Debates of Nov. 22nd, 2013

Ethics

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as the Prime Minister responded in this House yesterday, he did no such thing. He did not approve of the Conservative Party paying back any of the funds. As we know, the Conservative Party did not pay back any of the inappropriate funds of Senator Duffy.

The Prime Minister was very clear to the senator when he tried to justify his inappropriate expenses that he repay those expenses that he did not incur.

[Nycole Turmel, NDP, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when the chair of the Conservative Party's fundraising arm, Senator Irving Gerstein, realized that the party would have to pay back $90,000 and not $32,000, what did he say to the Prime Minister?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Again, Mr. Speaker, I think Senator Gerstein made an announcement at our convention that the Conservative Party would not pay the $90,000 of inappropriate expenses that Senator Duffy had incurred.

We expect on this side of the House, and we were told, that Senator Duffy used his own resources to pay those expenses back. We obviously know that was not true. What is very evident from these documents that the opposition is referring to is that it is Nigel Wright and Senator Duffy who are being investigated by the RCMP at this point.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we are talking about a cover-up involving a large group in the office of the Prime Minister of Canada.

The Prime Minister claims that when Nigel Wright spoke to him on February 22, his chief of staff was seeking permission for Mike Duffy to pay back his expenses.

Can the member explain, then, why Mike Duffy would need permission from the Prime Minister to pay back his own expenses?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

As I just answered, Mr. Speaker, the member is referring to documents. In those documents it is quite evident that throughout Senator Duffy was trying to justify these inappropriate expenses constantly.

He was told on February 13 by the Prime Minister that he needed to repay these inappropriate expenses. He kept trying to defend these expenses. They were not appropriate. He needed to have those repaid.

We were subsequently told, all Canadians were told, that he did that using his own resources. We know that not to be true. However, we also know, as stated on page 72 of the same document that he refers to, that the Prime Minister did not know of the arrangement between Nigel Wright and Senator Duffy.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians deserve better than sham responses like that. We are talking about improper expense claims, PMO-orchestrated cover-up, whitewash of an audit and a continuing police investigation.

According to the RCMP, Senators Tkachuk and Gerstein tried to ensure the audit would go away. They knew an investigation into Mike Duffy's residence could raise additional trouble with the Conservatives.

Was the Prime Minister aware of the problems surrounding Senator Duffy's residency?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Again, Mr. Speaker, on February 13, the Prime Minister was very clear to Senator Duffy when he was approached by the senator to try to justify his inappropriate expenses. He told him he had to repay those expenses. He then went on TV and said that he had repaid those expenses using his own resources. We know that not to be true.

What these documents also show is that the Prime Minister took immediate action. When he found out about this on May 15, he ordered his office to work with and assist the RCMP, freeze any emails, provide any information that they needed. It also shows on page 72 that this Prime Minister did not know the scheme that had been hatched. Had he known, he would have in no way endorsed such a plan.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is campaigning in Manitoba today. My question is related to the fraud squad.

Manitobans want to know why the taxpayers from Manitoba are still paying for the salaries of four Conservative senators and three Conservative staffers, all of whom the RCMP have alleged were participants in the PMO–Duffy payment and cover-up.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the member mentioned this question yesterday, as well. The Prime Minister, as we know, was in Lac-Mégantic yesterday making a very important announcement with respect to funds to assist the people of Lac-Mégantic. We also know that the Prime Minister has shown extraordinary leadership with respect to the Philippines and the devastation that has been caused there.

He might call that campaigning. We call that governing. We call that looking after the priorities of Canadians. Whether it is in Newfoundland or B.C., across this country, Canadians know they can count on this Prime Minister and this government to spread their values to work on their behalf before, during, and after an election.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the member can say what he will, but everyone knows that the Prime Minister is in Manitoba today because he is scared of what is happening in Manitoba. That is the reality. He is out there campaigning.

My question is in regard to Patrick Rogers. He is the policy director for the current Conservative minister from Saint Boniface. He is being allowed to keep his job. Why? The RCMP has alleged that he also has been involved in the PMO whitewashing of the Senate report and scandal.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, what is scary is that the leader of the Liberal Party would go to an elementary school and talk about legalizing marijuana. That is what is scary. What is scary is a Liberal Party that wants to undo all of the gains that western Canadians have seen. They want to reverse marketing freedom for our farmers. They want to reinstate the gun registry. Their only major economic plank, of course, is to reorganize crime so they can tax marijuana.

I do not think the people of Manitoba want that type of person leading their government. What they want is a government that will cut taxes, work for them, work for their families, and work hard every single day before, during, and after an election for the values Canadians think are so important.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, what is scary is that absolutely no one believes this Prime Minister. What is scary is that we have a fraud squad that works out of the Prime Minister's Office or have been disseminated out of the Prime Minister's Office.

Since the Prime Minister's deputy chief of staff, Jenni Byrne, worked directly for both Dan Hilton and Senator Gerstein, both of whom the RCMP allege knew about the dirty deeds, what did she know, and why is she leading the campaign in Brandon, Manitoba?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, in fact, we have a great candidate in Brandon—Souris who is leading that effort to make sure that the people of Brandon—Souris still have a member of Parliament they can count on, a member of Parliament who is not just visiting the riding for the purposes of an election. They do not need a Toronto Liberal telling them that all the things they believe in are wrong. They do not need a Toronto Liberal telling them that legalizing marijuana is the most important thing that this government should be looking at.

What they want is a Conservative who will represent them before, during, and after an election, who will focus on their priorities, who will focus on their values, who will bring continued economic prosperity to the people of Manitoba. That is what they will get from the candidate in Brandon—Souris.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, RCMP documents show that Senator Irving Gerstein was actively helping to clean up the mess around the audit into Mike Duffy's residency and expenses. Senator Gerstein even called someone he knew at Deloitte, somebody, by the way, who just happened to be a maximum donor to the Conservative Party. Was the Prime Minister aware that Senator Gerstein attempted to use his influence to alter that audit?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, again, what the documents the gentleman is referring to clearly show is that the subjects of this investigation are Senator Duffy and Nigel Wright. Senator Duffy had inappropriate expenses that he should not have claimed, and at the same time, Nigel Wright made repayment of those expenses, and that obviously was not proper.

Of course, the documents also show that the Prime Minister did not know about this, but when he found out on May 15, he immediately went to his office and ordered that the PMO assist the RCMP, providing any and all information they needed. That is a sign of real leadership. That is the type of leadership Canadians have come to depend on from this Prime Minister.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, at some point, the government is going to have to answer questions about undue influence. The list of Conservatives involved in the Mike Duffy affair from the Prime Minister's Office, the Senate, and the party continues to grow, yet few have been reprimanded.

My question to the Prime Minister is, will there be any consequences for Senator Irving Gerstein, from him, for attempting to subvert this audit?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the subjects of the RCMP investigation are Nigel Wright and Senator Duffy. They are the ones who are being investigated for their actions.

The NDP, of course, is trying to cast a wide net over everybody. If he lives by that standard, I guess all 101 members of the NDP caucus should resign, in light of the fact that they accepted $340,000 in illegal campaign donations from their union friends.

Let us get back to the facts. The fact of the matter is that Senator Duffy accepted expenses that he never should have. Nigel Wright inappropriately repaid those expenses. That is what is being investigated. The Prime Minister's Office is assisting. Had the Prime Minister known, he would have in no way endorsed such a plan.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, that member gives farcical answers. While Conservatives have orchestrated a cover-up and whitewashed an audit, Canadians are not amused.

The Duffy Deloitte audit stopped as soon as the senator repaid his improper expenses, but RCMP documents show that this was part of a larger plan to end questions into Senator Duffy's residency. Did anyone in the Prime Minister's Office ask Mike Duffy's lawyer to withhold information about his residency from Deloitte?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, what the RCMP documents show is that as soon as the Prime Minister found out about this, he went back to his office, and as it is stated here, Rob Staley, the legal representative of the PMO, “advised my office”, that is the RCMP, “that he had clear orders from the Prime Minister to provide complete cooperation with the investigation, and to provide any assistance or documentation the RCMP requested”.

PMO employees have all provided privacy waivers through their legal counsel. The PMO has also waived solicitor-client privilege for those emails. That is the type of leadership Canadians want from a Prime Minister. That is what they are getting. At the same time, let us focus on the issue at hand. Senator Duffy made inappropriate expense claims, and Nigel Wright inappropriately paid those back.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the member does not seem to understand the seriousness of these allegations. We know something was going on within the Prime Minister's Office. We have now seen the emails.

I have another very simple question. Did the Prime Minister know about the plan hatched between Benjamin Perrin, Janice Payne, Senator Tkachuk, and Senator Duffy to pay off Mr. Duffy's improper expenses in order to prevent further investigation by Deloitte?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I just answered that question. The Prime Minister stated that he found out on May 15 that it was Nigel Wright who repaid those expenses. We had all heard earlier that Senator Duffy had used his own resources to pay back those expenses. We know that that was not true and that a different scheme was hatched.

As soon as the Prime Minister found out on May 15, as I have just said, and as stated on page 21 of the report, the Prime Minister took immediate action, showed incredible leadership, and ensured that his office assisted the RCMP to get to the bottom of this.

As we know, had he known about this plan, he would have in no way endorsed such a scheme.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the RCMP documents show that Benjamin Perrin, a PMO lawyer, was the primary legal advisor helping the Prime Minister's Office develop the agreement to repay Mike Duffy's illegal claims.

Perrin is a close friend of the Prime Minister. Why did the Prime Minister mislead the House when he said that Perrin was not involved?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, again, what the RCMP is investigating is the relationship between Senator Duffy and Nigel Wright. That is quite evident in all of the documents the member is referring to.

I would also refer the member to page 21 of the same documents, which show the leadership the Prime Minister took. I would also refer him to page 72, where it is quite clearly stated by the RCMP that the Prime Minister had no knowledge of this agreement between Senator Duffy and Nigel Wright.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the question was about Benjamin Perrin, but I did not get an answer.

Nigel Wright was fired or resigned—who even knows—because he arranged an agreement to repay Mike Duffy's illegal expenses. Irving Gerstein helped set up this agreement.

Irving Gerstein also tried to manipulate the audit report of the senators' expenses produced by the independent firm Deloitte.

Why are there consequences for Wright but not for Gerstein?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, again, the reports the member referenced quite clearly indicate that it is Nigel Wright and Senator Duffy who are the subjects of this investigation.

With respect to reports, I think all members of Parliament, on both sides of the House, are routinely given advice by different people. I know that in committee, when we are reviewing reports, political staff sit behind all of us, but ultimately, it is up to the members of Parliament, it is up to those who are elevated to the Senate, to make the decisions and to stand by the decisions they make. That happens every single day in this place, and I suspect it should happen in the Senate, as well.