Debates of May 15th, 2014

Opposition Motion—CBC/Radio-Canada

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his testimony about the impact of the CBC on him and his community and how it brings Canadians together.

I have this question for the member. As well as representing greater diversity, does a public broadcaster also have an important role to play as an independent news source? Can he tell us if he thinks it is vital to have a public broadcaster to ensure full freedom of the press?

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Speaker, yes, absolutely I do. I thank the member for Parkdale—High Park for the question. I used to live in her riding and I know a lot of CBC employees live there as well. I was in private broadcasting, I was part of the MétéoMédia/The Weather Network, which is regulated but private. When I would go and do stories and be associated with the CBC, I found the people very respectful of the journalistic standards put out there.

I will give an example. The Senate is doing a study on the CBC and requested that its anchor, Peter Mansbridge, appear, and the president wrote back to say, “We must decline your invitation to Mr. Mansbridge. It is not appropriate for journalists, whose job includes reporting on the activities of Senators, to be questioned by those same Senators at a Parliamentary Committee.” This is a good thing. It is proof that the CBC does live up to those journalistic standards and ethics, and if it does not, we have the ombudsman to go through and act as a mechanism by which that can be rectified.

However, recent debates do alarm me. In response to the Senate demand of getting Mr. Mansbridge in, it proves that there has to be that separation in place and we must not micromanage in this particular area.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what an honour it is to rise today in the House to speak to a fantastic motion on the CBC, moved by my party, the NDP. People may not know this, but I am a journalist by training. I will share my time with the great member for Vaudreuil-Soulanges.

This is about information and freedom of the press, as well as the extraordinary work done by journalists, whose situation is becoming increasingly precarious. Friends often tell me just how difficult it is to be a journalist every day, on many levels. Today, frankly, 10 minutes will not be enough time to say how much the NDP wants to support them and that we care about the CBC and we believe in it.

My colleagues spoke a little about what the CBC means to them. Personally, I am a big fan of Radio-Canada. I watch programs like Enquête and Découvertes. I also listen to radio programs. I could not go without mentioning À la semaine prochaîne, a funny political program that helps me take things a little less seriously each week, when we find that the Conservatives are steamrolling over us.

I rise in the House to support this NDP motion that reminds us that the CBC plays a fundamental role in informing, entertaining and uniting Canadians from coast to coast to coast. This role has been jeopardized, mainly because of the many rounds of cuts in the past 20 years, which is why we are asking the government to reverse the $45 million in cuts for 2014-15 in budget 2012 and provide adequate, stable, multi-year funding to the public broadcaster so that it can fulfill its mandate.

For the third time in four years, the CBC has announced significant budget cuts of over $130 million, which translates into 657 positions. Eleven positions will be cut in Québec, my riding. The CBC's situation is so precarious and difficult that 11 positions in Québec are threatened.

The CBC is at the heart of our cultural ecosystem. It broadcasts programs that are made here and acts as a showcase for creators in all sorts of disciplines. The CBC is also a partner in broadcasting many arts events.

Given these cuts, we are wondering whether the CBC will be able to fulfill its mandate, particularly when it comes to Canada's regions and linguistic minority communities. I am particularly concerned about the regions and linguistic minority communities. They will be harder hit by these cuts, to the point where it will be difficult for them to recover because of the problems the cuts will cause.

In this era of media concentration and cross-media ownership, Canadians need to be able to count on an independent and impartial source of information. We cannot stress enough how important this is. We have seen the importance of public broadcasting in recent years. Without shows such as Enquête, the Charbonneau commission would never have happened. This is one of the most striking examples of the strong and meaningful contribution the CBC makes to our country's democratic health.

Democracy can never be taken for granted. We work every day to make it real and meaningful. That includes freedom of the press.

I would like to make another important point. I read Time for Outrage! by the late Stéphane Hessel. In it, he said that any attack on freedom of the press, or an independent press, erodes the health of our democracy. It is really a step in the wrong direction. Sometimes, we come to this realization too late.

That is why we are sending out a warning today. The government needs to wake up. Today, we want people across Canada to understand this motion and join their voices with ours because it is important to stand up and say, in social media and other forums, that we care about the CBC. One more opinion is never one too many. That is part of democracy.

Alain Gravel, a journalist and the host of the television show Enquête, said:

Today, about 25 people make up the Enquête team. That may seem like a lot, but it is not too many for what we do. We do not keep track of our hours and everyone who works here is extremely dedicated. Conducting investigations takes time and an organizational structure that supports our work. Losing staff will definitely have an impact on our work.

Mr. Gravel goes on to say:

We, along with other investigative news teams, have helped to save Canadians tens of millions of dollars by uncovering corruption [which can happen at any time]. The first year we did the show, the City of Montreal announced that the cost of major public projects had dropped by 30% even before the police had investigated, simply through the power of information.

Alex Levasseur, president of the Syndicat des communications de Radio-Canada, said:

At the end of the day, it is the younger people who will have to leave. However..., when all is said and done..., this means cutting a team that works and delivers results.

The Fédération professionnelle des journalistes du Québec wants a public debate on the CBC's role. Brian Myles, vice-president of the FPJQ, said:

It seems the Conservative government wants to let the CBC die a slow death.

One cut at a time. This is the third time, and that is why we are saying enough is enough.

Actually, ever since they came to power, the Conservatives have been targeting the CBC. Everyone can see that. They appointed Conservatives to top management positions and basically instructed them to take an axe to the institution.

The CBC sports service has also been hard hit by cuts. Fifty hours of original sports programming are being cut. The CBC used to take a special interest in amateur sports. When Louis Lalande, executive vice-president of the CBC's French-language services, was asked about future broadcasts of the games of Université Laval's football team, Rouge et Or, he did not seem very optimistic in his answer:

It will be very difficult because we can no longer afford to have the same level of daytime programming as we do now.

The CBC is one of the least subsidized public broadcasters in the world. The CBC costs every Canadian $29 a year, whereas the BBC, for instance, receives about $111 per capita. That is unbelievable. Our broadcaster is one of the least subsidized broadcasters.

I look at the figures, and when we compare ourselves to other countries, the difference is unbelievable. Our broadcaster is receiving less and less funding. Of course this will affect the quality of information and Canadians' access to this information. That is what bothers me the most. The Conservatives are not able to understand that informed citizens are citizens who actively participate in their democracy, and that is what we want.

There needs to be more public education so that people can react to what is happening. We know that the Conservatives are out to destroy that because they do not want to be challenged. This situation is the result of the Conservative and Liberal governments gradually abandoning our public broadcaster.

The NDP feels that public broadcasting is important. Our motion is not asking for more funding, far from it. Instead, we want to stop the cuts so that the corporation can receive stable, adequate and predictable funding.

By making its budget more predictable, CBC would be able to cope with fluctuations in the current market. In return, we will continue to expect the corporation to meet the highest management and accountability standards, as is the case with all other crown corporations.

We can never stress enough how important it is to support our public broadcaster. The people at CBC have my full support, and I invite all Canadians to express how much they care about CBC. They should contact their MP and tell him or her that it is important to support our journalists.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I heard a lot in that speech. I did not hear a whole lot of content. I heard a lot of ideology. I heard a lot of accusations. I heard a lot of threats. However, I did not hear any resolve as to the importance of CBC and its meaning and purpose to Canadians.

Instead of talking about funding, because part of her speech was about the delivery of service CBC provides, could she stand in her place and provide two clear recommendations to the CBC on how it can better refine and define itself in this age of delivery of television services that the CBC could actually use?

She is telling us how great the CBC is. Where is the advice? Where is the help? Where is the assistance? What are the two major principles she believes the CBC should embark upon to solve the crisis and difficulties it is facing right now?

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, CBC is doing a lot with the little bit it has, so reversing the $45 million in cuts is the very least that can be done. We know that the Conservatives will be sitting on a nice big surplus next year. They are probably sitting on one right now.

I know that for every dollar invested in the cultural industry, $3 or $4 gets injected back into the system. Not understanding that it is important to invest in our cultural industry is therefore very short-sighted. This is also a question of identity. Everyone has a story about the CBC. This is about essential services, and public broadcasting is one of them. Support for these services can continue as they are currently, without endless cuts.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague talked about cuts to Radio-Canada in her riding, Quebec City, and there have been cuts in Montreal and Trois-Rivières too. Trois-Rivières is a big city, but not quite as big as Montreal and Quebec City.

What I am trying to show is that the “Radio-Canadian” network is nationwide. The same goes for Canada Post, which has an amazing network across the whole country.

Can my colleague comment on the Conservatives' vision, which is most likely informed by a desire to privatize broadcasting and eliminate the amazing networks that people have woven over the years, networks that enable all Canadians, from sea to sea, to see a reflection of themselves in these institutions? Alas, that reflection is not as clear as it once was.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague. I do not know how many MPs here represent the regions or how many represent urban areas but are from regions like the one I am from, the lower St. Lawrence.

What I do know is that people get regional news from the CBC, which tells people what is going on in their region. It is the leading broadcaster, and this job simply cannot be left solely to the private sector and at the mercy of the market and the whims of advertisers. We must support the CBC in our regions across the country because the broadcaster helps us connect with others.

It also enables francophone communities to connect and find out what they have in common. The government wants to divide and conquer, but there are many ways for us to discover that we have a lot more in common than what others would have us believe. That is what the CBC does.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciated the speech by my colleague. I would simply tell her that I have been listening to and watching the public broadcaster for a lot longer than she has, for biological reasons. My question for her is quite simple. I would like to know whether she agrees with me.

According to CBC's President Hubert Lacroix, the broadcaster's current revenue losses are tied to the loss of contracts to broadcast hockey games, a decline in viewership among 25 to 54 year olds, and the loss of ad revenue.

Does the hon. member agree that the challenges that CBC is currently dealing with are related to what is happening in the broadcasting market?

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is true that I am not part of the generation that saw the Indian head test pattern on television. I am sorry about that, but I have heard a lot about it.

What I can say is that CBC is adapting. There is a great deal of competition. A lot is happening on the Internet. Having an Internet presence is imperative and I think the corporation is adapting well in that regard. I have become a big fan of tou.tv. In fact, it is a big part of my social life. It allows me to watch what I want any time, day or night.

Fortunately, CBC is using these alternatives to deal with this massive competition. By stopping these cuts, we could give the broadcaster some breathing room and help it keep adapting to the market.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the CBC is Canadian stories. It is our voice. It is our sovereignty.

My first encounter with the CBC was in 1975 in Saint-Lazare, Quebec. As an anglophone Quebecer, the CBC and CTV were our two channels, other than the American channels we got. During the day, there would be game shows and soap operas on CTV, but on CBC, there was a funny man who drew pictures, dressed up, and talked to puppets. For a four-year-old kid, Ernie Coombs was the cat's meow.

Ernie Coombs fostered in me a love of art and a love of drama. He taught me things. He taught me good Canadian values. From that first encounter with that black and white TV set, I learned what it was to be Canadian and what it was to be an anglophone in Quebec. I learned the value of the CBC at that point.

In 1981, my grandfather St-Maurice's hotel in Quebec City burned down and he lost all his money and had to move in with my parents. Our TV programming underwent a shift at prime time. We were a family that liked sitcoms and American TV. We liked to laugh together. However, my grandfather liked les Canadiens de Montréal and les Expos de Montréal , so all of a sudden, we began watching CBC Hockey Night in Canada quite religiously. The transition took a bit of time, but I learned to love the theme song of Hockey Night in Canada and I learned to love the times we spent together as a family watching the games.

I am reminded that I went to my family last night and watched game seven of the Habs and the Bruins. There is a long tradition of matchups between these two teams. The Prime Minister can pretend that he is with the Habs, but he and his government, to me, act more like Boston. Here we have a team that is bullying, brutish, and, as we saw last night, desperate. When it is losing, it does not play a valiant game. It roughs up people against the boards.

While we are here, our party is defending the public broadcaster, and the Conservatives are piling up on our leader in this very House, pulling a Chara.

Hockey Night in Canada is a symbol of our cultural sovereignty. With budget cuts that have been made, the CBC could no longer compete for the contract for the NHL, because for a long time, at least 20 years, it had had challenges in its funding.

My colleague from Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor mentioned the 1990s and the $400 million in cuts the Liberals made, but I would like to mention something more recent. In 2003, Clifford Lincoln, the member for Lachine—Lac-Saint-Louis, prepared a report called “Our Cultural Sovereignty: The Second Century of Canadian Broadcasting”. This report recommended that the CBC get multiple-year stable funding. The Liberals had two years to do this. They had two full years to implement the recommendations in Mr. Lincoln's report. It was a parliamentary committee that prepared that report. However, we know the record of Paul Martin, and we know that he and his government had no understanding of the importance of the public broadcaster. Paul Martin, in the 1990s, cut $400 million at a time when the CBC faced the challenges of exploding channels and platforms. The Liberals could have prepared for the future, but instead, they cut the legs of the public broadcaster.

To return to my family and the 1990s, I remember sharing Radio One with my father. We would listen to the radio. We would listen to people like Rex Murphy , L. Ian MacDonald, and Bernie St-Laurent. We can agree or disagree with these political commentators, but there was public debate, ideas, and stories.

I mentioned at the beginning of my speech that I was an anglophone. My father, William Nicholls, was an anglophone as well. He was not a man who watched sports games. He listened to the CBC. He listened to the radio, and he listened to the public broadcaster for information, because my father was a dropout. His father was a town planner for the town of Pointe-Claire. His father passed away when he was 17, so he had to take care of his mother and his mentally challenged brother and never finished high school. Yet this was the man who was my foil and my debating partner.

My father, who was a Tory, with a disdain for Pierre Trudeau, and who was from a family of Tories, loved the CBC, because it was public debate. It was political ideas. He could shout at the radio about something he did not agree with, but we were talking about these issues. He was a critical thinker, and when he did not agree with something, he debated it. He debated, he spoke about it, and we would talk as a family about ideas. We would argue ideas. He did not shut down debate. He was not afraid of debate. He was not afraid of being challenged. He would never have identified with the party across the way. He would have been like Flora MacDonald. He would be supporting our party these days, seeing that the NDP is the only reliable one left standing to protect our public broadcaster, the only one reliable and trustworthy enough to defend our cultural sovereignty and the right to tell Canadian stories.

We are not just paying lip service here. This is not just a market-oriented decision being made. This is changing the fabric of Canadian sovereignty by crippling what has built our identity for generations. We are not just saving money or making economies of scale here; we are actually destroying institutions that have built for generations our Canadian identity.

I know that some members of the government party believe that the CBC is biased. This has always been an argument. I mentioned that my father would sometimes argue with what people said on the radio or television. My grandfather did as well. He was from a different political persuasion as well. However, we had discussions about politics and ideas.

I know the current government's position with respect to the CBC and its feeling about it, because I listened to the member for New Brunswick Southwest at the official languages committee. He had questions for Mr. Hubert Lacroix. He asked Mr. Lacroix about political bias in reporting and what he was going to do about it. Mr. Lacroix was talking about making efficiencies in his organization and budget cuts, yet the member for New Brunswick Southwest questioned him on political bias. Right there it became clear why these budget cuts were being made to the CBC. It was not because the CBC was not effective in its role. It was not because it was not effective in telling Canadian stories. It was simply because the CBC often runs stories that are embarrassing to the government.

Let us not beat around the bush. The current government does not like the news reporting service of the public broadcaster. It is so focused on its partisan agenda that it cannot see the wider picture of what this public broadcaster does. It cannot see the wider picture of how it goes beyond these nine years of Conservative governance or the 13 years of Liberal governance before. It goes beyond that. It skips generations and brings generations together by telling our stories and sharing our stories and ideas.

The CBC is our Canadian stories, our voice, and our sovereignty. I ask all members of this House to vote for this motion in order to save this institution for generations to come.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, our government recognizes the contribution of the CBC in Canadian society. In some remote aboriginal and official language minority communities—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Order. The hon. member for Vaudreuil-Soulanges on a point of order.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Parkdale—High Park was standing up to ask a question.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

The chair called for questions and comments. There was nobody standing in the chamber. I looked around on both sides. The member in question was on the other side of the chamber and was walking back, but she was not in her place. Consequently, we moved on.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for York Centre.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as I was saying, our government recognizes the contribution that the CBC, as the national public broadcaster, plays in Canadian society. Some remote, aboriginal, and official language minority communities are served by the CBC for radio and television coverage. As members know, the CBC reaches Canadians across distances and backgrounds from across our great country and reflects that diversity to each other.

Specifically, the CBC is mandated to inform, enlighten, and entertain Canadian audiences and offer distinctively Canadian programming that contributes to an exchange and flow of cultural expression. That programming is expected to reflect Canada and all its regions to national and regional audiences while serving the needs of all the regions.

The CBC must strive to produce that programming of equal quality in both English and French as well as reflect the different needs of each official language community and English and French linguistic minorities. Moreover, the CBC/Radio-Canada is mandated to reflect the multicultural and multinational nature of Canada while contributing to a shared consciousness and identity.

Our national public broadcaster indeed has a broad mandate to fulfill. The CBC must, each and every day, reach Canadians using 30 television, radio, and digital services in both official languages, in eight aboriginal languages and in five languages on its international service.

The Broadcasting Act guarantees the CBC a degree of independence and freedom as an arm's-length crown corporation. This guarantee is based on the significance and importance of journalistic freedom in our democracy.

This freedom and independence of the CBC is stated multiple times in the Broadcasting Act, “...The Corporation shall, in the pursuit of its objects and in the exercise of its powers, enjoy freedom of expression and journalistic, creative and programming independence”. Our government continues to work with the CBC in a manner that respects these independence principles and allows it to fulfill its national cultural mandate. Members may ask why this freedom and independence is so important. In the context of the recent announcements made by the CBC President and CEO about program and staff reductions at the corporation, it is important to understand by whom, why, and how those decisions were made.

Our opposition colleagues have been alluding to reduced parliamentary funding as the source of the CBC's current financial difficulties. I would like to put that to rest once and for all. The business decisions announced by the CBC reflect the realities of its business decisions. This brings me to how these concepts of freedom and independence translate for the CBC, particularly given its current situation. Now this is important, and I implore the opposition to pay close attention to what I am going to say.

When Parliament created the CBC, in order to ensure that its freedom and independence would remain paramount to government managerial oversight, it was designed as a crown corporation. A key feature of a crown corporation is that while they are public policy instruments, they also operate at arm's length from government. As an arm's-length corporation, the CBC is responsible for its own operational decisions. It is governed by a board of directors whose decisions regarding the strategic governance and stewardship of the CBC's resources are made at arm's length from government.

The CBC receives substantial funding to meet its mandate under the Broadcasting Act. It is up to the CBC to provide programming in French and English that Canadians want. The choices in programs and services are made independently from government involvement.

The implementation of the board's choices and decisions are managed by the president and chief executive officer of the CBC who is responsible for directing and supervising staff, as well as CBC's day-to-day operations. The board is accountable to Parliament and to Canadians through the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages for the good governance and management of its resources.

Each year, Parliament provides financial support to the CBC totalling more than $1 billion for the corporation to deliver on its mandate and its core services. It is an incredibly significant amount of federal funding. In fact, it is the most funding that we provide to any federal cultural or heritage crown corporation and, as the CBC has stated, it is enough money for the corporation to fulfill its mandate.

I would also like to remind the House that the CBC also has access to other funding sources. Our government contributes over $130 million to the Canada media fund to join the contributions of the private broadcasting industry in order to support Canadian television programming and associated digital media content. Given its dedication to Canadian content, the CBC also benefits from allocations of about $90 million from the Canada media fund for investments in Canadian content programming. Its allocations represent over one-third of the total funding this program provides to broadcasters.

The amount the CBC or any other broadcaster is allocated depends on the performance of the programs and their digital innovations. This is to ensure that Canadians receive value for the investments we make on their behalf.

Another reason for establishing the CBC as a crown corporation is that while being owned by the crown and pursuing cultural objectives, it has a certain flexibility, similar to that of a private business, to operate in a commercial environment. For instance, the CBC can generate revenue through its assets and services and retain and reinvest that revenue in its activities and programming. Revenues are key in the funding model Parliament designed for the CBC. Federal funding represents almost 65% of the CBC's total budget, while revenues account for the remaining 35%. Of that amount of revenues, about half comes from television advertising revenues, another 10% from subscription revenues to its specialty services, and the rest from other revenue sources.

Given its mandate to reach all Canadians, and with revenues making up a significant amount of available funds, it is imperative that the CBC deliver programming that Canadians want to watch. This is an important point, because the current financial difficulties that the CBC is facing are due to a number of business factors that have reduced revenues. According to its president, the CBC's declining viewership in key demographics and ad revenues are causing these challenges.

Since the economic downturn of 2008-09, the television advertising market has rebounded, but it never fully recovered to previous levels. This is amplified by the CBC television program schedule's difficulty in attracting the 25- to 54-year-old age group for advertisers, making it harder for the corporation to attain revenue targets.

The industry has also seen a major shift, with advertisers spending much more on online ads than on radio. The combination of those revenue losses is the main contributor behind the $130 million shortfall for the CBC, according to Monsieur Lacroix, the president and CEO. To address this shortfall, the CBC decided to implement a number of program and staff reductions so that its spending in 2014-15 and beyond will match its revenues.

Our government is committed to balanced budgets across federal institutions, and the CBC must do its part like everyone else. Budgets do not balance themselves.

The individual program, service, and staff reduction decisions have been taken and are being implemented by the CBC separately from our government. We cannot direct the CBC to retain a certain number of journalists for investigative programs nor can we tell the CBC to open new stations if the CBC does not believe it is the best use of its own resources, nor would my opposition colleagues want us to have this ability.

The CBC's mandate includes a number of key elements that its programming should reflect, such as regions, our English and French bilingualism, aboriginal peoples, and multiculturalism. However, the way in which the CBC delivers programs and services in response to its mandate is with a great degree of independence from government.

We have heard that the board approved budget reductions that are being carried out strategically to move away from business that it can no longer afford, to focus on regional services by letting go of some local programs, to consolidate its advertising strategy across media lines and platforms, and other measures. On May 1, 2014, at the Standing Committee on Official Languages, Mr. Lacroix reiterated that tough choices had to be made in order to balance its 2014-15 budget while maintaining priority investments in Canadian content, regions, and digital.

The reality is that the CBC/Radio-Canada is facing the same challenges as every other broadcaster: fragmentation of audiences, new content consumption methods, increased competition, and so on. All broadcasters are striving to adapt to this constantly changing new reality. Large groups are being formed, new strategies tested, and broadcasters are looking for new ways to keep audiences. CBC/Radio-Canada is no exception, and must produce programming that Canadians actually want to watch. Our government provides CBC with over $1 billion each year to ensure that the CBC fulfills its obligations as Canada's national broadcaster and fulfills its mandate.

Further, when the CBC/Radio-Canada's licences were renewed last year, the CRTC granted the corporation greater flexibility and allowed it to broadcast advertising on Radio 2 and Espace Musique as way of increasing its revenues.

Our government expects that the CBC will offer Canadians programming that interests them, programming that they want to see and hear, the kind of viewing that we are seeing today as we watch the Leader of the Opposition trying his best to explain why he used taxpayers' money for partisan political purposes.

I would like to summarize my address by stating that our government respects the CBC's decision-making autonomy with regard to its journalistic, programming, and service choices to operate within its budget. The CBC continues to receive over $1 billion in taxpayer funds.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am extremely proud to rise in the House today to talk about CBC/Radio-Canada. I am very proud of my colleague who moved this motion today so that we can discuss these cuts, which really hurt our regions.

Radio-Canada is vital to central Quebec and Drummond. It is truly important. There are young people who work for the corporation who do an excellent job of reporting the regional news. Unfortunately, these cuts hurt our region. The Conservatives say that CBC/Radio-Canada made these decisions and that it is an independent organization, but we must not forget that the broadcaster's main source of funding is the federal government.

Unfortunately, the Conservatives have cut this funding, which has had consequences. Why are there cuts in the Drummond area, in central Quebec and right across the country? It is because of this Conservative government's cuts.

I would like to add that these cuts are driven by ideology. Information results in better decision-making. Does my honourable colleague not find that the information broadcast by CBC/Radio-Canada helps people make informed decisions when it is time to take action?

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, that is typical of the NDP members when they talk about government money. They think that somehow there is this machine in the basement of Parliament that actually just churns out money, that there is a big wheel that just turns money out, dollar after dollar. The money is the taxpayers' money. We have committed to Canadians to focus on what matters most to Canadians: jobs, growth, and long-term prosperity. We are achieving balanced budgets by keeping taxes low. That is our commitment to Canadians.

All households in this country needs to balance their budgets. They sit around the kitchen table every single night and talk about what sacrifices they are going to have to make. Businesses do the same thing. Small businesses do the same thing.

The CBC is going through that very exercise. It is making those choices. It is up to CBC to make those choices, not the Government of Canada.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the member for York Centre.

First, let me thank him for explaining to us about the arm's-length situation, which I sometimes have to explain to my constituents. I get the odd comment about the CBC from my constituents. Mostly, folks wonder whether the funding is adequate, and I tell them the funding is quite significant. I am wondering if the member for York Centre gets those same kinds of questions from his constituents about the CBC and, if so, what he tells them.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, that is a very insightful question. Yes, I have been asked those questions in my own riding of York Centre, and I tell my constituents exactly what they understand, because most of them run their own businesses and have to balance their own budgets too, unlike the Liberal Party that believes budgets simply balance themselves. When people are in business and supporting families, resources are scarce and they have to allocate resources to what they think is the most important. They have to make choices and consider priorities. That is exactly what the CBC must do.

There is no endless amount of money that comes from the taxpayers of Canada. We believe that taxpayers' money belongs more in taxpayers' pockets than in the hands of government. Therefore, we have been pursuing a low-tax plan to achieve balanced budgets, and we will do so by 2015-16, which is exactly what the Canadian people have sent us here to do.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask my colleague if he understands the difference between an expense and an investment. For example, Radio-Canada costs Canadians 9¢ a day.

The program Enquête uncovered the construction scandal and this will save taxpayers millions or even billions of dollars for a rock-bottom price. I mentioned 9¢ a day. That means that my spouse and I, for example, contribute $1.26 a week to Radio-Canada. We watch consumer protection programs like L'épicerie, which saves us much more than $1.26 a week.

Does my colleague understand the difference between investing and spending?

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have run a small business myself. My wife and I have two small children, 10-year-old twins, and we understand the difference between an investment and a cost.

As a business person and someone who was sent here by the people of York Centre to watch their dollars closely, I know it is really important that we keep a close eye on how dollars are spent in this country. That was the mandate given to us by the people of Canada. It is interesting to note that the NDP talked about tax increases and now it is trying to change its phraseology, saying tax increases are an investment. I am presuming its $21 billion carbon tax that it is proposing is a $21 billion investment.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his great presentation and understanding. He is also on the finance committee.

Earlier one of my colleagues across the way was talking about one of the reasons that CBC lost the ability to continue to televise Hockey Night in Canada, which all of us are familiar with: that there were what my colleagues deemed to be cuts to CBC. If I understand it right, and maybe you can help me, it gets $1.1 billion or somewhere around there in subsidized funding from the Canadian taxpayers, yet a private company that does not get any subsidies will be televising Hockey Night in Canada.

I am wondering if you can help me try to understand how CBC would lose it when it is being subsidized with so much money.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

I am not sure if I can clarify that for the hon. member, but possibly the member for York Centre could.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I understand where the member is going with this, and I completely agree with him. This was an example of the marketplace acting as it should. The NDP members talk about having this kind of other world where markets do not work and where there is direct demand from the government, where the government dictates how people can spend their money and what they can spend it on. They engage in social engineering. This is the NDP way.

We have seen it in Ontario. We saw the disaster that it led to between 1990 and 1995. Even the Liberal government could not clean that up. In Ontario we are still facing devastation because of that five-year period. The member is right. The marketplace works as it should when left to its ability to do so. Here we saw two companies, two corporations competing for the same product, and one simply outbid the other.

Nothing will get a business in shape more than to subject it to competition. Monopoly does not lead to a more efficient economic model. It leads to a more inefficient model. Anyone who has studied elementary economics will absolutely know that.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, does the member for York Centre, who is claiming to be some kind of expert on business, know the difference between public and private television and radio? Does he know the difference? Is he familiar with the federal government's responsibility to our country's democracy and does he know why the CBC exists?