Debates of Nov. 22nd, 2013

Ethics

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the RCMP documents have revealed that a scheme involving more than a dozen people, including employees in the Prime Minister's Office, ended with Nigel Wright giving Mike Duffy a cheque.

Do the Conservatives expect us to believe that the Prime Minister had no idea that the amount of claims to be reimbursed went from $30,000 to $90,000?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, again, the documents quite clearly state that the Prime Minister did not know that this plan had been hatched by Nigel Wright and Senator Duffy. At the same time, Nigel Wright, in earlier affidavits, already identified the people he had brought into his confidence with respect to his using his personal resources to repay those inappropriate expenses.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, again according to the RCMP, Conservative employees were afraid that Mike Duffy would hand over his documents. Emails from Nigel Wright and Senator LeBreton indicate that they wanted to avoid having Mike Duffy release documents during the Deloitte audit.

How is it possible that the Prime Minister was never informed of objections raised by employees such as Christopher Montgomery, who was the director of parliamentary affairs in the office of the government leader in the Senate at the time?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

On the contrary, Mr. Speaker. What the documents show, on page 21, is the level of assistance the Prime Minister Office's did offer. Some thousands of emails were turned over with respect to this ongoing RCMP investigation. The Prime Minister was very clear to the PMO that it was to assist in any way possible with respect to the investigation.

I think it is very clear that the Prime Minister showed extraordinary leadership. The moment he found out about this, he ordered his office to completely assist with the RCMP. That is the type of leadership Canadians expect from a prime minister, and that is the type of leadership they get day in and day out from this Prime Minister.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Irving Gerstein knew that Mike Duffy racked up more than $32,000 in illegal expense claims because he refused to cut a cheque for $90,000. However, they would have us believe that the Prime Minister knew nothing of it. Everyone knew that Mike Duffy could embarrass the government. Senator LeBreton was afraid of what would be revealed if Mike Duffy handed over his documents.

If the Leader of the Government in the Senate was worried about potential damage, why would she not have told the Prime Minister?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said countless times in this House, the Prime Minister was approached by Senator Duffy on February 13, trying to justify his inappropriate expenses. The Prime Minister told him he had to repay those expenses back and that if he did not, he could not expect the support of this caucus going forward.

We were very concerned with the fact that some senators, including former disgraced Liberal senator Mac Harb, seemed to have defrauded Canadians of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Are we concerned about that? Yes. That is why we moved, and the Senate moved, to suspend these three senators. Unfortunately, the opposition did not support that.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the parliamentary secretary mused about what the residents of Markham want from their government. I can tell the member that they certainly do not want the Prime Minister's hand-picked, taxpayer-funded lawyer negotiating a backroom deal to hide who was actually paying Mike Duffy's expenses and then deleting all the email evidence afterwards.

Who deleted Mr. Perrin's emails? Who instructed them to do so, and what were they hiding?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, what I said was what the people of Oak Ridges—Markham want. I suspect that is why they sent me to Parliament, to fight on their behalf, with one of the largest vote counts in the entire country, second, of course, only to the member from Calgary.

I note that there are some 42,000 people in my riding who voted for me to come here to represent them. I also note that at the same time, the people of Markham were very clear when they also elected the member for Thornhill. Two out of three is not bad; one more to go.

With respect to Mr. Perrin, of course, there are Treasury Board rules that outline how emails are dealt with when an employee leaves.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, all those people from Oak Ridges—Markham did not send their member here to defend fraud, which is what he is doing today.

Negotiating an agreement with Mr. Duffy is not acceptable conduct from a member of the bar.

Has the government or the Minister of Justice contacted the Law Society of British Columbia and the Law Society of Upper Canada to ask them to investigate Mr. Perrin's professional conduct?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I thought the hon. gentleman liked me. I am hurt to hear that somehow we have had a change in our relationship. I still like him and of course will show that non-partisan spirit that I have shown in the past.

I suspect the member is just upset because yesterday on Power & Politics I said that in fact I am not Hamilton Tiger-Cats fan, I am actually a Saskatchewan Roughriders fan. As one of the members of the GTA, not supporting a GTA team, I suppose he is upset at that.

The reality is that the Saskatchewan Roughriders have great fans. They deserve to have the Grey Cup. I wish them very well and hopefully they will bring home the Grey Cup for Saskatchewan.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Wascana, SK]

Mr. Speaker, one answer in six months.

Police documents show there were conversations between Nigel Wright and the Prime Minister about the Duffy arrangement. If that arrangement did not get a “good to go” from the Prime Minister, is it then the government's position that Nigel Wright lied? Then, what about Chris Woodcock? Did he lie? Did Ben Perrin lie? Did Patrick Rogers? Arthur Hamilton? van Hemmen? Novak? Byrne? MacDougall? Hilton?

Did the entire Conservative fraud squad lie to the Prime Minister? Is that the government's position?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, again, the documents quite clearly show that the Prime Minister did not know that this scheme had been hatched. The Prime Minister has said on a number of occasions that had he known he would have in no way allowed this to happen.

What is also very clear is that as soon as the Prime Minister found out, he went back to his office and ordered the full and complete assistance of his office to the RCMP. Again I contrast that to the leader of the Liberal Party who hid the fact that one of his senators was being investigated for very serious crimes for three months.

When it comes to showing leadership on matters that matter to Canadians, they can always count on this Prime Minister. That is why the leader of the Liberal Party is in way over his head.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the people of Surrey are upset about a cover-up hatched in the Prime Minister's own office.

Yesterday we asked why Conservatives broke the law by deleting Benjamin Perrin's email about the cover-up. The parliamentary secretary replied, “we expect all staff to follow those rules”.

This is about erasing evidence. Will the Conservatives now acknowledge rules were broken when Benjamin Perrin's emails were erased?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I would refer the hon. gentleman to Treasury Board Secretariat rules with respect to how emails of employees who are departing offices are dealt with.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister keeps saying that the Prime Minister is prepared to co-operate fully with the RCMP.

If that is the case, why were Benjamin Perrin's emails deleted, as the RCMP report indicates? Is this not precisely an example of a total lack of co-operation?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, there are rules in place. Those rules are set by Parliament and enforced by the Treasury Board Secretariat with respect to how emails of departing employees are handled and managed.

Those are the rules set forth by the Treasury Board Secretariat, and I suspect those rules were all followed.

[José Nunez-Melo, NDP, Laval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, during its investigation, the RCMP was unable to obtain the emails of Benjamin Perrin, the former counsel for the Prime Minister, because they had been deleted.

Therefore, the Prime Minister's Office has not shown full co-operation and Treasury Board rules were not followed.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister confirm these two statements?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, this is actually handled by public servants. It is not handled by political staff.

There are Treasury Board Secretariat rules that are in place. They are the ones who manage the process when an employee leaves the office. Those rules were followed. Those rules are undertaken by the Treasury Board Secretariat.

I have answered that three times. He can maybe ask it again and I will answer it exactly the same way. Those are managed by Treasury Board Secretariat, and I suspect the rules were followed.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Mr. Speaker, will the parliamentary secretary tell us whether the decision to delete the emails and ignore the rules was made by Benjamin Perrin or another staffer at the Prime Minister's Office? Who deleted the emails?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said, documents upon the departure of staff are managed according to rules included in the Treasury Board guidelines.

Public Safety

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Liberal Senator Colin Kenny, a former senior adviser to Pierre Trudeau, is facing some serious accusations. My thoughts are with his former assistant who blew the whistle on his disturbing actions ranging from making special requests about what type of clothes she would wear to work, to even touching her hips when the office door was closed. Shockingly, the Liberal leader's chief of staff knew about these allegations for months before the senator left the Liberal caucus only yesterday.

Could the parliamentary secretary please tell the House what our government has done to crack down on sexual predators?

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, these allegations are incredibly serious. If the Liberal senator is found responsible, he should face the full force of the law. What is also disturbing is that the Liberals' top adviser knew of these allegations for months and did not say anything.

Our government ended house arrest for serious crimes like sexual assault and kidnapping. Unfortunately, but I suppose not surprisingly, the Liberals voted against our efforts to protect women against sexual predators.

Furthermore, the Liberal leader has even mused that he wants to end or repeal mandatory minimum sentences for anyone. Canadians want to know. Is that so his caucus can avoid spending time behind bars?

Aboriginal Affairs

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the RCMP documents have revealed the secret strategies used by the Prime Minister's Office to manipulate what happens in the Senate. Nigel Wright and his friends got angry when the Senate dared suggest that the government should make massive investments in first nations education. That is incredible. It is obvious that those guys in their ivory tower have never visited an aboriginal school.

Instead of investing in fraudster senators, when will they invest in first nations education?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, again, he first referenced the Senate affair and that of course is between Senator Duffy and Nigel Wright.

However, when it comes to investing in aboriginal communities, I think the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs has shown extraordinary leadership on this file. He is working day in and day out. The difference between our side and that side is that we do not just talk about making a difference for aboriginal communities, we work with them to make a real difference in the lives of our aboriginal communities across the country.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, people on that side tie funding to performance, and aboriginal schools are struggling with chronic underfunding. It makes no sense.

That is why the NDP launched a petition this week to defend the interests of aboriginal children and put an end to chronic underfunding of schools.

Will the minister finally step up and create the conditions that will give all children equal access to education and quality schools?