House of Commons Hansard #91 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was deal.

Topics

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

NDP

Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. I was very pleased to hear him talk about regional differences. As members know, Quebec has worked extremely hard to build a forestry regime and it is important that the government recognize that.

Over the course of the day, we have seen that the government recognizes Quebec's uniqueness, which is very important. Over 5,000 jobs are at stake in Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean and nothing has come of the negotiations.

What worries me is the balance of power. The Americans have made their decision, no matter what happens. The Prime Minister said that a framework was established when he met with President Barack Obama last spring. He even gave a speech here in the House.

I am wondering what the government plans to do to exercise our leadership and help us be strong. If we end up in a trade war and before the courts, is the government prepared to implement a plan B? Such a plan could consist of loan guarantees, for example. This would not be a subsidy for the forestry industry, but it would strengthen our position and show that we want to preserve our forestry industry. As my colleague mentioned in his speech, this is important because the industry is an economic contributor.

What does my colleague think that the government should do to strengthen our position, show our leadership, and send a clear message during negotiations with the Americans?

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Rémi Massé Liberal Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question. I also thank her for being so dedicated to defending her region's interests, which is so important, and especially for defending the interests of the forestry industry and the men and women who work in this economic sector. This is important to us.

Our government, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Trade, and the Minister of International Trade have shown unprecedented leadership. They have worked day after day to put themselves in a position to negotiate, to carry out negotiations, and to find common ground that will benefit not only Quebec and Canada, but all forestry industry workers.

Our leadership has resulted in negotiations that will produce an agreement. That is our goal, and that is what we will continue working toward.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if my colleague could highlight the importance of the issue when it comes to government working with the different stakeholders.

Through the Prime Minister, the minister, and cabinet, we have seen a fairly aggressive agenda in terms of trying to make sure, as much as possible, that we are protecting the interests of this industry in all regions of our country. It meant that we had to go into the different stakeholder meetings and work with the individuals in play to try to achieve the best agreement possible.

Could the member provide some comment regarding how important it is that we work with the different stakeholders who are before us on this very important issue?

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Rémi Massé Liberal Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question. It is much appreciated.

As I said in my speech, one of the priorities shared by the Prime Minister, the Minister of International Trade, and her parliamentary secretary is holding good negotiations and consulting with the industry, workers, and companies.

In recent weeks, I myself have had opportunities to meet with various business people in my riding to gain a better understanding of the issues and try to figure out the best possible solutions. Companies have invested in innovation to improve productivity. Work is being done, and that is how we want to support our forestry industry.

As I said, the important thing is making sure that we can engage in negotiations to reach an agreement that is in the best interests of the forestry industry in Quebec and Canada.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Mr. Speaker, securing a new softwood lumber agreement with the United States that works for all of Canada is a priority for the Prime Minister and our government.

The forestry sector is an essential part of the economic prosperity of the country, including the provinces of New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Labrador, and Prince Edward Island. The Government of Canada is fully aware of the vital role that the softwood lumber industry plays in Atlantic Canada.

This is why the Minister of International Trade, the parliamentary secretary to the Minister of International Trade, and officials from Global Affairs Canada have been collaborating closely with the industry and the provincial governments of the Atlantic provinces.

The Atlantic region, often referred as the Maritimes in a softwood lumber context, has a long-standing and unique position in the ongoing trade dispute between Canada and the United States. This century-old irritant in the bilateral trade relationship is rooted in differences in forest management practices in each country.

In the United States, most timber is harvested from private lands, with the cost of timber determined by the market. In Canada, the majority of forests are publicly owned, which would be about 92%, and provinces employ a range of administrative mechanisms to determine the market-based rates that are charged to industry for harvesting from crown lands. However, the U.S. lumber industry has argued that the price charged by provinces is a subsidy to Canadian lumber producers. We reject such assertions out of hand. Canadian lumber is market priced.

However, the Maritimes are exceptional, in the fact that a significant percentage of timber in this region comes from private lands. Furthermore, the price for crown timber in the Maritimes has been, and continues to be, based on a large pool of private transactions.

Over the past 35 years of the softwood lumber dispute, the United States government and the U.S. industry have consistently acknowledged that the lumber sourced from the Atlantic region was not subsidized. Exports of softwood lumber products from the Maritimes had never been found to be subsidized in any previous U.S. countervailing duty investigations into softwood lumber from Canada and have been excluded from every previous agreement.

This dates as far back as the 1987-88 amendment to the softwood lumber MOU, which was further enshrined in the 1996 Maritimes lumber agreement, also known as the maritime accord. The most recent chapter in the long-standing history of being excluded from the softwood lumber dispute was the 2006 softwood lumber agreement, under which softwood lumber products from the Maritimes, defined in the agreement as New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador, were excluded from export measures.

The Maritimes and the northeastern states have a centuries-old interlinked economic relationship. Much like Canada's relationship with the United States, the Atlantic region's relationship with New England is vital to the economic prosperity of both sides of the border. Forest products are a key part of that economic partnership.

The government has prioritized rebuilding Canada's important and strategic relationship with the United States, which has suffered over the last decade. Improving the tenor and tone of our bilateral engagement with the United States is critical to finding a solution to the softwood lumber issue. Ultimately, Canada, in collaboration with the four Atlantic provinces and all other provinces and territories, is focused on finding a durable and equitable solution, and one that benefits softwood lumber producers across Canada, as well as related industries and consumers.

The government understands the importance of the forestry sector and softwood lumber trade with the United States for the provinces of New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador. The forestry sector supports over 19,000 direct and indirect jobs in communities in the Atlantic provinces. These are primarily in rural communities, and these jobs are vital to their regions.

In 2015, the Atlantic provinces exported 8.7% of total Canadian softwood lumber exports to the United States by volume, valued at approximately $495 million. The Atlantic softwood lumber industry is a major contributor to the broader forestry sector.

The government recognizes that softwood lumber is about more than dimensional lumber. It is about the success of an entire economic sector and of rural communities. That is why the government is working so hard to negotiate a successor softwood lumber agreement that will provide stability and certainty for forestry workers in Atlantic Canada and across the country. This government has worked closely with Atlantic Canada and will continue this dialogue as they move forward together.

The Minister of International Trade and officials from Global Affairs Canada have consulted extensively with government officials from the four Atlantic provinces, and with several industry stakeholders, including the Atlantic lumber producers.

All have been unanimous in their discussions with the Minister of International Trade that they would support an agreement that works for all of Canada. However, they have been clear that given the historical record and the fact that the maritime system remains effectively unchanged, the Maritimes should be excluded from future subsidy investigations and exempt from border measures under a future softwood lumber agreement, as the region has traditionally been.

That is why this government ensured that the leaders' statement on softwood lumber from the Prime Minister and President Obama last June clearly stated that a key feature in any softwood lumber agreement would have provisions for regions or company exclusions.

The governments of the Atlantic provinces and their industry have been clear about their interests in a new agreement, and this government has listened. The Prime Minister and the Minister of International Trade will continue to push for consultation and the continuation of the maritime exclusion as we negotiate with the United States.

Rest assured, this government will continue to defend the interests of Atlantic Canada's softwood lumber industry, and the industry as a whole, from coast to coast to coast.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:40 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my colleague for her speech, but we have heard this narrative from the government side. It wants to tell us that it has turned the corner on the relationship with the United States, that it has a great relationship with the United States, and that apparently the previous government did not.

None of that is really true. If we look at the results, we would expect, if that were the case, that it would have been able to achieve results on this deal. After three months when the Conservatives were in power, we achieved results. We got a deal done. The Liberals have had a year; they still do not have a deal.

I want to ask the member, if the relationship with the United States is such that the Prime Minister and others have said it is, then why can they not effectively advance Canada's interests in the context of this relationship? Why are we not using that relationship to actually get results for the Canadians we are supposed to be representing?

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:40 p.m.

Liberal

Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of issues there. Over the past 10 years, our industries have changed, our economies have changed, the competing products have also changed. Within that 10-year period, I wonder what was being done to support the lumber industry as it was.

We heard from people who were before the international trade committee about the loss of market share during that 10-year period. It was not only due to the lack of negotiations, it was also due to the changing markets.

Between 2005 and 2009, there was a decline of 70% of the softwood lumber exports to the U.S. from the Atlantic provinces. There was a declining housing market. In addition, we heard from Duncan Davies, the president of Interfor Corporation, from British Columbia, who talked about the loss of market share to competing products. Within that 10-year period, the market changed. There was the introduction of competing products, such as steel composite and cement in the housing industry.

We have to have agreements in 2016, 10 years later, that reflect the changing market, not only on our side of the border, but also on the U.S. side, because it is looking to protect its own industry. We have to find an agreement that works best for both sides of the border.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:40 p.m.

Liberal

Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for the work she is doing with Standing Committee on International Trade. I understand that the committee travelled to Atlantic Canada this fall.

I wonder if the member could tell us of any feedback that she received from the industry in Atlantic Canada about trade, and specifically the upcoming agreement?

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Mr. Speaker, we heard before the trade committee from Gaston Poitras, the chair of the Atlantic Lumber Producers, that more than 50% of the timber that is exported is actually from private land. That does make a difference. They do not want to see a change to that.

They also talked about the significance of the new survey methods that have been used in Atlantic Canada. Those survey methods are to keep track and collect data on the stumpage rates in Atlantic Canada. Also, we have evidence, if there is an opening of the agreement and the Maritimes are looked at being potentially part of tariffs and non-tariff issues, to suggest that we are well in compliance and we are not a subsidized industry.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

NDP

Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech.

We are running out of time here today. What worries me most are jobs. Time is also running out on the negotiations. The more time passes, the more our jobs are at risk. We are afraid that come January, February, or March, the Americans are going to impose another surtax on our industry.

I would like my colleague to tell us whether the government has planned any sort of mechanism to support the forestry industry so that it can overcome those challenges and prevent job losses.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Mr. Speaker, certainly supporting any aspect of the softwood lumber industry is absolutely critical for this government, and I would say for everyone here in the House. I think we stand united, that we do not want to see job losses and that we also want to see the industry supported. We also want to see the industry supported with adaptability. A number of people before the international trade committee noted the importance of adaptability, of entering new markets, not being so dependent on one market, looking at how we need to diversify and become innovative. We had to do that in Atlantic Canada because of our heavy dependence on trade with the U.S. Certainly, it is a concern. Any time there are jobs lost in any of our communities, but especially in rural communities, it is extremely significant because of the ripple effect. We have seen in Atlantic Canada that so many families have moved from the east to the west to search for jobs and have not come back.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan.

We have often heard from the other side about agreements that have not been signed in the past 10 years. I would like to remind the government that it was our government actually, in 2006, shortly after being elected, that got the agreement done. It was a former lumber executive who came to the table and managed to get a deal done for Canadians. We have appreciated that work for the last 10 years. We have certainly seen renewals and extensions of the agreement, all based on that original success back in 2006.

Unlike what the government is trying to say, that the opposition when we were in government did not get it done, we actually got a lot done on the softwood lumber file. That kept communities, like my communities in Fort St. John, Mackenzie, and Fort Nelson, working in the lumber industry. Certainly, just with the downturn in the U.S. and the housing markets, all lumber-producing provinces across the country have had challenges.

I would like to clarify for the record that the previous Conservative government had a pretty good record when it came to softwood lumber, and trade deals specifically. That is why we are a bit concerned. We have seen negotiations where there is real progress. We had the former minister, the member for Abbotsford, get many trade deals signed while we were in government. We saw how much work it takes to get those deals done, when it was part of our mandate to get those deals done for the Canadian people so our trade and economy would be strong.

However, when we do not see it as part of a mandate letter to the minister, or as part of a budget, we are concerned, because it is a significant file and a significant part of our community and economy in Canada. It is huge. We are talking about a potential loss of 400,000 jobs. That is massive. Four hundred thousand just sounds like a big number, but it is 400,000 individual people that provide roofs over their families' heads, meals on their tables, etc. These are real people we are talking about.

We were led to believe that this new relationship, which has been talked about many times, between the Prime Minister and the President was a good thing. Relationships with other leaders, especially our number one trading partner is a good thing. For Canadians out there in TV land, our number one trading partner is the U.S. and its number one trading partner is us. It is the largest trade agreement in the world, and we would like to keep it that way. Lumber is a significant part of that trade agreement.

We had high hopes, because it was talked about. I have an article from the CBC, dated March 12, 2016, which stated that Canada's international trade minister had said the Prime Minister's official visit to Washington helped secure a real breakthrough in the contentious softwood lumber negotiations. She said, “We have now managed to get the Americans to the table, we have managed to raise attention to this issue at the very highest levels”.

There was an initial promise or high hopes that this new relationship was going to be much better and the deal was going to get done. That was back in March 12 of this year. We have all heard the quote, but I'll read it here. It says that the Prime Minister and President Obama “instructed [the minister] and her American counterpart, Michael Froman, to explore all options for solving the trade dispute and report back within 100 days.”

That 100 days was some time ago. It was that high hope though that led us, especially as a member from British Columbia, to believe an agreement would be done. We knew the President was coming June 29. Typically, when two leaders come together in a place like this, that is the time when significant agreements are signed. Not just pictures are taken, but real, solid agreements are done.

I will read from a CBC article, and this is June 30 now. It said that the Prime Minister and the President “didn't say anything publicly about one of the toughest files in Canada-U.S. relations when they met in Ottawa Wednesday.” It was strange, considering this new relationship that we hoped to benefit from in terms of a softwood lumber agreement. Our hopes really were dashed at that point, because it had been leading up to this crescendo where we would get this agreement signed. It was pointing to that. The 100 days would have fit and would have made that criteria fit with what they were trying to do.

However, what did we get? We actually have nothing now. As of October, we do not even have a pause anymore as to what was negotiated by the previous government. Now we are in a full softwood lumber trade war with the U.S., which is the last thing we wanted to see, especially going into an election in the U.S.

Therefore, it is not going to get better. Unfortunately, it is going to get worse before it gets better at this point. It is such a missed opportunity. Everything could have been done June 30 or June 29 and signed when the President was here with the Prime Minister. It could have all been done to much fanfare from us in B.C. and across the country; alas, nothing.

This brings us to why we formed the softwood lumber task force. We had a press conference this morning. Critics in the portfolios here were at the event. Part of its mandate is that it is not clear that the government is taking this seriously in negotiating behind the scenes. It just is not clear. We do not know. Therefore, our softwood lumber task force has a mandate, which is that the task force will hold the Liberal government accountable for solving the softwood lumber trade dispute with the United States in order to preserve market access for Canadian forestry products and protect thousands of jobs across Canada. Further, it is going to involve two components: stakeholder outreach and policy advocacy.

First, my colleague for Cariboo—Prince George and I have been meeting with concerned constituents of ours who work in mills and who also own mills. It is the smaller players who are going to be dramatically affected by this. The bigger players seem to be hunkering down and getting ready for the storm. However, it is the smaller players. We would call them smaller, but they are still companies that have 400 to 500 jobs per mill. That is 400 to 500 families that are fed and housed all within the softwood lumber industry. We have heard that they are deeply concerned about where this is going to take us.

The second part of that is the policy advocacy. What we are looking to do is to form our own negotiations, I guess, or a set of concerns to put to the government to make sure that the government is doing what it should and negotiating properly. I think some of the comments we have made on our side when we stand up and critique the government are really telling. It was interesting to see, on a former resource project I had been asking the other side about in repeated questions, that it actually makes a difference. We saw the difference when the minister responded that the Liberals were going to answer one of our concerns with one of their announcements, and they mentioned some of the things I talked about.

We know that the task force has the ability to influence the government in its negotiations, and that is the purpose of it. The purpose is to positively critique the government so that we get a good agreement at the end of the day.

We do know that it affects Canadians across this country. Again, I speak for my constituents in Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, but it really affects colleagues of mine in Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Quebec, and Atlantic Canada. It is really right across the board.

Again, this is with the intent of getting a good agreement. Our task force will challenge the minister to do exactly that and get us a good agreement.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:55 p.m.

Conservative

James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB

Mr. Speaker, I thank my friend from Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies for talking about the task force that our party has announced it is going have across this country to ensure that workers, industry, and all of the tertiary businesses that are tied to the forestry industry are having their say in how these negotiations go forward. It is critical that Canadians have a say in how the softwood lumber debate takes place, and how we inform the Minister of International Trade in dealing with the Americans.

I have to say that I continue to be somewhat apprehensive on whether or not the Liberal government will get this job done. We saw how the Liberals walked away from the Keystone pipeline and did not engage in any way, shape, or form in making that happen.

I would ask my colleague to talk about the concerns that he has had on the record that the current government has had in Canada-U.S. relations, especially when it comes to trade.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:55 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC

Mr. Speaker, yes, we have some deep concerns about agreements that were made and it was assumed were going to proceed, only to have a government over-regulate or step into the middle of the process and get in the way of good natural-resource projects.

The member brought up the tertiary industry. I always bring up the Starbucks coffee shop down the street from the mill, where everybody stops to get a coffee on the way to work. Those people will not have jobs as a result. Everybody is affected by the loss of jobs in the forest industry, especially in the forest capital of B.C., which is Prince George in my riding. The effects will be dramatic unless we get this deal solved.

Going back to what my colleague asked, the opportunity was there in June and it was missed. It was a perfect opportunity to sign the agreement when the President was in Ottawa and in the House. It would have been the perfect time to do it. Now, with the lead-up to the election, as we know, rhetoric gets more heated during this time and it is not looking good for us to get the agreement anytime soon.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

NDP

Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. I would simply like to remind him that when the Conservative government was in power, it cost the forestry industry $1 billion.

We want a deal to be signed, but at what price? I hope it will not be on the backs of our workers or at the industry's expense.

In his speech, my colleague mentioned that they have formed a task force to meet with workers and representatives from the forest industry. Since the beginning of June, this industry has known that the government would not be able to negotiate a deal. What is the industry asking for now? It wants the government to work on a plan B, which could be a loan guarantee program, for example.

What are my colleague's thoughts on a loan guarantee program? Are they going to listen to the forest industry, given that this is what the industry now wants?

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC

Mr. Speaker, I respect the member for asking the question about a loan type of program for the softwood lumber industry. That, to me, is one of the many issues that could be talked about in terms of what the deal finally looks like, but I find it awfully rich from the NDP.

We just talked about a Pacific NorthWest LNG announcement, of which the member who is from that riding was supportive. Then the NDP comes out and opposes the entire project when most of the member's constituents who work there would be employed through the LNG industry, yet the NDP wants to completely shut it down because of some ideological position.

To me, it is interesting that the New Democrats always talk as if they are pro-resource development, but they do not live by it. When it comes down to brass tacks, the NDP is not a resource-development positive party that promotes resource development in Canada. That is just the simple truth of it. It is sad, but let us hope that someday it will be the case that the NDP is a pro-resource development party.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise to speak in favour of the opposition motion on the softwood lumber agreement, and more generally on Canada-U.S. relations. I want to congratulate my friend the international trade critic for bringing the motion forward. He is a former agriculture minister as well, someone who certainly knows the intricacies and complexity of the issue.

I want to start my remarks today by setting the stage about Canada-U.S. relations and then I will move specifically to the motion and softwood lumber within that.

Canada and the U.S. have an important and strategic military, political, and economic relationship. On the economic side, the Canada-U.S. trade relationship is the largest trading relationship in the world. In terms of economic volume, economic value, it is the largest trading relationship between nations in human history. Our trading relationship is facilitated by our shared democratic values and, obviously, a shared desire for prosperity and for working together to achieve that end.

While there is a lot there in terms of our shared values, there are substantial differences between the way our political systems work. The way in which we have to engage each other should reflect an understanding and appreciation of those differences.

Canada as far as democracies go is a relatively centralized system within each level of government. We have a federal system, and provincial governments where a lot of power is exercised as well. With respect to the process of international deal-making, the federal government has the power to negotiate, to sign, and to ratify agreements, but it needs to engage the provinces on certain details that may touch on their jurisdiction. Effectively, our Constitution gives that power to the federal government. Unlike perhaps in the United States and other countries, if Canada signs a deal and the government is in favour of the deal, there is rarely any doubt, at least in a majority Parliament, about the deal not being ratified.

When we in Canada look at the situation in the United States, we can make the mistake of assuming that its system works exactly the same way, that the president is the only decision-maker involved. We know that the American system is very different and, therefore, to protect and advance Canada's economic interests, we really have to be engaged at all levels. We have to be engaged in a much wider and deeper way with the United States, not just with the president's administration.

We saw that under the previous government. We saw a real appreciation of the need for a depth of engagement that went not only across parties but also across individuals. We had a prime minister and ministers who were engaged in those relationships. Former MP Rob Merrifield worked as a legislative liaison person. He built relationships directly with legislators. We saw from that kind of negotiations and the kind of success we achieved generally that this approach paid substantial dividends. One example is country of origin labelling, which was basically at the finish line at the time of the last election. We achieved that success by working legislator by legislator, vote by vote, to build a consensus and the support we needed to advance Canada's position. That was an important part of the approach we took.

In addition to talking to legislators, especially in the context of the United States, we also have to be engaged in public discussion. We need leaders in this country who are prepared to speak to the broader global discussion, the public discussion, about the importance of trade, leaders who are willing to make public arguments in favour of the open economy.

We have heard the Prime Minister talk publicly at the United Nations and elsewhere about the success of Canadian pluralism, and I certainly applaud that. However, just as we agree with the principle of social and cultural openness, the open economy has been the foundation of our success. We need to be willing to speak in the international debate around that. We can speak about the benefits of international trade.

We see in the United States that the basic understanding of the value of the open economy is now up for debate. It is being attacked by people on different sides of the political spectrum. On the Republican side, a party historically in favour of free trade, the nominee is advocating tearing up most of the major trade deals already in place, but within the Democratic party on the other side there is some strong criticism of trade as well. We see this emerging anti-trade discourse and it is important that we have leadership in Canada that is prepared to talk about the value that trade has produced for both countries.

We are speaking today about a specific trade issue that is happening in a context in which American elites are questioning the broader value of trade. I think many of the elites understand the arguments in favour of trade at a deeper level, but they are being pushed and pulled away from these kinds of common-sense positions by certain political forces.

If we believe in the value of trade, one of those core principles of political discourse is that we cannot win an argument if we are not prepared to make it. Unfortunately, right now we do not have a Prime Minister who is prepared to stand up and make the arguments for the open economy. Whether it is being bold on the trans-Pacific partnership, actively prioritizing and addressing the softwood lumber issue, or talking about the larger benefits of trade in our relationship, it is a missed opportunity that we do not see this happening in the way and the degree to which it should.

Let us remember that, despite what we are hearing in the political discussion in the United States, all of the opinion data that I have seen suggests that many Americans at the ground level really understand and appreciate the value of the trading relationship. That is something that we can tap into. I have quoted these numbers in the House before. However, a recent Gallup poll found that only 33% of Americans view trade as a threat, down from a peak of 52% in 2008. That is a historic low in terms of Americans seeing the trade deal as a threat.

In general, the government's approach to the Canada-U.S. economic relationship has created some significant problems because the government has been unwilling to make those arguments for the open economy. We know where we stand. We know where the NDP stands. The government kind of blows in the wind when it comes to trade, but it has not been clear in terms of making these strong arguments.

We hear a lot of talk, especially on this issue. In this place, the Prime Minister used the word “bromance” and “dudeplomacy” when he was talking about the relationship with the United States, yet we do not see the use of that supposed relationship in advancing Canada's national interests. We should be using whatever cache we have there to advance the open economy and Canada's interests. Unfortunately, all of the evidence seems to suggest that this bromance is a bit one-sided and that the dudeplomacy is not happening and is not moving the results forward.

In the midst of this relationship, the Americans have not been shy about pushing forward their interests. The President spoke in this place about suggesting that Canada spend more on its military and that we support the trans-Pacific partnership, things that incidentally would probably be in Canada's interests as well. Therefore, it is important that we take advantage of the opportunity as well to advance our own interests in this relationship, that we are talking at a multi-dimensional level, that we are engaged with different levels, and that when the Prime Minister goes to Washington he brings the relevant ministers, such as the natural resource minister, not prioritizing the personal and glitzy parts of it but working to achieve results. If we had an emphasis on results, we would be further ahead on the softwood lumber deal.

Many of my colleagues have spoken specifically about the importance of the softwood lumber industry. Canada's largest export market for softwood lumber is the United States, as 96% of all softwood lumber imports into the United States come from Canada. Therefore, it is a relationship that is important to Canada as well as the United States and it needs to be a focus. Rather than focus on the optics and the media spectacle parts of the relationship, we need the government to dig in deep and say that it is not just about one person, it is not just about photos and about the public niceties, but that it is about how we advance Canada's national interest.

If we look at the absence of the mention of softwood lumber in the Liberal platform, in the throne speech, and in the mandate letter for the minister, this is reflected in the way the government has acted. When we were in government, within three months the Conservatives had a deal in place. That was because our former prime minister always emphasized Canadian values as well as Canada's national interests in international relations. It was not about the spectacle part of it. It was only that to the extent that it made a difference to the lives, well-being, and prosperity of ordinary women and men here in Canada because that is the first job of the government. It is not to promote its own individual brand. The first job of the government is to advance the interests of Canadians.

That is what we need to be doing with respect to our relationship with the United States. We need to go deep. We need to engage multiple people. We need to focus on substance. It needs to be the kind of negotiation that for the people at home, the Marthas and the Henrys who are watching that discussion, things are happening that matter for them and make their lives better. That is where we should be focusing. That is why the motion is important.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:10 p.m.

Liberal

Arnold Chan Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my friend from Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan for his debate, particularly his discussion on the nature of the Canada-U.S. relationship.

I was following most of his argument and actually agreed with a significant part of his thesis until you took that turn at the end and were critical of the current Prime Minister's use of his relationship with President Obama and then turned around and later said that the fact that we have this relationship and cannot get the deal done is somehow a failing on the part of the government.

I want to ask a more serious question about how we could deepen that relationship.

We recognize how complex this particular file is. Can you actually give us some concrete solutions and things that you think need to be in this particular agreement?

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

I am sure the hon. member did not mean me, the Speaker, telling him that. I am sure he meant the hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:10 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, I want to clarify that I am not at all critical of the idea of having a warm relationship. Obviously, warm relationships, in terms of international diplomacy, can have positive effects on Canadian interests. The point is that it should not be an end in and of itself. The relationship between leaders should be a means for advancing Canada's national interests.

There has been much discussion about our relationship, yet when we do not see results in terms of the interests of Canada, it makes us wonder whether the relationship actually is what it is made out to be, or if it is, why we are not using that relationship in a way that reflects what should be the job of our leadership.

In terms of concrete ideas, my colleagues have proposed a number of different things. Part of the challenge we have is that the discussion is happening very much in secret. We have to sort of rely on assurances from the minister that we are doing this or doing that. What we can say from the outside is that this certainly needs to be a priority. The government should have been able to get a deal by now, looking at the results the Conservatives were able to achieve when we were in government. It is important also to get an update, at least, in terms of where we are going with it and then to hopefully see some movement forward.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

NDP

Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am going to make a comment.

I do not believe that paying the Americans $1 billion, at the expense of the Canadian industry, is indicative of a good Canada-U.S. relationship. We are not necessarily getting a better agreement if we have to pay money to the Americans. It is really the Canadian industry that had to pay for that. All the players, the workers, and the forestry industry agree that we are better off going before independent tribunals than ending up with a bad agreement. We know that they won and were recognized on three occasions. Accordingly, it is better to go before the courts than to have a bad agreement that will be detrimental to our industry and will cause job losses that will be disastrous to our economy.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

I am afraid the hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan will have two minutes to answer that question when we resume debate on this topic.

It being 6:15 p.m., pursuant to an order made earlier today, all questions necessary to dispose of the opposition motion are deemed put and a recorded division deemed requested and deferred until Tuesday, October 18, 2016, at the expiry of the time provided for oral questions.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, I am sure that if you seek the consent of the House, we would agree to see the clock at 6:30 p.m.

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

Is it agreed?

Opposition Motion—Softwood Lumber AgreementBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.