Debates of Nov. 17th, 2016

Bill C-26—Time Allocation Motion

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise to pick up on the point of the hon. opposition House leader. When these debates about time allocation take place, the questions and responses are directed to the substance of the bill, in this case Bill C-26. However, the real issue lies beneath the surface, and it is the deteriorating relationship between the larger parties in this place, which unfortunately bleeds into and contaminates other important work in committees and so on.

The tone and the unwillingness to collaborate I have rarely found to be the fault of only one party. Rather, it generally reflects a lack of co-operation on the part of all parties. Therefore, my question is not really a question to the government. It is a plea to all the House leaders in this place, whether that be the member for Victoria or the opposition party and government House leaders. With all due respect, please do a reset.

Whatever has gone wrong in their relationship, they should go out, find a bar somewhere, have a scotch, and figure it out.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, these words from our respected and experienced colleague are well taken. We all feel this great responsibility Canadians gave us just a year ago. We know that they expect us to work together in a respectful relationship, open and critical but always respectful. Our colleague is a good demonstration of not only the importance of doing this work individually but of doing this work collectively.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this time allocation motion coming at this time is particularly troubling. Not only have fewer than half of our members had an opportunity to speak, but since we last had an opportunity to debate this bill, things have changed quite significantly in Canada. There was an election to the south, and we know that there will be a new plan that will impact businesses, trade, and many of our small businesses in Canada. What I am mostly concerned about is that we have not had a chance to articulate how this plan at this time is particularly foolhardy, given what is happening to the south.

They have broken promises to our small businesses about their tax rate and item after item. Now the government is putting us in an incredibly difficult position compared to the south, and we have not had an opportunity to debate that point.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I think we all appreciate our colleague's view.

We are grateful to him for emphasizing the importance of continuing this debate. As we all know, this debate will continue in committee, at which time we will have the opportunity to hear the views of those who are not as fortunate as we are to be here in the House of Commons.

We look forward to hearing their points of view and also look forward to third reading stage when we will read the committee's report and the important opinions expressed during the work of the committee in an inclusive manner.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I am a member of the Standing Committee on Finance, which had the opportunity to study this matter from November 14 to 16, 2016. Furthermore, on November 1, we spoke with the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board and officials from the Department of Finance.

It is time this bill moves on to the next stage and goes to committee so that we have the opportunity to finally sit down and study it in greater detail, clause by clause. I really hope this House can start moving on the work we would like to be doing at the finance committee in a more appropriate way.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, our colleague knows more than many of us in this House how important the work of the committee is and will be in guiding the next step of this important legislation. We have very important responsibilities. We are talking about the inclusiveness of this generation and future generations of workers in the labour market. We are also talking about fighting economic vulnerability and insecurity for many of our seniors, many of whom are waiting for more help when it comes to living in retirement with dignity and security.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when time allocation motions are used outside of exceptional circumstances, such as war, it shows an inability to work with the other parties in order to reach an agreement.

Given that the government promised to work with the other parties, why is it unable to do so, and why is it resorting to the use of parliamentary tools that it often criticized?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this gives me the opportunity to emphasize something we just heard. It is important that we work together in the House and respect the different views expressed here while also meeting our obligations towards Canadians, which consist of advancing programs of public and social interest. As Canadians know, these programs will result in a more prosperous and inclusive society that leaves no one behind and is focused on sustainable development.

We are well aware that our society is facing some very significant issues and challenges. Therefore, I invite all members of the House, no matter what side they sit on, to recognize the importance of working together for the well-being of all Canadians.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my riding neighbour, the minister and member for Québec for his remarks. It is essential that this bill be debated publicly because it directly affects taxpayers' wallets.

With this bill, the government would like to take more money out of the pockets of the Canadian people, around $1,000 from each person who is working. For entrepreneurs, the backbones of our economy, those who create jobs, those who create wealth, this bill would cost them $1,000 for each worker in their business. We are talking about a real issue.

Earlier, my colleague from Manitoba mentioned the parliamentary committee. The committee did in fact meet on Monday. An expert from the Department of Finance appeared and confirmed that this bill would have a number of consequences, including reductions in jobs, the gross domestic product, corporate investments, disposable income, and private savings.

Given all of these negative effects, why is the government still insisting on moving forward and infringing on parliamentarians' right to speak?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is an excellent question and the answer is quite simple. This is what Canadians want. They know that this measure will be good for their generation and for future generations.

All the provinces affected by the Canada pension plan expansion fully agree that the Government of Canada should move forward on this. According to the polls, 75% of Canadians living in the nine provinces affected by the Canada pension plan expansion support it. That is extremely important. Canadians have been waiting for years for this type of measure.

The rate of financial insecurity among seniors in Canada is very worrisome. There are workers who are looking for a safe, reliable, inexpensive, and easy way to save. These Canadians have been waiting for a CPP expansion for years. Members of the House have the opportunity to participate in something incredible that all Canadians will want to remember and celebrate in the years to come.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Mr. Speaker, New Democrats want to get back to work on this. We do not want to have another closure debate. We do want to debate the CPP bill. The debate already has identified serious flaws that would interfere with access to the CPP by persons with disabilities and women who choose to stay at home and do unpaid work. The debate has already raised important issues that we need to further discuss and to hear that the government wants to resolve. We oppose the closure motion.

I will recycle the words of the Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, the member for Winnipeg North, who in April of last year, when the Conservatives were proposing closure motions, said, “My question to the government House leader is this: How does he justify any sense of democracy and respect for the House when he continues to bring in time allocation only to get the government agenda across? At the end of the day, it is denying Canadians...their voices”.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate and am grateful for this opportunity to remind all members of the House that we have a double responsibility. We have the responsibility of listening respectfully and critically to the diversity of views in the House. We also have an important responsibility toward Canadians in advancing the agenda of this government, a government that has signalled how important sustainable development is, how important economic development that grows the middle class is, and how important inclusive development that leaves no one behind is.

That combination of development objectives speaks very much in favour of this particular legislation, which would not only grow the economy and make workers more integrated in the labour force, more able to engage in a fruitful and long-term relationship with employers, but also protect the inclusiveness and security of our seniors.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister talked about having a double responsibility. The Liberals clearly have a double standard when it comes to using time allocation. When they were in opposition, they bayed like stuck pigs, if I can mix those two metaphors, about how terrible time allocation was for democracy and how it was an outrage of epic proportions. The member for Winnipeg North made a career out of it. Maybe he is the most knowledgeable about time allocation and is now putting that knowledge to good use by moving time allocation here.

I was one of the lucky ones on our side of the House. I got to talk about how the bill would do nothing for seniors today. It would nothing for the next generation of seniors. It would hurt families living paycheque to paycheque by taking nearly $100 out of their bank accounts every month.

Why are the Liberals taking away the opportunity from nearly 60 of my colleagues to represent their constituents and talk about how the bill is bad for the economy and would do nothing for seniors?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have two quick responses.

First, as I signalled earlier, and as my colleague a few minutes ago mentioned, some of us were not here in the last government and therefore did not see how frequent these closure procedures were used, and so I cannot speak on the history of the previous government.

Second, it is a bit surprising to hear that a bill that is going to take 300,000 seniors out of income vulnerability would do nothing for seniors.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Families]

Mr. Speaker, I think we can all agree that Bill C-26 is important legislation. I think we can also all agree on the facts that nine out of 10 provincial governments are supporting this legislation. I wish the hon. opposition House leader was in the House to hear this—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I see the hon. member for Battle River—Crowfoot rising on a point of order, and I think I know what he is going to say. I will direct the hon. parliamentary secretary that we do not refer to the presence or absence of members in the House.

Does the hon. member for Battle River—Crowfoot have something more to add?

[Kevin Sorenson, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, indeed, that is the point of order. I know the member is a new member and does not have experience in the House, but the Liberals seem to have experience when it comes to moving time allocation on a very important bill, preventing us from being able to debate it.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank my hon. colleague for pointing that out. I will try not to make that error again.

Mr. Speaker, we are very grateful for the Province of Manitoba's leadership as well as of other governments across the country.

Does the hon. Minister of Social Development believe there is a national consensus on improving the CPP, not only among governments but also across the Canadian public, and should Parliament really reflect the will of Canadians and move this legislation to a standing committee expeditiously?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, may I say how proud and privileged I am to work with my parliamentary secretary every day in addressing the needs of seniors in particular.

In the context of this particular debate, we have seen, over just one year, a government that has been listening to the interests and views of the vast majority of Canadians on this important matter. In a matter of a few months, my colleague, the Minister of Finance, has advanced this discussion very quickly and has come up with a strong agreement with all provinces that participate in the Canada pension plan. This is not only a remarkable outcome in such little time, but even more importantly, it is a very important outcome for the current and future generations of workers, as well as all seniors in our country.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Mr. Speaker, one of the things I find awfully distressing about this, as I am sure do the 33 new colleagues on this side of the House, is that I was sent to this place to extend my voice on behalf of the people I represent but cannot. What is most disappointing about it is the hypocrisy on the part of the government.

A year ago, in their throne speech, the Liberals they set a new tone, and I remind them again of what they said: “And to give Canadians a stronger voice in the House of Commons, the Government will promote more open debate”.

One thing I have found as a new member is that my word is my worth in this place. It means everything. Why do their words not matter? Why do the words of the throne speech not matter in this situation? Why do not they matter in terms of the direction that the Prime Minister set for his ministers with the appendix on conflicts of interest? Why are their words not worth anything?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, all opinions expressed in the House are important, including those of the opposition, which I personally have the privilege and pleasure of listening to every day. Members of the House have heard from 35 Conservative Party members on this issue. That is slightly more than a third of the Conservative Party caucus.

We look forward to hearing more of their views and those of all members of the House during parliamentary committee debates. We are also very much looking forward to the committee's report, which will lead to third reading of the bill.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my colleagues have ably discussed many of the issues around time allocation. I want to ask a question specifically on Bill C-26.

Many people, when they put money aside privately, are not just saving for their retirement, but for interim priorities. They are maybe saving for an education, and then after realizing the value of that education, start to save for a new home, and then realize the value of that home to help them save for retirement. But the government, by restricting the eligible investments people can make in tax-free savings accounts, and by taking more money away from them and saving for them on their behalf, robs people of the ability to use their savings for interim projects, things like education, buying a home, and investing in a business.

Is this not another reason why we are much better off empowering people to save for their own futures, as well as long-term projects? Are we not better off doing it that way than by having a government-knows-best approach?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for giving me the opportunity to talk about very important issues concerning our seniors.

In recent months, we announced two important measures that will have a significant impact on our seniors' well-being. The first was dropping the age of eligibility for old age security down to 65. That will protect 100,000 seniors from extreme poverty, prevent the poverty rate among seniors aged 65 to 66 from climbing from 6% to 17%, and guard the most vulnerable 20% of seniors against a 40% burden.

The second was increasing the guaranteed income supplement, which will help 900,000 seniors across the country by giving them up to $950 more per year. This measure will lift 13,000 seniors out of poverty.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is another way of shutting down debate. We call it time allocation in Parliament. In different scenarios, we call it the “guillotine” when they literally shut down debate.

I am a newly elected MP like so many others. We were so happy, honoured, and privileged to take our place in our seats. Part of that privilege is making sure that every single community has a voice in the House of Commons, but with the shutting down of debate, I will not have the opportunity to bring forward my constituents' point of view on this important bill. It impacts seniors and families in all of our communities.

The Liberals said they would do things differently. I was so hoping and looking forward to doing things differently, but now I see a pattern of behaviour that is leading us down a road that shows they are not that different from the former Harper government.

Why is the government doing this? Will the minister consider withdrawing this motion so we can all do our job and bring—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The hon. Minister of Families, Children and Social Development.