House of Commons Hansard #104 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was liberal.

Topics

Minister of International TradePrivilegeOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise this afternoon on a question of privilege on the manner in which the Minister of International Trade has been treating Parliament and due process in relation to the comprehensive economic and trade agreement between Canada and the EU. The flagrant disrespect of Parliament shown by the minister and her government is alarming and unwarranted, but more importantly, the impact of this disrespect has obstructed me in the discharge of my duties as a member of Parliament.

I will, through the course of my remarks, ask the Speaker to agree with my belief that there exists a prima facie case that my privileges as a member of Parliament have been breached, and I will be prepared to move the appropriate motion should the Speaker agree with my intervention.

Before getting to the matter at hand, I would like to remind the House that obstruction in the discharge of parliamentary duties can take many forms, both physical and non-physical. House of Commons Procedure and Practice, second edition, tells us, at pages 108 and 109:

If an Hon. Member is impeded or obstructed in the performance of his or her parliamentary duties through threats, intimidation, bribery attempts or other improper behaviour, such a case would fall within the limits of parliamentary privilege. Should an Hon. Member be able to say that something has happened which prevented him or her from performing functions...there would be a case for the Chair to consider.

I will beg the House's indulgence to provide the proper context of what has happened and give an account of events leading up to this question of privilege. I will start with the facts of the matter at hand.

To begin with, the Government of Canada adopted a policy on the tabling of treaties in Parliament in 2008. That policy sets out specific guidelines and timelines on how international treaties will be presented to Parliament for debate and consideration. In section 6.2, “Tabling period for Treaties”, the policy states:

b. For treaties that require implementing legislation before the Government can proceed to ratification, acceptance, approval or accession...the Government will:

Observe a waiting period of at least twenty-one sitting days before the introduction of the necessary implementing legislation in Parliament;

On Friday, October 28, the Minister of International Trade put an act to implement the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement between Canada and the European Union and its member states and to provide for certain other measures on the Notice Paper, even before having signed the treaty. The Government of Canada signed CETA two days later, on Sunday, October 30. The Minister of International Trade tabled CETA in the House on Monday, October 31, and not 21 sittings days but about 21 seconds later, she introduced Bill C-30 to implement the provisions of CETA.

The Minister of International Trade and the government are aware of this policy and obligation to Parliament. They have respected it as recently as this fall with regard to the Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement. On September 19, 2016, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Trade laid upon the table a copy of the free trade agreement between Canada and Ukraine and an explanatory memorandum.

Twenty-eight sitting days later, which was this morning, as it turns out, and in full compliance with the policy, the Minister of International Trade introduced Bill C-31, an act to implement the free trade agreement between Canada and Ukraine. However, in the case of CETA, the government acted in direct violation of its own policy when it came to the tabling of the treaty and the introduction of the implementing legislation that followed immediately afterward.

Furthermore, the policy statement in the government's policy is as follows:

The Minister of Foreign Affairs will initiate the tabling of all instruments, accompanied by a brief Explanatory Memorandum in the House of Commons following their adoption by signature or otherwise, and prior to Canada's expression of its consent to be bound by ratification, acceptance, approval or accession.

This policy provision was followed when the Canada-Ukraine FTA was laid on the table and is something we are used to hearing the minister and her parliamentary secretary announce when they table international treaties, agreements, and other similar documents in the House. The explanatory memorandum is an important piece of this process, so important, in fact, that it has its own provisions in the policy on tabling of treaties in Parliament. Section 6.4 of the policy states:

An Explanatory Memorandum will accompany each treaty that is tabled in the House of Commons.

a. The purpose of the Explanatory Memorandum is to provide the House of Commons with information regarding the content of the Treaty.

The document tabled by the minister on Monday was over 1,700 pages long, so an explanatory memorandum is particularly important in this case. Further, a long list is given of what materials must be included in the explanatory memorandum.

Among other items, the policy states that the explanatory memorandum will cover the following points.

First is subject matter. Second is a national interest summary. Third are policy considerations and how the treaty's obligations and their implementation will be consistent with the government's policies. Fourth are federal-provincial-territorial jurisdictional implications. Fifth are time considerations, with any upcoming dates or events that make the ratification a matter of priority. Sixth is a brief description of how the treaty will be implemented in Canadian law, including a description of the legislative or other authority under which it will fall, and seventh is a description of the consultations undertaken with the House of Commons, self-governing aboriginal governments, other government departments, and non-governmental organizations prior to the conclusion of the treaty, as appropriate.

There may have been 1,700 pages tabled by the Minister of International Trade on Monday, but there was no explanatory memorandum accompanying them, blatantly showing that the Government of Canada was negligent in fulfilling its obligations under this policy.

The government responded to a question on the Order Paper from the member for Battlefords—Lloydminster in a particularly alarming way. The member for Battlefords—Lloydminster put a question on the Order Paper on May 3, 2016. Among other things, Question No. 193 asked:

With regard to the Minister of International Trade and the Canada-European Union: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: (a) when did the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development start drafting an Explanatory Memorandum for tabling with the treaty; (b) what deadline was given to the department in order to draft an Explanatory Memorandum; (c) will the Minister table a copy of the Canada-European Union: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement and Explanatory Memorandum, and, if so, when;

The minister's honesty about violating her own policy is commendable, however alarming. She responded on September 19 by saying:

Mr. Speaker, with regard to parts (a) and (b), Global Affairs Canada, GAC, has not been tasked with drafting an explanatory memorandum for the tabling of the Canada-European Union Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA.

This question was first asked in May and was responded to four and a half months later with a response essentially indicating that the government intends to violate its own policy obligations to Parliament.

The government had time to react. The minister could have realized that Canada was in the process of negotiating a complex and multilayered treaty with 28 countries and that she would have an obligation to fulfill when she tabled the treaty, but she chose not to. Even after she responded to the member for Battlefords—Lloydminster on September 19, she still had another 42 days to instruct her officials to respect Canadians and their duly elected representatives in Parliament, but she chose not to.

Clearly, there was enough time to prepare. Europe is indicating that it is still not on board with CETA, so the timelines that are being presented to us provide more than enough time for the minister and Global Affairs to fulfill this obligation to me as a parliamentarian and to everyone who sits in the House.

On May 5, 1987, at page 5766 of Debates, Speaker Fraser stated:

The privileges of a Member are violated by any action which might impede him or her in the fulfilment of his or her duties and functions.

Seventeen hundred pages is a lot for any parliamentarian to digest. We need to do a full analysis. We need time to do so, and the time that is normally allocated needs to be respected by the minister for all members in the House so that we can have the full information and analysis necessary to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of this agreement.

Furthermore, the international trade committee is now being asked to pre-study the bill four days after the 1,700-page document and the 131-page bill were tabled. That is unacceptable.

I am aware that the minister's own policy on the tabling of treaties in Parliament is not governed by the Standing Orders of the House, but given the context of what has transpired over the past week, it is undeniably true that my ability, and the ability of all members of Parliament, to properly discharge our functions, to properly study and analyze more than 1,700 pages of text, and to adequately scrutinize government proposals and legislation are being impeded by the Minister of International Trade's deliberate decision to violate her own policy.

She had time to remedy the situation regarding the explanatory memorandum, and she did not. She had time to table the treaty and wait 21 sitting days before introducing the legislation, but she did not.

I think that you, Mr. Speaker, would be the first to agree that all members of Parliament are equal in their privileges in this House of Commons and that no one should be interfered with or disadvantaged in any way in the discharge of their duties as a member of Parliament, especially by other members in this House.

Mr. Speaker, if you find that there was a prima facie breach of my privileges as a member, I am prepared to move the appropriate motion.

Minister of International TradePrivilegeOral Questions

3:20 p.m.

Waterloo Ontario

Liberal

Bardish Chagger LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister of Small Business and Tourism

Mr. Speaker, first of all, it is an opposition day, and the member should not be taking time out of the time for debate on the motion they have spent time working on.

I have listened to the member opposite, and I do not believe this matter constitutes a prima facie question of privilege. What the member is referring to is a matter of policy and not a question of parliamentary procedure. As such, this does not constitute a contempt of the House.

I reserve the right to return to the House with a further intervention on the issue.

Minister of International TradePrivilegeOral Questions

3:20 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Mr. Speaker, I would also ask if I could reserve the right to look at this further and bring some comments back at a later date.

Minister of International TradePrivilegeOral Questions

3:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

I thank the hon. member for Essex, the hon. government House leader, and the hon. opposition House leader for their interventions on this matter and thank the hon. member for Essex for bringing this to the attention of the House.

I will take these comments under advisement, and as was noted, other members may wish to intervene at a later time on the question as well.

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

Mr. Speaker, it is my privilege to speak to the opposition day motion today, brought forward by my colleague from Red Deer—Lacombe. I want to thank him for his speech this morning and the work that he has done on this file, but I also want to say as I begin, that I will be sharing my time with the member for Lévis—Lotbinière, and he will have some very encouraging words to say on this topic as well.

No Canadian would ever have thought that one year out in the Liberal's new administration the House of Commons would be debating their fundraising practices and lack of ethics, although it may not be a surprise. As we all remember, every minister was given clear instructions in their mandate letters to go as far as guaranteeing that even a perceived conflict of interest should be avoided at all costs.

Our democracy belongs to every Canadian and in that includes access to members of Parliament, parliamentary secretaries, and yes, even ministers of the crown. Nowhere in our Constitution or even in the standing orders does it say there is a $1,500 entrance fee to be able to talk to those who govern our great country.

As an example of why the issue of special access to ministers should be a concern for all Canadians, we find out that those with deep pockets, vested interests, and the need to bend the ear of a Liberal cabinet minister seem to get special access, that those willing to write a large cheque get to cut the line.

I would like to take this opportunity to let the government know that I, as an elected official representing the good people of Brandon—Souris, have had to wait months and months to get a simple acknowledgement from Liberal ministers regarding a constituent's concern. I wondered what was taking all the time and attention of the ministers, and now I know. They were out soliciting donations rather than ensuring their office was responding to correspondence from members of Parliament.

The motion at hand, which we are discussing today, is more than just dealing with political fundraising. It goes into a much deeper issue of how members of the Liberal government use the power entrusted in them by the electorate and misuse their positions to fill the coffers of the Liberal Party. Watching the Liberals, it is no wonder Canadians distrust politicians. They say one thing, and in this specific case the Prime Minister put it in his mandate letters to his ministers, and then they go out and do the complete opposite.

Now this would not be the first broken promise from the government. It was just a matter of weeks after the Liberals were elected that we found out their plan to create a new tax bracket was in fact not cost neutral with their other changes to tax brackets. Liberal candidates also swore up and down that they would only run an itty-bitty $10-billion deficit. I only wish that the Liberal government was as good at managing the finances of our country and ensuring that our economy was growing as they are with arranging $1,500 pay-for-play fundraisers.

According to a recent Globe and Mail report, they are well on their way to doing a hundred of these special pay-to-play Liberal fundraisers in 2016 alone.

This is exactly why Canadians notoriously rank politicians low on the issue of trust. Almost every single day these past few weeks, we have learned of another Liberal fundraising event either being hosted in a Bay Street law office or a corporate boardroom where writing a cheque, hopefully with a couple of zeros attached, would pave the way to an intimate conversation with a minister of the crown.

Now it begs for us to wonder, where did the Liberals get the idea that it is okay to use their ministers to seek donations to pay for the operations of their Liberal headquarters?

To those who are paying close attention to this issue, the answer is easy. We only have to look down the 401 to see Liberal Premier Kathleen Wynne's fantastic antics. Her government also got caught up in a lapse of ethical judgment, and now have gone so far as to draft legislation to completely ban these sorts of fundraising events.

Now I am not suggesting that members of Parliament and ministers should completely remove themselves from raising funds for their own individual campaigns. I'm simply suggesting that this Liberal government stops holding high-priced fundraisers in corporate boardrooms and Bay Street law offices, where there is a very perceived conflict of interest. I would suggest that our Liberal ministers start raising funds at spaghetti dinners or barbecues held in the backyards of their own supporters' homes. It is not appropriate whatsoever to be actively seeking large cheques from those who clearly have a vested interest in government dealings.

In my neck of the woods, it is very common for constituents to write small donations to the political party of their choice. In some circumstances, there will be a large gathering where people from all walks and backgrounds gather to raise funds for a local campaign. Our party, the Conservative Party, collects small donations from hundreds of thousands of Canadians annually. These Canadians do not want to land a government contract nor do they hope that their company will receive government largesse. They believe in our party because we stand up for those people who work hard, pay their taxes, and play by the rules. It is these Canadians who are deeply committed to upholding the values and principles of our democracy.

I urge all Liberal members of Parliament to go back to their constituencies this weekend and ask people from their communities if they think it is right that those people writing $1,500 cheques to the Liberal Party should be able to have preferential access to ministers of the crown. They can ask farmers, who work 12 hours a day, if they think Liberal ministers should be spending so much of their time seeking donations, or they can ask small business owners if Liberal ministers should spend more time thinking of ways to grow the economy than seeking funds from the one percenters.

Perhaps before my colleagues from across the way get on a plane to go home this weekend to ask their constituents for their views, they should maybe stop and chat with Mary Dawson, the Ethics Commissioner, because she said that Canadians should be concerned about the Liberal government's pay-to-play fundraisers. She even said that these sorts of fundraisers are “unsavoury”, and she questioned whether people were getting fair access. After my Liberal colleagues are done chatting with the Ethics Commissioner, they should speak with the Commissioner of Lobbying, who said that these fundraisers create “real or apparent conflicts of interest”.

This issue is not that complex. In fact, this issue is not even ideological or partisan in nature. It is misusing the offices of power and those offices should be above any political disagreement.

I call upon my Liberal colleagues to stand up against their party brass and do what is right. They should call upon their party leaders to stop these dodgy fundraisers. As elected members of Parliament, we should not be so focused on filling the coffers of political parties. We should be focused on improving the quality of life for Canadians and, in doing so, improve the level of trust in this institution. As I said, our democracy belongs to every single Canadian. I would like to believe that we live in a country where, no matter where we are from or the amount of change we have in our pockets, it will not limit the ability to make our voices heard in the government.

Furthermore, there is no Liberal who can stand here with a straight face and say he or she is not breaking the spirit and intent of the Prime Minister's instructions when he said:

If we want Canadians to trust their government, we need a government that trusts Canadians. It is important that we acknowledge mistakes when we make them. Canadians do not expect us to be perfect—they expect us to be honest, open, and sincere in our efforts to serve the public interest.

The Prime Minister even went as far as to say:

...you...must uphold the highest standards of honesty and impartiality, and both the performance of your official duties.... This is an obligation that is not fully discharged by simply acting within the law.

It is abundantly clear that if the Liberal government and its ministers do not immediately end the practice of high-priced pay for access fundraisers, they will continue to be in direct contradiction of their own mandate letters. The defence of standing up every day and saying, “Everything is all right here, move along” is not acceptable. It is not fooling Canadians one bit.

Every day the Liberal ministers continue to organize and collect fundraising cheques in this manner, it only further erodes the confidence of Canadians in our political process. While dubious Liberal fundraising practices brought down a previous administration and caused a judicial commission, it is only in the Liberals' best interests to stop what they are currently doing and admit that it is wrong before the inevitable outcome of a political scandal, again.

While the government will stand up and spend its political capital on defending these practices, I can assure the Liberals it will not pay off in the long run. We have read this story before and we know how it ends. Trust me, a Liberal usually ends up in some form of political purgatory.

I call on all members of the House to vote in favour of the motion. It has been said before that we cannot legislate common sense, but I certainly hope that by shining lights on these sketchy fundraising practices, the government will call off its Liberal party bagmen, fire up the barbecue, and invite their local supporters over to their backyards for a $5 hamburger. There could be nothing more Canadian than that.

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the member that relates to the actual substance of the motion.

A lot of the debate today does not go to the substance of the motion, it goes to what people feel about pay for play. I do not think any of us like pay for play. Let us talk about the substance. The substance is that the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner should be granted the authority to oversee and enforce “Open and Accountable Government” directives, which are not law.

We have a commissioner who is there to enforce laws adopted by Parliament. That is something that was issued by one Prime Minister and could be overwritten in a new document issued by another Prime Minister.

The Conservative Party now has a leadership convention, and I am sure they are going to issue rules for fundraising for leadership contenders. Do the Conservatives agree that the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner should have the right to oversee those rules issued to Conservatives running for their own leadership?

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

Mr. Speaker, I would challenge the premise of the member's question.

Clearly, this is about the Ethics Commissioner's ability to look into this type of leadership, which the Liberals' own Prime Minister has put down in the mandate letters to his ministers and said they cannot even have a perceived problem with fundraising in their areas.

It an ethics question, not a law question. I challenge the premise of the question based on that. I do not believe that my colleague across the way is listening. Obviously, as I said earlier, and maybe he was not listening, but common sense cannot be legislated. This is a situation where the Liberals are not following their own Prime Minister's rules.

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, when we look at pay to play, and I hear the Liberal member across the floor saying that no one likes pay to play, but they are still doing it.

Let us look at October 13, when a private Liberal fundraiser was held at the home of a developer in Halifax at $1,500 a person. The Liberal government says it is open and accessible. When I bring that home to people in my riding, when I talk to my friend Mike at the mill, and tell them that for the $1,500, we are actually giving a tax subsidy of $650, they say that is an expensive lobster. It is something for them to chew on and they are having a tough time chewing on it.

I think about fairness. We talked about doing things differently. I love to hear members talk about how we need to make sure it is accessible for everybody. Would it not be more accessible if we got rid of the limit of $1,500, if we got rid of the system we have and went back to a system that was more fair? We could look at per vote subsidies, where every vote counts, where everybody is treated equally. We could get rid of this unfair playing field that we are on right now with this unfair pay to play.

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

Mr. Speaker, I differ with my colleague on that as well.

We had that situation in Manitoba when I was a member there. It has been eliminated. It has been eliminated here in the House. There is nothing more fair than the type of system we have today, where people can go out and solicit up to $1,525. There is a tax credit, but everyone knows what it is and that it is available to them. Therefore, they cannot donate more than that. That is a lot of money, in many cases, $1,525, and it has been indexed over the years. It was not quite that high to start with.

I would say that compared with some other countries in the world, and we have neighbours that are in an election at this time, where there are millions of dollars that can be donated by any one individual, our system is very fair.

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Mr. Speaker, we heard from the Liberals that they are living up to the highest ethical standards and so on.

The member spoke about common sense. To me, common sense would say that if they are living up to the highest ethical standards, why would they not let the Ethics Commissioner take a look at this? What is it the Liberals are hiding?

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that. The highest ethical standards for the Liberals still may leave something to be desired. It is very clear in the Prime Minister's mandate letters, part of which reads, “Canadians do not expect us to be perfect – they expect us to be honest, open, and sincere in our efforts to serve the public interest.”

People have actually been appointed by the government to different areas. This never ever happened under a Conservative government. That is the difference between what happens today and before. Today, they are organizing some of those fundraising events and collecting $1,500 cheques to have access.

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take part in this important debate on the Liberal Party's antiquated culture of political financing.

As everyone knows, the Liberal Party has many new faces who, unfortunately, will find themselves in embarrassing situations just because they are subject to a culture of dodgy fundraising and a clear lack of ethics that ensures that preferential access to ministers of the Liberal government is for sale or lease.

We recognize that all parties and all members of government do political fundraising for their own election campaign and the partisan activities of their party. Personally, I do not have a problem with MPs of any party attending fundraisers as long as they do so in their capacity as the MP for their riding.

There is a problem when a Liberal MP in his capacity as minister invites certain Canadians with specific interests to a partisan fundraiser and charges $1,500, or any other amount. That is problematic to me, because we are in a grey area.

This gives rise to a conflict of interest, or the appearance of a conflict of interest, preferential access, or the appearance of preferential access, and I would go so far as to say influence, or the appearance of influence. The role of minister is very important in our parliamentary system. It is incumbent upon these individuals to demonstrate the greatest integrity possible when making future decisions for our country.

It is very important to distinguish between “providing information” and “trying to influence the ministerial direction” or even a minister's judgment. A good minister must steer clear of outside influences.

Unfortunately, members will have undoubtedly noticed, thanks to the issues that I and the media have raised, that this is not what we have seen in the past year with this string of Liberal Party of Canada fundraisers.

Thus, it is quite reasonable and legitimate to devote one day to shedding light on these shady practices and to ask the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner to enforce and oversee the directives established in the document “Open and Accountable Government”. This document was released by the Prime Minister himself to ensure that his directives are followed and not forgotten.

Despite how strict and comprehensive Canada's political financing legislation is, we still have to examine it even more closely and call upon the services of the commissioner in light of the Liberal approach to fundraising taken thus far.

The specific goal is to ensure that no preferential access to government, or appearance of preferential access, is accorded to individuals or organizations because they have made financial contributions to the Liberal Party. People should not be given privileged access in exchange for donations.

As I have already said in the House, my only reason for mentioning a few situations that have come to light and that already seem suspect is wanting to protect the integrity of cabinet positions. I hope that the members opposite will one day thank me for saving them from the same fate that other members of their party have met in court. What members of the Liberal Party will be sentenced 20 years from now because of this culture? I hope that all of our debates will help to protect them from the most senior members of the party or from themselves.

The problem in the case that was recently made public is that a current minister was the honorary chair of a fundraiser organized by an “interest” group that just so happens to have an interest in that department. What a coincidence.

These sorts of events are generally quite the social affairs. People pay $1,500 to eat canapés and drink a glass or two of wine and are given privileged access to discuss very specific issues. In this case, there were groups of 20 to 40 people, which translates into $30,000 to $60,000 in donations. Did people really spend all of that money just to rub shoulders with the minister? Of course, as a bonus, they also get to listen to the wonderful speech that is given.

Let us be serious. Between 20 and 40 people are being given a specially-prepared opportunity to emphasize the importance of their vision, their direction, and their projects, which often require public funds.

For me and many others who know the difference, that is called a closed-door discussion. That discussion will influence the direction of policies and programs for the benefit of a minority rather than for all Canadians. That is unacceptable.

It is one of the reasons I urge the members across the aisle who have been appointed as ministers to protect themselves from this dishonest fundraising practice for their own sake and for the sake of Canadians. It is up to them to have, from the outset, the good judgment to refuse this type of activity, however lucrative and appealing it may be for the Liberal Party. The end does not justify the means in fundraising for the Liberal Party.

It is very unfortunate that my colleagues across the aisle are acquiescing in this moribund theatre of bad taste. In all humility, I am saying that with the aim of protecting them, but especially with the greater aim of ensuring that Canadians are not disillusioned once again with our political system because of the Liberal Party.

Sooner or later, this influence peddling will inevitably lead to unhappy consequences such as sanctions. We saw that this week, when we heard the findings of the Charbonneau Commission, as Jacques Corriveau, a former member of the Liberal Party of Canada, was found guilty of illegal political fundraising.

As the old saying goes, cheaters never prosper. Let’s make sure that in the future, the Liberal Party of Canada does not have to repay money it should never have received. As many will have guessed, I am referring to the $40 million that is taking a long time to get back into the hands of taxpayers.

It would be a great gesture of humility on the part of the Prime Minister if he apologized to the Canadian people for illegal fundraising by the Liberal Party of Canada and if he made sure not only that that culture vanishes but also that the money stolen from taxpayers is returned to them.

In closing, I have absolutely no intention of frightening young children with scarecrows wearing red ties, or with skeletons rising from the coffers of the Liberal Party of Canada, but it is important to me to give all of my Liberal colleagues a friendly warning, a reminder to all those appointed as ministers: they should never forget what a privilege they are being granted to serve our country with integrity for the good of future generations.

I have the following advice for them: for the sake of all Canadians, they should never be forced into making a decision that would go against Canadian principles and values. My esteemed ministerial colleagues can be certain that history will judge them on the decisions they make and on the repercussions those decisions will have for the well-being of the entire Canadian community.

With regard to these ministerial fundraising events, I wonder whether the ministers opposite are able to sleep well at night. I worry about their getting enough sleep, because it is very important to be able to live with one’s conscience regarding the decisions one makes for the entire country. It is also important to be able to look at oneself in the mirror, head held high, and have the feeling of having done one’s duty without having been influenced or bothered by a fundraising stratagem that is at odds with one’s judgement and conscience.

I thank all my colleagues for their attention, and I hope that my good advice will benefit this new generation of new politicians whose only flaw, in my opinion, is that of having chosen a superficial, seductive party that bases its policies solely on short-term appeal and popularity. That party misuses popular words in speeches designed to please and shows many photos of smiley, happy people. In reality, however, it is deceptive and does not generate truly positive results for our security or economy, and it does nothing to protect or create jobs in Canada.

It must be said that, a year ago, the Prime Minister’s document entitled “Open and Accountable Government” got some good press, but it is sad to note that, under this government, many people hear what they want to hear; there are no concrete results, and existing laws are not being obeyed.

I hope that, between now and the next election, many people will choose to jump the Liberal ship before it sinks with what little savings we have left.

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:45 p.m.

Brampton West Ontario

Liberal

Kamal Khera LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health

Mr. Speaker, I listened to my colleague very carefully. It really frustrates me when the opposition tries to confuse the House and Canadians listening to this debate. Let me be very clear. There is no preferential access to our government. In fact, we are engaging, consulting, and listening to Canadians.

Over the summer, I held 10 town halls on different issues in my riding of Brampton West. I was proud to have ministers and parliamentary secretaries attend these town halls to engage, to take feedback, and to answer any questions from my constituents. The Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Democratic Institutions, and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence attended.

How can the member opposite say that there is preferential access when all these town halls were open to the public and they were absolutely free?

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to respond to my colleague and to hear her confirm that, in these budget consultations and other consultations, ministers travelled across Canada, and after the consultations, they raised money. That simply means that ministers used taxpayers’ money to travel around and raise funds for the Liberal Party. How shameful!

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased with my colleague’s speech, and I would like to ask him a very specific question.

Over the past few days, whenever we in the NDP or members of the Conservative Party questioned the Liberal government about ministers’ behaviour and attitude regarding preferential access to partisan fundraising events, we were told that everything is fine because the law was obeyed. However, in section IV.1 of the document entitled “Open and Accountable Government”, we are told that ministers “have an obligation to perform their official duties and arrange their private affairs in a manner that will bear the closest public scrutiny. This obligation is not fully discharged merely by acting within the law.”

I would like to hear my colleague explain how the Liberal Party can say one thing and do the opposite.

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question. Part of my speech was in reference to that.

Suppose we are ministers and a fundraising event is organized by our own party, in this case the Liberal Party. Suppose as well that the honorary chair, that is, the minister of a particular department, is mentioned on the ticket, and that 20, 30 or 40 people, all with roughly the same interest, pay $1,500 each to attend. Do you think they are just going to listen to the minister’s brief address, drink two glasses of wine and enjoy some hors-d’oeuvres? Those people will want to talk about their specific interests, the interests and directions they want to take, and even the funding that the department should provide to their organization. That is a conflict of interest.

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. I will ask the question again.

The opposition motion before us requests that the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner essentially be responsible for interpreting and managing a document that is not a law. The commissioner is an officer of Parliament. She is responsible for interpreting an act of Parliament and helping us with an act of Parliament. This is not an act of Parliament.

So, if the Conservative Party creates rules for Conservative leadership candidates, does the member believe it would be feasible and a good idea for the commissioner to be responsible for interpreting the document for those candidates?

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC

Mr. Speaker, here in the House, we draft laws together with Elections Canada to govern all political fundraising practices of all parties combined. If we go to the trouble of making laws with Elections Canada for Elections Canada in order to justify where and from whom that money comes, I think it is quite legitimate for us to have taken the day, today, to raise this issue of great importance to Canadian democracy. Unfortunately, the Canadian people are sick of seeing what is going on across the aisle in the House.

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Arnold Chan Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would normally say that I am pleased to join the debate on most matters that come before this House, but today is not one of those days. Let me say why, before we get the usual cackles and heckles from the other side. It is because of the type of conversation and particularly the use of language coming from the official opposition. I accept that there is a legitimate role for the opposition to call into account and to question the choices made by the government, but the deliberate use of language like “pay to play” and “cash for access” is not helpful in our democracy. While I accept that there are legitimate questions that the opposition should pose to the government, this type of language ultimately demeans the overall participation and the confidence of Canadians in our political process.

I first want to get back to the whole nature of political fundraising and the fact that all of us in this House participate in that process in order to both fund our individual campaigns within our respective ridings and also participate in the process to support our political party. That is part of our system. Canadians can participate in our democratic process in a multitude of ways. They do so in part by volunteering in our campaigns, they express their particular opinions and positions to their elected officials, and they also participate by way of donating money. That is part of our democratic process.

At the end of the day, the key for me is this. What are the checks and balances that are put on our system? I would remind folks that we are dealing with human nature. If someone makes a donation to a member, or if someone is providing volunteers to a particular member's political campaign, it is human nature, it is natural, that the member would perhaps view that person in different light than he or she might view someone who is highly critical of his or her position or political party. That is human nature. We understand that. However, the question is whether there are appropriate checks and balances placed on our political system as it relates to fundraising and the conduct of the government of the day.

I would suggest that there are basically four criteria that have evolved over a series of reforms to the political financing system. It started back in 1974, but it has subsequently moved through to, more recently, 2003.

There are basically four criteria that ultimately have an impact with respect to circumscribing the potential view that the government is providing preferential access.

The first is the change with respect to who can contribute. This change was brought about in the reforms of 2003, which limited contributions to individuals and removed the capacity of corporations and unions to make political donations.

The second is how much each individual can contribute, which is again an evolved practice. The major concern back in 1974 with the first set of reforms was the view that large corporations had undue influence due to the large amounts they could contribute to parties, and that was subsequently circumscribed in the reforms that took place in 2003, which limited individual donations to $5,000.

Then, to be fair to the Conservative Party on the other side, when it came into power it decided to lower that threshold down to $1,000. There has been a gradual adjustment upward, and now the figure rests at $1,525, and there is a built-in mechanism within the election financing provisions to allow that to grow by $25 a year. Therefore, this year individuals can donate up to $1,525 to political parties, can donate up to $1,525 to individual riding associations, and can then make a one-time contribution to leadership candidates for the same amount.

The third important thing is caps. The cap is a really good thing that exists within the Canadian political system, when we compare it to what we are seeing south of the border. We have strict limits with respect to the quantum of spending that can take place in a political campaign. Caps are placed on political parties and caps are placed at the individual riding level. Those caps are major constraints from the undue influence of financing on our political system. That is quite different from what we see south of the border.

The fourth is the reform that is taking place, and to be fair, a reform that was introduced by the previous government. It deals with the issue of public reporting and transparency with respect to donations. What basically has been done ensures that any donation that is over $200—it started out as $100—and up to the donation limit must be transparently and publicly reported. It is that transparency that provides the ultimate check in terms of the perception of undue influence or preferential access given to any particular participant in the political process.

My colleagues on this side of the House and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health have noted that, when it comes to the issue of consultation, this particular political party has provided unprecedented levels of consultation with Canadians since it took power in 2015. We have been engaging incessantly, consulting on a broad range of issues. I will be frank: I am literally inundated by requests from various ministers to consult on their particular mandate items, to make sure they get feedback from Canadians and to provide that report to the ministers so that they can take that into account as part of the government's decision-making process.

In my riding of Scarborough—Agincourt I have held several town halls and consulted with my constituents on a wide variety of issues. I have also worked in concert with my fellow members from the Scarborough area to collaboratively bring issues to the public, ranging from electoral reform, to Canada Post, to the environment, to defence, to the economy. Next week, we will be gathered together again, and I am taking this opportunity to invite those who want to participate to join the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance in a pre-budget public consultation with respect to the direction the government is taking.

We are extremely accessible to all Canadians, and we remain accessible in a variety of ways. We can be accessed through our constituency offices or here in Ottawa. We take feedback through letters, online, or by way of the telephone. All members treasure the opportunity to get that feedback as part of our political process. We should all be exceptionally proud of that.

The bottom line is that we all follow the rules. We follow the rules in the open and transparent ways I laid out, and that circumscribes the perception that there is any undue influence.

I particularly find it rich that we are getting a lecture from the Conservative Party, a party that literally took the issues of ethics, political financing, and electoral accountability to new lows. They were such lows that Canadians responded, quite rightly, in the last election in a rather vociferous way as to how they felt there was a complete lack of transparency coming from that other side. In case my friends on the opposite side, particularly those in the official opposition, are having some trouble with respect to that particular issue, let me take them down memory lane and remind them of some of the troubles we have faced that came from the opposition.

In question period today the member for Carleton asked a question of the President of the Treasury Board. The President of the Treasury Board rightly reminded us that it was the Conservative government that took the issue of partisan government advertising to unprecedented levels, taking essentially what are government resources for partisan personal gain.

The Conservative government awarded unprecedented numbers of contracts to parties outside of government at unprecedented levels, to the point that nearly $1 billion in spending took place over the previous government's mandate, for advertising that was really about driving the government's re-election plan; things like the so-called economic action plan. Members will recall that those particular ads seemed to be in a particularly interesting colour that was somewhat similar to the party colours of the current official opposition, which was using essentially what was the cash or the resources of government for its partisan political purposes.

I am proud that we are part of a government that has instituted a process to ban this type of practice and that there is an independent review.

There are appropriate times for the government to advertise, particularly as it relates to providing public information, but it should not be featuring members of the government in those particular informational ads, which is quite different from, for example, the practice of the member for Carleton when he was serving as a government minister.

Let us go to the second particular issue. Let us look at the actual changes to the Canada Elections Act itself.

This is, again, a subject matter where the previous government, the Conservative government, tried to use the rules to disproportionately benefit itself. For example, let me remind members that the Conservatives, interestingly, just before the previous election, decided to suddenly raise the individual contribution limit, which at that time had been $1,200, up to $1,500. Then, subsequently, during the election itself, they changed the rules within the Canada Elections Act to allow the amount of compensation coming back to political parties to be increased the longer the writ period was and to allow them to use the spending advantage they had as the incumbent governing party at the time, more so than the other political parties. Doubling from the traditional 37-day campaign to an unprecedented 77-day campaign, which we had not seen since the 1800s, allowed the parties and individual ridings themselves to spend more than double the traditional amount that would be permissible in a particular election campaign.

They thought that would give them an electoral advantage. Luckily, Canadians saw through that particular action.

Then let us look at the activities of the previous Conservative government. I raise this with some regret, but I think it is important to remind ourselves as we engage in this debate that it was in fact the Conservative Party that had some real ethical breaches with respect to its particular practices.

Remember, it was in fact under the Conservative Party itself that actual convictions took place under the Canada Elections Act. For example, there was a particular scheme, known as the in-and-out scheme. That took place in the 2006 election and saw an unprecedented number of Conservative ridings, 67 to be exact, see $1.3 million get shuffled in and out of their ridings in order to try to hide advertising that was done for a national purpose and, yet, was attributable to ridings that could not spend up to their election limits. That allowed those particular riding associations to claim a larger rebate than they were otherwise entitled to and allowed the Conservative Party to spend more money than was allowed under the cap that was imposed on political parties.

Elections Canada said that violated the rules. The Conservative Party knew there were going to be convictions on that particular matter and, as a result, ultimately chose to negotiate a settlement before it would be found in actual violation of the Canada Elections Act.

Let us remind ourselves of who one of the main parties was in that particular election scheme. I believe the gentleman's name was Irving Gerstein, who was actually appointed a senator. Again, I contrast how the Conservative Party has treated the Senate, which, of course, it uses for its partisan fundraising purposes. I can think of another senator, good old Senator Michael Duffy, who was expressly recruited into the Conservative caucus for fundraising purposes.

These charges were laid and ultimately resolved without having to go to criminal court, because the Conservative Party knew that it was ultimately in the wrong.

Let us remember that when we are dealing with the issue of partisan fundraising, all of us participate in this particular process. However, it is important that we ensure that it is done above board.

To continue with the points I made earlier, namely about the constraints imposed on political financing and who can contribute, to be fair, these have been even further narrowed to the point that now only citizens or those who are permanent residents can contribute. The quantum that can be contributed is relatively circumscribed. The strict spending limits imposed both on ridings and political parties are important and one of the critical constraints that ultimately limit the capacity of political parties from having excessive funding drives.

Finally, with respect to the public reporting process for any donation, anything that is basically over $200 has to be reported publicly and be accessible to all Canadians. It is important to note that this reporting includes the name of the particular individual and the fact that they have a reportable address, so that Canadians can know who is supporting a particular political party.

Again, I find the motion before the House not helpful. There are very clear rules with respect to the conduct of all political parties and ministers, and they were followed. In fact, it was important that we sat down and spoke with the Ethics Commissioner so that there would be very clear guidelines and rules with respect to the appropriate activity. As a result, it is my submission that there are no violations and no existing problems requiring a fix that my friends on the other side are suggesting.

I would also remind those members that they too fundraised in an incredibly aggressive fashion. Over the nearly 10 years that the Conservatives served in government, I have a very long laundry list of instances where ministers of the previous government engaged in fundraisers of similar quantum, subject to the caps, and that they took the position that they were following the rules applied at the time.

Again, these rules were established primarily by the other side and are the current ones that exist today. We are following those rules. Those rules are being abided by.

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

Mr. Speaker, the member prepared very carefully for his speech, but the problem is that almost nothing in his speech was relevant to this motion.

This motion is not about the Elections Act. It is not about public consultations in his riding. It is not about town halls. It is not about spending limits. It is not about comparisons between the American and Canadian electoral systems. It is not about the Senate. This motion is about the Prime Minister's statement on open and accountable government, and cash for access fundraising, and the enforcement of that statement.

If everything is just fine and if there is nothing wrong with the style of fundraising the current government is engaged in, why did the Ethics Commissioner last Thursday call it “unsavoury” and why does the Lobbying Commissioner have open investigations into lobbyists over their cash for access fundraising?

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Arnold Chan Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Mr. Speaker, I do not accept the premise of my friend's question. There are processes to look into particular fundraising situations, but the rules clearly circumscribe the participation of ministers in various activities. At the end of the day, transparency is ultimately in the reporting process that takes place when those donations are subsequently made public. Again, I do not accept the premise of the question by my friend.

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Sheri Benson NDP Saskatoon West, SK

Mr. Speaker, I have a lot of respect for the member and have agreed on many occasions with his statements and speeches in the House. The hon. member has good insight into many important things that we are doing in the House. I do not want to repeat what the previous member asked, but I feel I have to, because we are repeatedly getting the response he made back from the government.

We are not talking about how many times Liberals have consulted with people. We know they know the rules, the Elections Act, but that is not what we are talking about today. We are talking about ministers of the crown who have a higher level of accountability to the public for their actions.

We all heard the big fanfare when the Prime Minister said that things were going to be different and read his big letter that ministers were going to be held to a higher account. Why write that letter, why ask people to do something, if he had no intention whatsoever of asking them to fulfill that accountability?

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Arnold Chan Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Mr. Speaker, again, the key in dealing with the whole issue of fundraising is that there are clear guidelines that are established. Ministers go through that process with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner to make sure that their activities comply strictly with the rules. We know that each individual who was vetted by the Privy Council went through that process and had a very clear understanding of those rules.

The member is asking about the individual mandate letters by the Prime Minister to his ministers. My point is that there are clear guidelines governing the activity of ministers. The suggestion that somehow there is preferential access to these individuals simply because they are attending a particular fundraiser is false. These ministers consult broadly.

The other point I would make is this. Does the attendance of those individuals fundamentally change public policy or a particular decision-making process? I would argue that it is not the case.

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to governmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Mr. Speaker, I suggest that once the connection is made that special access has influenced a government decision, that is where the RCMP will be involved. We have seen the Liberals do that before, whether in the sponsorship scandal or other ones. We are trying to advise the government not to go down the same road it has gone before. Instead of heeding our good advice and their own advice, the Liberals are doubling down on the wrong policy with regard to ministerial ethics.

My hon. colleague started to talk a little about the Prime Minister's mandate letters. I have in my hand the annex B to the Prime Minister's guidelines, “Open and Accountable Government”. It states, “There should be no preferential access to government, or appearance of preferential access”.

Does my hon. colleague, in all honesty and in his genuine opinion, believe that having a minister of finance meet someone who is a stakeholder of his department for a cost of $1,500 not have the appearance of preferential contact? If it does not, then what would?