Debates of May 21st, 2013

Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Questions and comments. The hon. member for Richmond—Arthabaska.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the member just spoke about the lack of co-operation between the federal government and provincial governments, especially the Government of Quebec, and the famous 30-second $95,000 ads about a job training program that does not even exist, which are being run during the current playoffs.

There is a disconnect between reality and the government's line that it is willing to work with the provinces and Quebec in order to put programs in place. We have come to the conclusion that the federal government is interfering once again in Quebec's areas of jurisdiction, because labour training is the responsibility of Quebec and the provinces.

How is it logical for the government to claim that it is putting in place a program even though Quebec does not want it? Quebec wants support and it wants the funding that goes with the program, which is paid for by our taxes, but it does not want the federal government to impose conditions on job training, which is a provincial area of jurisdiction.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, whether it is the Province of Quebec or the Province of Manitoba or any province in Canada, we have to respect and work with provincial entities if we want to achieve maximum employment and maximum skill set development.

There is a strong role for the federal government to demonstrate leadership on that file. It is equally important that we also recognize the many different institutions that develop those skill sets and the stakeholders that use those skill sets.

What we really need to do is recognize that we have to put Canadians first and foremost as the highest priority. If we do that and acknowledge it as the highest priority, then it behooves all levels of government to start working more closely together.

In terms of the reference to the jobs grant, much like the action plan, I think the amount of money that we spend to promote the action plan or the jobs bank is insulting. In this case it does not even exist yet. It is just so the government can pat itself on the back.

Let us deal with real—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Order, please. Resuming debate, the hon. member for Calgary Northeast.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise in favour of the motion and the ninth report of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities entitled “Labour and Skills Shortages in Canada: Addressing Current and Future Challenges”.

The report acknowledges that the issue of labour and skills shortages is very complex and requires coordinated action on a number of fronts.

I would like to take this opportunity to highlight what the Government of Canada is doing to close the skills gap. I would also like to address some of the opportunities our partners in the private sector have to be part of the solution.

Now is a critical time for Canada's economic recovery. While markets are fragile because of global uncertainty, Canada is still on the path toward economic growth and prosperity, but this growth can only be sustained if we have a skilled and knowledgeable workforce, which means that our workers must be equipped with the basic skills required to drive the economy. These skills are building blocks recognized in our government's budget, economic action plan 2013.

The economic action plan proposes new measures to connect Canadians with available jobs and to provide them with the skills and training they need to strive in today's economy. These measures include introducing the new Canada job grant, creating more opportunities for apprentices and providing employment support to underrepresented groups, such as people with disabilities, youth, aboriginal people and newcomers.

While significant money is spent on training, it is clear we can do better. There are still too many unemployed Canadians looking for jobs and too many businesses looking for workers.

I would like to focus on the Canada job grant, which seeks to connect Canadians looking to increase their skills with job creators who need skilled workers.

Mr. Speaker, I forgot to mention that I will be splitting my time with my colleague.

For example, a small dental practice in London, Ontario, might be seeking a new dental assistant. The current receptionist is interested in the position but is not qualified. The dentist is keen to retain this worker in her practice and contributes $2,500 toward a $7,500 Canada job grant. That also results in equal contributions of $2,500 from the federal and provincial governments to allow the receptionist to complete the dental assistant course at the local community college. The original receptionist works with the dentist to hire and train a new receptionist. Now working as a new dental assistant, the employee's wage has increased 25%. That dentist has managed to retain a committed and loyal employee and also has the additional flexibility to manage periodic employee absences by having an employee trained in several areas of the practice.

As members can see from the example, for the first time the Canada job grant is taking skills training choices out of the hands of the government and putting them where they belong: in the hands of job creators and Canadians looking for work.

Given the magnitude of the problem, we must ask all players, including employers and post-secondary institutions, to step up to the plate to address this very serious issue. This is especially true for Canadian companies that want their businesses to grow.

According to a survey conducted by the Conference Board of Canada, the average amount companies spent for employees on training and development in 2011 was $747. Companies allocated 1.5% of their payroll budget to training, down from 2% in the 1990s. As well, 51% of organizations plan to cut spending on training, and 33% of Canadian employees said they wanted to further their skills but did not.

Now that the recovery is starting to get a foothold, we believe companies should invest more aggressively in their employees' skills and in their future.

What we are saying is that our future balance sheets could be much better if we invested in the skills needed to propel our economy, and this is the central point in the report: that a concerted effort is required by everyone to tackle this important issue.

Ensuring that Canadians have the skills required for the jobs of today and tomorrow is critical to achieving our top priorities of job creation, economic growth and long-term prosperity for Canadians. A shortage of workers with the right skills can mean forgone business opportunities for Canadian enterprises, lost productivity for Canada, and lower living standards and fewer employment opportunities for Canadians.

Let me quote a few experts on the skills shortage facing Canadians.

In August 2012, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business said that a shortage of skilled labour is the main operating challenge facing business owners in Newfoundland.

Susan Holt, the New Brunswick Business Council CEO, said on February 24, 2012:

There are more shortages in the higher-skilled positions but we still have 30 per cent of respondents highlighting challenges in filling low-skilled positions.

Perrin Beatty, the president and CEO of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, said on February 8, 2012:

...what I'm hearing from businesses is they cannot get their hands on the people they need to allow them to expand and be more competitive.

As committee members heard as they travelled to all regions in Canada, the skills gap is real and it is holding back our economy from fully developing. We want to ensure every Canadian can find a place in the job market, because Canadian employers need every last one of them.

Highlighting youth, economic action plan 2013 proposes several strategic investments to help them at different stages of their education and careers.

For example, to make maximum use of education and talent of recent graduates, we will invest through the career focus program to support 5,000 more paid internships for recent post-secondary graduates and we will also improve labour market information for young people considering careers in high-demand fields such as the skilled trades, science, technology, engineering and mathematics.

These youth-focused initiatives are accompanied by supports for persons with disabilities, aboriginal people and newcomers that will help meet the employment needs of Canadian businesses and improve individuals' job prospects.

With initiatives such as the Canada job grant, we are addressing the real needs of workers and employers.

By working collaboratively, employers, industry, educational institutions and governments can ensure that our workforce can keep Canada competitive and prosperous for the long term.

This is why we are pleased to provide our support to concur in this report.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I followed the member's speech with great interest. We serve on the committee together, so I know his perspective on many of these issues quite well.

I want to ask him specifically, though, about the part of his speech in which he talked at length about the Canada job grant. He talked about it in much the same way that the TV ads do. He lauded it as a great program, as the next best thing for Canadians who are looking to upgrade their skills, yet the program does not actually exist.

What we know about the job grant is that there is an ad campaign running in the middle of NHL hockey games, I think to the tune of $90,000 per ad, about a program that advertises the Canada job grant, which does not exist.

I wonder if the member, because he talked about it in his speech, knows more about it than the rest of us in this House do. If he does, I wonder whether he would share those details with the rest of us.

I would ask him quite directly here, since he raised it, to give members of this House the details of the Canada job grant and how it would help people in my community of Hamilton Mountain and, indeed, people right across this country.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I honestly love this question. I do not know where the member lives, but I can tell her one thing: this program is introduced in the budget. I myself have already started consultations.

I will quote what I heard from the United Way president and CEO, Dr. Lucy Miller, and its vice-president and chief operating officer, Heather MacDonald. They said that the government's focus on skills training is in line with the United Way's project called All In. At Bishop McNally High School they started to invite high school dropouts back to school and were encouraging students in higher learning such as skilled trades and colleges.

I would encourage the member opposite to start consulting her constituents.

[Rodney Weston, Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to talk about the Canada jobs grant as well. I wonder if the member could explain to the House why this is so important. Could he explain why we should be dealing not only government to government but also government to business? We all know how important the economy is and how much value we place on a skilled, trained workforce. I am wondering if the hon. member could talk a bit about why it is so important that businesses be incorporated into this model as well.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, too many jobs go unfilled in Canada because employers cannot find workers with the right skills. As I mentioned, there are always good results when it is a partnership and also when all stakeholders are involved. It is important to work with employers with a vested interest in keeping their employees for the long term and having their skills updated. It is important for all stakeholders to get involved and invest in the skills they require.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to repeat the question raised by my colleague in the House. I wonder if the member could tell us the details about what exactly the skills program is doing rather than just giving us accolades from some people about a program they might know about but the House does not yet know about.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I guess I have to repeat my answer because the hon. member seems to have missed the point. This program was introduced in Canada's action plan 2013. Consultation is going on and stakeholders are taking note of it. I can assure the member opposite that the stakeholders I have been consulting with are encouraged to see this kind of program and they do appreciate it.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the question to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment is as follows: the hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands, Airport Security.

Resuming debate. The hon. Minister of Labour.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Minister of Labour]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin by commending the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities for examining the issue of skills and labour shortages in Canada. We cannot speak of skills and labour shortages in Canada without mentioning how strongly the future is linked to the economic development of the resources in our country, especially since these resources are so abundant in so many regions.

I have consulted widely with employers and unions across the country with respect to challenges being faced in the workplace. What has come back very clearly to me from both sides is that labour and skills shortages are a major concern of both management and unions. That is why the key focus of our economic action plan 2013 is on skills training and development. It is not just on skills development in general, but on skills and development training that are going to meet specific labour market demands for all Canadians.

Our Conservative government recognizes that we have more to do to maximize participation by Canadians in the market, with initiatives that connect more people to the jobs that are available now and in the future. That is where we have been focusing in recent years.

We know that to improve Canada's long-term economic outlook, we need to get more of Canada's underutilized workers and their skills to work. We have been improving the employment insurance program so we can ensure that Canadians have a better connection with the jobs available. We are also working to better connect the EI system to the temporary foreign worker program to ensure that we always put Canadian workers first. That is why economic action plan 2013 would invest significantly in skills and training; to ensure that all Canadian workers have the skills they need to play an active part in the labour market and, ultimately, contribute to our country's economic growth.

Economic action plan 2013 puts forward a three-point plan to connect Canadians with jobs available. Most notably, and this is what we have been speaking about in the House today, is the new Canada jobs grant. It is a very exciting program, because it will potentially provide hundreds of thousands of Canadians each year with $15,000 or more to retrain; $5,000 of this will come from the federal government. The provinces and territories and employers will be expected to match that contribution.

At the time of introducing the economic action plan, the Minister of Finance said:

The Canada Job Grant will take skills-training choices out of the hands of government and put them where they belong: in the hands of employers [...] and Canadians who want to work.

More importantly, the new grant should lead to one essential thing for unemployed or underemployed Canadians: a job.

That is not all. The economic action plan committed to creating more opportunities for apprentices as well. To help reduce barriers to accreditation, we are going to invest $4 million over three years to work with the provinces and the territories to harmonize requirements and examine the use of practical tests as a method of assessment.

We are also going to reform procurement practices. This is very important, because we are going to encourage contractors to hire apprentices on federal construction and maintenance projects. We are going to work with the provinces and territories to ensure that they, too, support the employment of apprentices.

Our third focus in economic action plan 2013 would improve support to groups that are currently under-represented in the job market. These are youth, Canadians with disabilities, aboriginal people and newcomers to Canada. We want to ensure that every Canadian can find a place in the job market because, quite frankly, Canadian employers need every last one of them.

To highlight youth, economic action plan 2013 proposes several strategic investments to help the youth at different stages of their education and, of course, their careers.

To give an example, to make maximum use of the education and talents of graduates, we are going to invest significant funding through the career focus program to support more than 5,000 paid internships for recent post-secondary graduates. We will also reallocate money over two years to improve labour market information for young people considering careers in those high demand fields, such as the skilled trades, science, technology, engineering and mathematics. These youth-focused initiatives would be accompanied by supports for persons with disabilities, aboriginal people, and of course, for newcomers to help meet the employment needs of Canadian businesses and improve individuals' job prospects along the way.

As anyone with young people knows, young workers entering the workforce face an uncertain job market, while at the same time, some industries in certain sectors face labour shortages that young Canadians could fill. The youth employment strategy, whose budget has been significantly increased over the past few years, is helping youth develop the skills and gain the experience they need to get jobs now and prepare for the workforce of tomorrow. Since 2006, our efforts have helped over 2.1 million young people get skills, training and jobs in the Canadian labour market.

We are also helping young people, and especially students from low-income and middle-income families, by making post-secondary education and training more accessible.

A mix of supports is available to help Canadians save for, finance and repay their post-secondary education. Measures include the Canada learning bond, Canada education savings grant, Canada student grants, Canada student loans and the repayment assistance plan.

The best programs to develop young people's skills and ensure they are adapted to the needs of employers are those that are offered in workplaces. That is especially true in the case of the skilled trades. That is why our government created the apprenticeship grants, which match skills with the jobs available. The apprenticeship incentive grant provides up to $2,000 in grants for an apprentice in a red seal trade who completes the first or second level of their apprenticeship program. The apprenticeship completion grant is a $2,000 cash grant for apprentices who successfully complete their training. In other words, apprentices could be eligible to receive up to $4,000 in grants. I am very happy to say that to date, nearly 400,000 apprenticeship grants have been issued across the country.

In addition, employers are encouraged to support apprenticeships through the apprenticeship job creation tax credit. This initiative provides employers with a tax credit equal to 10% of the wages paid to apprentices in designated red seal trades in the first two years of their apprenticeship.

There is also a well of talent in rural and remote communities that we believe has not been fully tapped: our aboriginal people. Through our aboriginal labour market programs, our government works with partners to ensure that aboriginal people are able to take full advantage of the economic opportunities around them.

The federal government's primary programs to support the development of aboriginals' skills are the aboriginal skills and employment training strategy and the skills and partnership fund. Through ASETS, significantly funding has been committed from 2010 to 2015 to increase aboriginal participation in the Canadian labour force. With an investment of significant funds, the skills and partnership fund emphasizes our government's commitment to working with partners to develop projects based on economic opportunities.

One thing is certain: we need to think about our labour market differently. We need to use our imagination and creativity in ways we never have before. We have to think outside the box because we have to match workers and jobs. We need to find solutions to situations where we have double-digit unemployment, yet local companies are searching desperately for skilled labour.

I do believe that this is a great step. I am confident that the actions in the economic action plan 2013 will help address the labour and skills shortages.

[Chris Charlton, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Speaker, maybe the Prime Minister should not have left the country. I think this may be the first time that two Conservatives are not on the same page with respect to their talking points. I asked the member for Calgary Northeast about the details of the Canada jobs grant and he said that he was still out there consulting. Yet the Minister of Labour just said that she was really excited about this program. She must know some details that the member for Calgary Northeast does not. However, I want to ask her about something more specific today.

She will know that one of the ways to fill a skills shortage in the country is by assisting people with labour mobility. We have people in some parts of the country who are unable to access employment whereas we have skills shortages in other parts of the country and there is an opportunity for us to do the right thing and bring people together.

The minister knows, because she has been lobbied by people in my riding, including Joe Beattie from the Hamilton-Brantford Building Trades Council, about my Bill C-201, which would facilitate such labour mobility for people who are working more than 80 kilometres away from home to be eligible for a tax credit for accommodation and travel expenses. The bill was actually supported in the HUMA committee recommendations. Could the Minister of Labour tell the House today whether she also supports the bill?

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Halton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out the fact that I have actually had over three years of discussion with unions and management on issues of skills shortages, so I do possess a greater knowledge of detail of what the issue is. The problem will be addressed in what we are putting forward in Canada's job grant.

With respect to her bill, as the member knows, the lead minister on this is the Minister of Finance. I look forward to discussing the matter with him in due course.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, on that last point, while the Minister of Labour is discussing the issue with the Minister of Finance, due to some of the changes that the government has made, we have more and more people commuting to Alberta and Saskatchewan for work. One guy told me the other day that his cost of transportation was $18,000 for the year, but that was not deductible as an expense in going to work. Therefore, I would encourage her to talk strenuously to the Minister of Finance.

I enjoyed the minister's remarks and she made some goods points on some of the things she was doing under her portfolio. However, the problem is with the other changes that the government has made, which are really affecting labour in my province. Those are the employment insurance changes. These changes are affecting labour in the seasonal industries negatively.

Does she have any solutions to propose that would stop this disincentive to work in much of rural Canada, which is happening as a result of the EI changes in those seasonal industries?

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Halton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, being from Cape Breton Island, I spend a significant amount of time visiting businesses and relatives in the area. I have had the opportunity to discuss the employment insurance changes and clarifications that we have brought in to better connect unemployed Canadians with the jobs that are available in the area. I disagree with what the member is saying.

Fundamentally, employment insurance will be there for those who need it at the time they need it. That is a truism. It will be available, and that is exactly what will happen. However, our ability to connect Canadians who do not have a job, who are searching for a job, with all of the jobs available in their area is extremely important. Information is power.

I know the member agrees with me that people out there who are on unemployment definitely want to find jobs because there is dignity in going to work every day. That is what they are searching for and that is what we are providing when we give them the information to find where the jobs are.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to rise today to speak to something that is very important to Canadians today, and that is the skills and labour shortages. Canadians did not really need a lot of media focus on this. They live this every day and they live this because skilled Canadians apply for jobs and are told they do not have skills. Instead, workers are being brought in under the temporary foreign worker program.

Before I get started, I want to talk about the federal Canada jobs grant for workers and all the advertising that has been done. I have heard today in the House that there is some consultation going on. I have also heard from another member that this program is well researched, there is a lot of data and a lot of plans are being made. The fact is that it does not exist. What it does is creates false hope and gives people misinformation because the government is advertising something that does not exist yet. I would ask us all to take a look at that.

There is another thing I want to focus on today. I have heard a lot about apprenticeships and skills training. I want to talk a bit about my experiences as a high school counsellor and classroom teacher in a high school for a great number of years. Over the last 25 years, I have personally witnessed the decimation of the apprenticeship program and the dismantling of the skills training that used to exist. I will reference British Columbia specifically because that is the province I am very familiar with.

Just over a decade ago, British Columbia stopped funding in the same way for apprenticeship programs, the grants and things that were available, but something else happened over a decade ago. The tuition costs for the courses that apprentices took tripled and quadrupled overnight. There used to be a different fee level for apprenticeship academic courses compared to university degree courses. The government of the day in British Columbia made the fees the same. It did not lower the fees, by the way, it raised the other fees.

In the high school in Nanaimo that I taught in, there was a huge ricochet effect because suddenly many young students from struggling working-class and middle-class families found they could not afford it. Not only were the grants cut at that time in huge amounts, but also, with the costs going up and the student loan program being changed, it shut the door to a whole generation that would have gone into the skills area.

The other thing that happened was a modular program was brought in, which really put the Red Seal in jeopardy across Canada. It had a huge impact in British Columbia. When we talk about the existing skills shortage, I do not think we should talk about it as if it is something that has just been discovered in the last year or two. I believe this has been systematically created over the last few decades.

It is only recently that the CBC covered a story where well-qualified IT people in a bank, and it happened in many banks after that, were laid off. When they were laid off, they were asked, “Before you leave, could you please train these people we are bringing in from other countries? We are going to be paying them a lot less, they can't do your jobs, train them and move on”.

That is not creating and nurturing skill development or utilization of the skills we have in Canada. Now we are hearing not one but hundreds of stories of people who say they came to our country to do these so-called high-tech IT jobs. When they came here they did not find it was all that it was made out to be. Many of them ended up doing other jobs.

There is a pathway to citizenship in there somewhere, but this is what it looks like. If a person is one of those temporary foreign workers who gets a pathway to citizenship and actually gets to apply for permanent residency, guess what happens. Many are coming into MPs' offices and saying that as soon as they get permanent residency, they are laid off because employers would rather bring in another group of temporary foreign workers because they can pay them less.

Therefore, it is very hard for us to believe how serious the Conservatives are about meaningful employment for Canadians where Canadians get to earn a living wage. Instead what we have seen are policies that suppress wages and policies that, from the reports we hear in the agricultural and other sectors, are very abusive relationships in the payment, the recruitment and also in the working lives of some of the workers who come here.

I want to take this opportunity to clarify something that I have said 1,000 times. It appears my colleague from Winnipeg North has not heard it and is deliberately failing to understand it and thus he misrepresents the NDP position on temporary foreign workers. I have said this 1,000 times, so let me say it again, and I hope my colleague is listening this time and that it will actually sink in.

The NDP supports a temporary foreign worker program where no Canadian is available to do the work. We support a program that addresses a specific skill shortage, where the needs are identified and temporary foreign workers come in for a temporary time while Canadian skill sets are grown. In the agricultural sector, where there is an acute shortage in many areas, we support a living wage for all and fair working conditions. With all of that in place, if there still are no Canadians available and able to do the work, that is when we look at a temporary foreign worker program.

It is under the Liberal government, by the way, that the floodgates to temporary foreign workers were opened. I know the huge tsunami of over 400,000 people hit us under the Conservative government, but it could not have taken place without the Liberals, while they were in government, opening up that floodgate. It is important that this be put on the record.

Once again, Canada is a country that has been built through immigration. Almost every one of us, except for a small handful, were either our parents, grandparents or great-great-grandparents came from another country. We came here for a variety of reasons. We came here when there was a labour shortage. I am one of those. I came to Canada when there was a shortage of English teachers in Quebec. I did not come in as a temporary foreign worker. I and my husband came in as permanent residents. That is how we built our country.

If we have a legitimate skills shortage that we cannot fill, and it is only temporary, then I can see why we would use a temporary foreign worker program. However, what we are seeing is that while people in the same part of the country, in the same environment, are on employment insurance and are looking for work, the government has allowed a huge number of temporary foreign workers to come into this country and thus suppress wages. It has also created problems for many who have come into this country.

Only yesterday I read an article about a very highly trained IT worker who applied to a huge number of companies. They were all hiring. He thought that being a Canadian and having the skill set he had a crack at the jobs. However, he only heard back from two companies. The rest of them did not even acknowledge the fact that he sent his resumé in. Guess what they did? Guess what has happened to him? He did not get the jobs. Many of the jobs went to what some people call intra-company transfers.

I am going to hear the rhetoric that Conservatives fixed the program, but there is a fundamental flaw, which is that LMOs are given without due diligence and without proper oversight. When they are given that way, Canadians are not aware of the jobs, nor is there an onus on the employer to advertise those jobs in a meaningful way to make sure that it is communicated.

With high unemployment and youth unemployment sitting at double digits, the youth I talk to find it very difficult to talk about the government's economic action plan. They find it very hard to talk about all the jobs being created. All they know is that after getting into huge debt and developing skill sets they thought were going to be in demand, labour is being brought in from other countries, and they are without work. This is where the federal government has to play a role. This is where employers have to play a role as well.

Industry has an absolute obligation to develop the skill sets it needs, not on its own—I am not saying that—but in partnership. This is where the government has a critical role to play. Instead of passing the buck, it has to work with partners and industry. It has to work with community organizations. It has to work with post-secondary institutions and provide scholarships and affordability so that our youth, and those of us who are not so young but are in need of a change in career, can actually go out and get that training.

I talk to many people in their forties and fifties who are still ready and willing to work for the next 15 or 20 years, but they are being laid off. They are looking to transition into other jobs or just to do their own jobs, which are now being filled through so-called intra-company transfers.

The recent changes to the temporary foreign worker program actually failed to address the administration and enforcement. Of course we have rules that say that an LMO can only be given “if”, but who is making sure the “if” is fulfilled? It seems recently that the way the LMOs were handed out was faster than a McDonald's fast food outlet. People could just walk in and say they wanted one and they were given some.

Even those that were meant only for highly skilled workers, such as the ALMOs, were handed out. No wonder the public has very little faith and very little trust that the government is there to protect their interests and to look after jobs for Canadians. B.C. is a prime example. There was the mining fiasco, where Mandarin was required while highly qualified and experienced miners were sitting right there, not being hired.

I was just talking to a young man last week as I was going door to door in my beautiful British Columbia, where the sun was shining. What he said to me was that he had heard all the hype about all the jobs that were going to be available in high tech. He spent lots of money, by the way. It was kind of astounding me when he told me the debt load he had. That debt load was much higher than the total price of the first house I bought after I graduated. That is the kind of debt load our youth are going into the future with.

What he said was that except for working in a bar and occasionally in a restaurant, he has not been able to find any work in his field. This is the field we were encouraging young people to go into, IT.

I do not have to tell members this. They have watched it on television, not that everything we watch on television is true. We have sound evidence in front of us that the IT jobs are being given away. We can call it outsourcing, in-sourcing, intra-company transfers, or the temporary foreign worker program. Whatever we call it, I call it taking jobs out of the hands of Canadians and giving them to people who do not live in Canada.

By the way, I just want to make it clear that when I am talking about taking jobs away from Canadians, it includes everybody who lives right here in Canada and has legal status in Canada as a permanent resident. It includes the people who just arrived a few weeks ago.

On Saturday, I was talking to an engineer who is now working as a taxi driver. He is highly skilled, has built bridges and did all kinds of amazing things in his home country. He came here with his skill set in hand. He got permission to come to Canada because of his skill set. However, when he got here, it was not recognized. That is the kind of tension we are creating.

I am hearing this over and over again. Being an English teacher, data is not really my forte, but all kinds of people are telling us, and I agree with them, that to plan for the future and to address the present needs, we need hard data. It seems that the government has an allergy to data. Having data might actually lead to making informed policy decisions.

Over the last number of years, what the government has done is collect less data, data that is less reliable and is not as thorough. We are hearing from industry, as well, that the data available is really not anything we can base future labour market planning on. That should cause us all some serious concern.

When we make policy statements based on ideology rather than on the needs and the reality on the ground, it can only lead to mishaps.

One last thing I have to say is that we have to pay special attention to the needs of our aboriginal communities and the youth. Having worked very closely with the youth in those communities and having watched the high stress levels and high suicide rates, it is time we engaged them in a meaningful way to take an active part in the workforce.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for her speech, which was excellent and very clear, as always.

In this time of globalization, a strong and competitive economy requires well-trained workers who have jobs that match their skills. Businesses want well-trained workers too. It is not really acceptable to have doctors and lawyers working as taxi drivers in downtown Montreal. This leads to other problems.

The government, in its wisdom, wants to send EI recipients to where the jobs are. Yet, it does not take skills into account. It also wants persons with disabilities who are available for work to take a job to the extent their disability allows. It wants to do the same for temporary foreign workers and aboriginal people too.

Obviously the Conservatives have completely ignored the fact that workers need to have the skills to do the job. No one can learn a trade overnight. The government needs to come up with a comprehensive worker training plan.

I think the hon. member is well aware of this and I would like to know a bit more about her thoughts on the issue.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, for a number of decades, we have had a huge focus on academic education. I love that focus, but we also have to focus now in post-secondary education on skills development and training. We cannot leave that to just happen. That is where the governments, provincial and federal, have to work in partnership with employers to make sure we are developing the skill sets for the next decade.

To do that in a meaningful way, we need data, which the government is allergic to. If it is allergic to data and yet needs data to make good, informed decisions, what it will do is keep making decisions that will not get it anywhere. Therefore, I believe we have to invest in a very serious way, not just with a few dollars here or there.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Minister of State (Science and Technology) (Federal Economic Development Agency for Southern Ontario)]

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the member if she could comment on the ridiculousness of some of her statements. First, she is now asking that we force Canadians to move anywhere in Canada to get a job. This is after months of beating up on the Minister of Human Resources for having an employment program that required folks to move within an hour.

Second, we put $2 billion into post-secondary education to rebuild research infrastructure but also to lower the pressure on rising tuition fees. One of those projects was at Conestoga College, in my riding. It will now produce about a thousand skilled trades students in the food industry, which is the second largest manufacturing sector in Ontario.

The member and her party vote against it every single time. That is data. How do you respond to that hypocrisy?

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

I would remind the minister and all hon. members to orient their questions to the Chair rather than to their colleagues.

The hon. member for Newton—North Delta.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, there are Canadians with skills, in the areas where they live, where temporary foreign workers are doing the jobs they were doing and could be doing today. No one can deny that. That is firm data. The Alberta Federation of Labour has produced a report that does that matching. The CBC has focused on what is happening in the banking industry, and it is not just RBC.

Is it not coincidental that this huge program the minister talked about happens to be in his riding? We are very happy for him. However, right across Canada, there are Canadians ready and willing to work. At no time did I say pick people up and move them from one province forceably to another. There are people who are willing to be mobile and who are willing to work where jobs are available. The same jobs they were removed from are being done by someone else. What is the minister's answer to that?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is related to the importance of communication between the premiers and the Prime Minister's Office. We have never seen a first ministers conference under the present Prime Minister, where the premiers come to Ottawa or the Prime Minister has a conference in another jurisdiction. It is important for us to develop the skill sets. There has to be communication between the different levels of government, and I would ultimately argue even beyond that. However, it does not appear to be a priority for the Conservative government.

I would ask my colleague to respond to the need for the different stakeholders—and when I talk about stakeholders, I am referring to students, employers, government agencies, and post-secondary facilities such as universities, colleagues and so forth—to meet the demand for the skills for today and tomorrow. Would the member agree that there needs to be better communication, at all levels, and strong leadership from the Prime Minister's Office?

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, every time I hear the word “stakeholder” I quiver. I have watched too many movies involving a stake and a hammer. It makes me shiver.

I absolutely believe that there is a need for partnerships. The federal government, as well as provincial and municipal governments, industry and post-secondary institutions, need to work together to come up with programs that will lead to greater skills development for today and tomorrow. For that we need data, and the government is allergic to data.