Debates of Feb. 26th, 2014

Ukraine

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Mr. Chair, since our last emergency debate on Ukraine, on January 27, the developments, and more particularly what has happened over the weekend, can only be described as incredible. Canada mourns the lives that were lost, and we are thankful that peace has been restored. Throughout this crisis, Canada has stood firmly behind the people of Ukraine for a free and democratic country, and we will continue to support Ukraine in the transition through this pivotal moment of its history.

It is important to remind the House of how this crisis was created. Canada was both shocked and disappointed when the Ukrainian government suddenly announced on November 21 that it would not pursue an association agreement and deep and comprehensive free trade area with the European Union. This was an abrupt reversal from years of planning and earnest negotiations on the part of our European partners, and a divergence from Ukraine's path of a deeper partnership and integration with the west. Canada believed then, and believes now, that Ukraine's greatest opportunities for a better future lie in association with the European Union.

While the protests started out against Yanukovych's sudden reversal, of course, the voice of the people united to express their disillusion and discontent with much larger issues, such as corruption and the siphoning off of national assets.

One day after our debate on December 10, Ukrainian authorities ordered the use of riot police against peaceful protesters in Kiev's Maidan square. Our Prime Minister issued a statement to express his deep concern regarding the use of force against Ukrainian citizens who were within their rights to protest and express their opinions.

A few days later, I personally visited Kiev with the Canadian delegation. We visited the protesters in Maidan square and encouraged the Ukrainians to find a peaceful solution to the crisis. The Ukrainians I met are tired of the corruption in their nation, and they want to embrace Europe and the west. They do not want to go backwards to become a satellite of the Russian empire once again. The protesters were positive, hopeful about their future, and determined to see that their demands would be met. Sadly, as they marched with the hope of changing the future of their country and becoming closer to Europe, braving harsh winter conditions in order to stage 24-hour protests, President Yanukovych again blighted Ukrainians' faith for a better future.

On December 17, Mr. Yanukovych travelled to Russia to meet with President Putin, where he accepted a $15-billion aid package along with reduced prices for gas. While the deal provided an urgent boost to Ukraine's fast deteriorating economy, it was unclear what conditions were imposed by Russia. However, far from quelling protesters, the deal had the exact opposite effect. Massive rallies took place in Kiev and other parts of Ukraine. We now know the outcome of those protests. There were dozens who were killed or seriously injured. Yanukovych has now abandoned his office, and a transitional government is being formed in anticipation of free elections to be held later this year.

I would like to offer a few observations on the current situation. While the oppressive Yanukovych regime is gone, Ukraine faces major challenges in the months and years ahead. The economy there remains fragile, and foreign assistance is essential. Canada and the west, through the International Monetary Fund, are prepared to provide an assistance package, and $15 billion has been set aside by the IMF. While Europe and the west provide Ukraine's best options in terms of expanded trading opportunities, reaching agreements will require negotiation and compromise.

We also call on the Russian government to continue to respect the sovereignty of Ukraine. I was very encouraged to hear the Russian ambassador's recent comments indicating that his nation will not intervene militarily.

In terms of the domestic political situation, the variety and number of political parties present challenges in reaching a consensus on the many important issues facing the nation. Regardless, we call on all parties and leaders to respect the rights of all Ukrainians. Ensuring minority rights are protected demonstrates a nation's commitment to freedom and the rule of law. The rule of law also demands that those who committed crimes, firing on unarmed protesters, be brought to justice and tried impartially.

Even as the barricades come down and people return to their normal lives, the events at Maidan and cities across Ukraine will always serve as a lasting reminder of the deep commitment to freedom that the Ukrainian people have. It is a commitment that Canadians share, and we will stand by Ukraine at this challenging time of transition as they aspire to a better future.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Mr. Chair, when I was paying attention to my hon. colleague's speech, I thought it was particularly interesting that he mentioned economic issues. I think the political economy of Ukraine is one of the central elements of what is going on there. To focus more particularly on energy policy, when I was in Europe for the CETA agreement study, the committee heard a number of things about what Europe could offer as an energy package to eastern Europe. The weakness that the European economy has gone through has made it difficult for Europe to offer a robust energy package; therefore, this issue of energy in Ukraine has to be solved. Some of the aid that is going toward economic aid should definitely go to ensuring that Ukraine is not dependent on Russian energy sources. If not, this problem may reoccur in the future. I wonder if my hon. colleague has any thoughts on that.

Whenever a democracy is fragile, it should concern us all. It concerns me. I have been paying particular attention to this, though I am not of Ukrainian decent, nor do I have many Ukrainians in my riding, although I am sure there are few. However, it is of concern to me as a democrat and a parliamentarian. We should all be concerned when a democracy is fragile.

Does my hon. colleague have any thoughts on the energy policy side of things?

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Mr. Chair, for a time my colleague and I served together on the trade committee. I fully appreciate the information and what he learned on his visit to Europe as we were studying the CETA agreement.

He makes a good point. Part of the reason that Ukraine is in this situation is because it does not have a lot of options. It is heavily dependent on Russian oil and gas, and desperately dependent on some financial stability, which was promised by Russia.

There is no doubt that even with the IMF coming in and providing a $15-billion loan, things will almost certainly get more difficult than better. Almost every time the IMF comes along it provides support, but it is not without conditions. Sometimes the conditions can be the hardest part of the medicine. However, the alternative is worse. We have seen that the alternative has been rejected. Therefore, Ukraine may not have any other choice than to take the package provided to it, including the conditions that go along with that.

The European Union has promised some amount of support. What that number will be we do not yet know. We do not have all of the information we need as a country to assess, with our partners, what we can do to help. That is why it is so important that the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the rest of the delegation, who are departing as we speak for Ukraine, speak with this intermediate government and assess what kind of support is needed. That is the beginning of the conversation. We will know much more once they get back and we have had that discussion.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I want to ask a question that is pegged to the comment made by my hon. colleague from the New Democratic Party. I was especially struck by his comment that he is not Ukrainian Canadian and does not have Ukrainian Canadians in his riding. I think it is great to hear that hon. member speaking this evening.

As a Ukrainian Canadian, I am proud of the work that the Ukrainian Canadian community has done to directly support the people in Ukraine and to inform our parliamentarians. However, it is essential that we not see this as an issue simply for Ukrainian Canadians or people elected by them. This is an issue for all Canadians. I would love to hear from the hon. member on the opposite bench as to whether he agrees with that.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Mr. Chair, let me first make it clear that I do have Ukrainian descent, and my wife has Ukrainian descent, and I have Ukrainians in my constituency. However, that is not the only reason I am here. I am also here because, as a country, we need to support democracies around the world. We need to be there when they are in crisis. We need to help them re-establish freedom, human rights, and the rule of law, and that is exactly what our government has done and what we intend to do.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am pleased to once again take part in this special debate on the situation in Ukraine.

Canada has a very special relationship with Ukraine, given that there are over 1.2 million Canadians who claim Ukrainian descent, that Canada was the first country to recognize newly independent Ukraine, and given our history of working with Ukraine to help it evolve into a democracy. I personally have served three times as an election observer in Ukraine.

I am not of Ukrainian descent, but I am very proud to have many folks of Ukrainian descent in my riding and many Ukrainian institutions. There are two different credit unions, seniors' services, and newcomers' services. People of Ukrainian descent have shaped the wonderful community that is the riding of Parkdale--High Park, which I am proud to serve.

Many people of Eastern European descent live in our community. There are people from the Balkans, Lithuanians, Latvians, and people of Polish descent. They are people who have travelled along the road to independence and have fought hard for their independence in what are today successful, thriving democracies.

I know from the many people who have contacted my office that they have agonized over the current situation in Ukraine. In my experience working with the community of Parkdale—High Park, and having been in Ukraine and met with many Ukrainians during my time as an election observer, I know how badly Ukrainians want a normal democracy. They want a democracy that respects the rule of law, that respects human rights, and that is free of corruption. They want a democracy where they can have business investments and where businesses know that the rule of law will be followed.

This has obviously been a rocky road for Ukrainians. They have impressed on me so many times how badly and how strongly they want to see a normal democracy in Ukraine.

The recent terrible tragic events have hit home especially hard for the people in Parkdale—High Park, and indeed right across this country and around the world.

There have been many rallies and gatherings in Toronto in solidarity with Ukrainians. Just last Sunday, hundreds of people were at Queen's Park, the Ontario legislature in Toronto, and it was a sombre and solemn moment when the long list of names of those who died in the recent events was read. They came from the Maidan, from Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine, and from other cities as well. This was a sad and tragic loss. From Canada's perspective, we have to do everything possible to help stabilize the situation and prevent further bloodshed.

There are many challenges on the road ahead. The temperature has been turned down, at least for now. A priority has to be that Canada do whatever is possible to help resolve the current situation with a political solution and that further violence not take place.

Our party and our foreign affairs critic have long called for sanctions. The government brought in sanctions.

I was at the foreign affairs committee today, and in questioning, government officials were vague about the travel sanctions that have been put in place. They could not tell us what form these travel sanctions were taking.

They have also put in abeyance the economic sanctions against those responsible for the violence and bloodshed in Ukraine. This is very concerning, because this transition period may well be the very time when they, through corruption, are trying to take vast sums out of Ukraine. Now is the time we should be ensuring that these economic sanctions have teeth. However, we heard directly from government officials that the economic sanctions have been put in abeyance. In fact, they are not being put into effect. I would like to hear from the government side about this, because this is very concerning.

I also have joined with my colleagues in advocating for a high-level parliamentary delegation on the ground in Ukraine, which our foreign affairs critic has long advocated, to keep the temperature down. They could do whatever is possible to help form a political solution and offer a model of democracy where parties with differing views can work together for a bigger issue. In this case, the bigger issue is democracy in Ukraine.

We were saddened and quite frustrated by the decision of the government to take that suggestion from our party but to exclude opposition parliamentarians. We think that is frankly a very sad decision, a very immature decision, on the part of the government. We need to be co-operating and working together to help Ukrainians do the same thing: co-operate and work together for the greater good, which is the success of Ukraine.

Constituents from Parkdale—High Park who have contacted me were frankly a bit saddened that partisanship would trump the more important question of democracy and human rights in Ukraine. We need to work together. We need to do everything possible to help Ukraine, under its current leadership, be as successful as possible.

Ukraine is in a unique situation. It could be open to the west and take advantage of the incredible success of the markets in the EU and democratize in a western fashion. Yet as a country that has long been close to Russia, it could maintain that close relationship with Russia and be a completely independent and modern democracy, which is what people in that country so badly want.

Our country has a special history of sending election observers and assisting with democratic development in Ukraine. We would like to see this continue. We should have a full observer mission to assist with the upcoming elections in Ukraine. We need to be doing whatever is possible to assist with having free, normal, democratic media and democratic institutions.

Young interns from Ukraine come to our offices on Parliament Hill. I have had several work in my office. The hope they represent is so impressive. If it were up to them alone, the future of Ukraine would be in excellent hands. They are truly inspirational, and we need to make sure that the hopes and dreams of those young Ukrainians are not in vain, that they can fulfill those hopes, and that Ukraine can succeed and play its full role as a modern democracy. All parliamentarians in this House need to do everything we can to make sure that such a future succeeds.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Development]

Mr. Chair, it is interesting to watch my colleagues on the other side in their migration from accusing our government of standing up for only one side.Yet it would appear now that opposition members have migrated in this direction. My colleague spoke very favourably of Ukraine making better and stronger relationships with the European Union.

Does my hon. colleague support a free trade agreement for Ukraine with the European Union, yes or no?

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am not sure I heard the question correctly. Is the hon. member asking me if I think Ukraine should form a free trade agreement with the European Union? Surely that is up to Ukrainians to decide. It is not up to Canada to decide. I am confused by that question.

We would hope that a modern, free, democratic Ukraine would make the decisions that are in the best interests of its citizens. We would hope that those decisions mean it is open to economic relationships with the European Union, but surely we would not want to impose our views on Ukraine. Democracy is about the people in that country making their own decisions. In supporting democracy, we want them to be free to decide their future. Surely that is what this Parliament should support.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to start by saying that I believe I just heard the commitment of the hon. member for Parkdale—High Park to Ukraine impugned, and I think I heard a suggestion that she is somehow a Johnny-come-lately to the Ukrainian cause. Of course, I sincerely hope that Parkdale—High Park will become a Liberal riding again one day. Having declared that partisanship myself, I am Ukrainian Canadian. I go to all of our events. I have seen the hon. member for Parkdale—High Park there. She has been very committed to the Ukrainian Canadian community for a very long time and has worked very hard to embrace our community.

Given her knowledge of Ukraine and her commitment to it, I would like to ask about her views on the evolution of the Ukrainian-Russian relationship. It is very easy right now for Ukrainians to feel tremendous animosity toward Russia, given the role Russia played in fomenting this conflict. It is easy for us also to try to see this as a replay, as a new Cold War. I believe that is a bad outcome for the Ukrainian people, for Ukraine, and for the world. Does the hon. member agree, and how does she see this relationship evolving?

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I want to thank my colleague from Toronto Centre for her, I think, compliment on the work I have done with the Ukrainian community. It is true that not only have I been an election observer for three elections in Ukraine, but I have certainly participated in countless events with the Ukrainian community in Toronto, whether it is festivals and fairs or street festivals. The largest street festival in North America happens to be in Parkdale—High Park. Certainly when necessary, I have joined with the community in many rallies and demonstrations in support of democracy and human rights.

While there has been great concern about the role Russia has played and some of the decisions it has made with respect to Ukraine, again, I want to say that Ukraine is positioned in a unique situation: while it can be open to the west and take advantage of trade with the EU, it also has a long-time relationship with Russia. I do not know that it is helpful for Canadians to try to determine what that relationship is. Ukrainians will make their own decisions in the best interests of Ukraine, and surely that is as it should be.

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would first like to thank my hon. colleague from Parkdale—High Park for her speech. I know that she has the best interests of the Ukrainian people at heart. She mentioned the excellent Ukrainian interns who come work for us for several months at a time. It is a wonderful and very important program.

My question today has to do with how accessible our universities and our Canadian system is to Ukrainian students. This is something that we have felt very strongly about for a number of years now. For quite some time, I have been asking the government to try to improve things in that regard. I truly believe that making it easier for young Ukrainians to access student visas would be an excellent and very simple way for Canada to improve democracy and human rights in Ukraine. We know that giving young people access to other countries and the opportunity to see what life is like elsewhere is an excellent way to promote such improvements.

I would like to hear the member's comments and thoughts on that.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank my colleague, especially for all the work she has done for the Ukrainian community. She has also visited Ukraine several times and demonstrated considerable solidarity with the Ukrainian people.

As I said earlier, the young interns from Ukraine who visited Canada and worked in our offices truly represent an important hope for the future of Ukraine, a future that includes democracy and respect for human rights.

The same can be said about young Ukrainian students. It is important to offer them opportunities to study in Canada. Access to education in Canada is very important. The member's idea is a very good one. It is an opportunity that the Government of Canada could give to Ukrainian youth that could help create a real democracy in that country.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Mr. Chair, I would like to comment on my colleague's comments about members of Parliament interacting with members of the Ukraine parliament. Perhaps an opportunity will come up so we can do just that. There is the Canada-Ukraine parliamentary group and there is the Ukraine-Canada parliamentary group. There will be an election coming up; that is pretty sure. Perhaps at that time, there will be MPs travelling to Ukraine and many of them will be dispersed throughout the regions. It would an excellent time to interact with members in the various regions of Ukraine or maybe getting meetings together with the Ukraine-Canada parliamentary committee and having some introductory discussions on how we can work together, not only on democracy items but also on linguistic inclusiveness and other aspects of inclusiveness of the various regions of east and west.

Perhaps my colleague could respond to that.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, as vice-chair of the Canada-Ukraine Parliamentary Friendship Group, obviously, I would welcome the idea of this kind of exchange with our peers from Ukraine. I think that is a helpful suggestion.

It was in this same spirit that we suggested, initially, that a high-level delegation go to Ukraine to show the spirit of co-operation among parliamentarians, to show that, yes, we may disagree on a whole range of issues, but we can work together. We work together on committees and on these friendship committees, such as the Canada-Ukraine friendship committee. We put the interests of Ukraine first and we put our partisanship aside. It was in that spirit that we proposed, initially, that a high-level delegation go to Ukraine as quickly as possible to not only show by example but also to offer concrete solutions to our parliamentarian peers in Ukraine, given the current and recent tragedies that have taken place there.

I welcome his idea, and I would urge him to encourage his own government to embrace that spirit of co-operation and goodwill and support for democracy, in the hope that perhaps it will have a change of heart and put partisanship aside for the good of the larger issue of democracy and support for Ukraine.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Mr. Chair, just for the record, I am not a Ukrainian Canadian. I was born and raised in Poland, but I do have many Ukrainian Canadians in my constituency. I have a beautiful Ukrainian Catholic church in my constituency and many businesses.

I wanted to take part in this debate because I can truly relate to the struggles of the people in Ukraine and what has been going on in Ukraine over these past few months.

I will be splitting my time with my colleague from Edmonton East.

I agree with the member for Toronto Centre that to fully understand what was going on and to really help Ukraine, we have to understand the historical aspect of the Ukrainians' struggle for independence. I am not talking about the past 24 years, since 1991. It started a long time before that.

I would like to quote two lines from the poem Testament, or Zapovit, written by a Ukrainian icon, Taras Shevchenko:

[Member spoke in Ukrainian and provided the following translation:]

Bury me, then rise up and break your heavy chains.

[English]

This was written over 150 years ago. Ukraine had to wait 130 years after Shevchenko's death to break those chains.

More recently, 10 years ago, during the Orange Revolution, people stood up because after the rigged election they did not accept the results. People did not accept the fact that one of the presidential candidates was being poisoned by secret agents. In 2004 and 2005, after the Orange Revolution, everybody was so hopeful that everything in Ukraine would go smoothly and toward democracy. Unfortunately, that did not happen.

What has happened in the past few months is truly tragic, not only because people died. It is tragic when people die, but it is also tragic that the government used force against people. It was not only the police and the riot police. The government ordered snipers to go on the roof and shoot people randomly. That is something that should not be happening in our times. That is why we should be concerned about what is going to happen next.

Today, we have good news. The new government of national unity was formed. The young journalist, the lady who was beaten up and left to die, is part of that group. A gentleman, whose name I think is Mr. Bulatov, who was also beaten up and had to be brought to a hospital in Lithuania, is also part of that group.

Ukraine will need a lot of help and guidance. There is truly hard work in front of all Ukrainians.

I would also like to quote the next lines from the national anthem:

[Member spoke in Ukrainian and provided the following translation:]

Our enemies will vanish like dew in the sun, and we should rule, brothers, in a free land of our own.

[English]

That is the important part: “our own”. The Ukrainian people do not want to be ruled by anybody anymore.

Ukraine has a big neighbour, but unfortunately, Russia is not democratic, which is the main problem. It is very hard to be hopeful when one's neighbour is trying to go back to Soviet times.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Development]

Mr. Chair, we have heard many times tonight about the size of the Ukrainian population here in Canada. I believe there are 1.3 million people in Canada who trace their ancestry directly back to Ukraine. We have even had some colleagues here in the House tonight identify as having immediate Ukrainian family.

I wonder if my colleague could speak to the participation of people who are Ukrainian Canadians who can speak on the situation in Ukraine. Does he think there is any room for us to mobilize that group of people here to help bring democracy and peace in Ukraine?

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have a lot of contact with Ukrainian Canadians, with the Canadian Ukrainian Congress, and with people who organize and come to the events. They were reacting to what was going on in Ukraine very rapidly.

I understand that the Canadian delegation now going to Ukraine and led by our Minister of Foreign Affairs includes representatives from the Canadian Ukrainian community. I am sure they will be a great help in guiding us in future actions toward Ukraine.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the hon. member for participating in this debate. I had the privilege of travelling with him when we were monitoring the election. We were enclaved together; then we went to opposite locations and ended up together again in Lviv.

I wonder if the member would like to share with us in this take note debate his experiences on the ground; the conviviality and friendship that I am sure he found in the communities he went to in Ukraine, the same as I found in the communities I went to.

I can certainly speak to how profoundly committed I found the Ukrainians to be in getting out to vote. I think it was pretty clear even from the monitoring reports, from the European Commission, and so forth that where the corruption probably occurred was before and then after the voting. Certainly, I saw people turning out in hospitals, mental institutions, even in prisons as well as the suburbs. There were women with baby carriages, elderly people, and some people in wheelchairs wanting to participate in the democratic process.

I wonder if the member could share his experience there and whether that might also speak to the drive we are now seeing in Ukraine to actually form a solid, democratic, human rights and rule-of-law respecting nation.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank my colleague opposite for her question, and yes, we did travel to observe an election. We went to different places, but I had a similar experience on the ground there.

To answer her question directly, the great potential Ukraine has is its people. They are well educated and very hard workers. Even if the economic data presented today by different people is not that good, the potential the country has is enormous. If these people are given a chance, they will turn the country around in a relatively short period of time. I am truly positive of this and very optimistic.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the hon. member for Mississauga East—Cooksville for quoting Ukrainian poetry. I wish I were able to quote Adam Mickiewicz in response, but I am not that advanced.

The next line of the poem Zapovit, which the member quoted, is:

[Member spoke in Ukrainian and provided the following translation:]

Sprinkle freedom with the blood of the enemy.

[English]

Let us sincerely hope and pray Ukraine does not go there.

I would like to ask the hon. member for Mississauga East—Cooksville to comment on the Polish experience, because Poland, in addition to being a tremendous ally of Ukraine, and Polish Canadians, in addition to being tremendous allies of Ukrainian Canadians here, has the experience of building a democracy at a time when democratic institutions were weak or nonexistent and building it in the shadow of a hostile neighbour.

Are there any lessons from Poland for Ukraine today?

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think there is a difference between the two countries. Poland, fortunately, had a tradition of democracy. It was a country before it was partitioned and was so as well before the First and Second World Wars.

The Ukrainians did not have that advantage. That is why it is probably more difficult for them to do it, but the great achievement of Ukrainians is the fact that no one dreamed of democracy 25 year ago, yet they have a free country and it should be up to them what they do with their future. I am optimistic that they will turn the country around with our help and the help of others.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Mr. Chair, first I would like to express my deepest condolences and sorrow for those heroes who lost their lives or were badly injured in Ukraine, and for their families. I join with others in my great concern for the ongoing crisis in Ukraine. The true price of freedoms and democratic values is paid too many times with the blood and lives of patriots.

I have visited Ukraine 10 times and been there for eight elections. I will take us back and reiterate some of the points I have seen progressing on this. This is the second time in 10 years that we have seen what I would call a revolution. There was the Orange Revolution, and now we have the Euromaidan revolution. The tactic then was the same as it is now with the same actors and the same players. It was Yanukovych and Putin both times. Yanukovych was removed both times.

The tactics at that time included ballot-box stuffing. I was at a prison in southern Ukraine and have pictures of an empty ballot box brought into a voting area and a bag of ballots. I have the actual picture of it. It was incredible. At that time, there was no consideration or thought that they were doing anything really wrong. As a matter of fact, no one in the area said anything until the person who brought in the ballot box saw me standing there, whereupon he quickly ducked into a corner and put a coat over it. Of the 20 other people who were in that area, no one said anything. It was just another act of the day.

Things have changed since then. Now in the current circumstances after the election of 2010, we have the same actor, but one who now knows how to keep the cheating invisible. They know enough now not to do it visibly like that, where people can take pictures and report it.

During the Orange Revolution in 2004, when I stood on stage in front of 500,000 people, I felt very comfortable being there because I saw the cheating and could directly speak about how their vote was stolen.

After the 2010 election, he was duly accepted by the international community. However, during that election the opposition, Yushchenko and Tymoshenko, split the vote. That was really the problem they had; they could not get together. They lost because they could not bring their factions together. All they did was fight among themselves, which was very unfortunate.

Now Yanukovych is in power. What does he do? He drops all of his promises and commitments, and changes the constitution so that he can have even more power to do more wrong, against the people's wishes. This of course led to Euromaidan and to the beginning of the unrest. The second problem was that the demonstrators were fewer in number. It was said that they were going to disappear and tire of demonstrating, but he could not wait. He had to send in his thugs, who split skulls and spilled blood. That brought out the veterans from Afghanistan who were there to protect their children. That still could have been negated. He still could have made concessions and maybe slowed that down, but as we all know, he accelerated his hideous crimes to the point where he eventually brought out his snipers. That was just revolting to the entire world. He became a pariah to the world, and that made it very easy for them to remove him as a president, which is the way it should be.

Where we do we go from here? We are into an election now. What can we do? Some comments have been made here and ideas suggested. There are a number of things we can do, but certainly most Canadians here in this room, and I would say on all sides of the House, are committed to doing what we can to bring this issue forward and return Ukraine to being a country with the international status it deserves, and shall have some day.

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank my colleague for his speech. I have heard him speak about Ukraine several times. I know that this issue is very important to him. I am always very moved by his remarks. He personally witnessed the Orange Revolution when he was in Ukraine in 2004. I have always been deeply moved by that, and I am pleased that Canadian parliamentarians can represent us at times that are so important and so vital to Ukraine.

I would like to ask him a question that is similar to the one I asked another hon. member earlier. One of my favourite issues when it comes to the development of democracy in Ukraine involves making it easier for young people to obtain student visas. This would allow young Ukrainians to come to Canada and see for themselves what type of country Canada is and what type of democracy we have. Then, they could return home to help their people and contribute to the democratization of their country.

I would like to hear what my colleague has to say about that. Does he also think that this is a good idea?

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Mr. Chair, I do. I think it will be part of what we can do to help. We can see it from the interns who have been coming here to our offices. I have had an intern from the Ukraine for 10 to 12 years now.

I might add that when I returned to Euromaidan and spoke to the crowd there, I was ushered around the square by various interns who have been here in offices in this country. Without their help, I might have had some problems, particularly as my Ukrainian is non-existent.

It worked out very well. We contacted the former intern from my office before I left. I might add, I went on my own nickel. It was very good to have him help us out. Absolutely, I would encourage all parliamentarians to please invite interns to work in their offices if they have not had one previously.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Chair, I want to pick up on the real need, and we hear a lot about this, to see the type of forward direction we are seeing today in Ukraine.

There is a great deal of interest by Canadians in ensuring that Canada has a strong delegation of observers there at the end of May. Could the member share some of his personal thoughts? We hear about the potential number of observers. Obviously the greater the number, the larger the potential impact we will have. There are organizations out there that would like to be able to play a role in assisting.

Does the member believe the government has a sense of the number of observers it would like to send over for this critical election in May?