House of Commons Hansard #243 of the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was amendments.

Topics

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

NDP

Christine Moore NDP Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, the context must be taken into account.

If we are talking about a summary trial in which a guilty verdict could lead to a criminal record, it is important to respect the rule of law and give people the right to appeal. However, if we are talking about the summary trial process that was expanded considerably and will not lead to a criminal record, that is altogether different.

Indeed, these summary trials were designed specifically so that people can be tried quickly, so that military forces can go on to the next thing and quickly return to operational status. Since there is no potential impact on the soldier's life when he leaves the military and the impact is limited to the military aspect, that is understandable.

For instance, if someone works as a nurse and does something wrong, their employer could put a note on their record. There is no transcription of what happened and there are no lawyers involved. The note would simply stay on the employee's civilian work record, so to speak.

The nuances of these rules of law need to be established based on potential consequences. This is particularly problematic when the defendant could end up with a criminal record, does not have access to a lawyer and has no right to appeal and when there is no transcription.

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

NDP

Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet NDP Hochelaga, QC

Mr. Speaker, I have no military experience, but since my colleague has a lot of experience, I would like to ask her a question.

I see that, in summary trials, the judge is the accused person's commanding officer. Could that not lead to a conflict of interest? Has she seen that type of situation before?

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

NDP

Christine Moore NDP Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, in some cases, that can in fact result in conflict of interest.

Reserve regiments routinely have three or four members from the same family. For instance, in Sherbrooke, a sister and her two brothers were all in the same regiment.

At some point, one of them could be a commanding officer and might have to sit in judgment. Usually, in a situation that is so clearly a conflict of interest, the commanding officer must transfer his authority to his deputy commander.

There may well be conflicts of interest, but it is up to the commanding officer to show maturity, to recognize the conflict, and to delegate authority to the deputy commander, as he is in a position to do so.

Of course, if a criminal record is on the line, it is particularly problematic. If there is no possibility of a criminal record and since the commanding officer can delegate authority to the deputy commander, it is possible to handle the situation within the military system in a way that our military can find satisfactory.

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for her well-informed speech on the bill.

However, the third party kept raising a question to a number of her colleagues about provisions of the Criminal Code. Of course, I am sure she is quite aware that the bill would introduce a new provision, proposed section 249.27. The thing that is remarkable about this new provision, which the NDP proposed, is that it would have a retroactive effect in that there would be benefits for those who had been previously convicted, as some offences would no longer be a criminal offences.

I wonder if the member could speak to the fact that some of the recommended changes go as far back as the recommendations made in 2003 by Chief Justice Antonio Lamer, yet previous Liberal governments did not see fit to bring forward any of those recommendations and act on them.

Is it not important that by supporting these amendments today, we are trying to finally force the expediting of amendments so that we can move forward with additional ones sooner?

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Christine Moore NDP Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, I was not an MP in 2003, but I know enough about politics to remember that the Liberal government still had a majority.

I find it hard to understand why the Liberals did not try to improve the military justice system. Some recommendations were made a long time ago. I find it hard to understand why they chose not to propose changes at that time. I also find it difficult to understand why the Liberal Party did not propose a single amendment while the bill was being studied in committee and why, during certain votes, no Liberal Party members voted. I have a hard time understanding all of that.

To me, military justice is an essential issue. They should have at least tried to take some sort of action, but they did not. The Liberals have not introduced a bill either, but it likely would not have had time to get through all the stages in the House before this Parliament is dissolved.

They did not make an effort in 2004 or in 2006. It is beyond comprehension.

I was not here at that time. I find it hard to understand, but the fact that Canada was actively involved in Afghanistan makes me think that it would have been a good time to pose this important question.

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

Ajax—Pickering Ontario

Conservative

Chris Alexander ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue, who has worked so hard on this bill. However, I have a simple question.

Now that there have been 120 speeches in the House, dozens of speeches in committee, eight days of debate in committee and 12 days in the House and two important stages of debate in the House and now that our Canadian Armed Forces have waited 10 years, is it not time to sit and vote to ensure that this bill moves on to the other place and becomes law?

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Christine Moore NDP Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am sure that if the Minister of National Defence had introduced Bill C-15 with the amendments from Bill C-41, we could have perhaps avoided a few hours of debate. However, I do think it is important for this bill to pass. That is why we have decided to support it. We will see what happens, but I think that we should be prepared to vote quickly so it can pass.

I hope that the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence understands there are still some flaws and I hope that he will continue to work on the issue of military justice along with the Minister of National Defence, so they can introduce other bills in order to enhance and improve the military justice system.

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

Resuming debate.

Is the House ready for the question?

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Question.

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

All those opposed will please say nay.

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Call in the members.

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Gordon O'Connor Conservative Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON

Mr. Speaker, I ask that you move the vote to tomorrow following government orders.

Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada ActGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

Accordingly, the division on the motion stands deferred until tomorrow, following government orders.

Do we have agreement that we see the clock at 5:30?

Seeing no opposition, it being 5:30, the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper.

Criminal CodePrivate Members' Business

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Parm Gill Conservative Brampton—Springdale, ON

moved that Bill C-394, an act to amend the Criminal Code and the National Defence Act (criminal organization recruitment), be read the third time and passed.

Mr. Speaker, I am thrilled to have this opportunity at third reading to share with the House the important measures introduced in Bill C-394, an act to amend the Criminal Code and the National Defence Act (criminal organization recruitment).

The focal point of my bill, Bill C-394, is to protect Canadians, especially, our youth, by making the act of criminal organization recruitment, in other words, gang recruitment, a criminal offence under Canadian law.

All of us can agree that our youth are our future. This is a statement that holds no partisan or political undertone. Each one of us in this House, and every Canadian, would agree that today's youth will one day define the course of this country, and that course will be determined by the types of opportunities our youth are provided.

Young Canadians today have a sense of vulnerability about them. There are challenges that all youth face. My three young children constantly remind me of how important it is as a parent to provide for their safety and to protect them from any real or potential danger.

Every single parent in the world wants the best for his or her children. All parents want to provide their children with every opportunity to succeed. To do this, we must strive to create a safe environment in which our children are free to grow and explore their potential. Unfortunately, not every young person gets to experience the life that he or she deserves. Sometimes the pressures to fit in or to join a certain group are just too overwhelming, leaving youth helpless to those who might exploit their desire to belong.

In a 2008 publication, the RCMP found that street gangs in Canada are increasingly aggressive with their recruitment tactics. In a disturbing trend, these criminal organizations are targeting our youth under the age of 12 and as young as eight.

These ruthless gangs pursue our youth for several reasons. They know that those falling within this range cannot be formally charged with a criminal offence. They also know that our youth can be easily pressured to participate in a variety of criminal activities. Innocent Canadians are being manipulated and, at times, forced to embark on a life that no Canadian should ever experience. Gangs exploit our children by forcing them to participate in criminal activities, such as drug dealing, robbery, theft and prostitution.

When I had the opportunity to speak with current and ex-gang members who led recruitment initiatives in Regina, Saskatchewan, they told me of a world that knew no boundaries. For instance, gang members will use drug addiction to manipulate potential recruits to take part in criminal activities that support these gangs. This means that children who should have been playing soccer in a schoolyard are carrying weapons, drugs and money for gangs. In the eyes of the gangs, these youth are dispensable and easily controlled. It is worrisome and heartbreaking that Canada's most wanted criminal organizations actively recruit our youth and teenagers.

How can we, as a nation, sit by and watch while this happens?

I remember vividly what the director of the Regina Anti-Gang Services told me, as we sat side by side in a small room among hardened gang members seeking to exit that lifestyle. She told me that once recruited, these innocent children and teenagers were lost to the streets of the city forever. Promising young lives would vanish into the criminal culture forever.

What makes this lifestyle so deadly is that leaving a gang is next to impossible. As I mentioned earlier, I had the chance to speak with several former and current gang members. I sat beside a young man, a mere 19 years old, who had been a gang member for more than seven years. When I looked at him, I saw a kid.

However, as we got deeper into a discussion about his past, there was nothing in his life that resembled that of a youth.

He was recruited into a gang at a very young age. Instead of school, friends, family and sports, he was robbing drug dealers, attacking rival gang members and selling drugs on the street. This was a kid who excelled in a criminal organization because that was the only life he knew. I cannot help but picture his work ethic, allowing him to lead an extraordinarily successful law-abiding life. Now he is battling a drug addiction and because he is seeking to exit the gang, he constantly looks over his shoulder fearing for his life. He told me that no matter what he did, he was never really out of the gang. People that he recruited into the gang have experienced the same pain as him. He looked me in the eyes and asked “By recruiting others into the gang, how many lives did I ruin? How many families did I hurt? How many people have experienced pain at my hands?”

As a member of Parliament, I know there is more we can do.

In 2006, CSIS estimated the number of street gang members under the age of 30 was approximately 11,000. The report cautioned that this number would continue to grow rapidly over the coming years.

In the region of Peel, which my family and I call home, the number of gangs has exploded in the past few years. In 2003, there were just 39. Today there are well over 110 street gangs within our neighbourhoods. This means more people live in fear, more young people are targeted and more violence is used.

Gang members in Canada have a blatant disregard for the safety and well-being of those around them. For instance, in some communities families are afraid to leave their homes or let their children out to play. Gangs also pose a significant risk for law enforcement officers.

The increase in gang recruitment has far-reaching and systemic effects on our country as a whole. Our safety, security and well-being are placed in jeopardy.

The purpose of Bill C-394 is two-fold.

First and foremost, we are seeking to further protect our youth and our communities by criminalizing the act of gang recruitment. Far too many communities in Canada are facing a gang problem. It is vitally important that we maintain the security and safety of our neighbourhoods, our streets and our families. By tackling gang recruitment, we can help reduce the number of innocent and vulnerable citizens who would otherwise be lost in this dead-end lifestyle forever. This is about protecting our children, our neighbourhoods and our future. Criminal organizations use fear, intimidation and violence to advance their objectives and grow within our communities. This behaviour cannot be tolerated any longer.

Second, Bill C-394 is designed to provide law enforcement officers with additional tools to address gang recruitment.

I had the opportunity to meet with numerous stakeholders across our great nation in order to discuss this issue. The valuable insights I gained were used in the development of this legislation. We spoke with numerous stakeholders and law enforcement agencies across the country, which praised the bill's direction, scope, focus and resourcefulness.

This legislation was recently studied by the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. During its study, the committee heard witness testimony from a Winnipeg police officer who had spent over six and a half years working in his department's anti-gang unit. In his statement to the committee, this officer testified that gang recruitment was targeting younger and younger Canadian youth. He explained that in his city of Winnipeg, 10-year-olds were being actively recruited into gangs.

Fifteen-year-olds are on charge for murder who were driven to kill by older gang members who knew they would face much lesser penalties. He went on to testify that:

—tackling recruitment and making it illegal is very important, because often when these people are recruited at a young age, they don't understand the life they're getting into. They see it as having rock-star status in the media. Popular culture makes it look like it's something to do. It's not until they're in it and they've been in it for two, three, or four years at age 15 that they realize the road they're going down. There aren't riches, there isn't fame and fortune, and they cannot leave the gang.

Further to this witness testimony, the committee also heard from the minister of justice for Manitoba, the Hon. Andrew Swan. Also supportive of the bill, the minister stated:

This bill would provide guaranteed consequences, which...are needed in order to take on those who would recruit young people into gangs. It also increases the range of penalties that could be imposed by a court if somebody were found guilty of this provision.

We have a front line police officer and a justice official who both support the bill and believe it would benefit police and justice officials in helping to stop the recruitment of young individuals into gangs.

Youth gang membership has grown, and will continue to grow, in our country if we sit back and do nothing. Bill C-394 would allow our justice system to appropriately hold those who recruited individuals into criminal organizations accountable for their devastating actions. By doing so, we would be able to help take these dangerous criminals off our streets.

This not only maintains the safety and security of our communities, but it offers the opportunity to severely inhibit a criminal organization's growth.

When I spoke with the president and CEO of the Boys and Girls Club of Winnipeg, he told me a story that exemplified the need for this proposed legislation.

At one of its inner city club chapters, gang members will wait under the parking garage directly behind the building. Their sole purpose for being there is to engage those leaving the Boys and Girls Club in hopes of recruiting them into their gang, a targeted strategy that is not a coincidence. This example highlights the reality that our youth in the community currently face.

Education and prevention programs are important, but they are only a part of our response to this going problem. We need to provide our front line police officers and justice officials with the ability to respond through legal action.

Imagine for a moment if these children, youth and teenagers were empowered to report those trying to recruit them into gangs. Imagine if our community members knew that something could be done about gang recruiters who operated in their neighbourhood. It would empower communities to take action and fight back.

In conclusion, we have an opportunity, not just as members of Parliament but as Canadians, to come together and make a difference, which will protect our youth and our neighbourhoods.

I urge each and every one of my colleagues in the House to view the bill for what it is: an important new tool in our criminal justice system that would benefit families, communities and future generations.

It is time we take back our streets from criminal organizations that are increasingly tightening their grip on our freedoms, safety and security. It is time we take a stand so every child, teenager and adult can experience the life they deserve to live.

Criminal CodePrivate Members' Business

5:40 p.m.

NDP

Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Brampton—Springdale.

At the very moment when his government claims to be effectively combating crime—gang recruitment, in this case— how does he explain the termination of the police officers recruitment fund in 2013, which will lead to a dramatic drop in the number of frontline police officers in our municipalities?

Criminal CodePrivate Members' Business

5:40 p.m.

Conservative

Parm Gill Conservative Brampton—Springdale, ON

Mr. Speaker, our government has a strong record. It has actually invested more money in protecting Canadians and in our justice system than any previous government in history.

This is a very important issue. Our government has introduced a number of initiatives to protect Canadians and to make our streets safer. Bill C-394 is another tool in the toolbox to help our justice officials and our front-line police officers protect Canadians, especially our youth, the young generation, who are the future of our country.

Criminal CodePrivate Members' Business

5:40 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Mr. Speaker, the biggest single problem the Liberal Party has with the bill is the introduction of yet another mandatory minimum sentence. The introduction of mandatory minimum sentences through private members' bills, of course, avoids the necessity of having a review done by Department of Justice officials with respect to their constitutionality.

We know that mandatory minimums have been struck down as unconstitutional in this country. My question for the member is the same one I posed to him at committee: What measures has he taken to ensure that the bill will be constitutional, in view of the decisions that have already been made with respect to the constitutionality of mandatory minimum sentences?

Criminal CodePrivate Members' Business

5:40 p.m.

Conservative

Parm Gill Conservative Brampton—Springdale, ON

Mr. Speaker, I understand that the member is also a member of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. The committee even heard from the Minister of Justice from Manitoba, the hon. Andrew Swan, who is clearly very supportive of the bill.

It is very unfortunate when it comes to the Liberals and the Liberal Party. Whenever they have an opportunity to stand up for victims and to protect Canadian citizens, they always take the side of criminals. They never have voted, as far as I can recall, for the protection of victims and their rights. It is very unfortunate to see this once again.

Criminal CodePrivate Members' Business

5:45 p.m.

Simcoe—Grey Ontario

Conservative

Kellie Leitch ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development and to the Minister of Labour

Mr. Speaker, I want to commend the member on putting forward his private member's bill. This is something I know he is very passionate about. He has done a significant amount of consultation across the country.

One thing I would like to ask him is how this would specifically impact young Canadians across the country. How would this impact youth, not just in his local area but across the country? What kind of meaningful change would this have for young people?

Criminal CodePrivate Members' Business

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Parm Gill Conservative Brampton—Springdale, ON

Mr. Speaker, when I was putting together the bill, I had an opportunity to travel right across the country and discuss it with a number of different stakeholders and communities, including youth. I came across far too many incidents like the one I shared in my remarks about gang members in Winnipeg targeting younger and younger people with some of their tactics. This is very heartbreaking, the destroying of our future, because especially at a young age, as young as eight years of age, these young people have no idea what they are getting into. They are being enticed. Their lives are being ruined. These criminal gangs are terrorizing our communities and our streets. Bill C-394 would help protect us.