House of Commons Hansard #153 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chair.

Topics

Operation UNIFIERGovernment Orders

8:20 p.m.

Waterloo Ontario

Liberal

Bardish Chagger LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

moved:

That the House take note of Operation UNIFIER.

Operation UNIFIERGovernment Orders

8:20 p.m.

University—Rosedale Ontario

Liberal

Chrystia Freeland LiberalMinister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Chair, I want to thank this House for the opportunity to lead this important debate on the extension of Operation Unifier, a critical part of our assistance to support Ukraine sovereignty, security, and stability. I am confident that all hon. members will support Canada's ongoing efforts to support the people of Ukraine and to help them defend their territory.

Earlier this month, the Minister of National Defence and I were pleased to announce the extension of Unifier until March 2019. The extension means that Canada will continue to support the professional development of the Ukrainian armed forces, an institution that is essential for the sustainable stabilization and development of Ukraine.

Canada is deploying approximately 200 Canadian Armed Forces personnel to Ukraine until the end of March 2019. Canadian Armed Forces members will come from all parts of Canada, bringing with them their unique skills and capacities in support of Unifier training programs.

Last summer, together with the Prime Minister, I had the honour of visiting our troops and seeing them in action, in Yavoriv, working with their Ukrainian partners. I was proud and I was impressed. We are privileged to have them represent us in Ukraine. On behalf of this House, on behalf of the government, I would like to say to all of our troops in Ukraine, we thank them very much. Dyakuyu.

Many members in this House know that the people of Ukraine have very close ties with the people of Canada. Diversity is our strength. In fact, our countries have enjoyed a close relationship going back more than 125 years. The first two Ukrainian settlers, and members can imagine how brave they were, arrived in Montreal on board the steamship SS Oregon in 1891. This marked the beginning of many waves of Ukrainian immigration to Canada, waves that would help build some of the most vibrant and caring communities across our country.

Ukrainian immigrants played a particularly important role in settling the Canadian prairies, where I, and many members of this House, grew up. Our Ukrainian-Canadian community played a central role in creating what I considered to be one of Canada's greatest political ideas and accomplishments: multiculturalism. There are now over 1.2 million Canadians of Ukrainian descent.

However, Canada's support for Ukraine goes beyond the strong and long-standing human ties between our countries. We support Ukraine because of our values. We support Ukraine because we support democracy. We support Ukraine because we support the sanctity of borders. We support Ukraine because we support the international rule of law.

Today Canada stands alongside Ukraine in defending its borders and sovereignty against illegal acts of aggression. Canada has led its G7 partners in condemning Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea and the invasion of Crimea. We continue to take action to help the people of Ukraine defend their country and to stabilize and rebuild their economy. Canada has imposed sanctions against Russian and Ukrainian individuals and entities and has announced more than $700 million in assistance to Ukraine and more than $240 million in development assistance.

As Canadians have heard from the Minister of National Defence and from me, the extension of Operation Unifier will support the professional development of the Ukrainian armed forces, who are essential in deterring aggression and creating a safe space for the sustainable social and economic development the people of Ukraine need and deserve.

Last summer I was honoured to sign, in Kiev, in the presence of our Prime Minister and Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko, the Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement. I am delighted and grateful that it was unanimously supported by all members of this House.

These measures, taken with strong cross-party support and with strong support across our country, are working. The Ukrainian economy has overcome the shock of this ongoing conflict and has actually been growing for the past year. Foreign investment, including by such Canadian flagships as Fairfax Financial, is resuming.

Decentralization, supported by our local economic development programs, is putting resources into the hands of grassroots communities, resulting in modernized hospitals and social services. An honest and trusted new police force, with a significant female presence, is on the streets of the country's 32 biggest cities, thanks in part to the great work of committed Canadians, like Montreal's Natalia Shuster, who I was pleased to meet in Ukraine last summer.

Canada's support for Ukraine has only grown stronger in the face of unprecedented challenges to Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity stemming from Russia's illegal invasion and annexation of Crimea in March 2014 and its ongoing support to the separatists in eastern Ukraine.

We were in opposition at the time, but I and my party were pleased to support the government of the day when Canada joined the international community in immediately condemning Russia's occupation of Crimea, and we supported United Nations General Assembly resolution 68-262, which affirmed the General Assembly's commitment to the territorial integrity of Ukraine within its internationally recognized borders.

Canada has also imposed sanctions against key officials involved in the annexation. Additional sanctions related specifically to Crimea were subsequently introduced. Most recently, in November 2016, our government imposed sanctions against an additional 15 individuals, including six who were elected to the Russian State Duma from the illegally annexed territory of Crimea.

Let me be very clear: Canada does not and will not recognize Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea.

We have also been clear that we will continue to strongly condemn Russia's continued support for the separatist insurrection in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in eastern Ukraine. The sharp rise in violence in and around Avdiivka earlier this year reminds us that the civilian population in the conflict zone pays a heavy price. An estimated 20,000 people had to go without electricity, potable water, or heating when temperatures threatened to drop to -20 degrees Celsius. That is why it was possible for Ukrainians to come to Canada.

We will continue to pressure Russia, including through the current sanctions, to fully implement the commitments it made under the Minsk agreements and use its influence on the separatists to meet its obligations.

The ultimate goal of our support is to promote the security, stability, and prosperity of Ukraine.

We will continue to build on the solid foundation that we have established with Ukraine and we will continue to engage in a rich and mutually beneficial partnership based on common values and a commitment to regional and international security.

When I was Minister of International Trade, I had the honour of attending the signing of the Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement. Now, as Minister of Foreign Affairs, I look forward to exploring opportunities to further strengthen our close and mutually beneficial relationship with Ukraine.

One of my favourite Ukrainian poets is Ivan Franko, and one of his great poems is called To the Big Moment. In that poem he writes, “Let every one of you be ready for the great moment”.

This really is Ukraine's great testing moment. I think the people of Ukraine are showing themselves to be ready and I am proud that the people of Canada are showing themselves ready to support the people of Ukraine.

In this House we often disagree. Indeed, one of the reasons we are here is to highlight for Canadians the differences between our parties. However, when it comes to the issue of Ukraine and the issue of the values we are standing for in supporting Ukraine, all of us are united. This is truly not a partisan issue, and I am glad to be here to speak up for Ukraine and for Canada's support for Ukraine.

Operation UNIFIERGovernment Orders

8:30 p.m.

Conservative

Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

Mr. Chair, I thank the hon. minister for her remarks, which were a tour d'horizon of the previous government's support, and obviously the support of the minister and the government as well.

I was in Ukraine, as the hon. minister knows, from February 28 to March 3, on a humanitarian mission with One Free World International. There are over one million displaced persons in Ukraine right now. They have been displaced by the horrific war that is still going on. It is not a cold war, but a hot war in the Donbass region. I visited the military hospital. Many Canadian doctors are there, working overnight shifts because there are young men who need their help after being in the war zone.

I also met with a number of Ukrainian officials. They worried about the corruption in their society still and how Canada could help them.

I have a three-part question for the hon. minister. I know we have Operation Unifier, which is amazing and should be continued, but how can we help combat corruption? How can we help make sure Ukrainian soldiers can better defend their homeland? How can we help the displaced persons who need our help?

Operation UNIFIERGovernment Orders

8:30 p.m.

Liberal

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the hon. member for Parry Sound—Muskoka for his very strong and long-standing support for Ukraine and for taking a position on this issue in particular which does rise above partisanship. I am pleased to acknowledge that here, and it shows how the House can be a really great and strong place in support not only of Ukrainian democracy but Canadian democracy.

On the issues that the member opposite raised, I would like to join with him in highlighting the very important work that many Canadian members of civil society are doing in supporting the people of Ukraine, particularly on the medical side. We all have people in our constituencies who are providing humanitarian aid and doctors who are working there. I was in touch with one woman in my constituency yesterday who is involved in such an effort, and we should salute those private efforts of Canadians.

Definitely our government is engaged in humanitarian support for the people of Ukraine. As the hon. member mentioned, that includes medical support, but we need to think about what we can do for those displaced people. It really is a crisis. I spoke about Ukraine's economic performance. It is important for us, as we consider what the Ukrainian government is able to do, to appreciate that this is happening against the backdrop of an ongoing hot military conflict and a backdrop of a huge internal displaced persons crisis. That makes what the government has managed to do really all that much more impressive.

To the point the member raises about corruption, like him, I have heard concerns about corruption from many Ukrainians. Perhaps as Ukraine's strongest friends in the international community, we need to support both Ukraine civil society and the Ukrainian government in fighting against that corruption. At the end of the day, important though we all know Operation Unifier to be, I ultimately think Ukraine's sovereignty is going to be secured on the economic battlefield. If Ukraine is able to reform its economy, to reform its political institutions, to end corruption, then Ukraine will be strong enough to remain independent. There is a lot of work that Canada is able to do to help Ukraine in that effort.

Operation UNIFIERGovernment Orders

8:35 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the hon. minister for her speech. We are well aware of each other's commitment to the community and through her family.

I am glad that the minister raised the issue about civil society. I had the privilege a number of years back to travel with the foreign affairs committee to Ukraine, before the government changed, to look into the erosion of rule of law and the erosion of democracy.

I met with representatives of the media, representatives of families who had been jailed, representatives of families who had been kicked out of the country. I heard concerns from human rights organizations. It is great that we now have a trade agreement with Ukraine. The problem is that we need to give more support to civil society to make sure that all Ukrainians benefit from economic development. As members in this place have mentioned, there is continuing corruption.

Does the minister agree that the government should be increasing its support to civil society? Young Ukrainians like the ones who have come here to intern have gone back to Ukraine and want to work with the government toward their direct engagement in the future of their country—not just in the development of the economy, but in creating better courts and a better judicial system.

Operation UNIFIERGovernment Orders

8:35 p.m.

Liberal

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

Mr. Chair, I would like to start by personally acknowledging the long-standing commitment of the member for Edmonton Strathcona to Ukraine and the work she has done over many years in supporting Ukraine, very much in collaboration with and on behalf of her constituents.

The member referred to the Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement. I know that my colleagues in the New Democratic Party are not always wildly enthusiastic about trade agreements, so I was particularly pleased that the NDP supported, together with the rest of the House, the Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement. That says a lot about the cross-party support in this House for Ukraine and a lot about the understanding we all have that supporting Ukraine economically is such a central part of the support we can give that country.

As I said earlier, I share with the member opposite a real admiration for and belief in the power of Ukrainian civil society. That is probably the strongest element of Ukraine right now. It is what Ukraine really has going for it: an active, engaged, often querulous, courageous, unafraid-to-criticize-the-government civil society, particularly with very engaged young people.

Canada's government and Canadian civil society are very closely engaged with Ukrainian civil society. We are already working hard to support them. However, I would agree with the member opposite that this is a group of people we should be working closely with and supporting.

The member opposite referred to the parliamentary internship program. A lot of us have worked with Ukrainian parliamentary interns. It has been a pleasure for me to go to Ukraine and discover how many members of this new democratic government of Ukraine cut their teeth learning about democracy in this House. I certainly join with the member opposite in strongly supporting that effort.

Operation UNIFIERGovernment Orders

8:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

We have time for a brief question.

The hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands.

Operation UNIFIERGovernment Orders

8:40 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Chair, unfortunately, it is hard to ask a brief question about an issue so complex. I will quickly say that one reason I had no problem voting for the Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement was that it did not include an investor state provision that had been brought in separately in advance.

I appreciate that it is a badge of honour for the minister personally to have been singled out by Vladimir Putin for sanctions, but on the other hand, the situation in the region is one in which we do not want to let things devolve into black and white. Crimea is clearly culturally different and it is Russian in its makeup. Solzhenitsyn, even as the USSR was falling apart, asked what would be done for Russian nationals who had been distributed through all of these other states. There is a complexity here that I do not want us to lose so that we can play a diplomatic role.

While I agree in large measure with what the minister has said, I remain concerned that Poroshenko came to power initially through what looks a lot like a coup. Now we want to support the people of Ukraine, but we also want to support the cause of peace and turning down the temperature.

I wonder if the minister has any help for me, given that I very briefly expressed something too complex for brevity.

Operation UNIFIERGovernment Orders

8:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

In 45 seconds or less, if possible, the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Operation UNIFIERGovernment Orders

8:40 p.m.

Liberal

Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

Mr. Chair, since I have to be very brief, let me say that I absolutely agree that politics are complex, domestic politics are complex, and international politics are complex, but some issues are black and white.

The invasion of Crimea and its subsequent annexation were illegal. They were clear violations of international law. That is why the world community has been united in opposing them, and that is why our government is proud to oppose them clearly and unambiguously.

Operation UNIFIERGovernment Orders

8:40 p.m.

Conservative

James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB

Mr. Chair, it is indeed an honour to speak about Operation Unifier. I want to thank the minister for her comments, and I want to thank the Liberal government for extending the Conservative Party's original Operation Unifier. It is the same in size and scope, and has the same ideal, which is to provide the training that so many military in Ukraine need.

We have to remember that when this battle broke out, when Russia invaded and illegally occupied and illegally annexed Crimea, Ukraine's military had been somewhat decimated under the leadership of President Yanukovych. Yanukovych had taken away their ability to train and their ability to fight. He had sold the Ukraine military equipment and machine behind it.

To hear the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands talk about a coup, she is completely discrediting the students, the citizens of Kiev, the citizens of Lviv, the citizens right across Ukraine who took to the streets to protest against the corrupt government of Viktor Yanukovych and everything that he stood for.

He turned his back, after negotiating a comprehensive economic free trade agreement and co-operation agreement with Europe that actually was the catalyst for the people of Ukraine, especially the youth, tired of being lied to by Viktor Yanukovych and his regime. He was there, propped up by Vladimir Putin, propped up by illegal money coming in from the Russian mafia, funnelled through Donbass, especially through Donetsk. That individual robbed the treasury of the people of Ukraine. He took all of the gold reserves, all of the cash reserves, and fled to Rostov-on-Don in Russia.

That was not a coup. It was not orchestrated by anyone in the west. This was a citizens' revolution of dignity on the Euromaidan that took place in Kiev and across Ukraine. We must never, ever forget that. For anyone to come in here with fake news from RT television, Russia Today television, I can say upsets me, as members can tell, to no extent of my better judgment.

I have to say that as Conservatives, although we are happy that the government has extended Operation Unifier, we did present the government a couple of weeks ago with our own Ukrainian defence and aid package, because there is so much to be done. There is so much that Ukraine has asked for. There is so much that the Ukrainian community has called upon the Government of Canada to continue to do. The Ukrainian Canadian Congress sent out a great briefing to all members of Parliament for tonight's debate talking about what needs to happen, what the background is for those members who are not familiar with everything that has taken place in Ukraine, of the interference that is coming from Vladimir Putin and the regime in the Kremlin.

I have to share my sentiments with the Minister of Foreign Affairs. I know she is sincere. She is as passionate as I am about Ukraine and everything that Ukraine stands for. As prairie farm kids of Ukrainian heritage, she and I share that ideal and connection to the homeland of our baba and gido and want to make sure that our families' roots of the old country, as we always called it out in the Prairies, are never forgotten, and that we stand with the people of Ukraine.

As is being demonstrated tonight in the debate here, we are in solidarity with the people of Ukraine. We stand with them in their support of democracy. We stand with them as they want to have reform of their judicial system, of their economy. As the minister alluded to, the negotiation of the Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement started under the previous Conservative government of Stephen Harper and was finalized by the minister herself. I thank her for carrying the ball over the goal line and making sure that this deal happened to ensure that Ukraine has that opportunity for economic prosperity. That will be the telling tale at the end of the day, that Ukraine has succeeded.

On top of expanding and continuing Operation Unifier, I have to thank the brave men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces. Even though the government just announced a week and a half ago that it was extending the mission for another two years, fresh troops, fresh trainers out of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry stationed in Edmonton were deployed more than three weeks ago. They are on the ground doing the training. They have taken over from the troops that are returning to Canada. I thank all members of the Canadian Armed Forces who are over there helping Ukraine.

As a former parliamentary secretary to the minister of defence I had the opportunity to accompany our delivery of non-kinetic defensive equipment for the military of Ukraine. I am talking 70,000 pairs of boots, winter coats, jackets, night vision goggles, and also the supply of RADARSAT imagery which is so important. Unfortunately, last year the government cancelled that program. I still call upon the Liberals to reinstate RADARSAT 2 imagery. It was saving lives. When he visited here two years ago, President Poroshenko said in the House that RADARSAT 2 imagery was saving lives. We shared that data so Ukraine knew what the Russian-backed rebels were doing in Donbass. When it could see the movement of troops and heavy artillery across the Russian border into Ukraine, Ukraine's troops were able to reposition themselves accordingly. Without those radar images from RADARSAT 2, we are putting those troops in danger.

As we have witnessed since the end of 2016, the Minsk agreements are not at all being enforced. They are not being respected by Russia. They are definitely not being respected by the Russian-backed rebels in Donetsk and Luhansk, and Ukraine is paying the price.

It is contingent upon us, especially the Government of Canada, to resupply Ukraine's military with RADARSAT images so it knows what the Russians are up to and what equipment they are providing and it does not just rely on intel.

We called on the government to add Ukraine to the automatic firearms country control list so that officials could come to Canada and buy Canadian-made weapons. They have to be able to defend themselves. If we could supply them with sniper rifles, Javelin missiles, anti-tank missiles, if we could provide them with the equipment to take out any short-range mortar attacks and defend their sovereignty, defend their troops, defend civilians in Ukraine, they would be better off. Canada would be better off and all of NATO would be better off if Ukraine was better able to defend itself. If the Ukrainian military had the equipment it needs to stop the advancement of Russia and its imperialistic advancement into eastern Ukraine, and who knows how far it is willing to go, Ukraine would be able to slow down the progress and prevent us some point down the line from having to put our troops in harm's way to stop this war in Ukraine. We definitely do not want to see it spread to other NATO members.

I do appreciate that Canadian troops are going to Latvia as part of Operation Reassurance, that our CF-18s are going to be redeployed in NATO, as the Conservative government did, to do Baltic air policing and air policing in Romania, Iceland, and other countries. I also appreciate that our frigate from the Royal Canadian Navy is always in the Mediterranean, in the Black Sea and in the Baltic Sea.

In the past, the Minister of Foreign Affairs has called for Magnitsky-style legislation. I tabled a bill in the House. Our colleague Conservative senator Raynell Andreychuk has Bill S-226 in the Senate, which is at third reading stage. I call upon the government to support that bill when it comes to the House of Commons so that we can have Magnitsky-style legislation to put in place the proper sanctions for corrupt foreign officials and stop the abuse that is happening at the hands of the people of Ukraine and the people of Russia and other countries around the world.

I just wish the minister would put in place the sanctions that she herself had called for. When she was in the opposition as a member of the third party, she used to call repeatedly for the government to sanction Igor Sechin and Vladimir Yakunin and still they are not sanctioned. The minister will have to explain that one herself.

As a Conservative government, we did provide a pile of support. The minister talked about $700 million of support for Ukraine. Some $600 million of that was provided by the Conservative government.

Again, we stand united for Ukraine in this House of Commons, and I just have to say, Slava Ukraini.

Operation UNIFIERGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Mr. Chair, I, along with the member, was privileged to be part of the defence committee delegation that was in Washington, D.C., two weeks ago. What was most striking to me was the assurances we received no matter whom we met with. People felt that Putin would challenge President Trump, that he was certain to challenge him. From almost everyone who was asked more specifically from where that challenge would come, the answer was Ukraine. Therefore, I am glad we are having this debate tonight.

Does the member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman share my concern that we really need to step up both the actual support and our diplomatic support for Ukraine in the face of this expected Russian challenge that will come to Trump in Ukraine?

Operation UNIFIERGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Conservative

James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB

Mr. Chair, I want to thank my colleague, the NDP critic for defence, for the great work that he does on the defence committee.

I share his view that there is definitely a concern in Washington, as there is here, that Russia is no longer a trusted partner in the geopolitics not only of eastern Europe and Ukraine but also with respect to the aggression it is showing around the world, and its complete dismissive attitude toward other world leaders and the rule of law from an international standpoint. What it did in Crimea is a case in point on how it is prepared to redraw international boundaries without any respect or apprehension at all for how the world may react. We do have to continue isolating Vladimir Putin on the world stage. We have to continue the sanctions until Russia and the people of Russia realize that the path they are on is not acceptable to the world as a whole.

There is a concern from the lessons learned on how Vladimir Putin thinks. The member is correct in pointing out that Vladimir Putin will test President Trump. He tested President Obama early on in his presidency when President Obama made the decision that he was going to draw a red line on whether or not he was going to bring military action against Syria for the use of chemical weapons and then did nothing. That was the signal for Vladimir Putin to actually invade Ukraine. When he sees someone waffling, he takes it as a weakness and an opportunity to advance his own imperialistic aspirations to expand the Russian Federation. Although Vladimir Putin is KGB trained, has been the President of Russia for a very long time, and is probably the richest man in the world, we have to also realize that this individual has an imperialistic view of a return of the old days, not of the Soviet Union but of the Russian empire itself.

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8:55 p.m.

Conservative

Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

Mr. Chair, I would like the hon. member to expand on the legal framework, because I hear apologists who take the Putin line ask, and we heard it in this House just a few minutes ago, why we should care about Crimea as it is primarily Russian. Perhaps the hon. member can describe in more detail the legal framework that was based on the fact that the major powers guaranteed the sovereignty and the borders of Ukraine at the time it gave up its nuclear arsenal at the breakup of the Soviet Union. Perhaps the hon. member could delve into that a bit.

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8:55 p.m.

Conservative

James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB

Mr. Chair, I want to thank our public safety critic. He knows all too well that the Budapest memorandum was signed in 1991 by the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Ukraine, and Russia, five partners, who all said that they would honour the sovereign territory of Ukraine if they gave up their nuclear warheads. It was the second-largest arsenal in the world, even ahead of the United States at that time. They gave it all up. Where did most of those nuclear warheads go? They ended up back in Russia to be dismantled, to be disposed of.

How were they paid back? Just over 20 years later, they were invaded by Russia itself. Mother Russia came back to claim what they consider to be Russian territory.

We have to remember that Ukraine existed before Russia did. We have to remember that the Crimean Tatars, the indigenous people of Crimea, have said no to this invasion and illegal occupation and now are being banned of their human rights. They are no longer allowed to worship in their mosques. They are no longer allowed to meet and associate together in their parliamentary assembly, the Mejlis. They are no longer allowed to produce their papers or have their radio stations or television stations. Freedom of speech and freedom of the press have been completely removed by the Russian occupier in Crimea. The Kremlin illegally annexed it, they fixed the referendum, and the world did not honour the Budapest memorandum.

What do these legal treaties and world laws mean if nobody is going to enforce them? The least that we can do, as Canada, is to continue to isolate Vladimir Putin and the regime in the Kremlin from carrying out their aspirations on the world stage, ignore them in international organizations, and work through other groups like NATO to force them back to the table and out of Ukraine.

Crimea is Ukraine, Donbass is Ukraine, and Canada will always stand with the people of Ukraine.

Operation UNIFIERGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Saint-Jean Québec

Liberal

Jean Rioux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence

Mr. Chair, if I understand correctly, the hon. member spoke in his remarks about having more lethal weapons.

We are currently part of the International Joint Commission, and agreements exist that provide for the United States and other countries to deal with that. In 2014, the Conservative Party provided non-lethal equipment. I am thinking mainly of winter equipment, including boots and coats, and various types of equipment after that.

Why would we not keep the Conservatives' approach while respecting the agreement with the International Joint Commission, of which we are part?

Operation UNIFIERGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Conservative

James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB

Mr. Chair, I want to thank the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence for his comments, and I want to remind him that we have to remember first and foremost, I actually advocated for the non-lethal military equipment that we provided to the Ukrainian military. I accompanied some of those equipment deliveries in 2014 and 2015. At that point, we had just signed the second Minsk agreement. That agreement was holding. It was working. We were participating in the co-operation training agreement with the United Kingdom and the United States in training up Ukrainian forces.

However, in the last six months, the Minsk agreements are no longer holding. The violations are rising on a daily basis. Troops are killed and injured every single day. There have been 10,000 Ukrainians who have been killed because of the situation. The military in Ukraine have been trained up by Canadian, British, and American forces to provide them with the equipment to properly defend themselves, such as sniper rifles, anti-tank missiles, anti-ballistic missiles, ways of dealing with mortar attacks, and also blocking radar from Russian sources. Things like proper radio equipment and night vision goggles are needed now. Those things are always needed and are something that we should be supplying without any hesitation. However, the lethal weapons are required for Ukraine to protect their citizens, first and foremost, and to make sure that this war in Donbass does not spread to the rest of Europe.

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9 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Mr. Chair, I will be splitting my time this evening with the member for Edmonton Strathcona.

I am pleased to rise in the debate tonight to support Canada's recent decision to extend Operation Unifier for the next two years. This is a very welcome commitment to the promotion of stability, not just in Ukraine, but in the wider scope of eastern Europe. It is also an important commitment to the preservation of international law in the face of Russian aggression.

Ukraine represents a strategic opportunity for NATO member countries at this time to display a strong and unified front against Russian aggression, both by providing military support to Ukraine and by keeping up the diplomatic pressure on Russia over its role in the occupation of Crimea and its role in eastern Ukraine.

In addition to Canada's military involvement, though, there is an important role for us to play in supporting Ukraine's democratic development. In the former soviet state, if we are to have long-term stability, Canada needs to be a partner in supporting Ukraine's civil society organizations, in helping to build good governance and economic stability, as well as in providing the military training support and non-lethal military aid that we are providing.

The deep corruption in Ukraine is also a threat to its own stability, as much as I would say are the Russian-backed fighters in eastern Ukraine. Therefore, Canada's role in Ukraine must include assistance in addressing this corruption for the long-term positive progress of Ukraine.

In the limited time I have tonight, I do not want to forget to thank the Canadian troops who are doing the training in Ukraine. One of the things we heard in Washington when I was there two weeks ago with the defence committee was the recognition from the Americans that there are two things they can count on from Canadian troops: one is their high skill levels, and two is their professionalism. As much as the training is about skills, I think it is also very important that the professionalism of the Canadian military become an example for those in Ukraine, where too often corruption has played a major role.

In the storm of everyday events around the world, and I suppose I would say the storm of tweets from the U.S. President, it can be too easy to forget that the situation is quite fragile in eastern Ukraine. The United Nations estimates that more than 10,000 civilian deaths have occurred since the beginning of this conflict. Now there is an estimate that 3.8 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance and that 1.7 million of those people have been displaced by this conflict.

We often pay attention, as we should, to the number of displaced and internally displaced people in the Middle East, but we should not at the same time forget that the same situation is of crisis proportions in eastern Ukraine. We understand that the humanitarian situation, as of the end of January, early February, began to deteriorate even faster in the Donetsk region, amid the outbursts of violence and the disruption of the supposed ceasefire. According to UNICEF, at least one million children are now in need of humanitarian assistance. Again, the daily violations of the ceasefires that are taking place put the children's physical safety and psychological well-being at risk as well.

At the same time, we have to remind ourselves that the human rights situation on both sides of this conflict is often not very good. The reports on civilians in detention, both on the Russian side of the line and in Ukraine, are subject to serious human rights abuses. Certainly we have more influence over what happens in Ukraine. This is an example where Canada needs to work with the authorities to better train police, to better train prison officials, and to give them that example of Canadian professionalism that is of such a high standard here in our country. However, we will also have to keep up diplomatic pressure on Ukraine to do better in the human rights and democracy area. There is no better way, no more secure way, to defeat what Russia intends to do in eastern Ukraine than by promoting democracy in Ukraine itself.

The NDP remains concerned by the ongoing Russian-backed violence in Ukraine and the continued violation of ceasefire agreements. That is why we support the training mission, and that is why we support continuing to provide non-lethal military assistance to Ukraine.

We will not go as far as the Conservatives have gone tonight because we have concerns that the trade in small arms remains difficult to police. It is difficult to make sure that arms that get shipped to Ukraine remain in the hands of those they are intended for and do not get—

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NDP

The Deputy Chair NDP Carol Hughes

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Etobicoke Centre.

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Liberal

Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

Madam Chair, I would like to put a question for the hon. member from the NDP. He mentioned incarceration. There are over 20 Ukrainian citizens who have been kidnapped from Ukrainian territory into Russia, and they are currently incarcerated within Russia. It is well documented by international human rights organizations that they have often been severely tortured, and they have undergone show trials in some cases. Considering this, would the NDP support efforts, first, to sanction those individuals who have been involved in the kidnapping, and, second, in the prosecution and show trials of Ukrainian citizens who have been kidnapped from Ukraine and are incarcerated in Russia at this time?

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NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Madam Chair, we have all along argued that sanctions against individuals in Russia who are responsible for human rights abuses should be stepped up and that people we know are involved in both corruption and human rights abuses should be placed on those lists. We have been disappointed that the government has been slow to move on some of those additions to the lists for sanctions. We would, of course, support that at any time. However, it is also true that we have to keep up the pressure on Russia on so many fronts at the same time. If Canada does not play this role, for instance, by leading the mission in Latvia, and does not continue this assistance to Ukraine, Russia would only be emboldened with regard to further territorial ambitions and also further human rights abuses.

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Conservative

James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB

Madam Chair, I want to ask my friend from the NDP from Esquimalt about the experience he has had. Russia is trying to position itself in Ukraine, in eastern Europe. Why does he believe that Vladimir Putin and the regime he has at the Kremlin have been so disruptive in supporting any semblance of democracy, of human rights, of respecting the rule of law? How does the member feel that Canada could do better in addressing those concerns, whether from the standpoint of increasing sanctions or of trying to open dialogue with the rebels themselves? Do we need to continue on this path of supporting Ukraine to ensure that Ukrainians have the ability to, one, defend their sovereignty; two, protect their citizens; and, three, ensure that their rule of law is respected as they try to reform themselves economically through democracy and through their judiciary?

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NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Madam Chair, it is a pretty broad question and tonight's time is very limited. What I would say, as I was trying to conclude in my remarks earlier, is that Canada has a role to play in NATO and all other multilateral organizations that we belong to, in making sure that questions of Russian activity in terms of violation of international law and violations of human rights are raised in all the forums possible, and that we speak with a united voice to Putin and his oligarchs. It will not be tolerated, and there will be consequences for them if they continue down this path. It is through that united voice in institutions like NATO and other multilateral institutions that I think we will have the greatest success in putting up resistance to what the Russian agenda appears to be.

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NDP

Sheila Malcolmson NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Madam Chair, I share my colleague from Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke's concern about instability in the region being exacerbated by the illegal flow of light arms and weapons into the region. I would like to hear his comments about how the Arms Trade Treaty could shed some transparency on the situation, and what the Canadian government's responsibility is in relation to acceding to the Arms Trade Treaty.

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NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Madam Chair, I guess it is up to me to turn that into a question for the government. I believe it was last June when the government promised to accede to the Arms Trade Treaty and promised legislation by last December. We have not see that legislation in the House. I guess I would throw that question to perhaps our next speaker and ask where the government stands on acceding to the small Arms Trade Treaty. It is very important not just to Ukraine, but around the world in preventing the expansion of conflict.