Debates of May 16th, 2016

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2016-17

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The rules are that the person delivering the speech will be asking five minutes of questions to the minister. The parliamentary secretary can ask five minutes of questions to the minister.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Madam Chair, I apologize. I have been around here way too long, and generally speaking the speaker asks the questions rather than the person.

I want to particularly pursue the $3.7 billion, which is in the words of the members opposite “a cut”, when in fact it is a reprofiling. The parliamentary budget officer had been asking for years for that chart that is in the budget, which shows the reprofiling. It is a request on the government's part to have these monies pushed into further years, so that the various procurements we need to secure can be secured.

I would be interested in the minister's comments around that.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Madam Chair, when it comes to the complexity of defence budgets, I am very fortunate to have three colleagues who do most of the heavy lifting.

Again, I want to reassure the committee that the $3.7 billion is being reprofiled to match the funding with the procurement schedule. That is a schedule that I inherited, and that is the one I will be working with.

As I move diligently toward reducing some of the capability gaps, we will have the ability to request to have this money reprofiled if we need it, and we will. That is one of the things I will be working diligently on to make sure that we can speed up certain projects.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Madam Chair, the minister has done a number of things to accelerate, rationalize, and co-ordinate the fiscal cycle and the procurement cycle.

In the budget, the minister is proposing the hiring of 200 more procurement specialists. He is part of a ministerial cabinet working group. These are small fixes in some respects, but in the larger scheme of things may turn out to be very significant fixes, so that the fiascos we saw in the previous government are not repeated.

I would be interested in the minister's observations.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Madam Chair, on the challenges that we face, the Department of National Defence is working diligently.

The officials have done incredible work already to move the process along. We are working to get some of the decision processes cut down by 50%. At a ministerial level, I am working with the Minister of Public Services and Procurement, so that instead of working separately, we are conducting joint briefings. Our officials are also conducting joint work as well, in a manner so that we can reduce the process, but at the same time maintain accountability to Canadians to spend the money in a prudent manner, making sure that we deliver the capabilities to our men and women in a timely fashion.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Madam Chair, the parliamentary secretary almost put me to sleep with his fine words. Just kidding.

As a veteran, I am getting to know the minister, and I also recognize his human qualities and experience. He is a man who wants to do things well. He is a good man.

In another time, I would have gone to war with him. He will understand what I mean.

However, now we are politicians. The minister and I are in politics, as is everyone here today, and because of that we are asking questions today. There were negative signs in the throne speech and the mandate letters of the Minister of Defence and the Minister of Foreign Affairs, which led to the defence decision.

With respect to the budget, the parliamentary secretary said that we Conservatives did not understand the figures, that we are rather stupid, but we sometimes know how to count because we nonetheless managed to balance the budget and generate a surplus.

There are $300 million in cuts this year. The throne speech mentions that we will have a more agile and leaner army. It mentions United Nations missions. To us, this is clearly a political signal that harkens back to the 1990s. That is why we are asking questions. We want to understand the position. It has nothing to do with the minister's experience and military skills. On the contrary, this is about the Liberal government.

That said, I want to go back to the refugee operation. In December, I was here in committee of the whole examining the issue of refugees. I asked the Minister of Immigration the question and he told me to ask the defence department. Today, I have the opportunity to ask the Minister of Defence. I would like to know the total cost of Operation Provision.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Madam Chair, we are talking about the total cost for the operation provision. It was $13.3 million from our party. As I stated, there was work that needed to be done. I am happy to actually give a further breakdown.

I want to also acknowledge that member's service as well. As politicians, we all want the best for our members, regardless of the party. It is the opposition's job to ask questions, and I welcome that.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Madam Chair, the report of the Auditor General that was published two weeks ago contained a section on the Canadian army reserve. That report shows that, when the budget is submitted at the beginning of the year, not all of the money that is specifically allocated to the reserve forces is going to them. I would like to know where that money is going.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Madam Chair, the total budget when it comes to the reserves is $744.9 million.

When it comes to reservists, if I can just explain, it is not just about having the money; it is also about the ability to spend it.

There is some work that we are doing as part of the defence review. It is not that we just give the money, we need to make sure that the money is able to be spent as well.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Madam Chair, the minister and I both know that the reserve units are currently experiencing a lot of budget problems. Will the minister take action to ensure that the money that is allocated to reserve forces and specific units gets to them and that cuts are made elsewhere instead, if necessary?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

No, Madam Chair, the reserves will get all of the funding that is needed. However, as I stated, to elevate the conversation, it is more than just making sure that they have the right money. It is allocated because there is also class A pay that they get, and then there is O and M as well.

It is making sure they have enough money to pay their soldiers, but at the same time that they have enough money to be able to conduct the training as well.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Madam Chair, with regard to the use of class A and class B budgets, when the government whip was a lieutenant general, he wrote “The Report on Transformation 2011”. At that time, he recommended that class B reserve budgets be cut by 50%.

Does the minister agree with the recommendation that the whip made at that time?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Madam Chair, on cutting the class B, we were on a very high tempo in Afghanistan in previous years, so a lot of the regular force positions members were being deployed and had to be backfilled by reservists. Now that some of those operations have obviously ceased, those positions have been refilled by the regular force, hence the reason why certain class B positions were not needed. However, at the same time, we need to ensure there is a right balance across the board with the various reserve brigades.

I am happy to discuss this further because there is even a lot more work that can be done in our class A, B, C system to make it more efficient.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Madam Chair, with regard to the recruitment of reservists, in 1994, a former Liberal government created what is known as the total force. The goal at the time was to merge the regular forces and the reserve forces into one operations group.

Over the years, we finally realized that the reserve forces had problems, particularly with regard to recruitment.

Will the minister do something to drastically change the way in which reservists are recruited?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Madam Chair, the recruitment system has been a challenge for many of my predecessors. It is one that we are working on diligently. However, in the reserves, it is even more complex. This is not about having a full-time career; it is about part-time. It is about creating an environment. Also in the reserves, we should not just be focused on recruiting; we need to focus on retention. It is a different mindset in the reserves. We are looking at ways on how we can better attract, or more important, give better mechanism resources so commanding officers in reserve units can retain their soldiers as well.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Madam Chair, I knew that the minister would understand the problems of reserve forces like I do. I am pleased to see that we can agree on this matter.

In the last year that the Conservative government was in power, we gave the directive to increase the number of reservists to 28,500 over the next four years.

Can the minister tell us what kind of progress has been made in that regard?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Madam Chair, during my travels, I have talked to different division commanders, getting their perspective of what is happening in the reserves. There have been some challenges in recruiting. This is also not just because there has not been effort, there are also demographic challenges as well. In certain areas we are having challenges. If they cannot recruit, maybe allow certain other regions to recruit higher. We are going to be looking at different ways of increasing, and the defence review will be a part of that.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like to hear the minister's thoughts on maintaining Canada's special operations forces.

In light of the changes to Canada's missions, which are being aligned with those of the UN, does the minister think that our special operations forces are still necessary?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Madam Chair, absolutely. The functions of our special forces and with the work they do, they are needed. We have our JTF2, our special operations regiment and the many other aspects of what they do. I have the privilege of finally knowing exactly what they do now. It is a critical capability and I am working aggressively to ensure they have all the capability to do their dangerous work.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Madam Chair, in the beginning, we spoke a bit about Canada's military bases.

Could the minister confirm today that he does not intend to close or shrink the Bagotville base in Quebec?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Madam Chair, I have not looked at that, but right now I have no intention of closing anything down. We are conducting the defence review. We have a considerable amount of buildings that may not be utilized. In terms of our main bases, Bagotville is where a lot of our CF-18s are based. I look forward to visiting the area. In fact, we are going to be looking at ensuring we have all the capabilities in the right areas, and Bagotville plays a critical role.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Madam Chair, with respect to the bases, can the minister confirm that no reserve units or armouries will be shut down?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Madam Chair, I do take a lot of requests from different members of Parliament with respect to our reserve units. When it comes to reserve units, one thing we have to be mindful of is ensuring the reserve units themselves remain strong. We will be looking at this. Reserves play a critical role. I have no intentions at this time. However, we will be conducting a review to ensure we remain efficient. As a former commanding officer of the reserves, I know the value reserves play for Canada and the regular forces.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Madam Chair, earlier, we spoke about threats to Canada. During our visit to NORAD, my NDP colleague had a different perspective than I and my Liberal colleagues did.

I would like the minister to tell us how Canada can protect itself against a direct or indirect missile attack, since we are in the path between North Korea, Russia, and the United States.

How will Canada protect itself against a potential cruise or antiballistic missile?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Madam Chair, that is a question I would rather have in private because of the classified nature of the answer. I think the member would understand that.