House of Commons Hansard #117 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was retirement.

Topics

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

Noon

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

Mr. Speaker, it will have the opposite effect. Small businesses are the ones with the least ability to provide adequate pension or retirement programs and plans for their employees. It is exactly for those type of employees that this new enhancement will be of the most benefit and provide the most security, because it is the small employers who are not necessarily able to provide company retirement pension plans. Therefore, it is even more paramount that we adequately secure the retirement of employees who are working in small businesses. This enhancement will come at a very low cost and help small businesses secure employment for their employees, secure retirement for them, and provide a benefit that exceeds what they were offering before. I think it is a better inducement for them to retain their employees, and I do not think there will be an adverse effect on their employment abilities.

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

Noon

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Mr. Speaker, the issue of reforming the CPP is very important for this country. The New Democrats are committed to doing whatever it takes to get a good process in place.

Our concern is with respect to the government's declaring a stalemate with respect to our asking questions about the real and clear problems in this bill. There is a danger of government slipping very quickly into arrogance when it comes up with a bill that has problems, rather than the government working with the opposition.

I am talking about the dropout provisions that particularly target young women who step out of the workforce to have children, or persons with disabilities. Young women suffer time and again in the workplace because they are the ones who step out to have children. In the 1977 changes to CPP under the then Liberal government of Pierre Trudeau, we had provisions that identified the need to make sure that women would not be affected when they stepped out of the workforce. However, the current government has decided to exclude these provisions.

Therefore, I am asking my hon. colleague this. Why is the government shutting down debate on such an important provision that we can fix if we work collectively?

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

Noon

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

Mr. Speaker, there has been very rigorous and thorough debate on this bill. I believe there have been well over 70 or 75 speeches on this bill on both sides of the House. It has been rigorously debated and thoroughly fleshed out. It is also important sometimes for the government to move forward with its agenda. It would be in the best interests of the House to get on with a vote.

I have heard a lot of debate in the House on this bill and a lot of concerns from the opposition and members of the New Democratic Party have been very valid, but the case has been made and it is time for a vote, appropriately timed, as debate may end shortly.

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Scott Duvall NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am very concerned after closure has been imposed on debate that the member can recommend that we accept this bill as written when it would discriminate against women raising children and people with disabilities. How can he support such a bill that would cause an injustice in the future?

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is a very tough situation and a lot of the concerns have merit, but when an agreement is reached, with the buy-in of all the provinces, we have to look at the whole picture. Perhaps this may come up again. I agree that the issue of people with disabilities and women raising children is valid, but the overall concept of this enhancement would make Canadians much better off.

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to speak to Bill C-26 today. However, I find it unfortunate that our speaking time has been cut short. I became involved in politics to represent the constituents of Jonquière. I took on this role to uphold everyone's democratic rights. Whether we agree with the government or not, we are here to ask questions on behalf of Canadians in order to determine where our society is going.

First of all, I would like to thank my colleague from Hamilton Mountain for his excellent work on Bill C-26. He worked very hard, especially in committee, to raise the issues that I will discuss in my speech.

This bill would amend the Canada Pension Plan Act to incorporate the recent agreement reached between the provinces to enhance CPP benefits. While a better outcome was possible, since the full effect of the changes will not be felt for another 49 years, our young Canadians will benefit. Unless something changes along the way, when my young boys reach retirement age they will benefit from the changes we are debating in the House. I have to say that, as a mother, I find it a bit funny to say that. My boys will get older and benefit from this measure.

We must now see immediate action to help those seniors and Canadians on the cusp of retirement who will not benefit from these changes. The government must build on the momentum of this agreement and take steps to improve long-term retirement security for today's workers. It is all well and good to have changes that will come into effect in 49 years, but there is no denying that many seniors who are about to retire or who are now retired are grappling with financial insecurity. Unfortunately, they do not have enough income to live on, in other words to pay rent or eat properly. Still today in my riding, some seniors cannot afford a decent retirement home when the time comes to move into one.

Retirement insecurity is reaching a crisis level in Canada, as many Canadians do not have adequate savings to maintain their lifestyle upon retirement. A large part of this problem is fuelled by the erosion of workplace pension plans. Six in ten working Canadians have no private pension plan.

The NDP supports the bill, even though we feel that it does not quite meet Canadians' expectations regarding CPP reform. New Democrats, along with many in the labour movement and groups working for the rights of seniors and retirees, have long advocated that benefits be increased from replacing 25% of a worker's pre-retirement income to 50% of pre-retirement income. However, this legislation has offered up a very modest increase, from 25% to 33% of pre-retirement income.

Although we do like to see an increase, we feel that the amount is wholly inadequate, especially in terms of ensuring that our seniors do not have to live in poverty and can retire with the dignity and quality of life they deserve.

While many would be happy to finally see some changes to the plan and some increases in benefits, there are many who will be very unhappy. Those are the people who will see very little or no benefit from the changes presented in this bill. The government needs to leverage the energy generated by this agreement and do what it takes to improve long-term retirement security for today's workers. It must respond to Quebec's concerns about the impact of this enhancement on low-income workers.

The problem for today's seniors is that these pillars are falling behind in terms of enabling seniors to maintain an adequate standard of living. Dramatic increases in the costs of things like electricity and housing are causing great strain on seniors' fixed incomes.

Failing to take action now will have a great social cost, forcing many seniors into poverty. The number of seniors forced to use food banks will rise dramatically.

We talk about young moms a lot in the House. I want to talk about my best friend, Nathalie. Since I was elected, we have not spent as much time together as we used to because of my new responsibilities, but my friend Nathalie has been on my mind since Bill C-26 was introduced. She is a young mom who, together with her husband, decided to raise her children, to be there for them and to stay home with them, but also to work on her own personal growth by doing other things, such as volunteering with her local farm women's group.

I really admire this young woman because she is caring for her children and making a good life for them. She and her husband made some tough choices. She stays home, which means less income for the family, but the two of them feel it is very important to provide a good quality of life to their two young daughters.

However, I am disappointed by a major flaw in the bill. I fail to understand why the government simply will not help mothers like my friend Nathalie by immediately making the necessary changes. It would be so easy for us to do and it would help these mothers when they retire. Why do we penalize young mothers who decide, together with their spouse, to stay home to raise their children? We are talking about our future generation.

It is great that child care services are available to women like me who have a career. That is wonderful. However, it is not right to penalize women who stay at home to help their children become the adults of tomorrow because a bill fails to meet their needs. That is unacceptable. We must immediately rectify this as part of the new improvements.

It is easy to change a bill. We would just have to change a subclause, two or three lines maybe. Why is the government so bent on penalizing young women? I cannot stand by that.

The Canada pension plan is being improved and will benefit future generations, as I said, including my children, but not for another 49 years. I talked about our seniors earlier and I am quite concerned about what will happen to them now.

My parents are retired. They worked their entire lives to make a decent living in order to be able to pay for their house and groceries and to help me with my children. In fact, my parents look after my children when I am here in the House and am working on behalf of all Canadians. I am proud to be here for them and to do this work every day. However, when I meet with people from my riding of Jonquière and see the inequalities among them, I start asking myself serious questions. We have to find ways to take action now.

The NDP is recommending further increases to the GIS and the OAS, a national pharmacare program, and programs to enhance home care and palliative care.

We have much more work to do to ensure that workers can retire with adequate incomes and access to the services they need to have a good quality of life. The NDP will continue to work with our labour allies and others to improve the lives of Canadian seniors and retirees.

I will end my speech there. I hope that the government will listen, especially to women, like my friend Nathalie, and our seniors. I am thinking of Ms. Tremblay who devoted her entire life to looking after her granddaughter, a person with reduced mobility who needed very special care. We must consider these people because they, too, will need us in retirement. It is our responsibility and our duty as parliamentarians. It is also the government's duty.

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:15 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, the government is listening to Canadians, whether it is to increase the guaranteed income supplement, reduce the age of retirement from 67 to 65, or the bill before us today. The bill was achieved because of the co-operation and strong national leadership. Governments of all political stripes, even the New Democratic government in Alberta, signed on, recognizing the value of the legislation.

The change that the member is requesting is not as easy as she seems to imply, and the NDP knows that. The Minister of Finance has clearly indicated that he will bring this topic forward at the next discussion among his cohorts at the provincial level.

My question for the member is with respect to the issue of trying to get the bill passed. Would the member not recognize that if it were up to the official opposition, the Conservative Party, the bill would never pass? Does she believe we should succumb to what the Conservatives want on this bill?

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12:15 p.m.

NDP

Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

We agree on one part of the bill. However, I am wondering why the government did not introduce a comprehensive bill that includes women, mothers who decide to stay at home to raise their children. That is a full-time job. When they retire, they will not be able to collect the new enhanced benefits. Why are they being penalized?

Before introducing a bill, the government could have assessed the overall situation. My colleague from Hamilton has already proposed amendments and he made suggestions in committee. Why not make these changes now instead of later? We have a job to do. I choose to believe that, before introducing bills or amendments, the government takes every step possible to ensure that they are fully in line with the needs of our families.

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:15 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have a great deal of respect for my colleague.

I am troubled by the government's decision to limit this debate. There are clearly a number of problems with the bill, particularly with regard to the fact that people with disabilities and young women are being excluded from the enhancement. This could have a significant impact, particularly for women who depend on the drop-out provision when they leave the labour force to raise their children. I find that odd since the Prime Minister claims that his is a feminist government.

My question is simple. How can a government that claims to be feminist move forward with a bill that undermines the retirement of young women in Canada?

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:15 p.m.

NDP

Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

That was 2015. This is 2016, and the government calls itself feminist. We have had to set the record straight on that a number of times in the House.

The new enhanced benefit in Bill C-26 will not help young women.

The same applies on the labour front. So much has been done in pursuit of pay equity, but the bill will not take effect for another 18 months. Pay equity is more than 40 years overdue.

How can the government call itself feminist? “Feminist” is a great little word, but the government has to walk the talk. I think that Bill C-26 makes it clear the government is not really feminist.

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Salaberry—Suroît, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to follow up on my colleague's question.

The Liberals call themselves feminists, but they also say they are putting young people first and talk about how important it is to listen to them and meet their needs.

My husband is currently at home. What will happen when he is old enough to collect retirement benefits? He has been at home for two years. He will not be allowed to exclude those two years from his pension calculation. The Liberal bill is further jeopardizing the future of young people.

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question.

Her remarks are interesting. What I forgot to mention is that more and more young fathers are playing an active role. I want to emphasize this, because it is becoming increasingly common, which is great.

Bill C-26 does not encourage young parents, whether the father or mother, to stay home. The bill ignores fathers and mothers who choose to stay home to raise their children. In those cases, the enhanced benefits will not be calculated, which I think is appalling. This does nothing to help our young people create a better future for themselves and make good decisions regardless of their financial situation in order to give their children a good upbringing. How people help their children and the values they want to instill remain their choice.

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is a great honour and privilege to speak to Bill C-26, which I agree is one of the most important bills of this government, not just for the people of my generation but also for the next generation.

There are 11 million working Canadians without a workplace pension plan. As well, if we talk to people in the food banks today, they will report that a lot of working families are availing the help of the food banks.

When we combine the fact that 11 million working Canadians are without a workplace pension plan and a lot of working families are going to food banks for help, we know that when these families retire, they will retire in poverty.

We already have a lot of issues with the growing number of seniors. Just to give one example, in eastern Ontario, 2.5% of the patients account for close to 35% of the total hospital expenses. In this 2.5% of patients, close to 50% of them are seniors. The issues related to seniors are already costing us a lot. We have to take adequate steps so the seniors of the future years are well covered.

This bill, an act to amend Canada pension plan, the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board Act, and the Income Tax Act, as I mentioned earlier, is the most important thing. Let us summarize what the bill would do.

The bill proposes to amend the Canada pension plan to increase the amount of the retirement pension as well as survivors and disability pensions and the post-retirement benefit, subject to the amount of additional contributions made and the number of years for which those contributions are made; increase the maximum level of pensionable earnings by 14% as of 2025; provide for the making of additional contributions beginning in 2019; provide for the creation of additional Canada pension plan accounts and the accounting of funds in relation to it; and, finally, include the additional contributions and increased benefits in the financial review provisions of the act, and authorize the Governor in Council to make regulations in relation to those provisions.

I know this on its own cannot operate and deliver the results, so there are other related acts that need to be amended. Therefore, part 2 of the bill seeks amendments to the Income Tax Act to increase the working income tax benefit and to provide a deduction for additional employee contributions.

The first part of the act also proposes to amend addition Canada Pension Plan Investment Board Act to provide for the transfer of funds between the Investment Board and the additional Canada pension plan account, and to provide for the interpretation of financial statements in relation to amounts managed by the Investment Board in relation to the additional contributions and increased benefits.

As I mentioned earlier, middle-class Canadians are working harder than ever, but many are worried they will not have enough money for their retirement. A lot of working Canadians have no workplace pension plan. Each year, fewer and fewer Canadians have workplace pension plans on which to fall back. For this reason, we made a commitment to Canadians to strengthen the Canada pension plan to help them achieve their goal of a strong, secure and stable retirement.

Earlier this year, Canada's Minister of Finance released a historic agreement to make meaningful changes to the CPP, an example of federalism at its best.

The more than one quarter of Canadian families nearing retirement, about 1.1 million families, who are facing a drop in their standard of living will be able to retire in dignity as a result of this enhancement. This deal will boost how much Canadians will get from their pensions, from one quarter of their earnings now to nearly one third, which in my opinion is quite significant and is a necessary change we need to address.

To make sure these changes are affordable, we will phase them in slowly over seven years, from 2019 to 2025, so the impact is small and gradual. Every Canadian deserves a secure and dignified retirement after a lifetime of hard work. Through this announcement, we have taken a powerful step to help make that happen.

There are certain facilities that are available to plan for retirement. One is the RRSP account, which is available to every Canadian. We note that there is a huge gap. A lot of Canadians are eligible to make contributions to those accounts but are unable to make contributions because of the cost of living.

One of the ideas a friend from the opposite side of the House pointed to is financial literacy. While I agree that financial literacy is an important component in achieving this result, we also need reasonable, tangible ways and means to make this possible.

To conclude, I repeat, there are 11 million working Canadians without a workplace pension plan. A lot of food banks are seeing working Canadians. Keeping that in mind, I think we should all support Bill C-26.

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Mr. Speaker, one thing I did not hear the member talk about was jobs.

He talked about the middle class and said that “middle-class Canadians are working harder than ever”. He also talked about workplace pension plans to fall back on not being there as much as they should be. However, the government's policy is to cancel jobs. With its policies on energy, it has destroyed my area in southeast Saskatchewan by ruining good-paying, middle-class jobs that had sustainable pension plans. They are being wiped out because of the policies of the government.

How does the government sit there and talk about putting in a CPP program that will not support these people, because they have no jobs?

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am glad the member opposite brought up the issue of jobs. We are making historic investments in infrastructure in this country. All the investments we make will go toward creating new quality jobs.

Here is a fact. There is something on the job front taking place. Many Canadians have to manage with not just one job but more than one job simultaneously. This is going to continue in the future. We have to take steps today so that when young and middle-age Canadians retire, they will have an adequate pension to retire on.

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Sheri Benson NDP Saskatoon West, SK

Mr. Speaker, I want to make one point and then ask one question. I think it is important that much of the discussion from the government, when we are talking about pension benefits, relates to the maximum pension benefits people will get. However, only about 10% of the folks who actually receive CPP get the maximum benefit. Generally, the statistics are that almost three times as many men as women get access to those maximum benefits.

Knowing that fact, was the member not dismayed to hear that women who leave the workforce to raise children and those living on disability incomes are not going to receive the maximum benefit, as we originally thought, as they were excluded from the bill?

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Mr. Speaker, I recognize that the bill can always be improved, and I hope that the finance minister, in his next meeting with his provincial counterparts, will look into some of the shortcomings of the bill and that they will be addressed in the future.

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Mr. Speaker, the member knows that according to McKinsey & Company, 83% of Canadian households are on track to maintain their current living standards in retirement. Statistics Canada says that the share of Canadian seniors living on low incomes, which I think is called the LICO, has gone from 29% in 1970 to 3.7% today. In fact, not just seniors but regular Canadians are doing a great job of saving by themselves. They do not need big government intervention to tell them how to save.

What will happen, though, with this CPP increase, this tax on payrolls, is savings substitution. The saving that would have happened in the private sector will be moved over to the public sector and controlled by the government.

What does the member have to say about savings substitution, the phenomenon in economics whereby instead of saving by themselves, people expect the government to do it for them?

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member forgot the number of problems faced by seniors today. The hon. member seems to indicate that everything is so good that we do not need this bill. I have to completely disagree with him.

Today, in Ottawa alone, there are 10,000 people on the waiting list for affordable housing. We understand that a lot of seniors today face problems in maintaining their day-to-day living. Seniors of tomorrow, as I mentioned, will have a much bigger problem.

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to rise today to speak to Bill C-26, a bill to enhance the Canada pension plan.

I want to start by lamenting, as I did this morning, time allocation, which is bringing this debate to a premature end. I think this is one of those times, particularly with the degree of controversy about the drop-out provisions in the bill and how they will unequally impact women in this country, when we really should have more time for debate and more time to ensure that we have all the facts.

I want to take a moment to say that if there is anything sadder than watching Liberals fall short of their promises, it is the Conservatives jumping on them for doing about one-tenth of what the Conservatives did when they had power. The use of time allocation was constant in the 41st Parliament.

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, I know that many who are currently heckling me were not here in the 41st Parliament, but I can assure them that we had no time to turn around before there was yet another time allocation motion. The Conservatives broke through all historical records. However, this does not excuse the Liberals for doing the same thing.

I would urge members on both sides of the House to consider what we really want in terms of parliamentary decorum and in terms of being able to address bills and get them through the House in an expeditious way while also ensuring that we do not trample on the rights of each of us here as members of Parliament to do the work we were elected to do, which is to study the legislation, provide suggestions, work together, and produce what the people of Canada want. They want parliamentarians who see the big picture and are prepared to put their heads together to come up with better legislation by taking the time that is needed.

Tme allocation is in no one's interest here. I very much regret that the current government has brought it in now, for the ninth time. Again, for those who live in glass houses, I will remind them that it was 100 times that time allocation was brought in during the 41st Parliament.

I urge the Liberals in this place to consider what the threshold is against which they strive to achieve their goals. I would urge them not to think that their goal is to be better on any issue—the environment, climate, the treatment of veterans, criminal justice, Bill C-51, parliamentary decorum, the use of time allocation—than what Prime Minister Harper did. I want to set a really ambitious goal for them: Do better than what Prime Minister Mulroney did.

Obviously, I did not agree with everything done by the Progressive Conservative majority back in the 1980s, but I think if members go back and look at the use of time allocation, the number of whipped votes, and the treatment of issues and use that as a benchmark, they will find that they have to set their sights a good deal higher than trying to do better than the prime minister in the 41st Parliament.

Turning to the specifics of Bill C-26, I wish it did include—

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, but I am having trouble speaking through the noise.

I wish that Bill C-26 dealt with another pension issue. There is an omission, and I hope that the Minister of Finance will get back to it in the spring budget. It is an egregious situation that affects a minority of pensioners for sure, but they are the very people we should do the most to honour. These are people receiving pensions who, through the Superannuation Act, are deprived of spousal benefits if they are veterans, retired service persons, retired RCMP members, and other retired categories of public servants and have remarried over the age of 60. They are deprived of spousal benefits on their death.

This is a terrible injustice to a lot of constituents in my community of Saanich—Gulf Islands. I know that a lot of other members of Parliament are aware of this. It is due to the most anachronistic of all pension rules. It goes back to the Boer War. It was called the “gold-digger” clause.

I do not mind saying that I am 62. I do not feel that I am so far along with one foot in the grave that the gold-digger clause makes sense. The gold-digger clause in the Boer War was that if a soldier came back from the Boer War and remarried over the age of 60, the only possible reason anyone would have married one of these soldiers would have been to get their hands on their benefits when they passed away.

Times have changed. Very healthy, vigorous adults who have a lot of life left get married over the age of 60. I have one such serviceman in my riding who received the highest medals of honour, including the Legion of Honour from the French government, for his service in the Second World War. He is now over 90, and every day I see him, he reminds me to please do something about this terrible injustice. He does not want to leave his wife destitute. Therefore, I flag that again for the Minister of Finance.

Overall, the Green Party supports the bill. We support the fact that it is expanding the most reliable and consistent way in which we can ensure that seniors in Canada have adequate savings for retirement. The Canada pension plan is the most reliable and the most sustainable of what is available.

RRSPs, for example, are a good program. I know many of us will pay into it, but the registered retirement savings plan appeals primarily to those Canadians who already have discretionary income to put into an RRSP. That taxable benefit to higher wage earners costs the tax system quite a lot of money. If we look at it as a public policy question, we see it is not clear that the RRSPs make sense.

The Canada pension plan makes abundant sense, and we know right now that two-thirds of Canadians no longer have any workplace pension. Workplace pensions are disappearing. More and more Canadians have inadequate savings for retirement, so the workplace pension plans are shrinking at the same time as we have what is sometimes called the grey tsunami. We know we have a demographic with many more people about to enter retirement.

By the way, I commend the government for returning the retirement age to 65; that is commendable. However, we do need to enhance CPP benefits. There is no question that overall the bill is going in the right direction. We know that right now the median value of retirement assets for Canadians between age 55 and 64, with no accrued employer pension benefit, is under $4,000. We know we need to augment the CPP. Only one in five Canadians have adequately saved for their retirement.

It is all well and good for some members of this place to say that Canadians should plan ahead and it is their responsibility to figure out how to save for their retirement. This is a very small cost of a public program, with the cost split between the employer and the employee, to make sure that people have adequate savings for retirement. The reason people do not put aside money for retirement is generally that they lack disposable income because the other costs of daily life eclipse their ability to set aside money for retirement.

I urge my friends on the other side of the House to embrace expansion of CPP. I agree with the analysis of the Canadian Association of Retired Persons. It does really good work on public policy and commends the bill as well.

That brings me to the point where I wish we had time in this place and I wish the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development could have provided, at committee, by accepting amendments, a fix to what looked initially like an oversight, and that is the dropout provisions for disability and child rearing to ensure gender parity. Both ministers have said that they can fix this problem by renegotiating terms with the provinces. I wish they had fixed it while they had the chance at committee. They still have the opportunity to fix it, if they are willing to accept amendments when we get through this process. However, at this point there has been no sign of a willingness to accept amendments, and we are left hoping for public pressure to continue what both ministers say they are willing to do by changing the terminology in the negotiated agreements with the provinces.

It is very hard to understand how this oversight has not been fixed already. The conclusion that my friends in the NDP have reached appears an inescapable conclusion. On the evidence we have before us, it appears that the bill will disadvantage women for no apparent reason other than an oversight. I did have a brief moment to discuss this with the Minister of Finance earlier this morning, and his position is that to do what the NDP asks now would result in a transfer of wealth from poorer women to wealthier women because of the way the calculation works. Unfortunately, I do not have the full facts on this. I had a 30-second conversation with the Minister of Finance, which is what happens when there is time allocation and inadequate time for debate.

I am left with the dreadful conclusion that, with the chance to bring in a really strong bill that would have no negatives attached to it, which is what Bill C-26 was when I first read it, it needs to be fixed. The NDP spotted this problem. I commend the NDP for spotting it. With that, I will close.

Report StageCanada Pension PlanGovernment Orders

12:45 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the words from the leader of the Green Party. She mentioned that the NDP has spotted a problem. There are issues that the Minister of Finance has clearly indicated that he intends to raise going forward. The bill we have before us is a bill that has been negotiated among the different provinces and the national government. Both she and I sat in opposition for many years, watching the Conservatives virtually ignore a very important file to Canadians; that is, an increase to CPP.

The question I have for the member now is this—and I know she is very knowledgeable about the rules and process and so forth of the House. When we have an official opposition that is in complete opposition to a particular bill, and its intention is to kill the bill, would she not agree that sometimes it is necessary to use time allocation as a tool; that if we forfeit that tool and do not use it, ultimately, the official opposition will be able to talk indefinitely, thereby potentially even killing the bill? Would she not, at the very least, acknowledge that, at times, there is a need to use the tool known as time allocation?