House of Commons Hansard #107 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was families.

Topics

Budget Implementation Act, 2016, No. 2Government Orders

6:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Budget Implementation Act, 2016, No. 2Government Orders

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

All those in favour of the amendment will please say yea.

Budget Implementation Act, 2016, No. 2Government Orders

6:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Budget Implementation Act, 2016, No. 2Government Orders

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

All those opposed will please say nay.

Budget Implementation Act, 2016, No. 2Government Orders

6:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Budget Implementation Act, 2016, No. 2Government Orders

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

In my opinion the nays have it.

And five or more members having risen:

(The House divided on the amendment, which was negatived on the following division:)

Vote #147

Budget Implementation Act, 2016, No. 2Government Orders

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

I declare the amendment defeated.

The next question is on the main motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Budget Implementation Act, 2016, No. 2Government Orders

6:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Budget Implementation Act, 2016, No. 2Government Orders

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Budget Implementation Act, 2016, No. 2Government Orders

6:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Budget Implementation Act, 2016, No. 2Government Orders

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

All those opposed will please say nay.

Budget Implementation Act, 2016, No. 2Government Orders

6:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Budget Implementation Act, 2016, No. 2Government Orders

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #148

Budget Implementation Act, 2016, No. 2Government Orders

7 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

I declare the motion carried. Consequently, this bill is referred to the Standing Committee on Finance.

(Bill read the second time and referred to a committee)

The House resumed from November 14 consideration of the motion that Bill C-26, An Act to amend the Canada Pension Plan, the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board Act and the Income Tax Act, be read the second time and referred to a committee, of the amendment and of the amendment to the amendment.

Canada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

7 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

The House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the amendment to the amendment.

(The House divided on the amendment to the amendment, which was negatived on the following division:)

Vote #149

Canada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

7:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

I declare the amendment to the amendment defeated.

I wish to inform the House that, because of the delay, there will be no private members' business hour today. Accordingly, the order will be rescheduled for another sitting.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

Foreign AffairsAdjournment Proceedings

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB

Mr. Speaker, I am proud to be able to rise to redress the question I raised on November 4, not even two short weeks ago, in which I asked the Minister of Defence where we are sending our soldiers in the UN mission in Africa; especially, on the basis that they are talking about root causes of the terrorist movement and why things are melting down in Africa. Essentially, we are dealing with radicalized terrorism. We are dealing with individuals who have a warped sense of ideology, a very twisted idea of what religion is; and of course, they are wanting to commit jihad and use peacekeepers as targets.

We know for a fact that in Mali, which is one of the countries to which the government wants to send our troops, al Qaeda in the Maghreb, which is the main terrorist organization in Mali, has already declared that it wants to use UN peacekeepers, blue helmets, for target practice. In just a couple of short years since the UN mission started in Mali, more than 106 peacekeepers have been killed, largely by terrorists.

The thing that we need to keep in mind—and everybody wants to talk about the root causes of this evil—is that these organizations, these gangs, these thugs, these terrorists, have been very successful in recruiting and retaining those individuals. We have to remember that the main groups that we are going to be fighting, that our forces are going to be encountering, are part of the major terrorist organizations. Even al Qaeda in the Maghreb, which is working out of Mali, has splintered off and part of the group under the leadership of al-Zawahiri has proclaimed allegiance to ISIS.

So, the same organization we are fighting with in Iraq, the same organization that has created all the havoc and death and atrocities in Syria, is now also the same organization we are dealing with in Mali.

We sent our troops to Afghanistan to fight the Taliban and al Qaeda, and al Qaeda is still out there, still exists, is still committing terrorist acts, is still committing all sorts of atrocities against innocent civilians, and is not playing by what we would consider the rules of war. However, it is losing ground. Even though it still has the allegiance of al-Shabaab in Somalia and Kenya, it has lost its control of Boko Haram, which has now pledged allegiance to ISIS. Also, it is important to know that Boko Haram is functioning in Nigeria, Niger, Chad, and north Cameroon, places where our troops can go.

Instead of looking at root causes, instead of sending us over there on a UN mission and being underneath the layers of bureaucracy dealing with the terrorist organizations that are there, why does the government not send us over on a NATO mission, or on a UN-led mission, to actually root out this evil, rather than deal with root causes, and allow us to get rid of these terrorists and bring true civility and protection to the civilian populations in North Africa?

Our big concern here is that the UN is not the proper organization to conduct a war effort. When we are fighting terrorism, it is a war. Even the government has quit using the term “peacekeeping” because there is no peace to keep.

I look forward to hearing the parliamentary secretary's response.

Foreign AffairsAdjournment Proceedings

7:15 p.m.

Scarborough—Guildwood Ontario

Liberal

John McKay LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence

Mr. Speaker, this is the first time my hon. colleague has looked forward to hearing what I might have to say on these matters.

The question is about root causes. The hon. member mentioned a couple of times that to look for and search out root causes is essentially a waste of time. I am not surprised. We have a huge divergence of philosophy in our approach to global affairs.

Knowing what the root causes are is important. God forbid that we should ask a protagonist what the root causes of the conflict are. The other approach is to shoot first and ask questions later. Part of that approach is to climb into one's hidey–hole and lecture all the bad guys, and there is no end of bad guys. Iran is the world's foremost exporter of state terrorism. The Russians are being very aggressive, destabilizing the eastern side of Europe, all of the Baltic countries, Ukraine, et cetera. Jihadists are in multiple countries. President Assad has just gone to new levels of brutality. Frankly, sitting in some hidey-hole and lecturing all these bad guys about all the bad things they are doing is not particularly useful.

Our approach has been to try to figure out what the causes are. The minister, in his exploration of whether we will participate in peace operations, and I emphasize that no decision has been made, has been to Africa twice. He has visited seven countries. He has visited with NGOs, government officials, and opposition officials. He has taken two of Canada's most knowledgeable people on conflict resolution with him on one of his trips, namely Justice Arbour and General Dallaire. These people are specialists in conflict and conflict reduction.

I know that it is naive to think that if we have some understanding of the root causes, we might actually be able to contribute to the resolution of some of these conflicts. It may be that some of the root causes involve climate change, where climate change forces the migration of people. When people migrate, conflict occurs. It may be some perverted interpretation of some of the world's great religions. It may be a conflict that is as old as time itself. It may be an ancient tribal feud. The Middle East has been in conflict for 4,000 years. It is an ethnic conflict. It is a religious conflict. It is a tribal conflict. It is a conflict over resources.

Maybe if we understand some of these root causes, we will not have to shoot quite so often.

I would note that the Minister of Foreign Affairs has gone. The Minister of International Development has gone. The approach is a whole-of-government approach. We just cannot continue to shoot at people and expect the conflicts to be resolved. If we understand the root of conflicts, maybe we could achieve an approach that would contribute to peace operations.

Foreign AffairsAdjournment Proceedings

7:20 p.m.

Conservative

James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately, the parliamentary secretary has missed the point that what is going on in theatre today has already been ratified. For what our troops are going to be facing, it is too late to start talking about root causes.

Conflict prevention down the road is an admirable goal, but we know that we have to eliminate those terrorists now. For whatever reason, people from all different walks of life have been attracted to the jihadist movement. They have been radicalized by religion, by philosophy, and by their hatred of the west. For that very reason, we need to go in there properly equipped and properly commanded.

General Vance, the Chief of the Defence Staff, was at committee today. General Vance quite clearly said that he is going to make sure that the troops have rules of engagement and a command he has control of.

We are also dealing with the United Nations, which brought us the mess in Bosnia. It brought us the mess in Rwanda. People like General Roméo Dallaire came back with incredible operational stress injuries and PTSD.

We have to address this head on. We have to make sure that our troops are properly equipped so they can eliminate the terrorists, protect the civilians, and ultimately be under the command of someone other than the United Nations.

Foreign AffairsAdjournment Proceedings

7:20 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

I will reply, Mr. Speaker, by, in effect, misquoting my minister, who yesterday, in reply to my hon. colleague, talked about his trips, the latest being to Mali and Senegal, and looking at them the way a soldier looked at a conflict zone, in fact, taking quite a number of tours of conflict zones. Therefore, he actually knows what he is talking about. He, along with the Chief of the Defence Staff, will never put our people in harm's way.

The hon. member talked about General Vance, Chief of the Defence Staff, who said at committee today, “As for our ability to protect ourselves we have learned a lot from Rwanda...I will make certain that the troops have the rules of engagement they need to be able to defend themselves and those who they work with”, By extension, I would say civilians. He continued, “They will have the rules of engagement they need in a Chapter 7 operation...to effectively contribute to that mission”.

I am sure that this does not necessarily answers my colleague's question.