House of Commons Hansard #87 of the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was cbc.

Topics

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Dany Morin NDP Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for my colleague about CBC as a tool for bringing families together.

My father grew up watching a beautiful show called Les belles histoires des pays d'en haut, which reflects our reality and our past as Quebeckers. When they rebroadcast the show, I sat next to my father and watched it with him. I talked to him about how he grew up, about how things were for him and his father, my grandfather. I think that this type of show, which was broadcast on Radio-Canada between 1956 and 1970, played an incredible role.

Could my colleague talk about other shows that had an impact on Canadian and Quebec families? What does he think?

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Pierre Dionne Labelle NDP Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for his question and for what he shared.

Claude-Henri Grignon, who wrote Un homme et son péché and the entire series that followed, Les belles histoires des pays d'en haut, is sort of like our Pagnol. The show is set in a small village with archetypal characters, villains, stories and gossip. He created a universe that was a lot like Pagnol's.

I am pleased that young people are enjoying the show and its legacy. It is part of our history. Of course, there is a romantic aspect to it, but there are many parts of the series that reflect what our ancestors experienced. I am pleased to hear that the member enjoyed it.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Isabelle Morin NDP Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to rise in the House today to defend our public broadcaster because I believe that we should be talking about this institution. I would have preferred to be talking about it in different circumstances. This time, we are talking about it because there has been another wave of Conservative cuts.

I will reread the motion moved in the House by my colleague from Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher:

That, in the opinion of the House, CBC/Radio-Canada plays a key role in informing, entertaining and uniting Canadians and is today weakened because of the many rounds of cuts over the past 20 years, and calls on the government to: (a) reverse the $45 million in cuts for 2014-2015 in Budget 2012; and (b) provide adequate, stable, multi-year funding to the public broadcaster so that it can fulfill its mandate.

I would like to start by talking about CBC's mandate. The Conservatives have been telling us all day that advertising revenues are down, and my colleague just asked if a public broadcaster should have advertising. That is not what today's debate is about, but I want to discuss the mandate. We have a law governing public broadcasters in Canada. If the law requires CBC/Radio-Canada to fulfill a mandate, it must be given the means to do so. It is not about whether the advertising brings in enough money. The government is not giving the broadcaster the means to fulfill the mandate conferred on it by law. That is the saddest part of all this.

These $130 million in cuts will have a direct impact. For example, these cuts mean that funding for the CBC will be $29 per Canadian in 2014-15. This means that $29 of my taxes will go to CBC/Radio-Canada.

A very interesting table by Nordicity compared countries and found that the average contribution to public broadcasters per inhabitant is $82. In Norway it is $180; in Switzerland it is $164; in Germany it is $124; and in Denmark it is $116. Some countries contribute a bit less than that: France and Belgium contribute $68. The only two countries who contribute less than us to their public broadcaster are New Zealand and the United States. I find that unbelievable. I want to congratulate CBC/Radio-Canada, because with funding of just $29 per inhabitant, it still manages to provide high-quality news and content in French and English.

We are giving the CBC less and less money. In 2012, $82.4 million was cut from English services, $42.3 million was cut from French services and $4.7 million was cut from corporate services. That resulted in the elimination of 657 full-time jobs: 573 immediate losses and others to come in the future, including 35 positions at the news service.

As my colleagues have said, the information we get from the CBC is very important. It teaches us about current events and politics, and it tells us what is going on around the world and at home. I do not want to criticize other broadcasters, but the CBC has a standard. If there are not enough producers, investigators and researchers to find all of this information, we will end up in a black hole where the information is lower quality and is increasingly less relevant and insightful.

I want to talk about the cuts that could have a tangible effect on my constituents. The CBC has cancelled two cooking shows and one original series. It has made a 50% cut to regional live music productions.

At Radio-Canada, a cut targets two journalists and one producer of the program Enquête. As we know, this program in Quebec was the first to shed light on the whole saga of public financing in the construction industry. Without Enquête, there would have been no Charbonneau commission. That commission is currently shedding light on many disturbing facts in our province. However, it is the quality and thoroughness of Enquête that made this possible.

There will be fewer episodes of the show Quelle histoire!, which is produced in Ottawa-Gatineau, fewer musical programs on Radio-Canada, and fewer original episodes for flagship shows. Moreover, nostalgia series, presented between 3 p.m. and 4 p.m., will be replaced by an American show. This is called americanization.

Radio-Canada reflects our identity. It talks about us, about our uniqueness, about the Quebec reality, about the French fact. Now, we will find ourselves with yet another American show. This means fewer jobs for Canadian actors and producers.

The government wants to keep the economy going. After reducing Radio-Canada's budget, it goes without saying that jobs had to be cut. They must have figured that it would be cheaper to broadcast an American show. We are losing yet another part of our identity here.

The end of the sport news in the evening is tragic. On the radio, the show Par 4 chemins is being eliminated, as are La tête ailleurs and Culture physique. We will no longer have a public broadcaster that talks about amateur sport. We will no longer have that.

All these cuts are in addition to others included in budget 2012: massive cuts to the service provided by Radio Canada International, an expansion plan for regional stations put on hold, and the shelving of the development of a website, Kids' CBC. This is very sad. We are heading into a situation where CBC/Radio Canada will no longer control its content. This is what is happening.

Earlier, my colleague told us about the show Les belles histoires des pays d'en haut. I met a woman from my riding who works at CBC/Radio-Canada. Unfortunately, I cannot name her for obvious reasons. She told me that they were showing Les belles histoires des pays d'en haut because it is cheaper than current original content or production. Those are the facts. CBC/Radio-Canada has less money. Consequently, it shows programs that cost less.

Why do we always see the same people on CBC? There are some popular actors and some not-so-popular ones, but we always see the same people because they cannot take the risk of trying to find something new. Last fall, I watched Série noire on TOU.TV. It was an incredible series, new and different. I told my friends about it, and some of them liked it while others did not.

The woman I mentioned earlier told me that Radio-Canada was not sure if it was going to go ahead with the series because it had to consider the ratings and advertising; otherwise, it could not afford to do the series. The number of stations is increasing. There is more demand for advertising. We know what advertising is like these days. I see it on the Internet. Of course I fast forward through the ads. I do not watch them.

The Conservatives are saying that there is less advertising so they need to make cuts. Clearly, it will not work if they are relying solely on advertising. There is no doubt about that. CBC/Radio-Canada has original content. It is defined by the fact that it does not carry all of the same type of shows that private broadcasters do.

Of course, that may mean that it reaches smaller pockets of the population, meaning lower ratings, but is that a reason not to fund it? The government seems to want to move to a free market, and there are many things that have already been lost because of that. For example, there is less culture in our country and fewer shows for young people. We are moving toward mass Americanization, and no one seems to care what will happen.

I would like to talk about a letter that a Montreal resident, Guylaine Bombardier, wrote to my colleague who moved this motion. I just love what she wrote. She said that, as a francophone citizen of Quebec, she truly believed that, without CBC, the health of our democracy and our culture would not be the same. She added that, despite the many constraints associated with competition, which should not be a factor for a public service, CBC is doing a better job than any other broadcaster of helping her understand the society she lives in. She also said that the unreasonable cuts to CBC worry—

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

Time has run out.

Questions and comments. The hon. member for Mississauga—Streetsville.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Butt Conservative Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have been sitting here this afternoon listening carefully, and I almost thought for a few minutes that I was sitting in a funeral listening to a bunch of eulogies.

CBC is on the air as we speak. CBC will be on the air tomorrow. CBC will be on the air for decades to come. One of the reasons is that Canadian taxpayers are providing a subsidy to the CBC/Radio-Canada of almost $1 billion a year. That is a lot of money. That is because this government is committed to ensuring that the CBC continues to operate.

I ask the member to comment on a quote from Hubert Lacroix, who is the president of CBC, when he said:

When we consider all of that I think that the people who watch CBC-Radio-Canada will tell you very clearly that we discharge our mandate very well. If we judge by our ratings and the relevance we have in their eyes, it's spectacular. It has never been as high. Let's keep that in mind

I would like the member to comment on that.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5 p.m.

NDP

Isabelle Morin NDP Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

His analogy is very odd. I will respond with another analogy. When a person has a leg amputated, he can still walk, but with one heck of a limp. That is what is happening. That is what the government is doing.

Yes, CBC/Radio-Canada will keep operating, but it will have to make do with less. That is what we are saying. We are saying that the corporation needs stable, multi-year funding. That is what we are asking for. I wanted to reread my colleague's motion, but I do not have it.

My colleague quoted Hubert Lacroix, who was appointed by the Conservatives. Monday morning, on the air, Mr. Lacroix referred to my colleague as “the infamous Pierre Nantel”. He had a particular way of talking about my colleague that made me wonder whether he might actually be quite partisan. I am sorry, but I will not base my opinion of the CBC on Mr. Lacroix.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

As you know, referring to another MP by name in the House is not allowed.

Questions and comments. The hon. member for Saint-Lambert.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Sadia Groguhé NDP Saint-Lambert, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech.

I would say that this is a death knell. It is clear that when funding is cut, when our public broadcaster does not have the room to be as eclectic as possible, to reach as broad a range of television viewers as possible and connect with the public, then the public broadcaster is in trouble. That is the position the Conservatives are putting the broadcaster in. When budgets are cut then there will obviously be a negative impact.

That being said, a public broadcaster has its purpose. It is the primary and central tool of the public. The Conservatives are losing sight of that, as they have done with other crown corporations. We see that they are at it again with our public broadcaster and that is not right. This also has adverse effects on our democracy.

Can my colleague share her thoughts on this?

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Isabelle Morin NDP Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for the question. I have not yet had the chance to talk about this.

Since we arrived here, we have seen this government constantly attack public services and crown corporations, such as VIA Rail and Canada Post. We saw the cuts that were made at Canada Post and more cuts are being made. This is a slow march to privatization. The last big wave of privatization came from Mr. Mulroney, who privatized 23 crown corporations during the 10 years he was in power. I wonder whether our Prime Minister thought to himself that he does not have a lot of time left and that he has to redouble his efforts during his final year. I think this is unfortunate.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

We will resume debate, but I will let the hon. member for Mississauga—Streetsville know that there are approximately seven minutes remaining in the time permitted for debate on the question this afternoon, so I will give him the normal signal as we get close to that time.

The hon. member for Mississauga—Streetsville.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Butt Conservative Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

Mr. Speaker, thank you very much for the guidance on the amount of time that is left. I do appreciate it. I will say a few things and then there might be an opportunity for questions and comments. I will play it by ear, depending on how animated I get in the discussion today.

I am kind of disappointed in the opposition parties today. One of the reasons I am disappointed is that there is a responsibility to remember that we live in the 21st century, not 1950. I heard a lot of opposition members refer to television shows that families watched back in 1950 and 1960, but the last time I looked at my calendar, it was 2014.

The world in broadcasting radio and TV has dramatically changed. A few members on this side of the House know quite a bit about that, and they have spoken very eloquently about the fact that our radio and television system has dramatically changed.

We have hundreds of channels that people can watch on their TVs. Canadians are choosing what they want to watch in many different ways and for many different reasons. We have excellent coverage of services throughout all of Canada, including northern and rural parts of Canada, which even a few years ago did not have great services. Many of those communities have excellent services today, with a lot of options.

However, we are talking specifically about the CBC/Radio-Canada today. It is an organization of which I am proud and it has been strongly supported by this government since we came into office in 2006. In fact, we recognize the excellent contributions the CBC, as our national public broadcaster, makes in Canadian society. We know that some remote aboriginal and official language minority communities rely on the CBC for their main way of having television and radio communicated to them. We respect that and we have continued to support that as a government.

The CBC is mandated to inform, enlighten, and entertain Canadian audiences and to offer distinctively Canadian programming that contributes to the exchange and flow of cultural expression. That programming is expected to reflect Canada and all its regions to national and regional audiences, while serving the needs of the regions.

The CBC must strive to produce the programming that is of equal quality in English and French, as well as reflect the different needs of official language communities and English and French linguistic minorities. As well, CBC/Radio-Canada is mandated to reflect the multicultural and multinational nature of Canada while contributing to a shared consciousness and identity.

The Broadcasting Act guarantees the CBC a degree of independence freedom as an arm's-length Crown corporation. This guarantee is based on the significance and importance of journalistic freedom in our democracy. Our government continues to work with the CBC in a manner that respects these independence principles and allows it to fulfill its cultural mandate.

The recent situation at the CBC is due to business decisions made by the corporation. It receives substantial funding to meet its mandate under the Broadcasting Act, and it is up to the CBC to provide programming in French and English that Canadians want. The choices in programs and services are made independently from government involvement.

Each year we provide financial support to the CBC totalling more than $1 billion to deliver on its mandate and its core services. It is an incredibly significant amount of federal funding. In fact, it is the most funding that we provide to any federal cultural or heritage crown corporation.

CBC/Radio-Canada is facing the same challenges as many other broadcasters: fragmentation of audiences, new content consumption methods, increased competition, and the list goes on. All broadcasters are striving to adapt to this constantly changing new reality. Large groups are being formed, new strategies are being tested, and broadcasters are looking for new ways to keep audiences. CBC/Radio-Canada is no exception, and must produce programming that Canadians actually want to watch.

With respect to the opposition motion, it does fly in the face of some of the experts who have commented on the current status.

Alex Levasseur, president of the Syndicat des communications de Radio-Canada, said that any eventual cuts will not be the result of a federal action.

France Belisle, who is the director of communications and public relations for CBC/Radio-Canada, said:

The problem is the advertising market, which is in decline.

These are realities that the CBC, like other broadcasters throughout North America and the world, is now facing. These are decisions that need to be made to ensure the long-term viability of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.

I believe I will be the last speaker on this topic, so before I sit down I just want to reiterate that all families in Canada cherish the CBC. We each have individual programs and services that we enjoy. To make sure that the CBC continues to be viable for the long term, there are structural changes and decisions that it will have to make, but this government stands with the CBC. We stand with public support in financing the CBC, and we wish the CBC 100 more years of success in this great country of Canada.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

It being 5:15 p.m., it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the business of supply.

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

All those opposed will please say nay.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

In my opinion, the nays have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Call in the members.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

NDP

Sadia Groguhé NDP Saint-Lambert, QC

Mr. Speaker, the NDP would like the division to be deferred until Monday, May 26, at the expiry of the time provided for government orders.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

Accordingly the recorded division stands deferred until Monday, May 26, at the expiry of the time provided for government orders.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON

Mr. Speaker, I believe if you seek it, you will find unanimous consent to see the clock as 5:30 p.m.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

Is it agreed?

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-CanadaBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

The House resumed from March 6 consideration of the motion that Bill C-555, An Act respecting the Marine Mammal Regulations (seal fishery observation licence), be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Marine Mammal RegulationsPrivate Members' Business

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

The hon. member for Manicouagan has five minutes to finish his comments. The hon. member for Manicouagan.