House of Commons Hansard #258 of the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was railway.

Topics

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

May 30th, 12:55 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

May 30th, 12:55 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

May 30th, 12:55 a.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

May 30th, 12:55 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

All those opposed will please say nay.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

May 30th, 12:55 a.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Fair Rail Freight Service ActGovernment Orders

May 30th, 12:55 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Pursuant to order made on Wednesday, May 22, 2013, the division stands deferred until Thursday, May 30, 2013, at the expiry of the time provided for oral questions.

Prohibiting Cluster Munitions ActGovernment Orders

May 30th, 12:55 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Van Loan Conservative York—Simcoe, ON

moved that Bill S-10, An Act to implement the Convention on Cluster Munitions be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

Prohibiting Cluster Munitions ActGovernment Orders

May 30th, 1 a.m.

Calgary East Alberta

Conservative

Deepak Obhrai ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to rise tonight to begin debate on the second reading of Bill S-10, the prohibiting cluster munitions act.

Canada has long recognized that explosive remnants of war, such as those caused by cluster munitions, are a serious humanitarian concern. They maim and kill innocent civilians around the world. They have a detrimental economic impact, and they hinder access to essential infrastructure.

Deployed from the air or ground, some types of cluster munitions can release dozens, or even hundreds, of smaller submunitions, which can cover a large area quickly. These munitions can have indiscriminate effects, particularly, when they fail to detonate as intended, often causing widespread harm to innocent civilians, especially in heavily populated areas. They can harm and kill innocent civilians, even long after the conflict has ended. Unfortunately, many of these victims are children.

Canada has long played a leading international role in the protection of civilians from the use of conventional weapons that are prone to indiscriminate effects because we have seen the devastating impacts of that use.

Since 2006, our government has contributed to more than 250 projects in this global effort, making us one of the world's top contributors.

More recently, in February of this year, the Minister of State of Foreign Affairs, Americas and Consular Affairs, while in Colombia, announced an additional $2.93 million over four years, to assist landmine survivors, including children and youth, with their recovery and reintegration into society.

I can assure all hon. members that we remain deeply committed to this cause and continue to evaluate possible landmine action projects that will deliver tangible results.

I would now like to address Bill S-10, which I believe would fully implement our legislative requirements under the Convention on Cluster Munitions. Canada was a key participant throughout the negotiations of the convention. We are proud to have been among its first 94 signatories in December 2008.

From the beginning, Canada's goal was to strike a balance between a commitment to the elimination of cluster munitions and effective, legitimate and important security considerations. Bill S-10 would do just that.

During negotiations, we committed to the eventual elimination of these weapons, but we also had to recognize the reality that not all countries were participating in the negotiations or were ready to commit to a convention. A compromise was needed to allow countries that wanted to renounce cluster munitions and ratify the convention to be able to engage in military co-operation and operations with countries that intended to retain these weapons for the time being.

The compromise that was reached set out that these military activities would be permitted on the basis that the state parties would engage in diplomatic advocacy to urge non-state parties to reconsider. That compromise, found in article 21, was critical to allowing Canada and its allies to join the convention. Canada had a clear mandate in negotiations. We have always been open and transparent in exactly what we wanted to accomplish. It is important to note that this was not just the Canadian position but was shared by other countries. The provision of article 21 was necessary to bring others on board.

Bill S-10, when enacted, would prohibit the use, development, making, acquisition, possession, movement, import, and export of cluster munitions. It would also prohibit the stockpiling of cluster munitions in Canada, through the proposed offence of possession. This offence would cover any form of possession, including stockpiling, and would easily be enforced and, if necessary, prosecuted in Canada's criminal justice system.

Bill S-10 would also prohibit anyone from aiding or abetting another person in the commission of a prohibited activity. This would capture a number of potential cross-border scenarios where people or organizations subject to Canadian law engage in activities that are prohibited by the convention. It would also ensure that those who are subject to Canadian law could be prosecuted for the offences in Canada.

For example, the convention does not require state bodies to criminalize investment. However, liability for aiding and abetting, as set out in the bill, would include investment scenarios in which there is sufficient intention and connection between the investment and the prohibited activity to meet Canadian charter and criminal law requirements.

We recognize that one of the most discussed aspects of the convention relates to article 29, which specifically allows state parties to engage in military co-operation and operations with states that are not party without breaching their obligations. As the convention allows this, the proposed legislation also contains exceptions that would allow Canada to engage in combined military operations and co-operation with states that are not party to the convention. Bill S-10 would preserve Canada's ability to work alongside our allies, and it would provide Canadian Forces members and civilians with them assurances that they would not face criminal liability when doing their jobs.

For Canada, military co-operation and operations with other states that currently do not intend to ratify the convention, such as the United States, are of central importance to our security and defence policy. Again, it is vital that our men and women in uniform are not unjustly accused of criminal conduct and are in no way compromised in doing their jobs or what we ask of them in the interest of national security and defence.

Even in the context of military co-operation, the convention reiterates that state parties shall not engage in specified activities that are fully within their control. Under Bill S-10, Canadian Armed Forces members would be prohibited from using cluster munitions in their operations. They would not be able to request their use if the choice of munitions was under exclusive Canadian control, even in the context of joint military operations. In addition, and going beyond what is required by the convention, as a matter of policy, the Canadian Forces would prohibit personnel on exchange, secondment or attachment with allied forces from themselves using cluster munitions and from training and instructing in the direct use of cluster munitions. The Canadian Forces would also prohibit, as a matter of policy, the transportation of any cluster munitions aboard Canadian assets.

As the prohibiting cluster munitions act makes its way through the legislative process, our government has already taken concrete steps to fulfill its commitment under the Convention on Cluster Munitions. The Canadian Armed Forces has removed its remaining stockpiles of cluster munitions from active service and has already begun the process of destroying them. We are confident that the destruction will be completed within the timeframe required by the convention. It is important to note that Canada has never produced or used cluster munitions in its operations.

We are already active in promoting the universalization and implementation of the convention with international partners, and we will continue doing so. As I have previously stated, our government is among the top international donors for addressing the impact of the explosive remnants of war, including cluster munitions.

Knowing the humanitarian devastation caused by the explosive remnants of war, Canada is fully committed to the goals of the Convention on Cluster Munitions and to implementing our requirements under the convention. We are proud to have tabled this legislation, and we are particularly proud of the important role played in Canada to get us here today. It is my hope that all parties will recognize the essential balance between legitimate security and humanitarian concerns and will fully support Bill S-10.

I was just listening to the House leader talking about being very much concerned about our party, and comparing us to the Liberal Party on the other side. However, I want to say that he was in this House and the New Democrats were there as well.

Just because they have moved over here, it does not mean they have suddenly become more concerned about the running of this operation. Let me be very blunt and very clear. This government is committed to working for Canadians to ensure an economic environment, and that is the creation of jobs. Our budget implementation act is there to ensure that our country meets the obligations of ensuring that its citizens have jobs, the ability to educate their children and to have a life that is decent.

Under the New Democrats, if given to them, we would be in very big trouble, in a total economic disaster. It is for that reason they lost the election in British Columbia, because British Columbia was not willing to accept the NDP doctrine of stopping economic progress. They should learn from that instead of giving us lectures about how to run the country.

This government is extremely focused on where we are headed. I want to thank the hon. member, but we will not take his advice.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

Arms TradeAdjournment Proceedings

May 30th, 1:10 a.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, I rise early this morning on adjournment proceedings to pursue a question I raised in the House with the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs, although I initially put the question for the Prime Minister, on March 6 of this year.

This pertains to an issue that could not be more timely. That is why I accepted the opportunity to debate on the matter after 1 a.m. this morning rather than risk not being able to put the question for the hon. parliamentary secretary for a response.

The issue I raised March 6 was with respect to the treaty on conventional arms. It is the arms trade treaty. When I raised the issue, March 18 was still ahead of us and the United Nations was going to be debating this critical treaty.

As I stated in my question for the hon. minister, I was grateful for the fact that Canada was overall supportive of the treaty, but it did seem strange that we had decided not to support the important criterion that if corruption was at stake, it should be one of the measurements of whether an arms deal should be approved under the treaty. I also wanted to have the assurance of the Prime Minister that Canada was supporting all elements of the treaty.

This treaty did go to successful conclusion in negotiations at the special session of the United Nations that began on March 18. There was a great deal of celebration around the world for that and Canada did vote for the treaty.

However, the news reports that came out of New York, following the treaty's acceptance, suggested that Canada's support was somewhat lukewarm. There have been efforts to find out whether Canada plans to sign on as an early ratifier so we can be part of getting this treaty operationalized globally.

Spokesmen from the office of the Minister of Foreign Affairs have been somewhat equivocal about whether Canada will join on soon. I put that in contrast with Norway, New Zealand and Japan, countries that have said, yes, that they will sign on when the treaty is open for signature, which happens as early as this coming Monday, June 2. Therefore, we will see countries signing on and as soon as 50 countries have ratified, the arms trade treaty will take effect.

Let me just review what this treaty would do. It would create common international standards for the regulation of the international trade in conventional arms ammunition, parts and components. It applies to tanks and all manner of munitions. It will help make the world safer.

We have been troubled by the fact that the non-government organizations allowed on the Canadian delegation were limited to groups that supported the use of private long guns. That is perfectly appropriate within Canada. However, it is a mismatch when we are looking at a global treaty to protect nations around the world from the damage done by a conventional arms trade.

Therefore, I look forward to words from the parliamentary secretary, my friend. I hope he will confirm that Canada has decided to be an early adapter, a country that will ratify along with Norway, New Zealand and Japan, at our earliest opportunity when the treaty opens for signature on June 3. It would be welcomed news for Canadians who yearn for us to return to our traditional role of leadership in peacekeeping and in making the world a safer place.

Arms TradeAdjournment Proceedings

May 30th, 1:15 a.m.

Calgary East Alberta

Conservative

Deepak Obhrai ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for raising this question, even this late at night.

Canada already has some of the highest standards for the export of conventional arms. The items included in the ATT are already subject to export controls in Canada. Furthermore, Canada already applies the criteria set out in the ATT when considering arms export.

Despite the high standards set by Canada, international trade in conventional arms remains poorly controlled in many parts of the world. Providing arms to insurgents, terrorists, transnational criminal groups and rogue regimes undermines international security and trade interests. It is for this reason that Canada participated in the negotiation of the Arms Trade Treaty that would help curtail illicit and irresponsible arms transfers.

Our Conservative government supports the rights of legitimate law-abiding gun owners and to that end, we eliminated the unfair burden of the wasteful and ineffective long-gun registry. It was and remains very important to Canada that an ATT not hinder legal and responsible international trade in conventional arms or create new burdens for Canadian industries or firearms owners. We played a key role in ensuring that the ATT acknowledges the lawful ownership of firearms by responsible private citizens.

The government supported the inclusion of anti-corruption language in the ATT. In fact, Canada already considers corrupt practices when looking at the risk of diversion associated with the proposed export. This is consistent with the government's anti-corruption efforts in domestic and international spheres, including our work within the G20 and the United Nations.

Canada worked closely with our friends and allies in an attempt to negotiate an instrument that would help keep weapons out of the hands of criminals, terrorists and human rights abusers, while at the same time recognizing and protecting the ability of the law-abiding private firearms owners to enjoy the recreational use of their firearms in a responsible manner. The government is now consulting all interested stakeholders on the ATT in order to gain their insight and analysis.

The views of all interested parties in Canada will serve to better inform the government as we decide our next step.

Arms TradeAdjournment Proceedings

May 30th, 1:15 a.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am very grateful to the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs for staying and for expressing gratitude that I raised the issue at this late hour.

I do still have concerns. In part of his remarks, he seemed to, as others have done in his government, conflate the issue of the domestic use of firearms with this treaty. We need to underscore this so that no one is confused about it.

This treaty has nothing to do with the domestic use of firearms and it has nothing to do with any kind of civilian ownership or domestic trade of firearms. It is specifically about ensuring effective regulation of international transfers of conventional weapons. As I said before, it applies to a range of military apparatus, including tanks, armoured combat vehicles, large calibre artillery systems, combat aircraft, attack helicopters, warships, missiles and missile launchers, small arms and light weapons.

We hear the stories of child soldiers and we know that the forced conscription of children into war zones is an appalling and immoral act. If we can control the international trade in these munitions, guns and armaments, we can protect those children and we can reduce conventional conflict in hotspots around the world.

I urge the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and his government to ratify the treaty on June 3.

Arms TradeAdjournment Proceedings

May 30th, 1:20 a.m.

Conservative

Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB

Mr. Speaker, I can understand the concern that the hon. member has expressed in reference to the international export of arms. We have one of the highest standards for exporting conventional arms.

However, when we are signing a convention internationally, it is important to ensure that it does not spill over into the domestic legislation that is currently in Canada. For that reason, we are in consultation with stakeholders. Canada has every intention to control the export of arms to rogue regimes, which she mentioned.

The member can rest assured that we will be working with stakeholders, but our goal in the end is to sign this treaty while making sure that it does not spill over into the domestic laws of this country.

Arms TradeAdjournment Proceedings

May 30th, 1:20 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

Pursuant to an order made on Wednesday, May 22, 2013, the motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until later this day at 10 a.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 1:21 a.m.)