Debates of May 28th, 2013

Ethics

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, no, I did not, but it is very clear the Senate committee itself has answered those questions. It is the author of its own report. That report mirrors the recommendations of an independent audit conducted on behalf of the Senate; and the government, as a matter of fact, agrees with the recommendations in those reports, which are that the expenses in question are inappropriate and amounts such as that must be repaid to the taxpayers of Canada.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, did the Prime Minister ever discuss this matter in cabinet?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Senate committee has been very clear. It made its own report on these matters. The government's position is also extremely well known. When people claim expenditures they never actually incurred, these are inappropriate and must be repaid to the taxpayers.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister keeps trying to convince Canadians that he is being straightforward. That was a very straightforward and simple question. Did he ever discuss this matter in cabinet?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Senate committee report is a Senate committee report. It is not a matter of government or cabinet business. That is plainly obvious.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, when did the Prime Minister learn that an agreement had been made with Conservative Senator Mike Duffy? This time we are asking about the agreement, not the payment.

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, once again, it was the same date.

On Wednesday, May 15, Mr. Wright told me that he had given a personal cheque to Mr. Duffy so that he could reimburse the taxpayers.

Until that moment, I thought that Mr. Duffy had paid his own expenses.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, who in the Prime Minister's Office spoke with Mr. Duffy about withholding information from auditors or others investigating this matter?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have no information to that effect. Obviously, as I have said repeatedly, the arrangements between Mr. Duffy and Mr. Wright are a matter of inquiry of the ethics commissioners of both houses of this Parliament, and we will provide any support necessary in those examinations.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, Mike Duffy wrote in an email that after being paid $90,000, he “stayed silent on the orders of the Prime Minister's Office”. Who told Mike Duffy to remain silent?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, these are not matters I am privy to. This is an email from Mike Duffy, who is no longer a member of our caucus and certainly never conveyed that information to me.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, once Mike Duffy received the $90,000 from the Prime Minister's Office, he stopped cooperating with Deloitte, which was the auditor in the file. Was that part of the deal with Mike Duffy?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Again, Mr. Speaker, I think it's important to note the falsehood in that particular question. Mr. Duffy has received no money from the Prime Minister's Office, nor from the taxpayers of Canada. Mr. Wright has been very clear that Mr. Wright gave this money to Mr. Duffy out of his own personal resources, and to my knowledge, there is no legal agreement between the two of them.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, actually, when the chief of staff of the Prime Minister in the course of his functions from the Prime Minister's office gives $90,000 to shut up a sitting senator, that is out of the Prime Minister's Office.

No legal document? A cheque is a document. Do they have a copy of the cheque? Has the Prime Minister or anyone in his office seen that cheque?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, once again, contrary to what the Leader of the Opposition just said, there is no cheque from the Prime Minister's Office. There is no use of Prime Minister's Office funds in this affair.

This was an action Mr. Wright took, using his own resources, on which he is now subject to examination and accountability by the Ethics Commissioner.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, if he has never seen the cheque, how can the Prime Minister rise in this House and tell us that it is a personal cheque? How does he know that it is not from a trust account? How does he know that if he has never seen the cheque?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this is a matter of public record, as Mr. Wright himself has said. I can certainly assure the member that no such money has gone out of our office or out of PMO budget.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has repeatedly stated in this House today that he only learned about the deal between Mr. Wright and Mr. Duffy on May 15.

However, on the evening of May 14, CTV News ran the story about this deal and included commentary from the Prime Minister's own office that no taxpayer money was used.

Is the Prime Minister so completely not aware about what is going on in his own office that he did not know the night before, when the news broke?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I think I have been very clear. Until the morning of May 15, when Mr. Wright informed me that he had written a personal cheque to Mr. Duffy so that he could repay his expenses, it had been my understanding that Mr. Duffy had paid from his own personal resources.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, let us get this straight.

On Tuesday, the Prime Minister's Office denies any problem with the payment. On Wednesday, it is an honourable act. On Friday, Nigel Wright still has the complete confidence of the Prime Minister. Sunday morning, he resigns, but cabinet ministers run around calling him “a great Canadian”.

If the Prime Minister learned about the $90,000 payment at the same time as the rest of us, why did it take him a week to relieve his chief of staff of his responsibilities?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, by his own admission, Mr. Wright made a very serious error. For that, he has accepted full, sole responsibility.

He has agreed to resign. He is subject to an investigation and examination by the Ethics Commissioner, on which I anticipate he will be fully co-operative.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this is what the Prime Minister would have Canadians believe: the chief of staff walks into the Prime Minister's Office on Wednesday morning, looks him in the eye and says that unbeknownst to him he had secretly paid a sitting legislator $90,000 to obstruct an audit.

If that were true, the Prime Minister should have fired Nigel Wright on the spot. Instead, he spent five days defending him and calling him “honourable”.

Has the Prime Minister grown so out of touch that he actually expects Canadians to believe this story?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the facts here are reasonably simple, whether or not the opposition or anybody else particularly likes them.

The facts are simple and they are clear. It was the belief of Mr. Wright—in fact, I think it is fair to say the belief of all of us—that Mr. Duffy should repay any inappropriate expenses. Mr. Wright ultimately decided, on his own, using his own resources, to assist Mr. Duffy in that repayment, a matter he kept to himself until Wednesday, May 15.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, Benjamin Perrin denies having been a part of the decision to give Mike Duffy the money and write him a cheque. He does not deny having drawn up the agreement for Nigel Wright.

Can the Prime Minister tell us what part Mr. Perrin played in this story?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Perrin has already answered these questions. It was Mr. Wright who gave the cheque to Mr. Duffy. According to our information, as far as we know at this time, there is no legal agreement between them.