Debates of April 16th, 2013

Opposition Motion--Temporary Foreign Worker Program

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Mr. Speaker, through you to my friend, I travelled with the finance committee and heard those reports, but the high-skilled jobs were supposed to be temporarily filled by foreign workers. When government turns to the folks in parts of our country like the east coast where they have seasonal work and tells them there is a labour market assessment, which permits temporary foreign workers in McDonald's or Tim Hortons, it is taking away the very jobs that the EI changes were trying to push the workers into. Therefore, the low-skilled jobs are not even there because of the mishandling of this.

In Canada there are 338,000 temporary foreign workers, more than the annual immigration rate to this country. The situation being created with that is pressure to push wages down.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my apologies if I was not directing my comments through you to the House.

Through you, to answer this question, as was mentioned, there is recognition on the government side that reform is required. That is what is outlined in the budget and was outlined in my speech in terms of the steps that need to be taken. However, as he has articulated in his question, no one can deny the fact that there are both unskilled and skilled needs in this country that are not being met by Canadian workers. Therefore, the temporary foreign worker program has a definite place in Canada and fills a need. It should not be abused, and our government is taking steps to ensure it will not be abused through the reforms we have put in the budget.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to share my time with my colleague, the member for Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel.

I would like to begin where I left off on my question to the previous speaker. The thesis of my remarks is that the proposition put forward by the government is fundamentally flawed and illogical. Let me begin by stating what its proposition is, and then I want to explain why I claim it to be flawed and illogical.

The government claims that the purpose of the temporary foreign worker program is to provide only temporary work and only where there is an extreme labour shortage. Then the government talks as if it is suddenly surprised, whoops, that there is a problem out there. We have 340,000 temporary foreign workers, and in 2006 we only had 140,000. Then the government announced reforms, as of this budget.

That makes no sense, because this surge in temporary foreign workers was in fact a deliberate creation of the government since it came into power in 2006. Since that time we have gone from 140,000 to 340,000, over an unfortunate period of seven long years of Conservative government. Over that time, it has deliberately caused that number to grow exponentially.

It is not as if the government was not warned earlier. It was taken to task by the Auditor General in 2009. What did it do? The government expressed concern and said it would review, and it said it a number of times. However, nothing has changed.

My point is that this is not a problem that the Conservatives have just discovered. This is a problem it has deliberately created since it came to office.

I repeat, this is not a new problem. This is a problem that the Conservative government has deliberately created since it came to office.

I note that even though the numbers have gone from 140,000 to 338,000, that might be explainable if we had a sudden drop in unemployment and an increase in labour shortages. However, the unemployment rate today is in fact higher than it was in 2006, and the overall vacancy rate in the economy, according to Bank of Canada figures, is approximately the same as it has been on average over the past 20 years.

The next question is this. If the Conservatives deliberately created this crisis over the last seven years, why and how? To answer that question I think we need a little historical perspective.

The temporary foreign worker program was brought in many years ago by a Liberal government and, in my opinion, if properly managed, it is a very good and very valuable program. However, the way it was managed under Liberal governments was that we had to achieve a balance between the interests of employers, the interests of Canadian workers and the interests of foreign workers. As long as that balance is maintained across these three groups, it is a very successful program. In terms of Canadian workers, those workers had to have first call for available jobs. The current government, self-evidently, has failed to achieve this.

In terms of the temporary foreign workers, they had to be treated fairly and be subject to the same laws as other Canadian workers. The government has violated that, because now, under certain circumstances, temporary foreign workers can be paid 15% less than the going wage. Third, the interests of employers have to be looked after, because in certain circumstances and in certain sectors, like agriculture for example, there are clearly labour shortages, there are clearly some jobs that cannot be filled by Canadians and there is a clear need for temporary foreign workers. As long as the system is managed in a balanced way, respecting the interests of all of those three groups, then it is a good program.

The problem with the Conservatives, and the reason the program has become a big mess since they came to power in 2006, is that they no longer had a balanced approach. They gave all the weight to the employers and none of the weight to the Canadian and foreign workers. The Conservatives just listened to employers, turned a blind eye and turned their back on stuff so that employers could get whatever they wanted.

I do not blame the employers. Employers are out there to make money, and if the government turns a blind eye and lets them covertly do what they are not really supposed to do, a lot of employers will do it. The problem is the administration of the system by the government. I do not blame employers for taking advantage of deliberate government laxness; I blame the government for creating that laxness in the first place, for deliberately building up these numbers to unprecedented levels and for totally disrespecting the rights of Canadian and foreign workers.

There are a couple of other issues I would like to mention. First, in terms of the unwarranted influx of these foreign workers, I have a high-tech riding and I have received letters from a number of my constituents who work in the tech sector. One of my constituents wrote:

These Indian/Multinational companies are proving to Immigration that skills are not available but this is not true. All the skills are available in abundance locally and it is only the work of the Immigration lawyers who cook the application to make it look like the skills are not available.

The government allows these immigration lawyers to get these phony stories in and immediately allows these foreign workers in to displace people like my Canadian constituent in Markham.

There is also the question of immigration through landed immigrants, who ultimately become citizens and raise their family in this country, versus temporary immigration through temporary foreign workers or what are sometimes called “guest workers” in certain European countries. We in the Liberal Party have a preference for the first category of immigration. We think the way to build our country is to bring people in from foreign lands, let them settle here, let them become citizens and let them raise their family. We acknowledge that temporary foreign workers have an important role, but the fact that these temporary foreign workers have gone up to 340,000, which is more than the annual intake of regular immigrants, is not good for the structure of immigration for this country. As I said earlier, that is a deliberate plan by the Conservatives to create this situation.

Lastly, it is not good for the poorest countries in the world. Consider a poor country like Bangladesh, which imports products from countries like China and India. Given that China and India will now have to pay higher tariffs, the products that Bangladesh exports to Canada will now cost more.

In other words, what the current government is doing is not only penalizing China and India, but it is also penalizing the very poorest countries of the world.

So for all of these reasons, in conclusion I will say that the Conservative government's explanation is totally illogical, that this is not a problem the Conservatives have just discovered but a problem they have deliberately created over their period in office, and they have deliberately created it because they have given zero weight to Canadian and foreign workers and all the weight to the companies.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is important to remember that many temporary foreign workers could have, in a previous era in Canadian history, become permanent residents. We have always said that temporary foreign workers who come into this country should be accorded that opportunity.

The current government has let immigrants down time and time again. In Toronto, we have taxi drivers with Ph.D.s in civics who cannot get a job because companies are not recognizing their work experience. At the same time, these same companies are bringing in temporary foreign workers. What is actually happening is that Canadian citizens' own credentials are not being recognized while we bring in temporary foreign workers.

It is also important to underline the fact that, while we have serious issues with this program, we stand for the protection of rights for all workers in Canada. Whether they are temporary foreign workers, permanent residents or citizens of this country, we would like to see them all become active and contributing members of our country, if they choose to.

My question is for the hon. member from the Liberal Party. How is it that we could have in Toronto tens of thousands of immigrants with highly skilled qualifications and they cannot find jobs that are obviously available?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there is much on which I agree with my colleague. I certainly believe that all workers, whether foreign or Canadian, should be treated with fairness. That was a point I made in my speech.

I also believe it should be far easier for temporary workers to get on a path to permanent immigrant status and citizenship. A very small fraction of these temporary foreign workers achieve that permanent status and that is because the administration of the program by the government is barring those people from permanent citizenship.

Finally, the member talked about people with credentials having problems. That has been an issue for many years. However, I would point out that the determination of rules on credentials is up to provincial governments.

[Bruce Hyer, Independent, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member raised a good point. However, I was surprised that he did not focus a bit more on what for me is the biggest issue here. Sometimes it does make sense to have a temporary foreign worker program in certain areas where there are a few shortages, but why 15% less?

In contradiction to what has been stated across the aisle, to quote the original statement from a year ago about this change in the program, it not only talked about 15% less than the market average but “substantially less than Canadians”.

How does hon. member feel about this race to the bottom internationally, to discount what is already a low minimum wage in large parts of Canada?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps I was not totally clear, but I stated in my speech that I agreed with him. I said that under the Liberal government, we had a balanced approach which protected the rights of Canadian workers, foreign workers and companies. We naturally oppose a system where temporary foreign workers can be paid 15% less than their Canadian counterparts in certain circumstances. Therefore, I agree with him on that point.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to share with colleagues and my colleague from Markham this email, which states, “I work in IT for CIBC where the displacement of full time employees by onshore foreign workers is completely out of control”. She goes on to state, “As in the RBC case, these employees have trained foreign workers to do their jobs before they were let go. Once again, these foreign workers are no better trained and do not have any more skills than the full-time employees they've displaced”.

I would be interested in the hon. member's comments on that email.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I read out a quote from one of my constituents who worked in the high tech sector that said something very similar to the member's correspondence. Therefore, I have been exposed to the same views.

The program needs to be fixed in a major way and it is the government's fault for running it in a lax way for the last seven years.

It is way too late for the Conservatives to think it is just a problem beginning now. They should have done this back in 2009, at least when the auditor general came out with her report, if not before.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak today to my party's motion, moved by my colleague, the hon. member for Cape Breton—Canso. The motion is lengthy, but very clear:

That the House recognize that the use of temporary foreign workers to replace Canadian workers in jobs Canadians are qualified and able to do is an abuse of the Temporary Foreign Worker Program, and that it is the government's responsibility to ensure that this program is not abused in a way which threatens the wellbeing of Canadian workers and the Canadian economy; that a special committee be appointed, with a mandate to conduct hearings on this critical issue, to hear from Canadians affected by this practice, and to propose solutions to strengthen the rules around the Temporary Foreign Worker Program to prevent abuse;...

It is a very simple motion. It is not too complicated and everyone should be able to get behind it. However, we see that the Conservatives are against the motion. We still do not know where the NDP stands on it, but I believe that certain MPs will vote in favour of the motion.

The rest of the motion is rather technical. It talks about the composition of the committee, which will be formed in the same manner as all other committees. It will have to report its recommendations to the House on June 19. At least we are calling for action and proposing measures in order to get answers.

It goes without saying that the topic of temporary foreign workers is a hot-button issue. Many Canadians, including my constituents, are worried about losing their jobs to temporary foreign workers who work for minimum wage.

The story of the temporary foreign workers hired by RBC—and other similar stories making headlines—to replace Canadian workers has, not surprisingly, made headlines recently. Should we be concerned about foreign workers? Should the program be reformed? Does the program work? That is what we would like to know.

This issue raises a number of questions. A number of people will want to share their point of view, which is largely based on their ideology and their personal beliefs. As parliamentarians, we have to set aside our opinions when dealing with such a complex issue. We must first acknowledge that there is a problem.

When the number of temporary foreign workers doubles in six years, increasing by almost 200,000 during an economic crisis, we have to ask ourselves some serious questions. More than 33,000 organizations have recruited temporary foreign workers over the past few years, while the unemployment rate has gone up exponentially across Canada.

A number of business leaders will say that they use temporary foreign workers to address our skills shortage. That is often the case and that is why the former Liberal government created the temporary foreign workers program. The primary purpose of the program was to complement the Canadian labour force, not to replace it. For instance, we know that the farming community must often hire temporary workers in the summer to fill positions that not many Canadians want or are able to fill. That is perfectly acceptable, since summer does not last long in Canada. That is when the program is needed.

However, when one in seven jobs created since the Conservatives came to power is filled by a temporary foreign worker, while the unemployment rate is on the rise, there is clearly a problem.

Creating a special committee made up of members of all recognized parties will make it possible to examine the issue in more detail. I think the Conservatives should have no reason to fear hearing the facts in a committee where they will have a majority anyway. Let me add that, if they are acting in good faith, they will agree with us and vote in favour of our motion.

The figures show that there is a problem. Why do we have this situation? Some people say that businesses are using temporary foreign workers to boost their profits and lower their costs. Others have raised the issue of relocating operations to other countries. Companies are bringing in foreign workers from those countries to train and prepare them here prior to relocating.

Although not actually permitted by the program, it seems that a number of businesses have found ways to get around the program requirements and to use it to hire foreign workers for lower pay. This is the accusation heard most often, as demonstrated by the RBC case. We have just heard about another example at the CIBC, and there are others. This explains the hiring of temporary foreign workers by these businesses.

Although I do not wish to comment on the RBC case, I will nevertheless ask the question: is it true that corporations are using the program to reduce costs? Can this program be circumvented to hire employees who will work for less? Are these accusations baseless? It is difficult to say whether or not these accusations are true. However, a special committee would provide the answers to these questions without falling into the trap of ideology and simplistic answers.

Some newspapers have quoted lawyers who run specialized immigration firms and who have an interest in this program being maintained. They say it is a myth that it is cheaper to hire temporary foreign workers. However, other legal experts say the opposite. Other experts say that businesses do use the program to hire cheaper labour, as confirmed by the United Steelworkers.

This program allows employers to pay temporary foreign workers 15% less than Canadian workers working in the same sector. These foreign workers are also less able to combat abuse since they are not familiar with their rights and have a hard time forming a union, for example.

My NDP colleagues are opposed to the creation of a committee and moved their own motion on the grounds that the committee will be made up mainly of Conservatives and will not achieve anything. I see that as bad faith. There is a majority of Conservatives in the House. The Conservatives can just as easily oppose the NDP motion, which completely invalidates their argument. The problem is that both the Conservatives and the New Democrats are prisoners of their ideologies, which dictate simplistic responses based on opinion instead of fact. A committee would allow us to question different experts who will provide information on the extent of the problem and will help us bring in solutions that work.

The issues of wages and hiring temporary foreign workers instead of Canadians are not our only concerns. We are also concerned that the use of temporary foreign workers will open the door for companies to relocate and that they will use the program to train foreign replacement workers before the company relocates. This also enables companies to quietly get rid of local workers—who are often unionized, organized and able to get media attention—and replace them with foreign workers we will never hear about again in the media, before the company relocates a service five years later to a country with cheaper labour.

The Conservatives like signing bilateral free trade agreements with other countries, but they must also consider the fact that these treaties make relocation an option. They must ensure that businesses will not be able to use the temporary foreign worker program to make relocation easier. This is a very complicated issue that could be examined by the special committee we are proposing today.

I urge all members to support the motion. As we have said, the Conservatives mismanaged the program, and all of the promised reviews were nothing but lip service, since no progress has been made in months or even years.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, what is really clear to Canadians is that there are major problems with this temporary foreign worker program. There are also major problems for the people who are being brought over to Canada.

I have helped small businesses that have utilized the program. People were brought in from other countries who were trained and ended up taking managerial positions. They were in fast food positions because with the mining boom they could not find local people, yet once they were trained the government deported them. Industry asked me why we are creating a disposable class of workers.

The Conservative government seems to think it is okay to have disposable people, but we need immigration in parts of our country that are growing. We want to bring in families, we want them to invest here, buy houses here, and go to school here. We do not want to treat them as though they are disposable and discard them.

At the same time this program is being used to undermine wages. It is being used so that companies do not need to invest in training. They do not need apprentices when 300,000 people can be brought in and spread around the country. This is a rip and ship attitude to our economy.

My hon. colleague has been watching the Conservatives all day. They have been acting like rubes at a country fair. They seem to be surprised that there are problems. This has been known. Why has the government done nothing to address the growing abuse of the system?

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that was a well thought out question. There were a lot of aspects in it. Obviously I did not have a chance to address all of the points that I wanted to address. That is why we are calling for a special committee.

It has been a huge surprise as to how the Conservatives have been responding. They have admitted that there is a problem but they said they have solved the problem. Maybe they will solve the problem in the future if they do not solve it today and if we have not solved it with the next budget. We do not really see anything in the budget. All they talk about is training but training is going to be implemented over the next two years. That is another temporary fix for temporary workers.

There are huge problems. Everybody who has stood up in the House has brought up a different point. Here we are still debating when we should just go straight to the vote and get the committee on board and get working as parliamentarians. Let the experts tell us what needs to be done to repair this.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to pick up on one of the themes of the earlier question asked by the NDP member and that is with respect to temporary foreign workers coming here as opposed to people coming here as permanent immigrants with permanent immigrant status. We really have moved away from family reunification and creating an immigrant who is loyal and dedicated to Canada and has an interest in staying here for a long time.

The temporary foreign worker is absolutely necessary in certain circumstances, particularly in the agricultural industry and seasonal work. I have been to the Holland Marsh. The program is used there effectively, properly, and in compliance with all the rules and regulations. I am talking about the other hundreds of thousands who have increased over the years under Conservative rule.

Would you not agree that people should be coming over here with the idea of becoming engaged Canadians with the hope of citizenship?

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Joe Comartin]

I would point out it does not matter whether I agree or not. Again I would remind all members to direct their comments to the Chair, not to individual members.

The hon. member for Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the answer to the member's question is easy. It is absolutely. This country is based on immigration. Without immigration where would we be? Every year the population goes up based on immigration. Tons of people have settled here from other countries and they want to bring their families over. Sometimes they do not necessarily have their citizenship or even their permanent residency. They may be refugee claimants. Ninety-nine times out of one hundred, these are model citizens. These people hold one, two, and three jobs whenever they can, sometimes at minimum wage. Their kids are model students. These people know if they have two strikes against them they are out. They come here to turn their life around and help Canada be the country that it is today.

Nobody here is opposed to temporary workers. I have not heard anybody say anything against them. We are opposed to the Conservatives not having a plan. They have no plans for anything. Forget about them having an economic plan. In the same way they have no plan for anything, they sure have no plan for temporary workers.

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Joe Comartin]

Order. It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Etobicoke North, The Environment; the hon. member for Laurier—Sainte-Marie, International Co-operation; the hon. member for Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, Aboriginal Affairs.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say at the beginning that I will be sharing my time with my colleague, the hon. member for Saint-Lambert.

I should also say that I fully intend to support the resolution, its emphasis on abuses of the temporary foreign worker program, and abuse that amounts to threats to the well-being of Canadian workers and the Canadian economy. I can well support the premise along the lines of what some of my colleagues have already been arguing.

Frankly, I would like to speak about another form of abuse, the abuse of temporary foreign workers themselves and how that fits into the overall scheme of the concerns in the motion. The fact of the matter is that evidence is now suggesting that the temporary foreign worker program has been and is being used in a way that is bringing in temporary foreign workers to situations that place them in very vulnerable workplace environments. It is not being used in the way that was originally envisaged. It is not being used in a way that, for example, would be bringing in highly skilled workers where perhaps the abuse potential in their workplaces might be less than in other areas.

The Alberta Federation of Labour did some research for the period of April to December 2012 on labour market opinions. Out of 4,800 labour market opinions issued in that period, 2,400, fully half, 50% were for low skilled jobs. The extra abuse potential, with the problem of how the temporary foreign worker system is now working, is I hope obvious with that statistic.

The mere fact that the Royal Bank of Canada tried what it tried, and was given permission by the government to do what it tried, shows how the system can be used to gut existing jobs. Why would that be? That would be because existing jobs probably are staffed by people whose benefits and workplace conditions are somehow or other getting in the way of the corporate project. There is no other reason to think that RBC would be getting rid of 35 people, who already had the same jobs that they were going to be hired for, if it did not think it would get some benefits at the level of workplace conditions, salaries, etc.

I want to focus on proper compliance and enforcement issues, including the importance of working with the provinces to ensure that temporary foreign workers are not subjected to abuse in the workplace and also more broadly. On that point I will speak about the issue of deportation as well.

I am very privileged to be able to report that at the recent NDP convention this past weekend in Montreal, youth members of the Toronto—Danforth Riding Association proposed to the New Democratic Party to add a clause to the policy book on precisely the kind of issue that is raised by the motion today.

It was tabled, debated on the floor, and passed. It was introduced by a youth member of the NDP. It said, “Be it resolved that the following clause be added” to the NDP policy book to already eight clauses on temporary foreign workers. It read, “working with foreign embassies of sending countries to ensure temporary foreign workers coming to Canada are informed of their rights”, a concrete measure. Then, “working with the provinces to institute a licensing system for foreign recruiters (as is done in Manitoba)”. And “a registration system for employers of temporary foreign workers”. Finally it said, “providing access to federal hearings for temporary foreign workers who face deportation”.

This is now NDP policy, having been virtually unanimously, if not unanimously, voted by over 2,000 delegates at the NDP convention on Sunday.

Allow me with the same pride, as the MP for Toronto—Danforth and for the NDP youth, to refer to the introductory remarks made by Andre Fast on behalf of the riding association when introducing the motion. He wanted the 2,000 or so delegates to consider the following considerations. He told them that “many temporary foreign workers coming to Canada simply face exploitation of various forms. They are sometimes cheated by unscrupulous recruiters who make big promises they then do not deliver on. When the migrant workers get here, they are often, not always—there are many good employers, of course—they often face inadequate housing, inadequate training, and poor wages.”

He said, “Some migrant workers are often exposed to some of the most dangerous working conditions in Canada.” Frankly, the way this system works, in some cases that may be the reason they are being brought in. If they are injured on the job or if they complain about working conditions, it often results in their deportation. This suggests to me that quite often that very fact is the reason many temporary foreign workers refrain from complaining about their job conditions.

He said, “United Food and Commercial Workers, UFCW, has been doing tremendous work over the years to help these workers and our economy, but the government itself needs to do more to protect them.” Putting measures in place to ensure recruiters and employers of temporary workers can be held accountable will help protect them, such as the measures suggested and that are now part of the NDP policy. No worker should be injured on the job and then, as my colleague for Timmins—James Bay remarked, simply disposed of. This is why we also need “federal hearings for temporary foreign workers who face deportation”.

As New Democrats, we stood up on Sunday for the most vulnerable members of our society in adopting this resolution, and I have to say that I am very proud of the NDP youth who put forward this resolution at the convention. They seemed to understand the nature of this particular challenge far better than the Conservative government, which has been promising a review for some time. Not only have the Conservatives failed to keep that promise, they also are now continuing the abusive system that we have seen come to light in the last few weeks.

Manitoba has been governed for four successive terms by an NDP government. In April 2009, it introduced a system that is being used as the model in the motion just passed at the NDP convention. Manitoba's Worker Recruitment and Protection Act now has provisions and regulations that do a number of very important things which are needed across the country. This is why we need to have collaboration with the federal government in the nature of this temporary foreign worker program.

The first thing is that foreign worker recruitment agencies have to be registered and licensed by the province in order to do that recruitment. Second, they are prohibited from charging fees for the recruitment to the foreign workers themselves. Third, employers must register with the province, and that is not just the recruiters but the employers. Once they are registered, they can then work with the province to receive direct assistance benefiting from the province's network of international partnerships to source appropriate foreign workers in the right context. Finally, employers and recruitment agencies have to have detailed records about the place of employment, workers' duties, wages, and up-to-date contact information.

At the time that this was adopted, the president of the United Food and Commercial Workers, Wayne Hanley, said the following:

By keeping a registry of where these workers are, who recruited them and what they were promised when they were hired, you finally have a jurisdiction with the political will and regulations to penalize and weed out employers and recruiters who abuse foreign workers.

What is going on in Manitoba is a model of collaboration and co-operation between government, labour, and business, and we very much believe that the government side of this must be expanded. We need federal co-operation with the provinces to make sure this kind of scheme is rolled out across the country and for the kinds of contacts with foreign governments and embassies to make sure that workers come knowing that they do have rights and the ways in which they can go about seeking to enforce them.

Finally, I would like to end by saying that what we are seeing in the last few weeks coming to light again, and it was not as if it was not known more generally, is part of a bigger picture. This is not just about temporary foreign workers or that particular slice of our economy, but also about the organization of the entire economy and a particular ideology and set of attitudes that lie behind the way the Conservative government thinks about economics.

We are looking at a kind of “migrantization” of the economy. If we look at the unemployment insurance system and all of the recent so-called reforms, they are basically intended to create a more atomized society of workers who are forced to move further and further afield to find jobs of at least the same wage that they had before. They have to actually leave their region or go within an hour of where they used to work to receive any benefits. The way in which workers are being forced to think of themselves as completely mobile units to move around the country—be damned, so to speak, with respect to the effects on community and family—is part of the same picture.

I believe this motion deserves support. Its references to the abuse of the system and of Canadian workers are well-founded, but the abuse of temporary foreign workers themselves has to be built into our understanding of why we are voting for the motion.

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, would the member not agree that labour mobility in a well-functioning labour market is a fundamental principle of a market economy? He claimed at the NDP convention that there were some breakthroughs on the policy front. Does the NDP now agree that a functioning labour market has to involve labour flexibility and labour mobility over the long-term, especially in an advanced economy such as Canada's?

Second, the member has spoken a lot about abuse. On this side of the House, we are determined to root out abuse and flouting of the regulations wherever we find it. However, would he not agree that the vast majority of Canadian employers that depend on temporary foreign workers in agriculture and other sectors have done a very good job of respecting the rules of that system? This is true of all those employers in my riding.

We have a firm and excellent foundation in the country to build on the success of the program for future generations.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, frankly, I am afraid I cannot answer the second question well, because I do not know what situations the hon. member is aware of. As a general premise, the fact that most employers are good employers and try to be good employers is probably a good place to start.

The fact is that we do not really know the way the system is being organized. The potential for abuse by employers to do what they might not otherwise do is there to a much greater extent than it should be. My colleague from Markham—Unionville just made a very similar point.

I would like to think that what the member has said is true and that it is by far the norm that there is no abuse. However, we very much need to double-check that in light of what we now know about the ways in which the system can be abused.

On labour mobility, and who can be against labour mobility, the fundamental component has to be worker choice and not coercion. The whole system is being built far too much around a lack of choice built in to the mobility policy.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with many of the comments of the member for Toronto—Danforth. However, I would like to clarify his position and the position of the NDP with respect to the use of temporary foreign workers for agricultural purposes, particularly temporary foreign workers who come in the summer to help our agricultural industry which trains these temporary foreign workers and which brings them back year after year? Often, the same temporary foreign worker will come in to do jobs that frankly Canadians will not do.

I would like to clarify the member's position on that matter.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I can only speak for myself. I am not aware of any particular NDP policy on the agricultural workers. I am completely in favour of that where there is a need. I am completely in favour of workers being treated humanely and virtually, as the form of the member's question might suggest, as members of the family on many of these farms. That is not at all where the problem lies.

I would add, though, that I very much believe these workers should have the right to be unionized and to bargain collectively. I am very disappointed that the Supreme Court of Canada upheld the Ontario government's refusal to do so in a recent case last year. I would very much be in favour of these agricultural workers and what jobs and Canada can do for them and their families, but they should be here with a full set of rights.

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Joe Comartin]

The hon. member for Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher for a short question.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the member opposite's comment about how there is not a problem with this program gives a false sense of security. Has the hon. member, who lives in the Toronto area, not seen this classified ad on Kijiji? I just saw this ad, which reads as follows:

“We hire foreign workers to work in Alberta and Saskatchewan”.

The ad was posted by a staffing agency that says that it can find jobs for people.

Our company Wellcareplacents is hiring individuals who have work experience in fastfood counter attendant, to work in Mc donald, Boston Pizza, Dairy Queen, Tim Hortons, Subways and more.

Is this specific? This is totally an abuse of the system. Am I right here?

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would only say that the member's question was framed in such a way that basically does not need to be answered. It speaks for itself.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for Cape Breton—Canso for his motion, which gives us the opportunity to speak to the issue of foreign workers and give it the attention it deserves.

It is a good sign that the Liberals are finally reacting and acknowledging that the temporary foreign worker program does not work and needs to undergo changes.

Over the past few weeks, a number of irregularities and controversies have been brought to our attention and have made headlines.

The one thing they all have in common is the fact that large companies are using the generous nature of the temporary foreign worker program to their short-term financial gain and to the detriment of Canadian workers.

Royal Bank is the first company that comes to mind. It found itself in the spotlight after laying off 45 permanent Canadian IT workers and replacing them with temporary foreign workers.

This is not a question of lack of workers. The positions were already filled. There was no reason to hire temporary foreign workers.

However, it seems that RBC was able to benefit from loopholes in the temporary foreign worker program to threaten its employees' job security and drive down their salaries.

The case of HD Mining also demonstrates the program's inadequacies. In 2012, the Conservative government allowed the company to hire 201 Chinese miners on the grounds that the company could not meet its labour needs.

However, more than 300 people had applied for jobs with the company. They were turned down because HD Mining decided that speaking Mandarin was an essential qualification. Obviously, it was a way for the company to cut salary costs and take job security away from workers.

Just like RBC, HD Mining benefited from the generous nature of the temporary foreign worker program, to the detriment of Canadian workers. Just like RBC, it also circumvented the intent of the federal temporary foreign worker program with complete impunity. Foreign workers should not be shouldering the blame for these irregularities; the Conservatives should. They are the ones who encouraged it with their laissez-faire attitude and poor program management.

Our current economic situation is still fragile. While hundreds of thousands of Canadians are currently looking for work, the federal temporary foreign worker program must address labour shortages and not allow foreign workers to be hired to the detriment of Canadian workers.

That is the spirit of this program. It is supposed to address a temporary business need that cannot be fulfilled by the Canadian workforce. It is not meant to allow employers to reduce their payroll costs because they can pay foreign workers 15% less than Canadian workers.

Today the Conservatives are saying that Canadian workers should be given preferential treatment, while the number of temporary foreign workers has tripled, rising from 101,000 to 338,000 in the past 10 years. That number rose from 100,000 to 160,000 under the Liberals, and then it doubled under the Conservatives.

Considering that we have gone through an economic crisis and that 1.4 million Canadians are unemployed, these actions are irresponsible.

Saying one thing and doing the opposite for years on end is clearly hypocrisy. This government brought in incentives for hiring temporary foreign workers. It deliberately left the program's weaknesses in place and it allows large corporations to take advantage of the system, at the expense of Canadian workers.

The direction the Conservatives are taking is having a direct impact on Canadians. It is creating employment uncertainty in this country, as well as pushing down wages and creating a race to the bottom for all workers.

In the end, all employees and unemployed workers will be affected by these practices.

Our current global reality raises many questions about the federal temporary foreign worker program and about the government's intentions.

We have to reflect carefully on what direction this program needs to take.

Clearly, this reflection must be carried out with a view to developing a more effective federal temporary foreign worker program that better meets the needs of the public instead of those of large corporations.

The solution proposed by the hon. member for Cape Breton—Canso would make it possible to consult the public and to have the opinions of stakeholders and analysts. It could make it possible to take the temporary foreign worker program in a better direction, but this Liberal motion may well not yield very convincing results, because we need tangible measures.

It is essential that we find ways to make the program more true to its spirit. We must examine the ideas to improve the effectiveness of processes as well as those to strengthen respect for temporary foreign workers' rights. Actually, that is what we did at our last convention by adopting a resolution promoting co-operation with the embassies of the countries covered in the temporary foreign worker program, in order to improve the transfer of information to temporary foreign workers.

We also proposed the creation of a registration system for employers hiring temporary foreign workers in order to improve the verification of information. In addition, a long time ago, we voted in favour of repealing the provision allowing companies to pay temporary foreign workers 15% less than Canadian workers. We are also in favour of tightening the rules around the temporary foreign worker program to ensure that its precepts will not be violated.

But the proposal of the hon. member for Cape Breton—Canso can only be valid if the Conservatives finally agree to honour their commitments to the program, commitments that they have broken for years. The Liberals would also need to take a clear position and stop the double-talk, just like the government representatives.

Our duty is to promote our country's economy by serving the interests of all Canadians, but the Conservatives and Liberals need to demonstrate a real will to do so—the will New Democrats have.