House of Commons Hansard #87 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was change.

Topics

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

Madam Speaker, I work with the member on the environmental committee, and appreciate the input and intelligent discussion he brings to our committee. He brought up some excellent points on this today.

Yesterday, he was involved in the discussion on the economics of elasticity and inelasticity. As I understand from my economics courses of many decades ago, there are industries that do become inelastic and die. Therefore, do you believe that in this process there are those whose elasticity can make differences, but there may be also be industries that die because of the circumstances of inelasticity?

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

10:45 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I remind the member that he should speak through the Speaker, because I will not give you my opinion on that at this point.

The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

10:45 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Madam Speaker, I would love to hear your personal opinion on this. We will save that for another day.

I appreciate my colleague's question and opportunity to address this topic again. Yes, some industries are inelastic. They do not change. We are forced to pay what the price demands. However, the whole point behind government intervention is this. If the government can intervene, it can help to change habits, in this case creating and developing new technologies so those technologies can become more available, for example, electric cars. If they become more available because of the changes being implemented here, then the elasticity of electric cars, and hence somebody's ability to drive, becomes more available and the prices will fluctuate more with respect to the demand of the market.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

10:45 a.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Madam Speaker, I listened with great interest to my hon. colleague, but I missed the point. The point was the NDP amendment on the fact that the Liberals have excluded their obligations to negotiate and discuss with indigenous Canadians and indigenous leaders on this.

This is our attempt to help the Liberals. The Liberals talk a lot, but man, they really get bogged down when it actually comes to doing something right. For example, five chiefs fly to Ottawa to talk to the government about LNG and they are told that their meeting is cancelled because people are in Vancouver doing a photo op. The chiefs thought they would be getting discussions on site C, but the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and the Minister of Justice said that they could not discuss that because it was in court, so they will just approve the permits. That is not a relationship.

Will my hon. colleague support our amendment to ensure the government is obligated to involve the indigenous leaders of our country in the climate plan, because the Liberals have left it out? Maybe they are just excited. Maybe because they are a new government, they just forgot to include indigenous Canada. Maybe it is part of a disturbing pattern. Perhaps this debate and the subamendment will help us to find out where the Liberals are going on this issue.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Madam Speaker, I appreciate my colleague's willingness to want to help the Liberal Party. That is very endearing of him.

However, as I stated throughout my speech, all three governments, in particular, the U.S. and Canada, have committed to having discussions with our indigenous communities. It is very important. There is no doubt that climate change will affect our most northern communities first.

Do I support the idea of communicating and engaging with our indigenous communities? Absolutely. It is fundamental to any discussion that we have throughout our country on virtually any topic.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, I will be sharing my time with my friend from Oshawa.

My grandparents were my inspiration for my involvement in politics. My maternal grandmother was a Jewish child who grew up in Nazi Germany, and taught us up the importance of universal human rights. My grandfather was an engineer who worked for Syncrude in Alberta in the 1970s and 1980s. My grandfather made sure that we understood the devastating impact that bad and capricious government policy could have on the lives of ordinary hard-working men and women, men and women who, from the stroke of a Prime Minister's pen, could lose the ability to make a decent living for themselves and their families. This is his story.

My grandfather was born in Toronto in 1922. His parents came to Canada during the Irish potato famine. Even in Canada, he grew up poor. He studied engineering at U of T. He told us that he got good grades in the first year, and then he joined a fraternity. He went on to travel the world, practising his craft in the U.S., the Philippines, Venezuela, and Ecuador, where he met my grandmother at a house party.

Neither of my grandparents were political people in the same way that I am, but they were people whose lives were affected by politics. They settled in BC upon returning to Canada, and then moved to Alberta in 1975. Then, along with an entire generation of long-term and brand-new Albertans alike, my grandfather saw the economic health of Alberta collapse around him under the weight of the national energy program.

This is a common Alberta story, but it was a shock for me to discover, upon starting university in Ontario, that many people in this part of the country had not even heard of the national energy program. For those unfamiliar, the national energy program was a policy of the last Trudeau government that forced oil produced in Alberta to be sold at below market prices. Predictably, oil companies reduced production as a result, reducing wealth and benefiting no one. The program cost Alberta between $50 billion and $100 billion. Bankruptcies increased by 150%. We took decades to recover.

Albertans are not bitter people. We are proud and optimistic Canadians. We are proud to do our share, and more than our share. We are not bitter people but we will never forget, and indeed we will be ever vigilant. People like my grandfather, who were hit by the national energy program, were not privileged aristocrats, they were not big banks and they were not oil companies. They were ordinary people who came to one of those beautiful places in the world where hard work was enough.

There is not much so-called old money in Alberta. When Alberta is booming, anyone can make it. It does not matter where people come from or who their parents are. If people are willing to work, then they can make it in Alberta. When Alberta does well, everyone does well. When Alberta does poorly, everyone does poorly.

The national energy program was a high-minded elite scheme that hit ordinary people hard. Here is another thing about it. It was just plain stupid. It did not make sense. Reducing Canadian oil production did not make the east better off, it did not move jobs to other parts of the country; it just killed them.

It is 2016, but 2016 is apparently the new 1980. The Liberal government has once again turned its back on ordinary, decent, hard-working women and men who work in Alberta's energy industry, and all the interrelated jobs in Alberta and from coast to coast.

The government has announced that it is intent on imposing a national carbon tax. If provinces refuse to participate, then the Prime Minister will impose a jurisdiction-specific tax on that province. To my knowledge, this is the first time in Canadian history that we have a prime minister who wants to impose a punitive tax on some jurisdictions and not others in response to what it views is supposed to be their areas of jurisdiction.

What happened to national unity? What happened to working with the provinces? What happened to consultation? This announcement happened while provincial environment ministers were supposed to be discussing the way forward. A prime minister has not behaved this disdainfully toward the provinces in 35 years.

Let us talk about the policy here. Imposing a carbon tax will make it harder to do business in Canada. It will make it more expensive to produce energy. It will make it more expensive to eat, to travel, to heat homes. In the process it will reduce the production and consumption of goods in Canada.

We can hope that Canadian energy production will become more efficient in the coming years, and thus reduce emissions, but a punitive tax is probably more likely to reduce emissions by reducing production. It is not much of a win if that production is replaced by production in less environmentally friendly jurisdictions. The economic theory predicts that taxing a thing reduces its production, but it does not predict the mechanism by which that will occur. In the context of international competition and an already struggling energy markets, it is most likely that a blunt-ended new tax will just see investments not get made.

Canada accounts for less than 2% of global greenhouse gas emissions, so doing our part does not mean cutting ourselves off at the knees to reduce that amount marginally. We can actually do much better than that. We can look for policy solutions that incentivize innovation without incentivizing reduced production.

I would support binding sector-by-sector intensity-based regulations which would require companies to innovate and reduce emissions, but which would also allow them to admit more if they were producing more. I would also support additional incentives for new projects which produced energy in more efficient ways, not just wind and solar but natural gas and energy production that involved effective carbon sequestration.

This is not just hypothetical. Conservatives in office reduced greenhouse gas emissions. GHG emissions went down by 1% from 2006 to 2014 because of this suite of policies, even while they surged under the previous Liberal government. Our critics will say that they went down because of the global economic crisis, an event, incidentally, that they only seem to remember when they talk about the environment. However, the facts do not support that at all. While we were reducing emissions in Canada, global emissions grew by 16%, and we were one of the countries least affected by the global economic recession. Further, while decreasing emissions by 1%, we oversaw GDP growth of 35%.

Other critics will say that emissions only went down under the Conservatives because of policies in Ontario, but in reality emissions increased in every province under the previous Liberal government. Then, under the Conservatives, emissions in every province either went down or increased by a much lower amount than they did under the previous government.

Emissions reductions were not just happening in one province. The facts show that under the leadership of prime minister Stephen Harper, real improvements on greenhouse emissions were evident in every jurisdiction from coast to coast. Those are the numbers and members can check them.

An approach that encourages cleaner production as opposed to less production is good for the environment and it is good for the economy. However, an approach that taxes Canadians and Canadian companies, forcing them to produce less and lay people off, is terrible for the economy and does nothing for the environment as other countries pick up the slack. Let us not forget that China is building a new coal plant every week. Maybe the Prime Minister wants to extradite our coal industry to China, but I would like to keep energy jobs in Canada.

This is just like the national energy program, a proposal that kills jobs and reduces production without actually addressing the problem that it is supposed to address. Some Liberals will say that a carbon tax is a market mechanism. This is sort of like saying that eating a doughnut on the bleachers at a basketball game counts as going to the gym. It is formally correct, but substantively misleading.

I am not sure that the Liberals and the New Democrats believe in market mechanisms in any event, but just to make the point entirely clear, I think it would be considered a market mechanism if it uses market forces to drive behaviour. However, the value of that market mechanism is entirely dependent on its effects. A market mechanism which incentivizes good behaviour is likely good. A market mechanism which incentivizes bad behaviour is likely not.

Here is a simple comparison for hon. members. The United States has experimented with private prisons. Private prisons insert market incentives into prison administration, but they are the wrong kind of market incentives because prison operators do not have any incentive to encourage rehabilitation. In fact, they have every incentive to encourage recidivism and therefore repeat business. One might say that private prisons involve a market mechanism, but it is still a bad market mechanism.

The same is true of carbon taxes. One reduces one's carbon tax take by cutting production, killing jobs, and moving jobs overseas. Again, this might be markets in action, but it is still a bad outcome.

Many of us hear from time to time from representatives of different energy companies, but the government needs to spend more time listening to energy workers. "Bernard the Roughneck" is one of those workers, a young man who came to Parliament Hill two weeks ago to tell his story. This is what he had to say, “We've got people from all over this country coming to Alberta....These are places that you can go being an average person, and if you're willing to work hard and work more than 40 hours a week and bust your butt you can have something and you can have a decent quality of life. I would never have been able to get an education were it not for the oil patch.”

Bernard and so many other young Canadians did what my grandfather did. They came to Alberta, they busted their butts, and they made something for themselves and their families. Listening to Bernard's presentation struck a chord with many Albertans, because we or our families have been there before. However, now we are going back to a place of economic policy, which, to be frank, is just plain stupid. It will have a devastating impact on regional and national economies. We cannot let this happen again.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Mississauga Centre Ontario

Liberal

Omar Alghabra LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs (Consular Affairs)

Madam Speaker, the Conservative Party is against reforming our pension plan. The Conservative Party is against reforming our electoral system. The Conservative Party is against combatting climate change.

Does the member not believe that climate change is caused by carbon emissions? If he believes that, does he not believe that a government has a responsibility to help reduce carbon emissions? If he believes that, does he not believe that carbon emissions must be priced? If he believes that, can he tell us how he expects the government to put a price on carbon?

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, it will not surprise members to know that I quarrel with almost the entire premise of my colleague's question. However, to very specifically answer if I believe that carbon emissions cause climate change, and if I believe in the science of anthropomorphic climate change, yes I do, and so does my party. Do I think that we need a policy response? Yes.

What do I think that policy response is? I outlined it in detail in my speech. It is a policy response that not only works in theory but works in practice. We reduced emissions, and I went over the numbers, by 1% under the tenure of the previous Conservative government, which is far better than the previous Liberal government did. We did it while GDP went up 35%, and while global greenhouse gas emissions went up by 16%.

The member should look at our record if he wants to know what it takes to get it done. It is very clear in the numbers, and it was not only in some jurisdictions but across every single jurisdiction in Canada that we made significant progress on these issues.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Madam Speaker, I listened with great interest to my colleague from Alberta espousing support by his party for cleaner energy production.

I wonder if the member shares my disappointment in his party's failure, in the decade it was in power, to take more strident measures to phase-out coal-fired power. Under his government's tenure, it failed to introduce binding federal regulations to reduce mercury, which Alberta, to its credit, did. Now, other coal-fired power plants in Canada do not have to reduce mercury. Second, the Canadian Medical Association has said that, due to the serious health impacts and deaths associated with coal-fired power, we must move expeditiously to phase-out coal.

Does the member share my disappoint in his party's failure to support Alberta's measures?

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, this is really curious, because in my speech I laid out specific numbers in terms of policies undertaken and reductions achieved. However, my colleagues in other parties continue to want to cast aspersions without the facts of the record of the previous government.

With respect to my friend for Edmonton Strathcona, your saying it does not make it true. The record of what happened under the previous Conservative government is very clear. Therefore, if you say nothing was done, if you say emissions were not reduced, well, all Canadians have to do is look at the facts, look at the record.

With respect to coal, let me be very clear that the previous Conservative government did put regulations in place, but they are regulations that respect the reality that we are dealing with in an internationally competitive environment, one in which China adds a coal plant every single week. Therefore, we have to proceed in a way that has an effective suite of policies that address environmental challenges while strengthening our economy at the same time.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I will remind the member to address his questions to the Chair. He can make his comments to the Chair and not “you”. Again, I just want to redirect that.

The hon. member for Oshawa may have a very brief question, please.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Madam Speaker, I listened to my colleague's wonderful speech and he asked about the approach of the Prime Minister. I would ask him what he actually expects, because the Prime Minister said he admires the basic dictatorship of China. His idea of consultations is that he has already decided, with the environmental consultations going on, the health accord consultations, and the electoral reform consultations.

This is what we expect from the government. The challenge we have is this: what is this approach going to do to our international competitiveness?

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, that was a great question from my colleague and I look forward to hearing his speech next.

On the issue of process, we have a Prime Minister who had initially said he would negotiate and discuss these issues in good faith with the provinces, but then right in the midst of a meeting, he declared unilaterally that the federal government would impose punitive taxes on provinces that do not agree. This is hardly collaborative federalism.

I believe that it was Premier Wall who said that the provincial meeting was not worth the carbon emissions it took to get the ministers there. It certainly was not if the Prime Minister was not actually prepared to listen to what ministers were saying, if he already had a policy course in place. This shows profound disrespect for provinces, which are actually the ones that will have to do a lot of the practical on-the-ground implementation. It is the wrong approach for Canada. It is not going to help achieve results.

Again, the government should look at the record of the previous Conservative government, which actually achieved concrete results in this respect.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Madam Speaker, I rise in the House today to participate in what I hope to be a robust debate on the government's initiatives to lower greenhouse gas emissions. I had the chance to review the Paris accord as well as the Vancouver declaration, and while I do agree with the government's decision to ratify the Paris agreement, I cannot support the Vancouver declaration, which, in my opinion, encroaches on provincial and territorial rights.

After calling our previous Conservative government's carbon emission targets unambitious, I am pleased to see that the Liberals are in fact using the nationally determined contribution, the NDC targets, that we had set. This 30% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2030 is an ambitious goal that once again shows that Conservative policies are the best policies.

I want to elaborate on why I cannot support the motion. The Minister of Environment and Climate Change has repeatedly interpreted the Vancouver declaration as justification for the imposition of a national price on carbon on the provinces and the territories. The premier of Saskatchewan, the premier of Nova Scotia, and three territorial premiers have all opposed the imposition of a federal carbon tax and have openly disputed the Prime Minister's interpretation of the Vancouver declaration.

The Prime Minister campaigned and made a promise to work collaboratively with the provinces and territories on a pan-Canadian framework for addressing climate change. That is what he promised just last year. He has now backpedalled again, just like he did with election reform, just like he did with the health accord. He has decided to just go it alone.

This now means that instead of working with the provinces and territories, the Liberals will impose a dictatorial price of carbon on any province that does not come up with one of its own. He has given two options. One is the cap-and-trade system that is being proposed in Ontario. I want members across the way to Google “cap-and-trade scandal Europe” and see what comes up. The other option he has given is a carbon tax, which we all know is a tax on everything.

As Premier Wall stated, this is not the collaborative approach that the Prime Minister promised when he was elected. Just yesterday, we learned that the price on carbon would start at $10 per tonne in 2018 and will continue to rise by $10 per tonne each year until it reaches $50 per tonne in 2022. This was a unilateral federal decision. While the Liberals claim to be working collaboratively with the provinces and territories, the Prime Minister decided to only give two options for implementing that price. I repeat, it is a direct price on carbon or a cap-and-trade system, which was full of fraud in Europe.

This proposal would cost individual taxpayers thousands of dollars every year and it would also be the contributor to a massive new tax on consumers, the equivalent of an unbelievable 11.5¢ per litre of gasoline. The Liberals' plan to increase the overall tax burden on Canadians is something that I and the Conservative Party are firmly against. While I think all members of the House would agree that we must do our part to lower greenhouse gas emissions, we must do so without raising taxes on hard-working Canadian families. It is possible to protect the environment without taxing Canadians and businesses to death.

Our previous Conservative government recognized that Canada had to do its part by addressing our own emissions, which represented only 1.6% of global greenhouse gas emissions, which is important. We worked with the World Bank to assist countries that were especially vulnerable to the adverse effects of climate change. We invested in 19 new green technology projects under the Asia-Pacific partnership on clean development and climate. We invested in carbon capture technology, protected record numbers of parkland, and made historic investments in wetland and boreal forest restoration and protection, adding to Canada's capacity to absorb global greenhouse gas emissions. This is something we should be really proud of and something that Canada needs to be given credit for.

In fact, our policies were the first in Canadian history to see greenhouse gas emissions reduced. Our previous Conservative government had a plan and that plan continues today. We are the only party that is committed to preserving and protecting Canada's environment for future generations, while keeping taxes on Canadians and job creators low.

As the member of Parliament for Oshawa, ensuring businesses remain competitive internationally is extremely important to me and to my constituents. With General Motors being a huge employer in my riding, it is vital that Canada remains competitive on the world stage. My constituents continue to voice their concerns and express to me that the Liberals' plan to impose mandatory carbon taxes will, first, kill jobs; second, as we have seen in Ontario, hurt Ontario's competitiveness; and third, eventually destroy the manufacturing industry in my province.

Both provincial and federal Liberals continue to implement job-killing taxes. We have seen increases to the Canadian pension plan, and now the Liberals are forcing a price on carbon. This is all happening while Ontario's energy rates have become the costliest in North America. These policies are making Canada, but more specifically, my province of Ontario, less competitive. These policies do not benefit manufacturers. They do not benefit hard-working Canadians, and they do not benefit my riding of Oshawa.

The Conservative Party cannot support any policy that will increase the overall tax burden on Canadians. Instead of raising taxes, we should be looking at alternative solutions to lowering global greenhouse gas emissions.

Let us take a look at what is happening around the world today. We have 2,400 new coal plants being constructed or planned to be constructed in developing countries. At the end of 2015, alone, China and India managed to build 665 new coal stations, with plans to build additional 665 plants in the future. That is 1,330 new coal plants in just two countries.

With Canada contributing only 1.6% of global greenhouse gas emissions, our focus should be on helping other countries reduce their emissions from coal-fired power plants. We know the great technology in Saskatchewan. We have seen it. We have done it in Canada. The Prime Minister is failing to promote those technologies around the world.

This would have a bigger impact on reducing emissions globally, in comparison with implementing a mandatory national carbon tax on the provinces. As my colleague stated yesterday, it is scientifically proven that Canada could completely eliminate its carbon footprint and it would not stop or help resolve the issue of global warming.

Our previous Conservative government invested in carbon capture and storage technology, as I said. This could help other countries, such as China and India, reduce their emissions from coal-fired power plants, which ultimately would have a much larger impact on the reduction of global greenhouse gas emissions.

Once again, I am happy to support the Paris agreement, which commits countries, such as Canada, to finding solutions in reducing greenhouse gas emissions. I am really pleased, as well, as I said earlier, that the Liberals recognized that the targets set by the previous Conservative government were not unambitious, as they repeatedly stated.

I do, however, have concerns about the way the Liberals have interpreted the Vancouver declaration, as it is clearly not the same way the premiers have interpreted it. In typical Liberal fashion, the actual meaning and significance of the Vancouver declaration was not made clear enough. The fact that numerous premiers have come out against the Liberals' plan shows that an agreement was not reached. It seems that the Prime Minister's promised new era of collaboration with all levels of government has actually failed.

What we are seeing is Liberal collaboration, and basically, their idea of that is a fraud. They have already decided what they are going to do before discussions are even started. We have seen this over and over again. As I said earlier, it is the same with democratic reform. They made up their minds before they started the consultation. It is the same with the health accord. They have already made up their minds before opening these discussions. Instead of using a sledgehammer to force the provinces and territories, the Liberals are imposing this massive tax grab on Canadians against their will.

I think any Canadian who is reasonable understands the importance of reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Canadians are collaborative people. We want to work together. We want to work together with our partners around the world. However, we do not want to do it in a way that is going to kill our own economy.

As I mentioned, I am from Ontario. We have seen over 300,000 manufacturing jobs lost. These are good-quality manufacturing jobs. One manufacturing job in Oshawa has a spinoff of seven to 10 other jobs in the community.

Why have manufacturers left? It is very simple. Just next door, in the United States, instead of having the highest electrical rates, they have competitive electrical rates. They do not have new taxes such as the CPP doubling, and they certainly do not have a state or a national carbon tax. We need to use common sense here.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11:15 a.m.

Ottawa Centre Ontario

Liberal

Catherine McKenna LiberalMinister of Environment and Climate Change

Madam Speaker, I am very glad to hear that the member opposite supports the Paris agreement. I look forward to seeing his vote in that regard.

Let us be clear that our government is committed to meeting our international obligations. We actually have a plan to do so. Previous governments set a target without a plan.

When it comes to the action yesterday, I am very pleased. We have set out two lanes. We have 80% of Canadians who already live in a jurisdiction where there is a price on carbon, through the leadership of provinces like British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario, and Quebec. We have been very clear that this is not a cash grab. This is the way to move forward, and provinces have the opportunity to determine how they would like to use the revenues. They are able to do like British Columbia has done and make it revenue neutral. They return the revenues in the form of a tax cut to consumers and small businesses.

I would like the member opposite to comment on Suncor's support yesterday:

We support a broad-based price on carbon as an important tool to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the fight against climate change. And we will continue to participate in this important policy discussion.

We listen to job-makers. I would like to know if the member opposite does as well.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Madam Speaker, I am happy to respond to what Suncor said, because big corporations will just pass it on to everyday Canadians. As they increase the cost of running factories, running their operations, who pays? It is the average, everyday working Canadians.

I am glad the Minister of Environment and Climate Change stood up, because I am interested to hear what she has to say about the misinformation being put out there that the price on carbon will do anything to lower greenhouse gas emissions.

Our government was the first one to see greenhouse gas emissions actually drop. Under the previous Liberal government, they actually rose over 30%. We are down now at 1.6% of global greenhouse gas emissions.

The minister uses information and words like “carbon pollution”. As we breathe, we are breathing out carbon. The only reason the Liberals call it pollution is because they want to tax it.

How long will it be before this minister will want to charge taxes on exhalations by humans? The Liberals have not seen a tax they do not like. They will tax carbon, air, water. We just do not know what will come next after this minister.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Madam Speaker, I would like to put a question to the hon. member.

He makes the case that we not be trying to reduce carbon pollution because it will download the costs to ordinary Canadians. If I follow his logic, that also means we should shred all the laws that we have put in place over 40 to 50 years to reduce mercury, to reduce sulphur dioxide, to reduce NOx, to reduce particulate, because when the companies start to spend the dollars to put in place the technology to do so, they raise their prices.

Is the hon. member saying that we should also shred those laws?

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Madam Speaker, the misinformation coming from this member is amazing. I did not say that. What I said is that we have to show the proof.

The hon. member has a computer there. She can google “cap and trade”, “Europe”, and “scandal” and see what actually happened. What we want to do and what our government did is to take a real approach, a regulatory approach to lowering greenhouse gas emissions. What does the NDP want to do? It just wants to raise taxes even more. It wants to put unrealistic expectations on industry. Just ask Alberta.

The hon. member does not remember that her former leader, Jack Layton, wanted an 80% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. That would have killed our economy. Canada is a resourced based economy, a manufacturing based economy, and a value-added based economy.

The only way to get to those targets the NDP would like us to reach would be to shut down every single industry, every single home, every single method of transportation. There is not even technology out there to have solar airplanes. New Democrats are talking about technologies they think will happen in the future. This is unrealistic and we have to be very cautious, because right now the Canadian economy is fragile, and with the Liberal government's tax and spend policies, our competitiveness and place in the world is deteriorating.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

Ottawa Centre Ontario

Liberal

Catherine McKenna LiberalMinister of Environment and Climate Change

Madam Speaker, it is a privilege to rise here today to address hon. members and all Canadians about the importance of ratifying the Paris agreement.

Today the world is at a turning point as the effects of climate change are already being felt. We know that 2015 was the hottest year in recorded history and that before that, so was 2014. Scientists now tell us that 2016 is on track to shatter those records. Decade over decade we have seen increases in temperature. Climate change is real. We can already see and feel the impacts, from the heating oceans to rapid species extinction, to wildfires that rage longer and more harshly than ever before, and the list goes on.

With this great challenge of our time comes great opportunity.

In Paris, after intense and rigorous discussions, the world finally decided to act. For the first time in history almost 200 countries agreed that future generations deserve better.

The story of Paris was an overwhelmingly positive one, and we can be very proud of the role that Canada played. Our delegation included provincial and territorial premiers, mayors, indigenous leaders, and members of the opposition, who worked passionately to bring consensus. In Paris there was an understanding that by taking action now by reducing carbon pollution we would not only stave off the worst effects of climate change but also spark innovation and drive growth across our economy.

As I said, with this great challenge comes great opportunity.

Now here at home Canadians are demanding that we honour our commitment in Paris. Our MPs attended town halls across this country this summer. From Newfoundland to British Columbia, Canadians are calling for our country to lead. Thousands took the time to participate in our online consultations and in town halls in their communities. We have heard from Canadians, young and old, from businesses and labour organizations, from scientists, environmentalists, and indigenous peoples.

Canadians know that future generations deserve healthy cities, diverse economic opportunities, and pristine rivers and lakes. Ultimately, this is the legacy that we will all leave behind, and today, by ratifying the Paris agreement, Canada will become a leader in this new era.

The path forward will not always be easy, as there is much work to do. Years of inaction and indifference here in Canada and around the world have undermined our collective ability to protect our planet and protect our future. What should interest us now is doing something about it. That means ending the cycle in which federal governments have set targets without a corresponding plan. After years of inaction, today we are getting the work done.

During the election last year our party set forth a comprehensive plan to address climate change, and Canadians voted overwhelmingly in favour. We promised to invest in clean transportation systems, to upgrade our infrastructure for the 21st century, and to invest in renewable energy. In our very first budget we stayed true to our promises. We committed over $60 million for clean transportation, $2 billion to communities to improve their water infrastructure and make buildings more energy efficient, and over $1 billion to support clean technology projects.

Canadians wanted change and we are delivering.

Creating good jobs for middle-class Canadians is part of our commitment, as is our $120-billion investment in infrastructure over the next 10 years.

We will create jobs by updating our regulations in the construction and technology sectors. The new regulations will integrate scientific knowledge on climate change. We will create jobs in the area of new technologies and construction by investing in the infrastructure that supports alternative modes of transportation, such as electric vehicle charging stations and natural gas fuelling stations for hydrogen vehicles.

Throughout our history, as a nation, we have made investments to improve Canadians’ quality of life and to create opportunities, such as building our railroads and the Trans-Canada Highway.

We can learn from our predecessors, who had the courage to make tough decisions. We, too, can take this important step in the right direction and make the right decisions for future generations.

Canadians deserve a public transit system that relieves traffic congestion in our cities and reduces pollution. These may not be grandiose changes, but I can assure hon. members that these changes are essential.

We will continue to work with all levels of government to create an infrastructure plan that meets the real needs of Canadians, with a focus on sustainable communities and a clean economy.

Of course, there are cynics who say we should not try. They say that if we address climate change our economy will suffer. They could not be more wrong. The truth is that our economy suffers when we do not address climate change.

Earlier, I discussed the wildfires that burn each summer in our country, stoked by changes to our climate. The Insurance Bureau of Canada has estimated that the costs of recent fires could be $3.5 billion. Experts and insurance companies alike agree that the damage caused by the increased frequency of natural disasters will have a very heavy economic toll. This is a major reason to act.

However, it is not all doom and gloom. Simply put, there are billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of good, well-paying jobs on the table for countries that get this right. Engineering and design jobs in the clean energy sector; manufacturing jobs, whether of solar panels or electric vehicles; and jobs researching and processing biofuels are just a few examples.

By pricing carbon pollution, by pricing what we do not want, we can also be proactive rather than reactive to the realities of climate change. Members do not have to take my word for it. This past summer, business leaders from across the country lent their support to pricing carbon pollution, including retail leaders such as Canadian Tire, Loblaws, IKEA, and Air Canada; energy producers such as Enbridge, Shell and Suncor; resource companies such as Barrick Gold, Resolute Forest Products, and Teck Resources; and financial institutions, including BMO, Desjardins, Royal Bank, Scotiabank, and TD.

Suncor CEO Steve Williams stated, “We think climate change is happening. We think a broad-based carbon price is the right answer”.

Cenovus Energy released a statement that, “Having a price on carbon is one of the fairest and best ways to stimulate innovation to reduce the emissions associated with oil”.

These companies understand that when we pressure industry, when we put the right incentives in place, we unleash the market potential of our inventors, engineers, and entrepreneurs to innovate and create. These companies understand that as the world moves forward toward a low carbon economy, it is market pressure that will unlock Canadian innovation and allow us to stay competitive in the 21st century. We will continue to use older forms of energy, but we must take advantage of the staggering opportunities unfolding.

In 2015, there was a major global shift. Close to a third of a trillion dollars was invested globally in renewable power, almost double the amount invested in fossil fuels.

Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England, recently said that renewable energy investments represent a future market in the trillions of dollars. As he reiterated in another speech in Berlin, "The more we invest with foresight, the less we will regret in hindsight".

It is now time to signal to investors that Canada will take an active part in a low carbon economy.

John Kerry, the U.S. Secretary of State, who represents the largest economy in the world, has said, “The global energy market of the future is poised to be the largest market the world has ever known”.

There is no time for cynics. The business case is clear. Canada must lead, and we are.

Today the opportunities for Canadians are growing. Canada is blessed with bountiful resources. Our forebears hunted and fished in our forests. Coal and oil helped thrust our ships across the ocean, and propelled our trains from the Canadian Shield to the Pacific Ocean. Today, this legacy continues and at the same time has evolved.

Wind, solar, and geothermal energy sources are plentiful and now course through our electric grid. Our buildings are becoming more efficient and our transportation cleaner. Today, education and research in renewables is occurring across the country. Just this summer, the Edmonton Journal reported that students in Alberta are scrambling to take courses in solar panel installation at the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology. Other courses cannot keep up with demands. Many of those interested are electricians, and they see renewable energy as a natural progression for their trade. The same tools and knowledge that they use in one sector are transferring fluidly to the renewable energy sector. As one of the teachers in the article explained, the students know that this is the future and they are excited.

Since 2000, the amount of global electricity produced by solar power has doubled seven times. Wind power doubled four times over the same period. Here in Canada, Alberta is committed to generating 30% of its energy from renewables by 2030. In Saskatchewan, the province-owned utility, SaskPower, decided to one-up its neighbour and committed to 50% renewable energy by 2030. The opportunity for renewable energy extends into our oceans. In Nova Scotia, the Fundy Ocean Research Centre for Energy is leading Canada's efforts as a test centre of tidal energy technology. The latest research suggests that there are more than 7,000 megawatts of potential in Nova Scotia's Minas Passage alone, with a potential for 50,000 megawatts of energy through the Bay of Fundy.

The implementation of these technologies, and the research and know-how to create them, will require well-paying and skilled jobs from across our workforce.

Yesterday, I met in Montreal with environment ministers from every province and territory. First ministers stood together in March and committed to putting this country on a credible path to our Paris commitments. Since then, we have been working hard to do that. One of the topics on the agenda was how to price pollution. I will get to that, but first I want to say that carbon pricing was not the only subject on the table. Far from it.

Yesterday environment ministers came together and agreed on a framework for addressing climate change to send to premiers and to the Prime Minister. That framework included efforts to reduce emissions from our building stock, efforts to ramp up clean electricity across the country, plans for the collaboration of how we can adapt to the changes we are already facing, and ways to encourage innovation in clean technologies. Done right, this will create good middle-class jobs, grow our economy, and reduce pollution, including greenhouse gases. These are also essential pieces of a meaningful path forward on reducing climate pollution in this country. I want to thank all of my colleagues for the excellent work they have put into our discussions over the last six months.

Yesterday, we also spent two hours meeting with first nations, Métis, and Inuit leaders. In Canada, achieving the vision of the Paris agreement will require the inclusion and leadership of indigenous peoples. That is why the Canadian delegation played a key role in seeing that the agreement identified the need to respect the rights of indigenous peoples and consider traditional knowledge when taking climate action.

Our decision to include indigenous voices in Canada's official delegation demonstrates how seriously our government takes our commitments under the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. It reflects the deep commitment of our government to renew the relationship between Canada and indigenous peoples. Ensuring indigenous voices are heard is the essence of meaningful collaboration, especially where issues are as complex as climate change. That is why indigenous peoples have been included in the working group process over the last six months and have submitted detailed proposals to ministers on their priorities for a Canadian framework on climate change. We will continue to bring indigenous peoples into the decision-making process, strengthening our relationship to create better outcomes for all Canadians.

We have invested in our future to upgrade our infrastructure and install clean technologies, but let us be clear, to advance our goals we must also price carbon pollution.

Let me just say that about 40 countries around the world are pricing carbon. Why? Carbon pricing is the most economically effective way to reduce emissions and stimulate clean innovation, which will all be critical to Canada's success in a changing global economy.

A rising carbon price is critical to putting Canada on a path to meeting its Paris climate commitments and to building the foundation for a cleaner and stronger economic future. A well-designed plan will secure Canadian competitiveness in jobs while buffering any disproportionate impacts on vulnerable populations and sectors.

The idea is simple: let us put a price on what we do not want, pollution. Right now, polluters are not paying their fair share of the environmental damage they cause. Let us be clear: polluting is not free. The bill will always have to be paid. Right now, we are passing the true costs on to our kids and to our grandkids.

A price on carbon also sends a signal to Canadian innovators across all sectors that their ideas for reducing pollution are needed. This is a huge opportunity for Canada.

Over the last six months, we have worked with provinces and territories on a detailed examination of carbon pricing across Canada. Provinces have had months to come to the table with proposals and information about how carbon pricing can be done thoughtfully in this country. Our Canada-wide approach reflects this. It works with provinces and territories, building on their existing systems, and allows for regionally tailored paths towards a common goal.

By starting slowly and ramping up over five years, it gives businesses and households time to adjust and plan for lowering their carbon footprints. It allows provinces to keep and manage the revenues from carbon pricing as they see fit. Let me repeat: provinces will keep and manage the revenues from carbon pricing for themselves. Hyperbole and rhetoric aside, this is hardly a one-size-fits-all approach.

Canadians elected us on a clear mandate to implement carbon pricing, and reaction to our approach has been positive, from a wide variety of Canadians. John Stackhouse, senior vice-president, office of the CEO of RBC has said, “This climate policy makes economic and environmental sense. A rising Canada-wide carbon price is the most cost effective way to reduce emissions, spur private investment and simulate clean innovation across the economy.”

Canadian Labour Congress President Hassan Yussuff: “Today's carbon pricing announcement is an important and necessary step for our government to take towards meeting our Paris commitments..”.

Guy Cormier, chair of the board, president and CEO, Desjardins Group:

Desjardins Group supports the federal government's decision to impose a price on carbon, in respect to the provinces' choice to either implement a similar cost or a cap-and-trade system. [Desjardins believes that] the time has come for all the sectors of the economy to include climate change considerations into their strategic plans, to take advantage of business opportunities, to reduce risks and to meet the needs of Canadians.

Shell Canada president, Michael Crothers: “balancing Canadian economic development while protecting the environment will be enabled by a reasonable price on carbon..”.

Insurance Bureau of Canada, Don Forgeron: “IBC congratulates the Government on today's carbon pricing announcement. Severe weather is already costing Canadian taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars annually. This is an ambitious approach that takes the first steps in limiting future damage.”

Let me go through the details of the plan. All Canadian jurisdictions must price carbon pollution by the end of 2018, and the price will be set to the national benchmark. To ensure that the plan will meet our targets, we will review it in five years, in 2022. We have been equally clear that the choices, a carbon levy or a carbon trading system, are both fair and flexible. Provinces that do not have a system are free to choose which one works best for them.

Furthermore, eight out of every ten Canadians already live in a province that prices carbon pollution. The provinces and territories have been early leaders in addressing climate change. Heeding the call of businesses and scientists, B.C., Alberta, Ontario, and Quebec, have all implemented carbon pricing measures. B.C. and Alberta use a carbon levy, and either give money back to citizens through tax reductions or invest in energy efficient infrastructure and clean technology. Quebec and Ontario use a carbon trading system, where emissions are capped and industry must buy and sell credits when they want to emit.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11:40 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

The time is up, but I am sure the minister will have more to say during questions and comments.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Abbotsford.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Madam Speaker, the minister did not mention, at all, one of the fundamental points of the motion before us that we are being asked to support, which is the Vancouver declaration. There was not one reference to the Vancouver declaration.

I know why that is, and I refer her to the declaration. It talks about working together; a collaborative approach between provinces, territories, and the federal government; ensuring that the provinces and territories have the flexibility to design their own policies; enhanced co-operation; acting together to fight climate change, and on and on. However, the minister was in Montreal yesterday, meeting with the provincial and territorial environment ministers. They were meeting because they were instructed by the premiers and by the Prime Minister to finalize a national climate action plan. In the middle of that meeting, the Prime Minister pulled the rug out from underneath them and said he was imposing on the provinces and territories a harmful carbon tax grab.

I would like to know from the minister who was in the meeting, did she know when she was going in, in good faith with all of the premiers, that the Prime Minister was going to do this to the premiers? How can she justify imposing such a harmful carbon tax on provinces that are struggling and which economies are struggling?

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Madam Speaker, let us be clear. The Vancouver declaration said that the provinces and territories recognize, with the federal government, that we need to meet our international obligations and take serious action to do that.

I have been working over the last eight months or longer with the provinces and territories. I have gone to Saskatchewan to see carbon capture and storage. I have met with industry in Saskatchewan. I have been in Nova Scotia. I have had bilateral meetings. We have had technical meetings. We have had very good discussions.

I would like to point out to the member opposite that we got agreement on a broad framework, which includes actions to mitigate greenhouse gas emissions in a whole range of sectors, from buildings to vehicles. We talked about what measures should be taken to adapt to the impacts of climate change. We are already seeing flooding and droughts, and we know in the north that the impacts are very severe. We also looked at how we can take action on clean innovation jobs.

We are moving forward on a plan, and we are working with all Canadians, including the provinces and territories, and will continue to do so.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Madam Speaker, I thank the minister very much for her speech and her hard work on this file.

As the minister has said, climate change is indeed real, and we are already feeling the effects in Canada. The minister has also shared that during the election campaign, the Liberals presented the need for a comprehensive plan to address climate change in Canada. So far, regrettably, their budget has only committed part of that.

Today we are debating whether or not the government should move to ratify. We are not debating whether or not there should be a carbon tax, although we were blindsided on that by the Prime Minister's statement. Pricing carbon is just one piece, as the minister knows.

Delivering on the commitments that the minister made in Paris will be much more than before. It is to go eventually to 1.5 o C. My question for the minister is therefore: Will she support our subamendment that calls on her government to engage not only the territories and provinces but also the municipalities, indigenous Canadians, and Canadians in general? Will she commit to providing the full substantive plan, before ratifying, which includes the carbon tax, so that we have a credible plan before the United Nations?

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the member opposite for her advocacy on this file.

We have been working with all Canadians to develop our climate plan. We have held town halls across the country. We have had working groups that have heard from environmentalists, industry, indigenous peoples, and youth, and we continue to engage.

We believe it is important, though, that Canada stands up, that the members here support the actions required to support the Paris agreement, and that Canada be among the first countries to bring the Paris agreement into force.

We will continue moving forward to work with all Canadians to develop our climate change plan because we know this is a huge economic opportunity. It is not only about reducing emissions or future generations, it is about positioning ourselves for the economy of the future.

Paris AgreementGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Bob Nault Liberal Kenora, ON

Madam Speaker, I want to thank the minister for what I consider one of the most important speeches in the House in this term and maybe one of the most important speeches of our time.

One thing that people do not want to talk about is the effect of climate change on a day-to-day basis. I want to remind the House and let the minister know that as a northern MP, people in the north see climate change a lot more readily than members of Parliament who live in urban centres.

When I grew up, the ice always came off Lake of the Woods, which is home to the Experimental Lakes Area just down the road, in late April, early May. Now the ice comes off Lake of the Woods a month in advance. According to scientists, that has had a huge effect on one of the largest lakes in Canada.

As well, I want to remind the House that when I was a young man, there were no deer in my region. They were further south. Now thousands and thousands of deer live in my region because the climate has changed dramatically.

Could the minister explain in detail the importance of climate change vis-à-vis what is happening in the natural environment and why we have to make these decisions today for our kids and grandkids?