pamela Wallin step down? Was the Prime Minister aware of these conversations?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has been very clear on this. Nigel Wright in his own court filings has identified the people that he brought into his confidence. What this is, is that Senator Duffy accepted expenses that he did not incur. He needs to repay those expenses. At the same time, Nigel Wright made a payment that he should not have made. He has accepted responsibility for making that payment and is prepared to accept the consequences of that.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member seems to forget that this scandal was created by the Prime Minister who appointed these senators in the first place and by the Prime Minister's Office, which tried to cover it up.

Let us try again. Can the government confirm Pamela Wallin's assertion that the Prime Minister directed Marjory LeBreton and Ray Novak to request her resignation?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, again, we have been very clear on this matter. Nigel Wright in his filings identified the people that he brought into his confidence on this matter. This is an issue between Senator Duffy and Mr. Wright. Senator Duffy accepted expenses which he did not incur. Nigel Wright then paid those expenses. That was inappropriate. Nigel Wright has accepted sole and full responsibility for his actions and is prepared to accept the consequences of those actions.

In the meantime, we have a motion before the Senate that the opposition Liberals in the Senate need to help us pass immediately so that we can continue to respect taxpayers' money.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, if the government were being very clear, we would not need to keep asking questions. Conservatives refuse to answer questions, evade responsibility and use their power as a tool to induce others to do their bidding. Yesterday in the Senate, Marjory LeBreton said she and Ray Novak told Mike Duffy he had to leave the Conservative caucus because “this is the only option that can ensure your future livelihood”.

Does the government think it is ethical to threaten senators who do not go along with its schemes with the loss of their livelihood?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I will let the NDP and the Liberals defend these three senators. I will let them do that. The Prime Minister has been very clear on this matter: members should not accept payments for expenses that they did not incur. If they did that, they had better make it right. If they do not do that, they will be sitting outside of the Conservative caucus.

That is the standard that we expect on this side of the House. The Prime Minister has also been very clear that he wants this motion of suspension passed in the Senate. I hope that the Liberals in the Senate will get out of the way and let us pass this motion immediately.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister stated twice during a radio interview that no one in the PMO ever briefed the Prime Minister that others beyond Nigel Wright knew about the Duffy-Wright deal. The PM says he learned of the scandal on May 15 and he has repeatedly claimed he only learned of the cheque on July 5. But RCMP court files released on July 5 revealed his entire senior staff knew what was going on.

Are Canadians really supposed to believe he never asked his staff for all the facts until July 5? Is it normal for a parliamentary secretary to say his boss is incompetent?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

It is clear, Mr. Speaker, that the member perhaps has his facts wrong after all of these weeks of talking about it.

The Prime Minister said that May 15, when this came out in the media, was when he learned of the cheque. He addressed the people on the staff who may have known about this in July when Nigel Wright, in court filings, identified the people he brought into his confidence on this.

The reality is that right now in the Senate we have a vote to suspend these three senators. It is the Liberal senators who are standing in the way, obstructing this, and they are doing that because they support the status quo. They need to get out of the way, let us pass this suspension motion and get on with reforming the Senate.