Debates of Nov. 3rd, 2016

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to government

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe.

I welcome this opportunity to rise in the House to discuss this motion.

The motion, at its heart, speaks to issues of integrity and accountability. I think we can all agree that engagement with Canadians is a key part of the democratic process. The unfortunate reality is that under the previous government, Canadians were not engaged, their concerns were not heard, and that is why Canadians chose a new government to represent them.

In short, as much as my opposition colleagues would like us all to believe, fundraising is not a dirty word. Fundraising is one component of every party's engagement in outreach work. I am proud to say that Canadians have a government that is not only following the rules, but believes in hearing the concerns of all Canadians from all walks of life and making their concerns a major priority.

All parties fundraise. It is a way citizens can express their views in a free and fair democracy. That said, we need to ensure we preserve the level playing field that is the foundation of our democratic culture.

Fundraising and election spending need to be regulated, and they are. The federal fundraising rules are some of the strictest in the country, and donations and contributions are made open and transparent. For instance, in some provinces, individuals can donate in the tens of thousands of dollars, and others do not have any limits on contributions whatsoever. Additionally, it is important to note that some provinces accept donations from unions, trade associations, and corporations. This is not the case in the federal system

While members on that side of the House are trying to create a narrative that our government is not being open and transparent, I can say with full confidence that this is not the case here. Canadians know that, federally, we have some of the strictest rules governing political fundraising, and our members follow these rules in every case. Canadians have trust in our system, because they know we have measures in place to ensure our public institutions operate in a transparent fashion and that decision makers are held to account for their actions.

One of the central pillars of our integrity regime is the Conflict of Interest Act. It is important that members of the House understand how the extremely rigorous regime set out by the statute works.

First, the act has broad coverage. When it talks about public office-holders, the net is cast widely to include ministers, parliamentary secretaries, Governor in Council appointees, and even exempt staff. Compliance with the Conflict of Interest Act is not something that is taken lightly. It is not a suggestion. It is a term and condition of appointment for all public office-holders.

At its core, the act requires public office-holders to avoid conflict between private interests and their official duties. This means that ministers, staffers, and others may not take part in any decision making that could further their own private interests or that of their friends or relatives.

We all know that this is not a universal principle embraced around the world. There are countries where people seek high office as a means to obtain wealth and prosperity. Fortunately, in Canada, we view things differently. Public service is exactly that: serving the public and not oneself.

The rules are some of the strictest in the country regarding donations, and contributions must be made openly and transparently. Some provinces allow individuals to make donations of tens of thousands of dollars, while others have no limits on donations, and some of them also allow donations from unions, business associations and corporations. None of that is permitted under the federal regime, which requires donations of more than $200 to be reported online. That being said, there is no question that the current government is obeying the rules and the laws on political fundraising campaigns in Canada.

I will now turn to a few concrete examples of activities and practices that are not permitted under our current regime. Federal public office holders are not permitted to participate in making decisions that will affect the value of their children’s business or would increase the value of their own stock portfolios. They may not issue a permit that would increase the value of their property holdings. They are not permitted to accept extravagant gifts, either.

The definition of these gifts includes a wide variety of items. It can include a gift bag from a business, a low-interest mortgage or anything in between. The law also contains provisions concerning the post-employment period. For example, federal public office holders cannot resign and immediately use the confidential information to which they had access for their own purposes. They cannot suddenly resign and join the other side in a transaction or negotiation with the government.

Overseeing this regime is the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner. She interprets and administers the act. This includes providing public office-holders with confidential advice, investigating and reporting on alleged breaches, and levying penalties for public office-holders who have failed to report as required. It is tough.

I know that everyone in the House can agree that the current commissioner is doing an admirable job and has earned our collective respect and appreciation. When I say it is a tough job, I mean it. Things are rarely entirely black and white. Context matters and perception matters. That is why there are mechanisms to ensure public reporting and mechanisms to allow ministers, staffers, and others covered by the act to check in with the commissioner when questions arise.

Canadians expect governments and ministers to act to the highest ethical standards. That is exactly what every minister of this government has done, and continues to do. The commissioner is the authoritative source for interpreting the act. She has issued a number of guidelines and information notices to assist public office-holders, which are available on her website. In short, when in doubt, she is the font of wisdom.

Another pillar of the federal ethics regime is the Lobbying Act. This act is based on the principle that it is legitimate and necessary for the government to communicate with interest groups. Canadians have the right to know who is involved in paid lobbying for the purpose of influencing the government’s decisions.

Under the act, all paid lobbyists are required to register with the Lobbying Commissioner before they can communicate with ministers, exempt staff, government officers and parliamentarians. That includes consultants working for law firms and lobbying companies, as well as employees of corporations, unions, industrial associations and interest groups.

Lobbyists are required to enter information about their clients, their lobbying activities and the departments and officers with whom they meet in a public data bank. They also have to make public the details of any meetings or telephone calls with government decision-makers, which includes ministers, exempt staff and even senior public servants. Any member of the public may consult the data bank online to obtain that information.

In addition, all lobbyists must respect the lobbyists' code of conduct issued by the Commissioner of Lobbying. Like the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, the Commissioner of Lobbying is an independent officer who reports directly to Parliament, not the government. Under their code of conduct, lobbyists must act honestly and with integrity, and they must not do anything that places a designated public office holder in a conflict of interest.

The Ethics Commissioner has the power to investigate any alleged breaches of both the Lobbying Act and the lobbyists’ code of conduct. The commissioner must also report all violations to Parliament. If the commissioner believes that a violation has occurred, he can also refer the matter to the RCMP for criminal investigation and, where appropriate, prosecution.

The Lobbying Act ensures that senior government officials cannot leave their position and immediately begin lobbying their former government colleagues. It is prohibited for ministers, exempt staff, and senior officials to be a paid lobbyist of the federal government for a period of five years after they leave their position.

Taken together, the Conflict of Interest Act and the Lobbying Act represent one of the most rigorous statutory transparency and ethics regimes in the world. I am proud that our government has set the bar so high. Providing open and accountable government for Canadians is all about that.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I have been sitting listening to the debate today and have been hearing members on the other side trying to defend against this. They have been saying that they are following all the steps of the law.

I would like to quote from the Prime Minister's letter to the ministers. It states:

To be worthy of Canadians’ trust, we must always act with integrity. This is not merely a matter of adopting the right rules, or of ensuring technical compliance with those rules. As Ministers, you and your staff must uphold the highest standards of honesty and impartiality, and both the performance of your official duties and the arrangement of your private affairs should bear the closest public scrutiny.

This is the part that really matters, “This is an obligation that is not fully discharged by simply acting within the law”.

Further on in that “Open and Accountable Government” document, another statement states, “Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries must avoid conflict of interest, the appearance of conflict of interest and situations that have the potential to involve conflicts of interest.”

How can these pay-for-play events not be perceived as potential conflicts of interest?

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the way it works is that people donate to parties. The government follows the rules, not just to the letter but in spirit. Every member of the House has to follow the rules. There are so many mechanisms that ensure this. We need only ask Mr. Del Mastro and we will find out how the system actually works.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, what I find troubling is the Liberal members keep speaking about the letter of the law and appear to not even want to mention the mandate letter the Prime Minister sent to all his ministers.

They have said that they are obeying the letter of the law. If we turn to Duff Conacher, who has brought a number of cases before the courts on the interpretation of lobbyists law, he is not of the same view. I would like to take the opinion of independent lawyers. He says that the law says it is illegal to do anything that puts a politician or a government official in even the appearance of a conflict of interest, which raises the question of how well our commissioner is upholding these rules.

The PM mandate letter is very clear that the ministers must uphold the highest standards of honesty and impartiality beyond what is specified in law to avoid a conflict of interest, or a potential conflict of interest, or even the appearance of an influence affecting a minister's decisions.

I would ask the member to speak to the Prime Minister's mandate letter and whether he thinks the ministers should be ignoring the mandate letters that were given to them, or if he thinks it is sage advice that should be followed.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's mandate letter is a very good letter. I think our ministers are following it to the letter, to the spirit, to the intent, and are doing a very good job of it.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting to hear from the opposition benches, asking us why we keep referring to the law. My colleague made reference to the Conservatives breaking the law. The last time an election law was broken, there were two political parties. The NDP was also required to return money.

I wonder if my colleague would like to comment on why it is important to follow the laws, which is something our government actually does.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we are a country of laws, first and foremost. It is either a country of men or a country of laws. This is a country of laws. We follow the rules. We make the rules as fair as humanly possible. We do our very best to stick with that.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I arrived here today to speak to the opposition motion on fundraising and federal cabinet ministers. Canadian politics is governed by some of the strictest political financial regulations found anywhere in our country and across North America, and the Liberal Party of Canada fully complies with all of the rules and regulations.

Last year, we saw one of the longest federal elections in Canadian history. It was one that was entirely funded by donations from individual Canadians. Why? Because Canadian political parties are not-for-profit organizations that rely solely on donations and fundraising events in order to keep the lights on, their volunteers fed, and Canadians engaged in the process. That is what we are doing. We are engaging Canadians, strengthening our democracy, and we are doing it in an open, collaborative, and transparent way.

The Prime Minister has been very clear from day one. Real change is needed in how we do things. This means that the government must operate in an open and transparent manner, and that all government institutions must work openly. Basically, we need to make all government affairs transparent by default.

That is one of the central points of the 2016 fall economic statement presented by the Minister of Finance this past Tuesday. Whether it is about strengthening the integrity of our statistics system, making the decisions of the Board of Internal Economy more transparent, or making the government simpler and easier to follow and understand, the government is taking real action for Canadians.

This summer I had the opportunity and privilege of being in my riding for most of the summer. I had a series of town halls, and several ministers visited the riding. The Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship came and did a town hall. The Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard also did some sessions. The Minister of National Revenue came to visit students at the university and met with several stakeholders. The Minister of Innovation, Science and Economic Development came to my riding to speak with several stakeholders, staff, and members of the public. Also, the Minister of Finance was in my riding this summer for a free barbeque, where he had the opportunity to meet over 400 Canadians from my riding. It was a fantastic event.

We also had the Minister of Public Services and Procurement, the Minister of Transport, the Minister of Canadian Heritage, and the Minister of Democratic Institutions in the area. We had a wonderful summer. It was very busy and engaging, doing town halls and hearing from the people of our community. I am very proud of the work that has been done.

I think we are certainly on the right track. More importantly, Canadians agree. Recent polls show that Canadians have a very high level of trust in the government. That is critically important because we are the stewards of democracy.

Canadians need to know that their elected members are working for them. They need to know that we, the members of the House of Commons are here in Ottawa to give them a voice.

Provincially, we know that in the British Columbia area there are no established limits on the amount of anonymous contributions a candidate, riding association, or political party can accept. On the other hand, federally, political parties are required to publicly report on a quarterly and annual basis all contributions that are over $200.

Again, provincially, we know that in Alberta individuals can donate up to $30,000 to a political party during a campaign. I find that astonishing. Federally, individuals can donate a maximum of $1,525. With the Americans going to the polls in just a few days, what better time to remind Canadians that in Canada, our political financing rules ban all political donations made on behalf of corporations, unions, and special interest groups.

Yes, the Liberal Party relies on individual donations from Canadians across this wonderful country, 93,000 donations last year alone, in fact, but the Liberal Party of Canada has taken engaging Canadians one step further. We have blown open the doors to our movement by removing membership fees and allowing all Canadians to register free of charge and participate in the political process, including nominating candidates and selecting party leaders. During my nomination in 2015, an individual came to my headquarters who wanted to become a member of the party, but just did not have the financial means to do so. He felt awful. Now, with the new rules in place, all marginalized groups and all Canadians can be engaged in the process.

Ministers are MPs as well and all MPs need to fund raise. Fundraising is done by every member in the House, including the New Democrats and Conservatives. I find it a little odd that the legislation brought in by the previous Conservative government, practised by the previous Conservative government, which is nearly identical to the “Open and Accountable Government” guide introduced by the Prime Minister, is suddenly no good now that Canadians voted for perhaps a better government.

Let us take a stroll down memory lane, if we could, and refresh the memories of opposition members. Fundraising is not always easy, as the member for Parry Sound—Muskoka recently found out. Although, when he was still a minister, he managed to attract donors to attend The Albany Club in Toronto at a price of $250 a head.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

My department, though—

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

In May of last year, the former minister, Chris Alexander, was the main attraction at a $3,000-a-head reception—

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Don't start talking about my fundraising when you're—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I would like to inform the hon. member for Parry Sound—Muskoka that this is not a debate going back and forth. If he would like to ask questions, he can do that later.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will wait for my opportunity.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The hon. member for Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Speaker, in May of last year, former member and minister, Chris Alexander, was the main attraction at a $3,000-a-head reception and dinner at the $27-million home of two wealthy Conservative supporters. The donor list for those attending this event was never made public.

To conclude my section on Conservative fundraising, I would like to point out the cocktail party held this past October at the exclusive York Club in Toronto, where numerous senators and Tory backroom operators hosted a meeting with leadership candidates, where the ticket price was $1,500 a head.

The third party in the House also engages in fundraising for electoral purposes. In fact, the member for Victoria had the fourth-highest spending campaign in all of the 2015 candidates in Canada, the second highest of anyone elected. It almost reached $215,000. He did this by accepting the maximum donation of $1,500 from 23 individuals in 2015 alone. He also accepted $1,300 in donations from one individual, $1,000 from 16 individuals, and a further 49 individuals donated between $500 and $999.

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with all of this, as long as it is done within the rules. The rules are working, as they have in the past. However, our Prime Minister has put another level of oversight over cabinet ministers. The opposition would have people believe that these additional rules are somehow a bad thing. I cannot follow the logic of this argument.

The Ethics Commissioner's office is responsible for administering the Conflict of Interest Act for public office holders, and the Conflict of Interest Code for Members of the House of Commons. Compliance with fundraising activities falls under the purview of Elections Canada and will continue to do so.

I could go on and on for hours about how the Conservatives raised money over their time in power, but let me be clear, in almost all cases they did follow the rules. In our case we have followed the rules in every case and will continue to do so. If the Leader of the Opposition is so upset about the fundraising practices of the government, will she stand up and demand an apology from her caucus mates who were ministers in the last government?

It is telling, I believe, that the Conservatives have used one of their few opposition days to throw stones through their own windows. Our government and our leader have been entrusted by the Canadian public to lead this country with vision and principle, which is exactly what we promised and is exactly what we are doing. Cabinet ministers like all other members of this place must raise funds if they intend to get re-elected. They will continue to do so in complete compliance with all facets of the election financing laws, as we expect from all members of the House.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to correct the record and draw the distinction between what our ministers did when we were in government, and what the Liberals do.

When we were in government, as the hon. member for Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe must know, we were specifically prevented by our rules from fundraising from individuals who were registered to our departments. If I were the minister of health, as I was, we did not, and I did not, fundraise with pharmaceuticals interests, including Barry Sherman, by the way. When I was president of the Treasury Board, anyone who had any dealings with the Treasury Board did not go to my fundraisers.

In the Liberals' case, every person on their list who was registered as a lobbyist is not only invited but actually organizes the fundraisers. Does the hon. member have anything to say about that?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Speaker, once again, as we have heard time and time again today, no laws have been broken.

All members of Parliament are following the laws that have been put in place. We are following all of the information that has been given to us by the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Before I go to the next question and comment, I just want to point out to members that I am up here and I am kind of far away, and members are making it very difficult for me to hear the answers. I am certain members do not want to upset the Speaker.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would love it if the hon. member for Victoria were a minister right now.

What the hon. member for Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe and all the Liberals seem to fail to understand is that the Prime Minister wrote mandate letters to all the members of cabinet in which he made it perfectly clear that it was not enough to act within the law.

How many times are we going to be given every example of every politician and every political party that ever participated in fundraising activities? It is one thing to hold a fundraiser, but could my colleague read the motion and perhaps even the mandate letters, which explicitly prohibit the type of behaviour displayed by the Minister of Finance during a closed-door fundraiser?

The Prime Minister asked his ministers to adhere to higher ethical standards, but he did not keep his word. The worst part is hearing this party brush this off as no big deal because everyone does it. As my leader said earlier, as for real change, that is malarky.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

First of all, Elections Canada is responsible for enforcing the law when it comes to elections. We followed all the laws that have been established. We also complied with all the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's recommendations and advice.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Speaker, one of my key volunteers and funders in my riding helped with my campaign. He had supported other parties in the past but chose to support the Liberal Party in the last campaign. When I asked him why, he told me that his father came to Canada, was successful in business, and told his children democracy comes at a cost, that there is a price to running the operations of a political party and every party faces costs to operate within their jurisdictions.

Could the hon. member comment on the fact that we operate as not-for-profits, but we do need to generate funds in order to reach our members democratically?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague is absolutely right. As a part of doing business we need to raise funds. In the 2015 election the Liberal Party received donations from over 93,000 Canadians and the amounts varied from $5 to $1,500. The amounts did not really matter as we were pleased to receive all contributions. For the work that we do, we need to receive financing and we support and appreciate all members who have provided money.

Through this government we have been able to engage with thousands of Canadians from coast to coast to coast on different issues that really matter to them. We have been very successful and Canadians continue to tell us that they are proud of the work that we continue to do.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte.

What we have just heard is basically an excuse for unethical behaviour. The excuse that we have heard all morning from the speeches that members are reading from the PMO is that no laws have been broken. That is the standard the Liberals are setting. Of course, what they are not talking about is the ethical guidelines that the Prime Minister handed out to the public office holders over there, the best practices for ministers and parliamentary secretaries. I want to read from those guidelines, under general principles:

Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries must ensure that political fundraising activities or considerations do not affect, or appear to affect, the exercise of their official duties or the access of individuals or organizations to government.

There should be no preferential access to government, or appearance of preferential access, accorded to individuals or organizations because they have made financial contributions to politicians and political parties. There should be no singling out, or appearance of singling out, of individuals or organizations as targets of political fundraising because they have official dealings with Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries, or their staff or departments.

What the Liberal Party wants us to believe is that when the Minister of Justice holds a fundraiser attended by a bunch of lawyers who pay $1,500 for the privilege, it is just a coincidence that they are lawyers who are regulated by the Justice Department.

When the Minister of Natural Resources holds a $1,500 per person fundraiser at a law firm that specializes in natural resource sectors, that is just a coincidence. How are they supposed to know that it was going to be the minister who regulates their department and may decide whether their projects proceed or not? How could they know? What a happy coincidence.

When the Minister of Finance holds dozens of these things across the country, at $1,500 per person and filled with Bay Street bankers, how are the latter supposed to know that the minister who is responsible for regulating the financial services sector would be there and take that $1,500?

It is beyond belief that the Liberal Party is justifying this clear cash for access scheme and trying to drag in other members of Parliament who all fundraise. The difference is that when we were in government, our ministers were very clear. We set up the ethical standard so that our ministers were not taking cash from people they regulated, from the people who lobbied their departments. That is the clear differentiation between the Conservative government and the Liberal Party. They do not even try to hide it; they justify it as not being illegal.

It is the same behaviour we have seen from Kathleen Wynne and the Ontario Liberal Party, in which people who are under a cloud of investigation are kept in their posts because they have not been officially charged yet. They have not officially gone to jail yet.

That is the standard the government is emulating. It is not a surprise, because this is the same party that has another member, Jacques Corriveau, who was found guilty on three counts of fraud just this week in the sponsorship scandal. Canadians remember it well, that system of coordinated kick-backs for government contracts. There are still people going to jail because of that Liberal culture of corruption.

We see it continuing. It is the proud legacy that the Liberals have brought forward into this new iteration, which is basically more of the same. This is how they do business. As David Dingwall famously said, “I'm entitled to my entitlements.” The Liberal Party of Canada seems to think it is entitled to raise money from the very people who should not be at fundraisers with the people who regulate them, with the ministers who often hold the very future of whether a project proceeds, and whether a regulation changes to the benefit of an industry. That is what we are talking about. It is the cash for that access. We are not talking about eliminating fundraising.

I heard another member say in another speech written by the PMO and read into the record here today that in B.C. one could give $30,000 and in other jurisdictions $20,000, as if the amount of the donation were the ethical breach. However, the breach occurs when any amount is given to get access to a minister who has control over files that are important to the minister and the minister's personal interests. That is what this party is doing, and its members are not even hiding it. It is coordinated corruption.

The Liberals have had nearly 90 of these events that we know about, and 20 with high-profile ministers who have been implicated. Now we have the Minister of Natural Resources saying that he was not there, but, of course, the record shows that he was. I would be embarrassed if I were him too. I would be telling people that I do not do anything like that. However, the record shows that he was there at the event with a law firm that lobbies in regard to natural resources.

We have other events taking place with the Minister of International Trade, such as the following event, described as the Liberal Party of Canada and an evening with the hon. Minister of International Trade in Toronto. However, when we go to the web page now, we cannot find out about that event because it is password protected. The Liberals are trying to cover their tracks, but Canadians will not let them get away with it.

The Prime Minister's bureaucrats are deciding whether the Prime Minister is breaking ethical guidelines. That is the system he has conveniently set up so that the Privy Council oversees it. The Privy Council, which is the bureaucracy for the Prime Minister's Office, is the one that oversees whether the Prime Minister is keeping his own ethical guidelines, and, surprise, he is batting 1000%. He is always on the level, and they do not seem to find a problem with it, even though the Lobbying Commissioner and Ethics Commissioner have said it is very unsavoury and believe it is something that should come under their purview. We agree. Therefore, this is what the motion says today:

That, in the opinion of the House, the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner should be granted the authority to oversee and enforce the directives to Ministers listed in Open and Accountable Government in order to end the current practice of “cash-for-access” by ensuring there is no preferential access to government, or appearance of preferential access, accorded to individuals or organizations because they have made financial contributions to politicians or political parties.

That is taken directly from the Prime Minister's directives to his minsters. However, we hear today a defence. It is hard to believe that every one of the Liberal Party members gets up to say that they have not broken the law. The laws have not been broken, but it is about ethics, which is why this decision by ministers to purposely seek out funds from the people they regulate is corruption.

As I said before, the Liberals have held 89 of these fundraisers so far, and have another 10 scheduled for the fall. They all include fundraisers with ministers and parliamentary secretaries, as well as one with the Prime Minister's senior adviser, Gerald Butts.

They are defending the indefensible. They are bringing up the Elections Act, or the fact that members have fundraised. We all fundraise. It is part of the political process in Canada. What is not a part of the political process is using the office that one has been entrusted with by the Prime Minister to act on behalf of all Canadians, to instead act on behalf of people who can afford a $1,500 donation to bend the ear of the Prime Minister or his ministers.

In the natural resource sector, 100,000 workers have lost their jobs since the current government took office. They cannot afford the entry fee to get face time with the Minister of Natural Resources to ask why he is not doing anything to get them back to work. This is a return to the culture of corruption.

The Liberals should support this motion, support the words of their Prime Minister, and get the Ethics Commission, not their bureaucrats, to evaluate whether or not these clear conflicts of interest violate ethical rules.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated earlier, at the national level we have some of the strongest election financing rules in the country. That has been very evident.

In fact, it is somewhat ironic. I confess, we have been emphasizing the importance of laws here on the government benches, and for good reason. For five years I sat on the opposition benches, and the only parties that broke the law were the Conservatives and the NDP. Both of those parties had to pay because they broke the law.

This government has not broken the law. If one does not break the law, then there is no conflict of interest.

Can the member not agree that those very same laws were in place under Stephen Harper, and maybe explain to the House why the Conservatives broke those laws?

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know who that hon. member offended to be tasked with having to defend the indefensible here today. It is a tough task and he has been handed the short straw. Again, he does not want to talk about these clear conflicts of interest. We are talking about ministers who are raising cash from people who are registered to lobby their departments. They are raising cash from the people they regulate: the justice minister from lawyers, the finance minister from bankers, the natural resource minister from those who have natural resource interests. That is what is corrupt and unethical in this. It is too bad that it has not taken that long for the member to swallow himself whole by moving from the third party into the third row. We hope that he will see the light of the Prime Minister's own words, embrace them, and vote for this motion.