Debates of Oct. 29th, 2013

Ethics

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the story that Mr. Duffy had reimbursed his own expenses when, in fact, he had not was the story of Mr. Duffy and Mr. Wright.

Let me repeat that. The story that Mr. Duffy had reimbursed his own expenses when, in fact, he had not was the story of Mr. Duffy and Mr. Wright. It is completely unacceptable for me and for the public to be misled in this way. That is why Mr. Wright no longer works here and that is why Mr. Duffy should not be on the public payroll, and the Senate should take action.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, what does the Prime Minister say now that he knows that this tall tale was concocted in his very office?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I say exactly what I have said since May 15; that this is completely unacceptable. For that reason, obviously, Mr. Wright is no longer working for us and Mr. Duffy should also be removed from the public payroll.

This is crystal clear. I do not know what the difficulty is in the hon. member seeing this. I imagine the fact that he sat for 17 years and knew about bribery in Quebec explains why he does not see this, but it is crystal clear.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, did the Prime Minister or someone in the PMO ask Arthur Hamilton or the Conservative Party to pay back part of Mike Duffy's expenses? The answer is clear. Only the Prime Minister knows the answer. It is either yes or no.

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Conservative Party decides whether or not to cover the expenses of MPs and senators.

It is the decision of the Conservative Party whether it chooses to fund certain expenses of members of Parliament and senators. As I have said, the Conservative fund regularly does in fact cover the legal expenses of its members of Parliament.

However, the Conservative Party was not going to cover money that was taken improperly from the Canadian taxpayer and expected Mr. Duffy to repay that money. Mr. Duffy said that he would. He did not and that is why the Senate should take action.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, but if those expenses were “clearly inappropriate” why did the Prime Minister, whose own office controlled that fund, ask the Conservative Party lawyer to pay for Mike Duffy's expenses? Why ask to help cover up something that he now claims was clearly inappropriate?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as you know well, I said it was inappropriate all along.

When Mr. Duffy first came to me when we first addressed this, and we only addressed this one time within February, I told him his expenses were inappropriate. He could not claim an expense he did not incur and he had to pay those expenses back. I was assured that Mr. Duffy would and then eventually ensured that he in fact had repaid those expenses. He himself said he had. That was clearly not true. It was also not true on Mr. Wright's part. Mr. Wright has taken responsibility and paid the price. Mr. Duffy should do exactly the same.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, in fact, it was just last week that the Prime Minister said that it was “clearly inappropriate to try and collect travel expenses when one is living at a residence he or she has had for many, many years”.

Today the Prime Minister insisted and said that anyone who did that should not be on the public payroll. That is what he just repeated, something he had said yesterday.

Carolyn Stewart Olsen charged $64,000 in expenses for a home she has lived in for decades. Why is she still on the public payroll?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, all expenses are being examined in the Senate. However, the fact that some senators have done something wrong is not a licence for the hon. member to make accusations without foundation against all kinds of people, against whom he has absolutely no evidence of anything improper.

The decision that is before the Senate now is to deal with the senators who have acted so flagrantly inappropriately, with large amounts of money, who have shown no or little regret. It is up to the Senate of Canada to remove those people from the public payroll.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's new Leader of the Government in the Senate, Claude Carignan, clearly admitted that he tried to negotiate an agreement with Senator Brazeau by offering him a less severe punishment if he apologized.

Did the Prime Minister support the action taken by the Leader of the Government in the Senate whom he just appointed?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, my position is very clear and the time for apologizing is past.

It is now time for the Senate to take action and determine the appropriate sanctions for the actions of these senators. Mr. Wright is no longer on the public payroll and the Senate should remove the three senators in question from the public payroll as well.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, if the Prime Minister does not support the tactics of Claude Carignan, why is he still the leader of his government and his caucus in the Senate?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, once again, the Senate, as we all know, is an independent body—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order, please. The right hon. Prime Minister has the floor.

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, if the Senate were not an independent body, those three senators would no longer be sitting in it, but the fact is it is.

The government's position is absolutely crystal clear. The time for making apologies over there has long passed. The senators have collected hundreds of thousands of dollars of money that they should not have collected. They did it deliberately or with little care. They have done so with no or little regret.

It is time for the Senate to act and remove them from the public payroll.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, were Pamela Wallin or Mike Duffy offered the same deal?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, once again, the time for apologies or any kind of settlement of this, in our judgment, has long passed. It is time for the Senate to remove those three senators from the public payroll.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, on February 20, Mike Duffy sent the Prime Minister's Office an email accusing Nigel Wright of extortion and bribery, no less. Exactly what did the Prime Minister's Office do once it received that email of February 20?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the government's view and my view in this matter was very clear. Mr. Duffy had collected expenses that he had not incurred. It did not matter whether he could technically argue that these were within the rules, they were clearly inappropriate. He should have repaid those expenses. That was our expectation and I think we were very clear that it was our expectation that there would be consequences if that was not done.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Natural Resources. When the minister's chief of staff, Chris Woodcock, was in the PMO, he was up to his neck in the scheme to have Nigel Wright pay $90,000 to repay Mike Duffy's expense claims. It was Woodcock who wrote Duffy's bogus media lines, used to deceive Canadians about the source of the $90,000. As late as May 15, Woodcock emailed Duffy to see if he was still sticking to the fraudulent lines that he had written for him.

Does the minister still have confidence in his chief of staff?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, you know how fond I am of a story. Let me tell the House another story about my father.

My father owned a pizza store. He worked 16 to 18 hours a day. I can tell the House what my father would not have done if he saw somebody stealing from his cash register. He would not have said “You are suspended, but make sure you come back every two weeks and collect a paycheque”. What he would have said, “You're fired, leave”, and he would have called the police.

That is the standard my father expected, that is the standard we expect on this side of the House and that is the standard that Canadians expect. It is only the Liberals who expect a different standard.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Benjamin Perrin was the Prime Minister's personal lawyer and worked in the PMO.

According to Mike Duffy, Perrin was actively involved in the scheme to offer him $90,000 to buy his silence. In fact, Perrin allegedly negotiated the agreement himself.

My question is for the Minister of Justice. Has the minister reported Mr. Perrin's potentially criminal actions to the Law Society of Upper Canada? If not, when will he do so?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, just to conclude that story, we also had a driver, Eugene. He was a Philippine immigrant and he used to deliver pizzas. Part of the agreement was that he would provide receipts for gas. Could Eugene have provided extra receipts? He could have, but he did not. He was honourable.

That is the standard we should expect from our senators. If we can expect it from a guy who delivers pizza, we certainly should be able to expect it from senators.

Only Liberals and New Democrats are trying to make victims out of these senators who stole from the Canadian people. We will stand up for taxpayers every day.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it smells not like pizza right now but like utter desperation on that side of the House.

Arthur Hamilton is well known for mopping up ethical problems for the current government. He passed on a $13,000 extra cheque to Mike Duffy. Just what was that money for? Why did the Prime Minister's entourage pay Duffy's legal fees unless there was something very serious to cover up?

The ethics code of Ontario's law society prohibits a lawyer from assisting in any dishonesty, fraud, crime or illegal conduct—