Debates of Nov. 21st, 2013

Ethics

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Speaker, that is simply not accurate. The police only confirmed that they do not yet have evidence to indict the Prime Minister; the RCMP did not say whether he was aware of the cover-up scheme.

A dozen PMO staffers, public servants at Privy Council, senior senators, and the head of the Conservative fund were all working to deal with the Duffy disaster. The RCMP confirms the Prime Minister was aware of something.

What was it?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I would refer the hon. member to page 72 of the documents that she refers to. There it says that the RCMP has no evidence that the Prime Minister knew anything about this scheme.

What is also very clear is that the Prime Minister took immediate action and ordered his office to assist the RCMP. I contrast that to the Leader of the Opposition, who for 17 years sat on something that could have saved the people of Quebec many years of misery and millions of dollars of grief. He did not think it was important then. He probably still does not think it is important.

That is not the type of leadership Canadians deserve from a government. That is why they have this Prime Minister and this government in office.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the RCMP report says that the former director of parliamentary affairs for Senator LeBreton, Christopher Montgomery, advised the Prime Minister's Office not to get involved in the auditing of the senators' expenses. Despite the warnings, the Prime Minister's posse still decided to try to tinker with the facts in the Deloitte report.

Did the Prime Minister, along with his staff, think he was entitled to interfere with the auditing of Senate expenses conducted by a so-called independent firm?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the member refers to the same report that I read, and in that report it says that the Prime Minister took immediate action and ordered his office to assist with the RCMP investigation and ordered that all emails pertaining to this matter be held for the RCMP.

That is the standard of leadership that Canadians expect. That is the standard of leadership they got from this Prime Minister. Let us contrast that to the Leader of the Opposition, who for 17 years did not think it was important to inform the police of Quebec that he had been offered a bribe. Then, when it came out in the news that this was happening, he still did not think it was important that he contact the police. He waited for them to contact him.

Real leadership is what the Prime Minister of Canada has shown day in and day out.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the information provided by the RCMP does not indicate that the Prime Minister did not know anything. The RCMP is saying that it does not yet have evidence about the Prime Minister's involvement in every detail, but it confirmed that the Prime Minister did know. This is an important point.

Nigel Wright wrote the following to the Prime Minister's Office staff, and I quote: “Senator LeBreton agrees that Chris might not be fully on board”.

Might not be fully on board with what, exactly?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, after a number of months of questioning in the House of Commons, after a number of months of investigation by the RCMP, and after having reviewed a number of emails and documents, the RCMP quite clearly says that it is not aware of any evidence that the Prime Minister was involved in the repayment or reimbursement of money to Senator Duffy or his lawyer.

That is right in black and white. They can choose to read other parts of this report, but what is clear is that the Prime Minister did not know. Had he known, he would have in no way endorsed the scheme.

That is why I am proud of the leadership that we show day in and day out. That is why Canadians keep rewarding us with a majority government.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the more they refuse to answer, the deeper they dig themselves in.

On May 14, Carl Vallée, the Prime Minister's press secretary, replied to Andrew MacDougall. According to the RCMP documents, he asked, “Would the PM know the actual answer to the question? Just in case he asks us.” To which Wright responded, “The PM knows, in broad terms only, that I personally assisted Duffy...”.

On May 21, Vallée tweeted in response to journalists that the Prime Minister had no knowledge whatsoever of Mr. Wright's payment.

Why did Carl Vallée lie to the journalists?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with the member on one thing: the less a person answers, the bigger the hole the person gets into. Look at the people of Quebec and the hole they have been in because of 17 years of silence by the Leader of the Opposition. Look at the Charbonneau commission and day in and day out what the people of Quebec have had to endure for 17 years of silence from the Leader of the Opposition.

On the opposite side, they have a Prime Minister who took immediate action and has shown leadership and who immediately ordered his office to participate and assist with the RCMP so that the RCMP could have all the information it needed on this matter.

That is real leadership, and that is why I am so proud of this Prime Minister and this government.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Conservatives do not understand that the more they refuse to answer, the guiltier they look.

Janice Payne sent an email to Benjamin Perrin about a bigger problem if they did not manage to stop the Deloitte audit. Deloitte is the firm that was to conduct a supposedly independent audit.

What “bigger problem” was she referring to? If they had nothing to hide, why ask party friends at Deloitte to halt or manipulate the audit?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the documents quite clearly outline who the subjects of the investigation are. They are Nigel Wright and Senator Duffy. At the same time, the documents show the leadership that the Prime Minister took in ordering his office to assist. They also show that the Prime Minister did not know what was happening with respect to this scheme. As he said on a number of occasions, had he known, he would have in no way endorsed such a scheme.

The member is quite right, though, that when one does not answer questions, as the Leader of the Opposition did not for 17 years, there are a lot of big problems. I think the people of Quebec understand and do not appreciate the fact that for 17 years he held back the fact that he was given a bribe. That is not real leadership.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, well, that was fun. Let us try a little fact check here.

The Prime Minister said he did not know the details, but the RCMP said he was informed of the broad brush strokes of the scheme. What, then, was he told about the negotiations between Nigel Wright, as chief of staff; Benjamin Perrin, his personal lawyer; Janice Payne, Duffy's lawyer; and senior Conservative Senators Gerstein and Tkachuk to make the payoff and derail an audit investigation?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, again, what is very clear is that it is Senator Duffy and Nigel Wright who are the subjects of this investigation.

Senator Duffy accepted expenses that he did not incur. He was not entitled to these expenses. At the same time, Nigel Wright repaid those expenses. That was wrong. Nigel Wright has admitted that and is prepared to accept the consequences.

That is another reason Senator Duffy was suspended from the Senate without pay. That is the standard we expect on this side of the House. It is unfortunate that the NDP and the Liberals do not accept the same standards.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, let us try this again. We are talking about the RCMP affidavits, not fiction here.

According to the RCMP, Senator Irving Gerstein was not only aware of the cover-up plans, he was an active participant. The RCMP says he contacted Deloitte official Michael Runia about stopping the audit into Michael Duffy's rip-off of the taxpayers. It turns out that Michael Runia has donated over $6,000 to the Conservative Party.

Do the Conservatives think this behaviour is appropriate? What is the Prime Minister going to do to hold his buddy Irving Gerstein to account?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, imagine this gentleman talking about donations when this is the party that accepted $340,000 worth of illegal union donations. Give me a break. He sits beside a member who made 29 separate donations to the Québec solidaire.

He has a leader who does not think corruption is a big deal and does not report it for 17 years. That leader is sitting beside another person who wants to gerrymander the riding boundaries, who is sitting beside another person who wants to actually break apart the country and who criticizes the brave men and women of our Canadian Armed Forces who have fought in wars.

There are a lot of people on that side who have a lot to answer for. On this side we are—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order. The hon. member for Timmins—James Bay.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, that was tough talk from a man defending bribery, fraud, and corruption in the Prime Minister's Office. Let us try to bring him back to reality.

Benjamin Perrin was the Prime Minister's personal lawyer. RCMP documents reveal that Perrin's emails have been deleted and cannot be examined. The Library and Archives Act states:

No government or ministerial record...shall be disposed of, including by being destroyed, without the written consent of the Librarian and Archivist....

I have a simple question. Did the Prime Minister's Office get that consent before it erased this evidence?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, emails and documents, upon the departure of staff, are managed according to applicable rules, including Treasury Board guidelines. Of course we expect all staff to follow those rules.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, according to an affidavit sworn by the RCMP, David van Hemmen:

...made all the arrangements for Nigel Wright by dealing directly with Mr. Wright's bank, arranging for a transfer of funds from one account to another, picking up the bank draft in Ottawa, and delivering it to the office of Janice Payne, Senator Duffy's lawyer....

In the real world he would get fired, but instead he was promoted to a senior role with the Minister of State for Finance.

I ask the minister to tell us why David van Hemmen is still being paid by the Canadian taxpayers.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the report quite clearly states that it is Senator Duffy and Nigel Wright who are under investigation.

If the standard was as he says, the entire Liberal caucus would not be in Parliament. They are surrounded by people who broke the Canada Elections Act. There are members in that caucus who were complicit and worked to try to defraud Canadians of $40 million by funnelling government advertising money to their riding associations. If the member really wants to go down that road, he might look at this own caucus and decide how many would be left of the 31 or 32 members, or whatever it is, if he has that standard.

He should get back to facts. Nigel Wright and Senator Duffy are what this is about.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister of state was asked a question about his personal staff. Why is he unable to even get up to defend his own hiring decisions?

[An hon. member]

He did not hire him; he was told to hire him.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we also know now that Chris Woodcock knew about the $90,000 cheque as of March 8 and that he then took part in covering up a crime. Even so, he was appointed chief of staff to the Minister of Natural Resources. How can the minister trust a person like that?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the report clearly outlines that it was Senator Duffy and Nigel Wright who are the subject of this investigation. Senator Duffy accepted expenses that he was not entitled to accept, and Nigel Wright repaid those expenses. That was inappropriate. He is prepared to accept the consequences. I hope that Senator Duffy will do the same.

I ask it again. The hon. member talked about working with people who have broken the rules and broken the laws. He is surrounded by people. He might want to ask them that very same question.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is unacceptable for a minister to hire such a person and then refuse to defend that decision when asked a direct question.

The Conservatives protected another staffer, Patrick Rogers. He ordered Mike Duffy to stop co-operating with Deloitte. He was trying to cover up Mr. Duffy's and Mr. Wright's crimes instead of making sure they obeyed the law. Now he is the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages' director of policy. Why did she hire someone who covered up crimes?