Debates of May 15th, 2014

Business of the House

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, let me start by sharing a couple of sentiments with my friend.

First, on this side of the House—speaking for myself at least, and many others, including the Prime Minister—we congratulate the Montreal Canadiens on their success and wish them all the best in the next round, where I am optimistic Canadians will have much to look forward to.

Second, I have to agree with the member about the fact that what we saw today was a preview of what we would see if the NDP were ever to win government. We saw a grilling where the highlight was the question of NDP corruption and abuse of taxpayers' dollars. That is what we could expect to see if the NDP were ever to become government, and because Canadians know that, we will never have to fear it happening.

That abuse of taxpayers' funds goes beyond the question of breaking rules and not following rules. It goes to the whole NDP philosophy that taxpayers' money is there for them, they should get more of it, and they should spend it in every way possible. That is what the NDP is all about.

We in the Conservative Party, on the other hand, have an approach that is focused on a productive, hard-working, and orderly Parliament that respects taxpayers' dollars. As a result, we will continue with our agenda.

I will note the highlight today from the NDP. The NDP was defending itself on charges of improper spending and improperly using taxpayers' dollars for partisan activity. The member did not point out that the NDP's positive agenda was what they were proposing today in the House of Commons on one of the rare days when NDP members actually get to put forward their own policy proposals. It is funny how he says, “That is not the highlight”. I agree with him, because when they do get in power, they will have very little to advocate for.

That said, we on this side do follow the rules, and the rules require that we continue with the NDP opposition day motion for the balance of the day.

Tomorrow we will start the second reading debate of Bill C-27, the veterans hiring act, before we return to our constituencies for a week.

Upon our return we will roll up our sleeves and work hard for Canadians in the final sittings until the summer.

On Monday, May 26, we will consider Bill C-18, which is the agricultural growth act.

On Tuesday, May 27, we will resume the second reading debate on Vanessa's law, Bill C-17, the protecting Canadians from unsafe drugs act.

That will be followed by Bill C-32, the victims bill of rights act at second reading.

The next day will see us continue our productive, hard-working, and orderly agenda by returning to the second reading debate on Bill C-24, the strengthening Canadian Citizenship act. As hon. members might recall, the New Democrats proposed a second reading amendment to block the passage of this important bill.

On Thursday, May 29, we will continue the second reading debate on Bill C-22, the Energy Safety and Security Act. After that debate concludes, we will consider Bill C-6, the Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, at report stage. Finally, we will consider Bill C-10, the Tackling Contraband Tobacco Act, at report stage and third reading on Friday, May 30.

As you can see, Mr. Speaker, we still have a lot of work ahead of us this spring.

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-Canada

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

When the House last took up the question, the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister had 15 minutes remaining for his remarks.

The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, before question period, I was talking a bit about the impact of the economic downturn of 2008, about the decision-making that went into this government's policies that were meant to create jobs and opportunity, and about the fact that this government continued to invest in arts and culture. As has been pointed out by many of the members opposite and members on this side of the House, arts and culture is a significant part of the Canadian economy, responsible for thousands of jobs and billions of dollars in economic activity, and that is why this government continued to invest in arts and culture. We are one of the only governments that did that, and we did it despite the fact that many opposition members voted against those investments. Members will also recall that as part of that, we did provide significant investments into the CBC.

Let us put into context the type of investments that Canadians are making into the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.

Over $1 billion is how Canadian taxpayers support the CBC across this country. Some members in the opposition would say that is not a lot of money. I would counter that by saying that Canadians work very hard. In my riding, my community has done very well despite the downturn, but people work very hard in my community. They are up very early in the morning. A good portion of my riding is rural. The farmers are up at 5:00 in the morning. They are hard at work all day, and they come home very late at night. All they ask from their government—their members of Parliament, councillors, and elected officials at all levels—is that they will do their best to use their money wisely, that they will not waste money, that they ensure that the investments they make are investments that are good not only for the community and the province but for the entire country. That is why this government has continuously made decisions to help support CBC to the tune of $1 billion. As I mentioned before question period, we reversed a lot of the unilateral cuts that were made by the previous Liberal government.

We understand on this side of the House the importance of the CBC to different areas of the country. We know that in some rural parts of the country, in aboriginal communities, and in official language minority communities, the CBC is an extraordinarily important venue for entertainment and for information. It is not just about hockey; we get that. That is why this government has continued to offer that support, and Canadian taxpayers have appreciated that support.

However, in the context of returning to a balanced budget, we asked all our partners to participate. Despite that, the CBC has continued to receive over $1 billion in funding from Canadian taxpayers.

In terms of the impact that arts and culture has on the Canadian culture, before question period I talked about the fact that it is not just about the actors, not just about the front-line people we see whom Canadians are more aware of. It is everything that goes into it. A number of films and TV shows are filmed in and around my community, and what I am most impressed about is all of the people who help support the industry. It is also about carpenters, electricians, the security guards who secure the set, hairdressers, and makeup people. It is all of these people behind the scenes who help support this industry and are responsible for the billions of dollars in economic activity.

I had the great opportunity to visit Cinespace, in the riding of the member for Etobicoke—Lakeshore. It is an exceptional film studio where hundreds of people are employed. They are doing exceptional work. It is a studio that Canadians should be proud of. Some of the leading films are filmed there. TV shows are filmed there. It is competitive not only across Canada but throughout North America. It is known for being one of the premier sites to film, not just because of its location in the riding of the member for Etobicoke—Lakeshore, but because of the supports that this government has put in place to help support arts and culture.

When I had the opportunity to visit this studio with the member for Etobicoke—Lakeshore, one of the things the people there recognized was the fact that the government had helped support the industry through tax cuts. We are putting money back into the hands of people, into the pockets of our small, medium and large business creators. They recognize how important that is. I am proud of the fact that we were able to do that.

When we talk more broadly on the impact of arts and culture, I look at my own riding. We have a wonderful community radio station called WhiStle Radio where a team of volunteers works very hard to put quality programming on the air every day. It is a station of which I am very proud. We also have the Markham guild of artists and the Lemonville Group of Artists. We have Latcham Gallery, where my children attend summer camps and where there are a number of displays of local arts and crafts. Arts and culture is very important, not only to me but to all Canadians. We get that.

However, when we talk about the CBC specifically and some of the challenges it faces right now, it is quite clear that there has been a bit of a different dichotomy for the CBC. Yes, it has lost Hockey Night in Canada. That is no surprise to anyone. It was responsible for a tremendous amount of revenue for the CBC, revenue which it has now lost.

I also had the opportunity to speak with individuals from Rogers. They were successful in obtaining the rights to broadcast Hockey Night in Canada. One of the things they talked about was the amount of money they were investing to help support the broadcast of Hockey Night in Canada for Canadians from coast to coast to coast. They are spending millions of dollars on new studios, on new talent, and on the people who help support the broadcast to put it on the air. Rogers is a private company. Hundreds of millions of dollars in economic activity will be generated by this contract for Rogers.

However, that means something different for CBC. CBC will have to do what others do, and that is try to focus on finding programs that excite Canadians and that will bring Canadians to its channel so it can generate advertising revenue. It cannot just continuously look to the Canadian taxpayer and say that it does not need to have any accountability for the dollars it spends because it will be up to the Canadian taxpayer to cover that shortfall.

When I speak to people at the CBC, they do not see it the same way as many members of the opposition see it. They tell me they can compete, that they have the tools to compete and that they are making the decisions they need to make so they can still be relevant for Canadians across the country, so rural Canadians can have access to the information and high quality programming that some of us in urban Canada have. They understand they have a role to play, that they have to provide services in English and French across the country. They understand that is part of their mandate. They understand Canadians expect them to be in communities. They understand Canadians expect them to do things that maybe we do not expect from our private broadcasters. They also understand the fact that they are given incredible support to do that. I come back again to the fact that it is over $1 billion, which is a lot of money.

We will continue on this side of the House to support the CBC. We will continue to support arts and culture in general because we understand the importance of it to our Canadian economy. However, what we will not do is what the opposition motion has asked us to do, and that is to set aside accountability, set aside the fact that Canadians work very hard for their money and want us to use their money in the best possible way. It is not just for the CBC; it is for all, across government.

I am very excited by the fact our government will be the first government in the G7 that will return to a balanced budget. This is very exciting for Canadian taxpayers. That will provide us extra resources so we can continue to secure and provide investments for health care and some of the social programs on which Canadians have come to rely. We will continue to make investments across the country in infrastructure so we can create even more jobs and opportunity. It will provide us extra money so we can continue to make investments in our museums.

I know during question period, there was a discussion about the Canadian Museum of History. What an exciting project that is. It came with a $25 million investment from this government. This was on top of the other investments we made into all of our national museums through Canada's economic action plan.

Across the country, museums were given extra resources so they could better meet the needs of Canadians. One of the exciting things about the Canadian Museum of History is that it will tie together communities across the country. Large and small museums will be able to access the collections of the Canadian Museum of History.

Another thing ties into this. I really like what CBC is doing, because it understands it also has to shift. It has become a lot more aggressive online. It has a new music portal, where Canadians can go to access music.

We all know that Canadians are finding different ways and avenues to seek entertainment. It is not just the old way of plugging it in, putting up an antenna, and then it is there. Canadians have iPads and computers, and they want to be able to receive their content on the go. The CBC has recognized that and is making investments in those areas to bring it to more Canadians communities, families, and individuals.

We also recognize, and the CBC has done a really good job of this, the importance of some of the historical collections or archives that the CBC has on hand. There is a treasure chest of old reports from the CBC, which it has made available online to Canadians. That is very good news, not only for the CBC but for Canadians.

I recognize and applaud the fact that the CBC has taken it upon itself to not only be the guardian of some of Canada's broadcasting history, but also the guardian of arts and culture in parts of the country where they might not necessarily have access, like we do in urban Canada.

Again, I want to commend the CBC for the initiatives it has taken. We understand there are challenges and that is why we will continue to support the CBC. The broadcasting industry in general has faced a lot of challenges as we move from somewhat of an old school-type of business model to a new business model, where Canadians expect and demand to have services in different ways.

The CBC is moving in that direction, as all Canadian broadcasters are. If we look at where Canadians were a number of years ago and where our broadcasting industry is today, Canadians should have every reason to be extraordinarily proud of how far we have come and what we are accomplishing.

It is not only our artists or our musicians, it is our directors, actors and the people who support them. Canadians are among the best in the world. We have nothing to apologize for. We should be proud of all the people who work in this industry. We should be proud of the fact that arts and culture is so important to the Canadian economy. We should be proud of the fact that as a Parliament, we have supported that industry even in downturns and as the economy was moving in a different direction.

This government made the decision, unlike previous Liberal government that attacked funding for arts and culture, to go the opposite route and increase funding and support for our museums, radio, TV and broadcasting industry and our musicians. I am very proud of the fact we have done that.

I know the CBC will succeed if we give it the tools it needs, which is what we have done by giving it $1 billion. It has been around for a long time. It understands what it has to do to succeed.

The CBC is not asking for Parliament to tell it what to do. In fact, it is just the opposite. It values and cherishes its independence as an organization. What it wants Parliament to do is get out of the way and let it do the work it has to do so it can live up to the mandate it has to provide quality services for both French and English across the country and meet the needs of all Canadians.

Since we have been in government, we have guaranteed that the CBC has that independence, and that it has the tools and resources to meet that mandate.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, although the government talks about the independence of the CBC, it appoints the president, the CEO and all the board members. Then the government says that the CBC is doing all of this.

The CBC was started in the height of the Depression by a Conservative government because it believed it needed to create an important national institution. The member says that the position of the motion is extreme. The motion asks for two things: the $45 million in cuts from 2014-15 budget to be reinstated; and to provide adequate and stable funding to the public broadcaster so it can fulfill its mandate.

Why is the member against that, if he actually believes what he just said? This a national institution created by a Conservative government in the heights of the depression when money was an object but the importance of the CBC was recognized.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member is quite right. The Conservatives have always been the guardians of Canadian arts and culture. This has been a hallmark of Conservative governments since the beginning. That is why we created the CBC. We understood how important it was to connect Canadians from coast to coast to coast, urban and rural, French and English. It has done a spectacular job in doing that.

We also went further. As I said, when the recession hit, we funded our museums. We funded arts and culture. We increased tax credits. We gave additional funding to the CBC so it could expand Canadian television productions. The results have been quite spectacular. I am proud of what the CBC has accomplished, not only since its inception but through this economic downturn.

When the member talks about investments, I think most Canadians would appreciate the fact that a billion dollars goes in to support this mandate, which is a very large amount of money. That is a decision we have made.

As I have said, we have increased funding. We have supported the CBC and we will continue to do that because it has a very important mandate.

I appreciate the fact that the member highlighted how important it was that the Conservatives actually created this and have protected arts and culture since coming into government.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have a quote for my hon. colleague. This is what the then minister of Canadian Heritage, who today is the Minister of Industry, had to say on CBC News in Vancouver, on May 3, 2011, the morning before the Conservative Party's re-election. He stated, “We have said that we will maintain or increase support for the CBC. That is our platform and we have said that before and we will commit to that...”.

How can the member explain that budget 2012 took a hatchet to Canada's national broadcaster, slashing it by $115 million? How can he explain this broken commitment once again from the Conservatives?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member chooses to ignore the fact that it was this government that increased funding to the CBC substantially, having to reverse the cuts that the Liberals made to the CBC when they were balancing their budgets on the backs of the provinces and individuals, which I think was $457 million. I could be wrong on the amount, but I know it was to the tune of $400 million worth of cuts.

We took an opposite approach. We decided we had to protect arts and culture in our country. That is why we increased funding to arts and culture across Canada.

The CBC recognizes the fact that it has lost some important programming that brings advertising revenue in. I trust it will be able to make the types of decisions that will allow it to continue to meet its mandate in English and French throughout Canada. It has the independence to do that. It has proven in the past it can do it, and I suspect it will achieve that goal.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for mentioning the fine work being done in Canada and in my city of Toronto, especially when it comes to film and television production. He also highlighted in his speech the fact that the world of radio and TV broadcasting, content, creation, and film and television production is dynamic and competitive. People have so many channels, so many different platforms to choose from, which is creating depressed prices when it comes to advertising. Therefore, all broadcasters, not just the CBC but private broadcasters also, have to make adjustments.

Would the member comment on some of the adjustments that private broadcasters are making? What are some of the adjustments the CBC also has to make to stay current with what the rest of the world is doing?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member is quite correct. Obviously, the world of broadcasting has changed.

I am able to listen to my community radio station on my BlackBerry from my office in Ottawa. It is a small community radio station that reaches about 40,000 people, but through the Internet I am able to listen to it and ensure that I know what is going on in my community.

In particular, CBC is also taking a look at other avenues. Its music site allows Canadians to see the latest in Canadian music. It has put a lot more of its collection online. It has put some of the historical material it has online.

The member is quite correct in the fact that private small, medium and large business creators, particularly in this industry, have had to make adjustments as the dollar has changed and as competition has increased. Groups such as Cinespace in his riding have done that very well. It has succeeded and is among the best.

I commend not only the member for his hard work in supporting that job creator in his riding but also that studio for the exceptional work it does. It makes Canadians proud, not only in his community but around the world.

[Bruce Hyer, Green, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member talked about $1 billion. A billion dollars per capita today is a dime a day, 10¢ a day or a little less.

We are not talking about money. Money is not the problem. We do have monies in revenues to the government, but the CBC is not the problem. The problem is that we have less than half the large corporate tax rate that the United States has with no criteria at all for job creation or investment.

The Conservatives are doing away with things that have always been an important part of Canada: VIA Rail and postal service. Health services will be next, and environmental protection.

The problem is that it is not about the dime a day. It is about data, science, evidence, and opinions that disagree with the Conservative ideology. Let us increase that dime a day to maybe even a rousing 20¢ a day per Canadian. My constituents in Thunder Bay—Superior North would be willing to pay a lot more to maintain the high quality, especially of CBC Radio.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this is the problem with the opposition. That question itself, I could actually use that question. I wish I could broadcast that to all Canadians, so they could truly understand the difference between the opposition and the government.

To them, money is meaningless. It is nothing. It does not matter because it is other people's money, but to the people in my riding who work hard, day in and day out, to put money in their pockets so that they can invest in their future and their children's future, invest in their business, and put a little aside for their retirement, an extra dime means a lot.

We are fighting an election in Ontario based on the fact that the Liberal government of Ontario wants to take some $200 out of the pockets of Ontarians. It might be a little thing to them, but higher taxes kill jobs, and when jobs are killed, there is less tax being paid.

One of the important things a government can do, one of our chief objectives, is to make sure we have enough money to invest for Canadians and their priorities. One of the priorities is the CBC, and that is why we are providing it with $1 billion.

[Jean-François Fortin, Bloc, Haute-Gaspésie—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question for the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister is very simple.

In recent years, funding for the CBC has decreased and the corporation has had to make internal cutbacks. As a result, it has had to make changes to programming and has eliminated jobs in key sectors, such as the news sector. The impact is very real.

The Syndicat des communications de Radio-Canada and many other civil society organizations are calling for a special parliamentary committee to look at the role of the CBC, in order to determine its mandate, programming and funding. The committee could reach some conclusions that all parliamentarians could debate, and it could hear from witnesses and use that insight to decide what kind of stable, consistent funding the CBC should receive in relation to its mandate.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Again, Mr. Speaker, on this side of the House we respect the independence of the CBC to make its own decisions, decisions that are important.

Also, of course, there is a mandate that the CBC has to fulfill. We understand that. There is a mandate to meet its obligations in French and English for official language communities. We know that aboriginal communities across this country, in rural and northern parts of this country, depend on CBC Radio. We understand how important that is.

That is why the government provides over $1 billion in resources to the CBC. That is why, since coming to office, we have made sure it has the resources it needs. That is why we have invested in arts and culture, and that is why this sector is doing so well. That is why there are jobs being created in Etobicoke—Lakeshore. That is why there are jobs being created in Newmarket—Aurora, to support this industry.

I am very proud of that. I am proud of the artists and proud of what Canadians have accomplished. I only wish the opposition would be as proud as we are on this side.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say at the outset that I am sharing my time with the hon. member for Louis-Hébert.

I am pleased to have an opportunity to speak on this important resolution in the House today. It is one that I think the government House leader seemed to regard as being very tiresome, but it is one that is actually extremely important to Canada and the identity of a national institution that has been around for a very long period of the time. The motion reads as follows:

That, in the opinion of the House, CBC/Radio-Canada plays a key role in informing, entertaining and uniting Canadians and is today weakened because of the many rounds of cuts over the past 20 years, and calls on the government to: (a) reverse the $45 million in cuts for 2014-2015 in Budget 2012; and (b) provide adequate, stable, multi-year funding to the public broadcaster so that it can fulfill its mandate.

Frankly, I do not think that is a very big ask, so I do not understand why members opposite seem to be so determined to vote against the motion. From time to time, we hear members across the House castigate even the very existence of the CBC, and they entertained resolutions at their convention to destroy public funding for this important public institution.

As I mentioned in my comments to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister, this is an institution that has been around since the 1930s when the Conservative government of the prime minister, Sir Robert Borden, brought in the CBC at the height—

[An hon. member]

Bennett.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

It was R.B. Bennett. Sorry, I got the wrong prime minister, in the same era.

During the Depression we had the CBC started as a national institution. Why? It was to assist Canadians in understanding each other, to help create a national identity, and to play an important role in the building of this country. I think it has done so and it continues to do so. Its importance is no less now than it was then.

We see it in every region of this country. We see it in communities that, because of their location and linguistic diversity—Franco-Manitobans and Franco-Ontarians—have separate services. Radio-Canada operates in Quebec and other parts of Canada in the French language. In my region of Newfoundland and Labrador, we have terrific, valuable, important regional programing without which we would know a lot less about other parts of our own province and our own country.

In the Prairies and in agricultural Ontario, there is a great reliance on the special agricultural programing. In the Atlantic region as well, there are fisheries-related programs specially designed to deliver services to people in the country. That is not provided by other broadcasters or private networks.

In the area of the arts, it is extremely important, on a national level in terms of helping to develop a national cultural understanding, bringing artists from one part of the country to the whole country, which has seen a blossoming of the arts in music, songwriting, plays, and theatre, which again in some respects is not provided by the private system. There is obviously cultural and artistic programing throughout the broadcast milieu, but nonetheless the CBC plays the flagship role in that.

In my own province, for example, one program that is going to be affected by this is something called The Performance Hour. It is not disappearing entirely. It is being subsumed into an Atlantic program, but within Newfoundland and Labrador it has been extremely important in bringing professional concert-style recordings with professional sound engineering to the radio, to the broadcast, showcasing local artists, new artists, emerging artists, bands that have become nationally known such as Hey Rosetta! and Great Big Sea, and people like Amelia Curran and Ron Hynes, a Newfoundland treasure in terms of songwriting and performing and a national treasure as well. The CBC deserves credit and acknowledgement of the important role it plays in bringing these out.

There are lots of other examples. I could go on naming great artists, such as Pamela Morgan and Gordon Quinton. Sherman Downey, an artist from Newfoundland and Labrador, recently emerged at a CBC Searchlight contest, winning that with his band called the Ambiguous Case. They are very clever and unique in coming up with these bands' names, but Sherman Downey and the Ambiguous Case won the national CBC Searchlight contest last year, and that came out of the work CBC does in Newfoundland and Labrador and nationally in supporting artists and artistic endeavours.

When we hear the kind of language from members opposite, that they are supporting the CBC and that is why they gave it $1 billion, what they neglect to say is that it is $170 million less than the CBC got in 1996. Since 2012, the current government has taken $115 million away from the CBC. What our party has been talking about and asking for, and asks for in this resolution, is to have some stability in the CBC, not an annual allotment from Parliament depending on whatever the budget has to offer in any particular year, but rather to recognize that CBC/Radio-Canada performs significant and important national institutional roles, and to have stable, multi-year, and adequate funding for the CBC, so it can carry out its mandate. This is a very simple thing. It is an important national, cultural, social, linguistic institution that is part of the Canadian fabric.

I know that, opposite, there is not a lot of respect for institutions. We see the kind of cavalier manner in which the Supreme Court of Canada has been dealt with in recent days by the treatment of the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court by the Conservative government, in terms of deriding and casting aspersions about the honour and dignity, and questioning the integrity of the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada. To what avail, it is unknown, but it clearly shows that the government does not seem to respect the important institutions of our country. Obviously the CBC does not have the same level and importance of constitutional role as the Supreme Court of Canada in what we are now—a constitutional as well as a parliamentary democracy—the important institutional role that the Supreme Court of Canada plays in the balance of institutions between the executive, the Parliament, and the court. However, CBC is important nonetheless.

We see it in other countries: France, the U.K., and Australia. They have national broadcasters with substantially more funding on a per capita basis than we see here in Canada. The Conservatives can talk about $1 billion as being a lot of money, but if that is inadequate to provide the stable funding necessary to meet the mandate that the CBC has in this country, then obviously they are not doing a proper job.

One could spend a lot of time talking about the value of CBC to our country. Canadians realize that they know a lot about this country that they would not know if it were not for the CBC/Radio-Canada in terms of its mandate to help us understand one another, to build a sense of national unity, to build a sense of national values that we talk about all the time. When we talk about Canada's national values in the world, in part we are talking about the values that have been shared, created, and developed through the medium of the CBC/Radio-Canada since its inception back in the 1930s. It is an extremely important and valuable institution. It deserves to have adequate, multi-year, stable funding so it can carry out and fulfill its mandate to the people of Canada. That is a very simple request, and I am surprised that it is treated with controversy by members opposite and an unwillingness to recognize that they have played a role in diminishing the capacity of CBC/Radio-Canada to fulfill its mandate by reducing its funding by $115 million since 2012.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I like to consider myself as a strong advocate for CBC. It is a crown corporation that has done so much in terms of nation building for our country over the years. Its future actually looks fairly promising with the way it is getting engaged with other technologies such as the Internet. I believe that we need to reaffirm the role that CBC can play in our future development as a country.

The question I have for the member is related to the government's approach to CBC as a corporation.

Earlier today I asked a question of the government regarding Canada Post. We had a meeting last night in Winnipeg's north end, and literally hundreds of people showed up. Unfortunately, I had to be here and so I was not there, but I understand the people there were feeling that the government is undermining Canada Post and were questioning whether the government really wants to have Canada Post.

Could the member apply that principle with regards to CBC? We have had members stand in their place and say that CBC English should not exist. Does the member feel that many on the Conservative bench would like to see CBC disappear as a crown corporation, as I believe they do?

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, of course, the Conservatives talk about the role of CBC as a crown corporation as if it was just another arm's-length corporation when in fact it is a vital national institution.

Yes, I believe that in the minds of a number of members opposite, and a significant part of the Conservative Party, that CBC would be under existential threat if they had their way. Fortunately, the Canadian public does regard CBC with great importance, wants to see it have stable, long-term funding and does not want to see it disappear.

I think we are on the side of the people in trying to save this corporation and ensure that it does not get cut, like the Conservative government has, and unfortunately, as the hon. member would know, as it was cut by the Liberals in the 1990s to try to save money.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate my colleague for his speech defending the CBC, our public broadcaster, which the Conservatives are criticizing because it is an independent crown corporation. In fact, it is quite clear that the CBC is a federal public institution that exists by virtue of the Broadcasting Act and that has cultural, linguistic, social and identity objectives.

A number of francophone journalists from Radio-Canada, including Céline Galipeau, Patrice Roy, Alain Gravel and Pierre Craig, recently appeared on the program Tout le monde en parle to speak out against all the cuts to CBC/Radio-Canada and the lack of public consultation and debate regarding those cuts. The corporation can bring in money. I would like to quote the following:

A program like Enquête, without which the Charbonneau Commission would not have seen the light of day, is one of the most compelling examples of Radio-Canada's contribution to our country's democratic health. The revelations that saved Canadian taxpayers tens of millions of dollars would not have come to light without the resources we have at our disposal.

There is a return for us. Programs like Enquête are made only by public broadcasters such as Radio-Canada and CBC. They are extremely useful for Canadians and they will disappear because the Conservatives are just sitting back.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Actually they are not sitting back. They are slashing budgets and reducing the effectiveness of our journalists. That is truly unfortunate.

I would like to hear my colleague's thoughts on that.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I have to say that I agree with my colleague. She has made some extremely important points about the role of CBC/Radio-Canada.

In the Broadcasting Act, where CBC's national mandate is set out, it is not simply another corporation that is expected to make money and provide a service. It has a national mandate, and the press, known as the “fourth estate” in democratic parliaments, after the courts, parliament, and the executive, plays an important role. The member has outlined one of them in terms of investigative reporting providing information about what is going on in our country and provinces. She mentioned the Charbonneau commission in Quebec as a result of that investigative journalism. It is extremely important and vital for our democracy.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there are days when I would rather not speak in the House, and today is one of them. Why? The reason is that a Canadian institution is under attack, and those who are trying to destroy it are claiming that it is not their fault.

I would like to read part of a letter that someone sent to Radio-Canada Québec this week:

We are hoping that Radio-Canada will keep the Saturday morning radio show La musique parle hosted by Ms. Martin. We also hope that the quality of regional programming will be maintained. Here is a modest contribution to help ensure that that is the case.

The person sent a cheque to Radio-Canada. Have we gotten to that point? Have we honestly fallen that low in a country as rich as ours?

I ask that because in a country as big and diverse as ours, we need something to unite us. When I say “unite”, I mean it in the sense of communicating and hearing others talk about sports, economics, politics, current events and so on. We need to know what is happening and we need to know that people in more remote areas are not paying just because of where they live. People who speak a minority language in one part of the country should not be penalized for speaking that language. People who want to know what is happening outside our borders and who want to hear about international news must be able to get that information. That is part of CBC's mandate. There needs to be an institution that fills that role. That mandate is currently under attack.

I am always surprised to hear the government say that it loves CBC and then turn around and make cuts to the corporation. Over the course of 25 years, under both the Liberals and the Conservatives, more than 42% of CBC's budget has been slashed. It is time to be honest.

When the constituent whose letter I read to you gave an interview to the local media, he simply said that what he wants is to listen to news from his community on his public broadcaster. If cuts continue to be made, that will not be possible.

Earlier, my colleague from Beauharnois—Salaberry spoke about the hosts who came together to take a stand. One of them said that, for several years, Radio-Canada's budget for French-language information had been chopped by 20%. Of course that has repercussions. Do we still want a quality service? Do we still need news of each other, meaning do we still want to know what other people are doing, and vice versa? I feel that it is important. Actually, it is essential.

Of course, we have some private broadcasters who do a number of things. However, we can agree that, if a mandate is not profitable, they will not fulfill it. That is normal; they are private companies. They have to make money first and foremost, we understand that. However, for ourselves, we can provide a service that is not all that expensive.

Just now, someone from the government said that $1 billion is a lot of money. Let us forget the number, and let us look at some comparisons. A few years ago, the average contribution in western countries was $87 per person. I am including countries like Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, Austria, France, the United States and Japan. In Canada, we are down to $29 per person, one third of the average contribution. That is happening in a country that, by the way, is way bigger than a lot of others, and in which all those other countries would probably fit.

Moreover, not only do we have remote areas, we also have two cultures and two languages, among other things.

In the United Kingdom, the contribution to the BBC is $111 per capita, even under a Conservative government. Here, we are going from $34 to $29 per capita. Yes, $1 billion is a lot of money, but we have to ask ourselves, “what price our identity?” That is why we are having this debate today. It is urgent.

It is absurd to hear the Minister of Canadian Heritage say that the cuts and the firings are someone else's fault. The Conservative government has appointed the last 12 CBC directors, nine of whom are contributors to the party. I would really prefer appointments to boards of directors to be people who have nothing to do with political parties. We should have independent board members. It is essential for the management of this crown corporation to be able to meet the challenges facing it, because challenges there are.

We know that the 21st century is a century of adaptation and that new technologies are ubiquitous. We know that conventional television will have a tougher time. The government has been talking about the decline in ad revenue at the CBC, but what is it doing to help? It cuts the corporation's budget even more. There have been two budget cuts. That is not right. Does the government even want the public broadcaster? What does it want, actually? That is why I thank my colleague for moving this motion because we must discuss what we want from our public broadcaster. What service do we want it to provide?

The budget cuts are so deep that the very mission of the broadcaster is in jeopardy. That is my personal opinion. It may not be the opinion across the way. Is that what we want? Do parliamentarians from both sides of the House want CBC to stop fulfilling its mandate? I would really like to know because it is important. If that is what the Conservative government wants, then it should say so.

The Minister of Canadian Heritage says it is not her fault that hundreds of millions of dollars in cuts resulted in positions being cut. As the minister, she knows that the organization has to adapt to the cuts and that there will be consequences. This is a blatant and pathetic illustration of the fact that the Conservatives are not fit to govern. They do not know what they are doing. They do not know that their actions have consequences. They think that the CBC operates in a bubble. That is not true. It is not immune to inflation, salary increases for its employees and its other obligations.

Do we want to keep this institution? My message is clear: we must keep it.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Minister of State (Western Economic Diversification)]

Mr. Speaker, for my colleague opposite, I was just sitting here looking through the annual report from CBC/Radio-Canada and I could not readily identify the amount of funding spent on managerial salaries versus technical or operational support salaries. Could he support a greater breakdown of that and could he elaborate on what his desired ratio of management to technical or operational staff would be on that particular concern?