Debates of Oct. 19th, 2017

Ethics

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I am going to continue to work for Canadian families and for Canada's middle class, because I know that is vital.

We have done many very important things for our country, such as lowering taxes for the middle class, introducing the Canada child benefit, and strengthening the pension plan for all Canadians. We are going to continue to implement measures and policies that help Canadian families. That is something that means a lot to me. I would like to keep doing this important work, instead of dwelling on matters that are hardly worth mentioning.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, in 2013, the executive chair of Morneau Shepell said, “We need legislation enabling Target Benefit Plans...in all Canadian jurisdictions”, so he made it happen. He became the Minister of Finance and he tabled the legislation himself. To make this conflict much worse, Morneau Shepell continued to pay that minister tens of thousands of dollars a month.

The question the minister has not answered is this. Why did he not recuse himself around discussions about Bill C-27?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the process for working with the Ethics Commissioner, which all 338 members in this House are familiar with, is actually to present one's assets, to work with the Ethics Commissioner to understand her advice, to take that advice, and to respect the officers of Parliament. What I did was I took the advice, I respected the officer of Parliament, and I moved forward with the conflict of interest screen, which I know has been put in place for the last year to year and a half. That is the way that we do it in this country.

I have decided to take it one step further, because I think that is worth doing in my position as the Minister of Finance, so I am looking forward to continuing to do that.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, Morneau Shepell thought that the Minister of Finance had placed his shares in a blind trust. We all thought he had placed his shares in a blind trust. He had not done that and in fact he was enacting legislation that would directly benefit him and Morneau Shepell.

I have a different question. Maybe the minister will answer this. At any time, did the minister discuss Bill C-27 with Morneau Shepell while he was the finance minister? At any time, did they discuss this bill?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, no.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Mr. Speaker, time and time again the minister has claimed that he has been in full compliance with the ethics law. Now we find out, by his own admission today, that he has not been.

Here is another one. Last week we learned that the minister has been hiding his ownership of an offshore corporation for over two years, something he is obliged by law to disclose.

How can any Canadian believe anything the minister says when he keeps saying that he has been following the law and we now know that is not true?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I know the members opposite are familiar with the approach to declaring assets to the Ethics Commissioner, to getting the advice of the Ethics Commissioner, and to moving forward. That is exactly the approach that I have taken, so my—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

And we follow it.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order. I know the hon. member for Calgary Midnapore is new here, but I think she and others know the rules by now, that one is not to interrupt. Therefore, I would encourage members to wait and save their comments until they have the floor.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my situation has been fully disclosed. What I have said this morning is that I am actually going to go a step further. That step further is, in my estimation, something that is necessary because of the distraction that this places at our feet at this moment. Putting in place a blind trust and making sure that I or my family no longer have shares in Morneau Shepell I think will help with the confidence, allowing us to do our job.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the minister keeps saying that we have a process. Yes, we do. It is called honesty and integrity. For two years the minister was breaking the law by specifically hiding the ownership of his offshore corporation from the Ethics Commissioner. That is not called compliance, that is not called working with the Ethics Commissioner, it is called hiding from the Ethics Commissioner. When will the minister finally admit that he broke the law?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, to address the question directly, I disclosed all of my assets to the Ethics Commissioner at the time of discussing that with her. We did in fact find out later that there was one administrative error, which was not substantive, so we corrected that problem.

What I will do, on an ongoing basis, is work with the annual process to make sure that we disclose everything to the Ethics Commissioner, which will help Canadians have confidence. What I know now is that I will ensure that I live by those very high standards, because that will allow me to get on with the work that we want to do to improve the lives of Canadians.

Pensions

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the current bankruptcy process is failing to protect Canadian workers and their families. This is true for the workers and retirees of Sears Canada. Instead of doing something to protect workers, the Liberals continue to support wealthy corporations. What is worse, we learned yesterday that Morneau Shepell will be handling the administration of Sears Canada's pension plan, which means that the finance minister will personally benefit from this liquidation. Is the finance minister comfortable with the fact that, alongside Sears executives getting massive bonuses, he is making money while workers lose their benefits?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Minister of Innovation]

Mr. Speaker, we know that this is a difficult time for the workers, their families, and for many communities.

That is why our government is making every effort to connect Sears employees and pensioners with programs that can assist them during this difficult time. We also understand that current Sears Canada pension funds are held in trust and must be used solely for the benefit of the pensioners.

We will continue to engage and work with the employees and their families to make sure we help them during this difficult time.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Speaker, one thing is perfectly clear: our bankruptcy laws do nothing to protect our workers, and this government is doing nothing to fix that. Sears Canada workers are getting laid off without any severance pay. Retired workers could have their pensions reduced. Meanwhile, are the executives going to get bonuses?

Who else benefits from this agreement? None other than the Minister of Finance.

How can the Liberals accept that their minister is making money on the backs of the unfortunate employees and retired workers of Sears Canada?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Minister of Innovation]

Mr. Speaker, I understand that this is a very difficult time for the employees and their families.

That is why we are engaging with them, and all our colleagues are involved, to help them out where we can. In particular, Service Canada has been meeting with representatives from Sears Canada. Across the country, there have been 80 sessions that have taken place. We will continue to work with them in order to assist them during this difficult time, making sure that they have an opportunity to find meaningful employment going forward and to assist them in this difficult time during this transition period.

Ethics

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance is a bit of a chameleon. However, when we have all the characteristics of a conflict of interest before us, we call that a conflict of interest.

The Minister of Finance is responsible for the tax treaty between Canada and Barbados. Barbados is a known tax haven. Morneau Shepell has a subsidiary in Barbados.

Did the Minister of Finance withdraw from the discussions on this tax treaty?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, while the opposition is focused on me and my personal finances, I will tell the House what we are going to focus on.

We are going to focus on continuing to work for Canadians. The work we have done over the last couple of years is not finished, but it is a really great start. We have a situation where our economy is growing at a pace that was not seen during the years of the previous government. We have seen more growth in employment over the last year than we have seen in a decade.

Canadians are feeling better. Middle-class Canadians have the possibility of getting a job. We know there is more work to be done, and we are going to focus on that.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is sad to see someone like the Minister of Finance think he is beyond reproach.

The Minister of Finance is responsible for the tax treaty between Canada and Barbados. We just learned that he finally decided to show some common sense thanks to our constant pressure. He finally realized that the noose was tightening around his neck and that he was in a conflict of interest.

Before he put his assets in a trust, did he bother to withdraw from any cabinet discussions related to the tax treaty with Barbados?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, as I already said, it is important for Canada to have a system to deal with conflict of interest.

I acted on the recommendations of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner. It is very important to follow those recommendations and to respect people in Parliament. It is an important approach. I will continue to do this, and I have decided to go the extra mile because it is very important to me to be sure I am not in conflict of interest. For example, I have decided to sell my family's shares and set up a blind trust to be sure that I am not and will not be in conflict of interest.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the question was about the Minister of Finance being responsible for the Canada-Barbados tax treaty.

Now Canadians know the Minister of Finance owns millions of dollars of shares in his billion dollar family business, Morneau Shepell. Barbados is a well-known tax haven.

The Minister of Finance's company has a subsidiary in that country, which means he currently benefits from the tax treaty with Barbados. The question is clear, did the Minister of Finance recuse himself from all discussions about the tax treaty?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, the government is firmly committed to combatting tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance.

The fact that our government has invested nearly $1 billion over the past two years is proof positive of the action we are taking—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order. I would like to remind members that making so much noise might take a question away from one of their colleagues, and I would not want that.

The hon. Minister of National Revenue has the floor.