House of Commons Hansard #226 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was c-49.

Topics

EthicsOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

Order. Apparently, interpretation is not working.

I will ask the hon. member to repeat his question, now that the interpretation is working.

EthicsOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Bloc

Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance is introducing a bill on pension plans, when his company manages pension plans. Morneau Shepell manages a pension fund for Bombardier, and yet he negotiated a $372-million loan. The minister is proposing a tax reform that makes businesses pay more taxes, but he included a grandfather clause for his own company. Something does not add up here. If the minister does not have the judgment needed to step back when his own personal interests are at stake, he should simply withdraw from cabinet.

EthicsOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Mississauga—Malton Ontario

Liberal

Navdeep Bains LiberalMinister of Innovation

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his question. Unfortunately, I do not agree with him.

We support the aerospace sector, and we will continue to engage with Bombardier and the suppliers. This is so important to our economy. We will make sure that we invest in research and development. We will make sure that we defend the sector when it is attacked by companies in the U.S. We will continue to support the workers in the aerospace sector.

EthicsOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Boudrias Bloc Terrebonne, QC

Mr. Speaker, what we have here is the same old sponsorship scandal party, the same old Liberal culture of entitlement.

Week after week, every time that government answers a question, Canadians feel more cynical and politicians as a whole look worse. With everything that has been going on, we are going to need another Gomery commission.

Will anyone in that government acknowledge that being a shareholder in a human resources company like Morneau Shepell and introducing a pension fund bill amounts to a potential conflict of interest?

EthicsOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

Toronto Centre Ontario

Liberal

Bill Morneau LiberalMinister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, I worked with the Ethics Commissioner to be certain I was not in conflict of interest.

I believe it is very important to give Canadians a chance to have a dignified retirement. That is one of our main goals. That is why we improved the pension system for all Canadians and the guaranteed income supplement for seniors. We will continue to make things better for our seniors. That is an important goal.

The House resumed from October 27 consideration of the motion that Bill C-46, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (offences relating to conveyances) and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, be read the third time and passed.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

It being 3:10 p.m., pursuant to order made Friday, October 27, 2017, the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion at third reading stage of Bill C-46.

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #383

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

I declare the motion carried.

(Bill read the third time and passed)

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

I wish to inform the House that, because of the deferred recorded division, government orders will be extended by nine minutes.

Transportation Modernization ActGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

The hon. member for Yorkton—Melville has seven minutes remaining in her speech.

Transportation Modernization ActGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Speaker, in the fall of 2016 of the Liberal mandate, the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities undertook a study of Bill C-30 and held a number of meetings on the merits of these measures and whether they should be allowed to sunset. The vast majority of the testimony heard was supportive of maintaining the 160-kilometre regulated interswitching limit. That is why the committee's first recommendation was the following:

That the Canadian Transportation Agency retain the flexibility provided under the Canada Transportation Act by the Fair Rail For Grain Farmers Act to set interswitching distances up to 160 km, in order to maintain a more competitive operating environment for rail shippers with direct access to only one railway company.

The current government ignored the committee's main recommendation. Basically, what the government is proposing with this new legislation is to replace 160-kilometre extended interswitching with the creation of a new long-haul interswitching on hauls of up to 1200 kilometres or up to 50% of the length of the entire haul. Shippers would be charged the regulated interswitching rate for the first 30 kilometres of the haul and then a rate determined by the Canada Transportation Agency, which would be determined on a case-by-case basis based on the price of a similar haul for the remainder of the distance to the interswitch point. Shippers would only be able to interswitch at the first available interswitch point within the zone. What the government has done is effectively taken a little-used existing remedy called a competitive line rate and renamed it long-haul interswitching.

When Bill C-30 was first introduced, there was universal support among shippers for the extended interswitching. The recommendation from stakeholders was to retain the interswitching distances up to 160 kilometres in order to maintain a more competitive operating environment for rail shippers with direct access to only one rail company. Again, the Liberals went through the motions of appearing to consult, and once again deaf ears prevailed.

To make up lost time and opportunity, the transport committee began special hearings on Bill C-49 in the week prior to the House's return from its summer recess. A total of 44 hours of testimony from dozens of stakeholders and expert witnesses was heard in each of the sectors touched by Bill C-49. Also on record are briefs and letters consisting of thousands of pages of data with more than 100 suggested technical amendments from those whose lives and livelihoods would be affected by this bill. From these incredible witnesses, there was unanimous agreement that Bill C-49 was a good start and that, if their suggested amendments were made, the bill would actually accomplish its stated objectives.

After only giving two weeks to review this mountain of information, the Liberal members of the transport committee defeated more than two dozen reasonable technical amendments. Again, these amendments were suggested by a wide range of stakeholders and experts and were written to make the act a workable solution for all involved.

Once again, the Liberals have a skewed definition of consultation—in other words, they pretend to listen and then blah blah blah—and prove again that it is only a buzzword that they used to get elected. With the introduction of long-haul interswitching, the Liberals sought to create their own solution to a problem that had already been addressed with a reasonable Conservative solution. In the Fair Rail for Grain Farmers Act, the previous Conservative government created a regime of extended interswitching that worked so well in the prairie provinces that shippers of all kinds from across Canada requested that it be extended to the entire country. Instead, the Liberals are committed to their complicated, inefficient long-haul interswitching regime that has such poor conception and so many exceptions that it would be basically useless to many shippers.

For example, a minor technical amendment proposed by both Conservative and NDP members of the committee would have changed the wording of the provision to allow the first interchange point to be in the reasonable direction of the shippers' destination. Under the legislation as it is, shippers may have to send their products potentially hundreds of kilometres in the wrong direction to reach the nearest interchange point, increasing their costs.

What happened to this very reasonable amendment? The Liberals defeated it. They ignored the advice and recommendations of even the the most competent, experienced, and concerned Canadians in regard to extended shipping lines.

Canadians have been ignored by this Liberal government. The laudable and credible efforts of Canadians to contribute in meaningful ways to improving the weaknesses of the Liberal legislation have again fallen on the deaf ears of the government.

Transportation Modernization ActGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fonseca Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

Madam Speaker, regarding transportation 2030, what are the member's thoughts about improving our system, modernizing it, increasing its safety and reliability, as well as making it cleaner and more efficient so we can be competitive? What does she have to say about that?

We want to ensure that Canada has a competitive transportation system, but safety is paramount. Does the member not want to see an improvement, a modernization, of our transportation system to ensure the resulting economic benefits, as well as the system's safety, which is paramount to our citizens?

Transportation Modernization ActGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Madam Speaker, as I have stated in regard to interswitching, the Liberal government already had a really good recommendation to continue with what was already in place, something that the people of the Prairies saw as very valuable. As a matter of fact, shippers across this country said they wanted it to remain in place for them.

This new approach is complicating things to the point where they will probably have to send their products in the opposite direction from which they need to send them. A simple recommendation to fix that was denied by the Liberal government. To me, that is not putting the interests of our shippers first.

Transportation Modernization ActGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, when I was sitting in opposition, we had a serious problem out west on the Prairies in getting wheat to market. Many farmers felt frustrated with the government of the day, the Harper government, not responding with necessary legislative changes to provide additional assurances of service to them. The best example I can give is that we had piles of wheat in the Prairies, empty ships on the coast, and a Harper government doing nothing to address the issue.

Does the member not, at the very least, acknowledge that the government is moving forward on some important issues that will have a positive impact on our farmers out west and, in fact, on farmers in general?

Transportation Modernization ActGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Madam Speaker, actually, many shippers feel that the new approach to long-haul interswitching to be created by Bill C-49 will merely be a renamed version of the current and hardly used competitive line rates. There must be reasons that system is hardly used. This new long-haul interswitching rate would be more difficult for shippers to use and would also not serve as a useful tool in negotiations with the railroads, which Bill C-30 did. That bill was greatly appreciated by our farmers, to the point where they said to the government that they did not want to see it changed. They wanted to see that good policy continue.

There is another issue with this long-haul interswitching remedy. It will increase U.S. railroad access to Canadian traffic at regulated rates without reciprocity. When NAFTA is being renegotiated, it is unwise for Canada to be making this concession before those negotiations have gotten to where they need to be on this issue.

Transportation Modernization ActGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Madam Speaker, my hon. friend represents a riding in the Prairies, I represent a riding on the coast, and we have a real connectivity problem in getting grain from the fields to container ships and out of the Port of Vancouver.

Does my hon. colleague agree that Transport Canada could do more to better coordinate the shipment of grain by rail to connect with the large container ships when they reach our west coast?

Transportation Modernization ActGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Madam Speaker, I know this is of deep concern to the hon. member and her riding. There are a lot of ships that come in and pick up a certain amount of grain, but based on quota and whatnot, they have to wait for the next amount to come in before they can fill their ship. This is causing issues on the coast.

Clearly, Canada has a lot to do to improve the way we network internationally. However, the first step is doing everything we can to ensure that our products that are landlocked on the Prairies get to those ports in a timely manner.

Transportation Modernization ActGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Bloc

Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC

Madam Speaker, Bill C-49, the transportation modernization act, does not live up to its name. Many aspects of this bill represent, quite simply, a step backwards.

The government announced its air passenger bill of rights and many other great measures as part of this bill. Not only is the bill of rights not there, but there is nothing to enhance our security. We see this as a missed opportunity. Bill C-49 could have really addressed some of the concerns of Canadians, like the people in Lac-Mégantic, for example, who are still waiting for their bypass. This omnibus bill is problematic in many ways. Unfortunately, once again and as usual, the government is introducing a bill that is far too big to be examined effectively. This omnibus bill includes a lot of measures, and we did not have time to comb through it and discuss it properly.

As well, in the Bloc Québécois, we have fewer rights than members of the other parties in the House. There are not enough of us. We cannot sit on committees, ask questions to experts who come testify, or debate the bill in depth in the House. My comments today will therefore be the only ones by my party on this bill, which will have major repercussions on transportation as a whole and affect many of our laws.

For example, Bill C-49 gives the minister the authority to allow airlines to circumvent the Competition Bureau as he sees fit. That is something. Call a spade a spade: it makes no sense. The government is politicizing a process that currently a judicial one. Come on. We can already see the lobbyists in the minister’s office, and almost lining up one by one to get the green light to act on plans that will reduce competition. We can even imagine that they will obtain that by attending a fundraising cocktail party. It seems to be a model that works.

How can the Minister claim that that is for the good of passengers? We are not fooled. Everyone in the House understands that the government does not want to repeat the situation we saw in 2011 and 2012, when Air Canada and United Continental wanted to coordinate their activities on 19 transborder routes. The Competition Bureau studied the matter and determined that, on 14 of those routes, Air Canada would have far too much market share, which would have greatly reduced competition. The bureau found that a near-monopoly on certain routes would lead to an increase in the rates paid by travellers. Its role is to block that, and that is what it did.

For some routes, like Montreal to Washington or Montreal to Houston, Air Canada and United Continental together would have held the entire market. That is a near-monopoly for sure. In the end, travellers would have paid the increase in ticket prices, which is obviously unfair, because of the rules of trade. The Competition Bureau stated that, if the situation changed, it would be reassessed. That is logical and fair, even though Air Canada did not like the decision, as they wanted to line their pockets.

It was the right decision for travellers and other businesses. The Competition Bureau committed to reassessing the situation if there were any changes. In our opinion, there was therefore no problem. If we do not want that to happen again, why would we want to politicize something that is not politicised? Why give the Minister the authority to circumvent the Competition Bureau? That is what we are asking here, and that is one of the elements that we deplore in Bill C-49.

What purpose will the Competition Bureau and the Competition Tribunal serve if the government gives the minister the authority to circumvent them as he sees fit? We can see that, with the Liberals, the interests of travellers take a back seat to those of big business and party cronies. We can think of Air Canada in particular.

Another thing I would like to mention is foreign ownership. This bill seeks to increase the foreign investment limit for air carriers from 25%, or one-quarter, to 49%, which is basically half. A single corporation or individual cannot own more than 25% of voting shares. The idea here is to give airlines more cash flow and to promote the creation of low-cost carrier services. The government is saying that Canadian air carriers will not be subject to the controlling influence of international investors. That seems fine at first glance, but it creates an opening that allows the government to get its foot in the door and make major changes to the way things are done. We are worried about the future. What will the next step be? The next time a company like Air Canada is on the verge of bankruptcy, will it meet with the minister to say that it wants to be sold to a foreign company?

We already know that the government did not even make Air Canada obey the law when it decided to hand over its maintenance division to Aveos. The government even changed the law after the fact, and announced it the Thursday before an Easter recess. I remember. I was very angry with the transport minister that day. That is why these measures being announced in an omnibus bill is not very reassuring.

It is the same thing when it comes to shipping and coasting trade. The government is taking a number of steps backward in that regard. Bill C-49 will allow ships registered in other countries to reposition empty containers, when currently only Canadian shipowners have that right. Way to go. It is already clear that good jobs will be lost here in Canada and that they will be replaced by cheap foreign labour. Why? The government is putting large foreign corporations ahead of Canadians. That is not even to mention the different training standards, which means that there will not only be fewer jobs here in Canada but that there will also be a decline in the quality of work and a significant increase in the risk of accidents. That is no small thing.

We also have concerns over the part of the bill on transporting products on our river. The bill allows ships registered in European Union countries to transport bulk commodities between the ports of Montreal and Halifax in accordance with the Canada-EU agreement. We are concerned about this announcement and the pilotage legislation that is being discussed. By all accounts it looks to us as though our seaway pilots will no longer be the only ones to navigate the St. Lawrence River. That is one of our major concerns and we see an opening in it. We know that it takes a real expert to navigate our river. It has challenging winding routes and many obstacles.

It is more than our jobs being threatened, but our very safety. The pilots' role is not just to pilot their ship, but also to assess whether the ship that enters the seaway presents an environmental or security risk. Our pilots are also responsible for protecting the public's safety and well-being and can decide that a certain ship is not to enter our river.

The day this role is no longer reserved for seaway pilots is the day we have serious problems. A foreign pilot hired by a foreign country that instructs the pilot to do their job without concern for the environment or safety will have no choice but to follow orders. Why take this chance? This should not be allowed. We have to remain vigilant and speak out against such practices. We are unnecessarily exposing ourselves to huge risks.

There are many elements in this mammoth bill. We do not have the time to study them all, but we would like to draw the attention of the House to the issue of the infrastructure bank. Bill C-49 shows us once again that the federal government is backing away from infrastructure. The bill opens the door wide to the funding of ports and other federal infrastructure by the infrastructure privatization bank. Investors will expect to make a profit, the infrastructure will not be maintained as well, and there will be more charges and fees. Taxpayers will have to pay more. As we have said, with this bank, profits are privatized while losses are socialized. It is too bad that this is in Bill C-49. Once again, the Liberals are helping their friends.

As I said in my introduction, there are many reasons why the Bloc Québécois will be voting against this mammoth bill and we do not have time to cannot mention them all. This bill just does not address Quebeckers' concerns. As I said at the beginning, we were expecting that there would be something for the people of Lac-Mégantic, but there is absolutely nothing. There is no mention of the bypass.

The government has made it a habit to put everything into a single mammoth bill, even though it is breaking an election promise by doing so, and then making sure that we cannot study it thoroughly. That is not the best approach to take and we are against it.

This bill politicizes a process by giving the minister the authority to circumvent the Competition Tribunal. That is a step backwards, a step in the wrong direction. It will contribute to the loss of our businesses. It is the withdrawal of the state for the benefit of the private sector. The government is potentially jeopardizing safety on the St. Lawrence River and sacrificing our jobs for the benefit of foreign companies.

As everyone may have guessed, the Bloc Québécois will be opposing this bill, which we found severely disappointing.

Transportation Modernization ActGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fonseca Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

Madam Speaker, I am sure the member often travels by plane or rail. When we get on a plane, we want to know that there are always continuous improvements and that employees are always looking after our safety. That is paramount. On a plane, voice recorders are in the cockpit and data is being collected. All of that is put into place. That does not happen today when it comes to rail safety.

We have seen some tragic incidents take place over this past year, and in prior years. The former government shirked its responsibility to address that safety. We want to ensure that safety is there, by looking to those continuous improvements to ensure data and the voice recordings are captured in the cockpit so we can use it to improve our systems. Therefore, we are bringing safety, modernization, and innovation together to ensure passengers are as safe as they would be in a plane.

We do not want to see any kind of incidents happen with respect to our planes. It is the same with our rail safety. Does the member think this is a good thing? Would that help his community and his citizens?

Transportation Modernization ActGovernment Orders

3:45 p.m.

Bloc

Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the member for Mississauga for his question. First, I would remind him that I travel by bike more than by train or plane. Living in Joliette allows me to get around using active modes of transportation such as walking and cycling.

I must say I find the actions of the Liberal government deplorable. It is the same for almost all issues. If we listen to their speeches, like the one my colleague just gave, we hear fine statements about about train safety and about how we need to do more and what the government is doing is fantastic. In speaking about the budget and finance, the government constantly refers to the middle class. The mini budget repeated that phrase 61 times. In reality, however, both it and the budget contained virtually no measures for the middle class.

In our opinion, the rail safety measures set out in Bill C-49 are completely inadequate. Yes, putting black boxes on locomotives and recording what is done is another step, but people in Quebec just lived through the Lac-Mégantic disaster. The subcontractor must have its own maintenance and monitoring plan. Everything is being left up to the private sector. That is the ultimate in complacency. Rail cars that are no longer up to standard are being used to transport oil. Companies are pressuring employees. We are still dealing with the same toxic combination that previously ended in disaster, and that is shameful. This would have been the time to present a real comprehensive rail safety plan so that a tragedy like that never happens again. The government should have given the people of Lac-Mégantic something, like a rail bypass, and made sure that a situation like that never happens again.

Right now, all we have is a black box for rail passengers who are travelling. The government is out of touch with reality. Once again, we agree with what the Liberal Party is saying, but it is not backing up its words with action. The Liberals cannot govern using only a communications plan.

Transportation Modernization ActGovernment Orders

3:45 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I disagree with the member across the way when he tries to give the impression that very little has been done. The minister has indicated a commitment to safety on a number of occasions. Within two years, we brought legislation forward to deal with safety. The member might have wanted to see a lot more done in that area, but having sat in opposition for a number of years, the Harper government did nothing with respect to that. It did not give it the attention necessary.

Therefore, I am a bit surprised that, at the very least, the member would not recognize we are moving in the right direction. There is always room for improvement. In fact, we saw that at the standing committee. A number of opposition amendments were accepted and incorporated into the legislation.

Would the member not agree that the actions of the government to date are far greater than what we witnessed in the previous 10 years under the Harper government? Yes, there is some room for improvement, but at least we have a minister that has currently said that this is of the utmost importance and that we will continue to do what we can to ensure our railways are safe.

Transportation Modernization ActGovernment Orders

3:45 p.m.

Bloc

Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC

Madam Speaker, in Quebec, between high school and university, students attend CEGEP, where they take mandatory philosophy classes. In those classes, they learn about sophisms, which are false arguments. One can condemn what the previous government did, but one cannot justify one's own actions on the grounds that those of the other government were worse.

The idea of a black box in passenger trains is a step in the right direction, but it is a very, very small step. I just talked about the Lac-Mégantic tragedy. There is a lot to be done, and we see this as urgent.

My colleague, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, said the Liberals are taking a step in the right direction, but the problem is that all of the other elements in this mammoth bill are big steps in the wrong direction. On seaway safety, I am sorry, but this is anything but reassuring, and the situation is getting much worse. On air transportation and the Competition Bureau, why is the minister giving himself the power to just ignore the analysis of transactions? What was wrong with the existing system? I think there has been too much pressure from lobby groups. We need a government that can stand up to businesses and do a better job of ensuring safety and keeping prices down to benefit consumers. Bill C-49 is certainly a step in the right direction in some cases, but it is not nearly enough considering everything that needs to be done.

Transportation Modernization ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, the member across the way made reference to air travel. We know the legislation will enable the minister to provide to all Canadians throughout every region of our country a sense of more accountability from airlines by putting in place rights for air passengers. Constituents who I represent perceive this as a very strong thing. It was part of the election platform we put forward to Canadians. We are fulfilling another commitment.

Would my friend across the way not agree that his constituents would be pleased to know we have forward momentum in dealing with the very important and sensitive matter of ensuring airlines are more accountable for the services they provide? At the least the opportunity is there today for government, after this legislation passes. The opposition can then hold the government and the minister accountable if it feels they have in fact dropped the ball once the regulations are in place.