Debates of Oct. 28th, 2013

Ethics

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on Friday the government leader in the Senate, Mr. Claude Carignan, admitted that he had approached Patrick Brazeau about a secret plea deal. Do the Conservatives not get it? It was a secret deal with a senator that got them into this mess.

My simple question is: Was the Prime Minister's office aware that Senator Carignan was offering this side deal with Senator Brazeau on behalf of the Conservatives, and were Senators Wallin and Duffy offered the same deal?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Again, Mr. Speaker, of course, the Senate is in charge of its own affairs. At the same time, we have been saying from the beginning that we expect these senators to accept responsibility for what they have done, to apologize to the Canadian people, to repay those expenses that they did not incur. That is the standard we would expect on this side of the House. I am surprised to learn that the NDP and the Liberals do not have the exact same standard.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I think, Mr. Speaker, the standard Canadians are expecting is that the Prime Minister apologize for what has happened.

It seems that the Conservatives are having difficulty keeping their story straight as the story changes daily about who was involved, so let us now talk about the baker's dozen. In Mike Duffy's epic speech last week, he referred to negotiations between his lawyers and a Conservative Party lawyer. Will the Prime Minister confirm that Arthur Hamilton was involved in this deal, that he was the one representing the Conservative Party?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I am surprised to hear that the hon. member believes everything he reads. If he does believe everything he reads, then he would have to believe that since his leader took control of his party, he is the least popular federal leader, that he brought his party from a high point to some of the lowest points in popularity. He would also have to believe that the leader of the Liberal Party might actually one day talk about policy. I am very surprised to learn that the hon. member believes everything he reads.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, with an answer like that, I call shenanigans.

We know that Arthur Hamilton is a regular fixer for the Conservative Party. He helped it on the robo fraud investigation, he helped it on the Helena Guergis affair, he helped it on the in-and-out scheme and now it seems he is involved in the PMO cover-up.

I will ask again. What role did Arthur Hamilton play, and will the Prime Minister confirm that Arthur Hamilton's office was used to transfer the money to Mike Duffy?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, again, I would refer the hon. member to affidavits that were filed.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we know that the RCMP affidavits have certainly painted a picture that the Prime Minister is not telling Canadians the truth on this issue, and we cannot get a straight answer; so let us try another one.

Last May, the Prime Minister said that Nigel Wright resigned and that he was sorry he was resigning and he was going to receive full severance. Now he is claiming that he fired Nigel Wright.

Well, when average Canadians get fired, they are not entitled to EI; so why are the taxpayers being stuck with the bill to pay off the severance for Nigel Wright?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said a number of times in the House, Nigel Wright has accepted accountability for what he has done. Nigel Wright, of course, no longer works in the office of the Prime Minister.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last week, the Prime Minister said exactly 29 times that he had been very clear. That is ironic, because we have 29 different versions of the Conservative scandal.

In order to clarify the most recent developments in this matter, can the Prime Minister tell us if Ray Novak instructed Claude Carignan to cut a backroom deal with Patrick Brazeau? Is that what happened?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I have to say that one would think this member would just erase the number 29 from his head. Now that he has laid it out there, it would probably be an appropriate time for me to remind him why he does not want to talk about 29, but I am not going to, because what Canadians want to talk about is an accountable Senate. That is what they want to talk about. Unfortunately, the Liberals in the Senate are standing in the way of accountability. The NDP are flip-flopping all over the place when it comes to the Senate.

Canadians know one thing. When it comes to accountable, open, honest government, it is the Conservatives who always provide that.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it seems to me that we are the only party that is clear. We want to abolish the Senate.

The Prime Minister may seem to be saying “those morons won't catch me”, but because he is changing his version of the events, they are going to do just that.

If Senator Carignan did act alone, without consulting the Prime Minister's Office, why is he still the Leader of the Government in the Senate?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, again, as we have said right from the beginning, the Senate is in charge of its own affairs. At the same time, the Prime Minister has been very clear, as has a majority of the Conservative caucus, that we expect these senators to be accountable, to apologize to the Canadian people and to repay their expenses, and we would also like the Senate to pass this motion that would see them suspended without pay. That is the standard Canadians expect, and that is the standard we are trying to give them, if the Liberals would only get out of the way and let us do that.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to remind members what happened to the last person who supposedly acted alone, the famous Nigel Wright. He resigned. No, that is not true. I think he was fired. Is that the latest version? All right.

Was Arthur Hamilton, a well-know lawyer involved in all the Conservative schemes, really asked to help the PMO with the Senate scandal, yes or no?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I know this hon. member is quite often confused, because when he took his seat in Parliament he took an oath that he would fight for a stronger united Canada. At the same time, he went back to his province and started making donations, not once, not twice, and I could go all the way up to 29 times, to a party that would break up this country. That is what one would call a big flip-flop.

While we are over here fighting for Canadian jobs, he is donating to break up the country. While we are fighting for freer trade, he is donating to break up the country. That is the type of leadership he wants to get in this House and brag about. I think not.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is nonsense.

The question was about Arthur Hamilton. Was he involved in any way? We do not know. In fact, even if he did give us an answer, we might have three different versions tomorrow. It might be best not to answer. We get that.

However, as for Carolyn Stewart Olsen, did the Prime Minister or a PMO staffer ask her to step down from the Senate committee examining the expenses?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I understand that the member has only been here for a couple of years, but the Senate does undertake its activities independently.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to say that, although some members may have only been here for a couple of years, they would do a much better job of answering questions than he does.

From September 1, 2010 to May 31, 2011, Carolyn Stewart Olsen claimed $11,123 in living expenses for the time she spent in the national capital region, yet she has a home here and this is where she spends all of her time. It is funny. This feels like déjà vu.

As in the cases of Pamela Wallin, Patrick Brazeau and Mike Duffy, does the Prime Minister think that this is an example of inappropriate spending? If so, will the Prime Minister try to expel her from the Senate?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, on February 13, the Prime Minister was very clear to the caucus, which included senators, members of Parliament and senior staff, that if they had any inappropriate expenses, they should pay them back. If they did not, they could not expect to be sitting in the Conservative caucus.

That is the high standard we expect on this side of the House. That is the high standard Canadians expect. It is only the New Democrats and the Liberals who do not expect that same high standard. They are so busy fighting for the status quo that they have forgotten that the real bosses here are the Canadian taxpayers.

[Judy Foote, Liberal, Random—Burin—St. George's, NL]

Mr. Speaker, whether Nigel Wright resigned or was fired, as the Prime Minister's latest story claims, makes a big difference under ministerial guidelines as to whether he would be eligible for separation pay.

Canadians will not accept any doublespeak or bafflegab from the Prime Minister on this. Will he finally tell the truth? Was Nigel Wright granted an exemption for a higher salary than the normal treasury board maximum? Precisely how much did he receive in severance, separation pay or any other taxpayer-funded benefits—

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order, please. The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as the Prime Minister has stated on a number of occasions, Mr. Wright will receive what is required under the law.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is trying to cover up corruption within his own office and his handling of the bogus expenses of senators who he appointed. The Prime Minister's approach in the House is a different story.

The member for Peterborough is facing very serious charges and possible prison time for electoral fraud, yet he is still sitting in the House. Why the double standard? Is it because in the Senate, the Prime Minister and his entire senior staff have their dirty little fingerprints all over this Conservative corruption?

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order, please. I am not sure if that turn of phrase is appropriate to the debate today. The hon. member has a supplemental point. I encourage him to use language that is more judicious.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Mr. Speaker, fair enough. Peter Penashue cheats on his election and his punishment is that he has to resign from cabinet and resign from the House of Commons. The member for Saint Boniface cheats on her election and what is her punishment? She gets to be—

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order, please. The hon. member for Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou.