Debates of May 29th, 2017

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, when we announced the defence policy, as we have always done, we also discussed the many methods and opportunities that parliamentarians would be able to take part in once it was announced. We will be ensuring that the feedback we received from Canadians from across the country has been inputted into the defence policy.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Chair, I hear in that response that the minister will not be providing an opportunity for debate either in the House or in committee. Does he deny it?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, on June 7, we will also be announcing the method for parliamentarians to take part in that debate. We have taken a very open and transparent methodology when it comes to the defence policy review with respect of how we put this together, and we will do the same once we announce it.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Chair, does the minister believe it is the prerogative of government to decide how Parliament will weigh in, or does he think it is the right of Parliament to weigh in on defence policy decisions?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, all Canadians, including parliamentarians, have the right to weigh in to ensure the defence policy will set the stage for the Canadian Armed Forces for the next 20 years.

When it comes to defence policy, or any issues in defence, I have made it very clear. I wrote two letters to members of Parliament. His colleague next to him also knows that I made the Department of National Defence open to members of Parliament.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Chair, it stands to reason we cannot weigh in on a policy when we do not know what it is. Until we know what that policy is, then we need to have the opportunity for debate and discussion. That is why I have asked if the minister would bring it either to the House or committee for that discussion.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, we will be presenting, like we have always done, the methodology and how people can weigh in. However, when it comes to the early portions of the defence policy review, I hope the member actually provided the input into it, because we have taken that extremely seriously. We have ensured that their input was taken into account, as well as the input of all Canadians.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Chair, did the minister take that input more seriously than the minister for democratic reform took the input on democratic reform?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, I am very proud of the consultations we have taken across the country. As I said, I hope his input was provided to the department. I will look into ensuring that was done.

I made extreme efforts to ensure accessibility for all parliamentarians, not only for the defence policy review but also to the Canadian Armed Forces, to allow members of Parliament to be able to understand the military more. The decision for members of Parliament to even go to bases rests with the commanding officers and the base commanders, including an engagement plan in which I know many members have taken part.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Chair, I recently had the honour of accompanying the men and women who crew the HMCS Vancouver on the west coast. I got a little window into their operations, how they ran the ship, and how they conducted operations while at sea. Upon my return I was interested in the issue of the equipment they needed to do their job well.

Recent announcements about the Canadian surface combatant program say that the submission deadline for applications for the naval warship design phase has been backed up, but we do not know up to what date. Could the minister provide us with the date those applications will close?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, the Canadian surface combatant is an extremely large project. When it comes to ensuring we go through the right process, there was a request by different companies to have more time. We need to ensure we get this right. We do not want to rush the process. There has been a small delay on this, and the Minister of Public Services and Procurement will deal with this issue directly.

We, as the Department of National Defence, deal with the requirements, but we want to ensure the whole national defence strategy, including the combatants, moves along as fast as possible. However, at the same time, we need to ensure the process goes right so we actually have the necessary and right equipment at the end of it as well.

[Karen McCrimmon, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport]

Mr. Chair, I will be speaking for 10 minutes and then I will follow with questions.

I am very pleased to have this opportunity to speak about the Communications Security Establishment, known as CSE, one of Canada's critical security and intelligence organizations within the national defence portfolio. With estimates of $599 million for the last fiscal year and approximately 2,300 highly-skilled staff, the contribution CSE provides to the security, stability, and prosperity of the country cannot be underestimated.

While it is not a household name, CSE has a long and proud history. Indeed, over the course of the year, CSE has been celebrating its 70th anniversary.

CSE’s mission is derived from the authorities enshrined within its three-part mandate in the National Defence Act. First, CSE is Canada’s national signals intelligence agency. It serves the national interest by providing foreign intelligence in accordance with the government’s intelligence priorities.

I want to emphasize that what CSE does is foreign intelligence. By law, it cannot direct its activities at Canadians or anyone in Canada. In terms of results, CSE's intelligence helps to uncover foreign-based extremists' efforts to attract, radicalize, and train individuals to carry out attacks in Canada and around the world. CSE's foreign intelligence informs Canada's government decision-making in the fields of national security, defence, and international affairs.

The second part of CSE’s mandate is cyber defence and protection. CSE provides advice, guidance and services to help ensure the protection of electronic information and information infrastructure of importance to the Government of Canada.

CSE's sophisticated cyber and technical expertise helps identify, prepare for, and respond to the most severe cyber threats and attacks against computer networks and systems, and the important information they contain. It helps to protect Government of Canada systems from foreign states, hackers, terrorists, and criminals. It tracks cyber threats from around the world and it works with government departments to defend and strengthen systems that have been compromised. Finally, CSE helps protect sensitive information held by the government, including the personal information of Canadians, from theft.

The third part of CSE’s mandate is to provide technical and operational assistance to federal law enforcement and security agencies in the performance of their lawful duties. Under the assistance mandate, those capabilities may be used to assist a Canadian law enforcement or security agency, under the requesting agency’s legal authority.

The principles of lawfulness and privacy are critical to the work of CSE. As they work to protect Canadians against threats, CSE knows that they have a responsibility to protect privacy and they take that responsibility very seriously. Protecting Canadian privacy is not an afterthought. It is a fundamental part of the organizational culture and is embedded within CSE's operational structures, policies, and processes.

Security and intelligence agencies have capabilities and powers bestowed upon them in order to maintain the security of our country. They also have the important responsibility to protect Canadians' rights and freedoms. In order to uphold the trust and confidence that Canadians have in their government and in their security and intelligence agencies and departments, this government has introduced legislation to establish the national security and intelligence committee of parliamentarians. The creation of this committee is part of our demonstrated commitment to openness and transparency. CSE will support and fully co-operate with this committee in its important work.

In today's dynamic security environment, CSE's efforts to protect Canada and Canadians against threats are more critical than ever. We were all sadly reminded of these threats just last week, when people simply enjoying a concert, many of them children and teenagers, were tragically killed in a horrible attack in Manchester, England.

CSE is working to help its allied partners to gain further insight into this act of terror, and to help prevent future similar acts. The threats are not limited to terrorism. Across this country, and indeed around the world, governments and citizens are relying on continuously evolving technology to communicate, to work, and to live.

We expect to be able to interact with our government in the digital world and we want to access government services online. In the face of the cyber revolution, CSE is focused on improving the government's cyber defences by building specialized cyber tools and developing resilience within our systems. We are better positioned to resist and protect ourselves against cyber threats than ever before. However, as new and sophisticated communications technologies emerge, we face the challenges of an interconnected world.

Just two weeks ago, we saw the impact of a ransomware attack that took critical services offline around the world. This is the world in which CSE works diligently to protect Canada. In responding to this threat, CSE has proven itself to be an innovative leader and a trusted partner.

Because of its sophisticated understanding of the cyberworld, CSE was asked by the Minister of Democratic Institutions to assess the cyber threats that face Canada's democratic processes and to provide advice about best cyber practices to all political parties in the House. Trust in our democratic processes is essential for our democracy to work. Our democratic processes and the ways in which we choose our politicians are an attractive target for nation states and non-state actors seeking to influence our country. We asked CSE to provide this assessment in a publicly available format and we expect to deliver that report in the coming weeks.

CSE has, throughout its 70-year history, served this country proudly while adapting to enormous changes in technology and how people use it in the international security environment and the threat landscape. Today, cyber is clearly a part of that threat landscape. In responding to this threat, CSE has proven itself to be an innovative leader and a trusted partner.

In the past year, CSE has also taken several unprecedented steps to be more open and transparent about its work for the country, telling Canadians more about the work it does to protect their security, their personal information, their privacy, and their rights and freedoms

It has posted new content on its website about CSE's critical cyber defence work and launched an advertising campaign to recruit the next generation of cyber and intelligence experts. CSE is embracing an open approach to communicating with Canadians about the important work it does. While CSE continues to play an invaluable role in Canada's security, it is ready to support the important government initiatives on the national security, cybersecurity, and defence policy review fronts. The breadth and depth of knowledge and skill that CSE brings to the security and intelligence table is highly regarded and unique within government. As Canada's and Canadians' reliance upon connected technology increases, so too will the need for CSE.

I will now ask the parliamentary secretary some questions.

We know that CSE provides foreign intelligence to a number of government departments and agencies to keep Canada and Canadians safe and that CSE also works with other government departments to ensure that government communications are secure. To fulfill this mission, CSE has unique capabilities and powers, which it uses in accordance with its authorities. At the same time, Canadians value their privacy and expect security and intelligence agencies to protect it. Canadian law includes clear measures to protect the privacy of Canadians.

What are CSE's accountability measures and how does the organization ensure that the privacy of Canadians is protected while CSE carries out its mandated activities?

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, CSE is prohibited by law from directing its activities at Canadians or anyone in Canada. It is vital that the privacy of Canadians be protected, and CSE takes that responsibility seriously.

CSE has a strong privacy framework in place, and its activities are governed by the applicable laws, ministerial directives, ministerial authorizations, and policies. To ensure CSE employees fully understand and respect their obligations to protect the privacy of Canadians and people in Canada, CSE regularly trains, tests, and verifies their knowledge and compliance with those policies.

CSE activities are subject to external, independent review conducted by the CSE commissioner. The commissioner’s reviews determine whether CSE’s activities are compliant with Canadian laws, including verifying that CSE is not directing its activities at Canadians or anyone in Canada.

[Karen McCrimmon, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Chair, I mentioned in my speech that Canada's democratic processes and the ways in which Canada chooses our politicians are attractive targets for nation-states and non-state actors seeking to influence us.

Recently, we have seen evidence of election campaign hacking, from targeted hacks against the U.S. Democratic National Committee to attempted hacks against a French presidential candidate. These hackings raise serious questions about the threat of foreign interference and the integrity of election systems.

Can the parliamentary secretary tell me, given the risk of similar hacks in Canada, what measures is CSE taking to defend the Canadian electoral process from cyber threats?

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport asked a very interesting question. Recent high-profile attacks against election campaigns have threatened democracy by undermining public trust in the democratic process.

CSE helps the Minister of Democratic Institutions, who leads the government's efforts to defend the Canadian electoral process from cyber threats.

For example, CSE analyzes the risks to Canada’s political and electoral activities from hackers in order to offer advice to Canada’s political parties and Elections Canada on best practices when it comes to cyber security.

CSE is Canada’s centre for cyber excellence. It has internationally recognized cyber and technical expertise, which enables it to respond to threats and attacks against government networks and systems.

[Karen McCrimmon, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Chair, I mentioned that CSE helps protect the Canadian Armed Forces in their international operations. I wonder if the parliamentary secretary could describe the spending in the main estimates for 2017-18.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, CSE possesses unique technological capabilities and expertise, which it uses to support the government's intelligence requirements, including those associated with Canadian Armed Forces missions abroad as part of CSE's foreign signals intelligence mandate. CSE has helped identify threats to Canada, protected the lives of Canadian Armed Forces members serving abroad, and ensured that senior government decision-makers have access to the best available information.

Here is an example. CSE has helped protect our forces from threats on the ground. Intelligence is an important aspect of this mission, and CSE is contributing to this initiative. The 2017-18 budget includes an increase of $13.7 million to support this mandate.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say good evening to the minister and thank him for being here with us.

I will be asking questions in quick succession, and I would like the answers to follow suit. It will all be fine. It will last 15 minutes, and then it will all be over.

What does the minister think of the Davie shipyard's new administration since 2013? Also, is he confident that the Asterix supply ship for Project Resolve will be ready in time?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, the Davie shipyard is working on our interim auxiliary ship. It has been doing great work, and we are hoping that it provides the necessary equipment for our navy, on time and on budget.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, the minister says they are doing great work. Does that mean he has a good opinion of the administration of the Davie shipyard?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, I was briefed that the work is progressing well. I have not visited the shipyard. I have not had the opportunity. I would like to. I look forward to assisting the work, because the capability they are providing is necessary for our navy.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, I understand the lack of capacity, even if I do not believe him. The minister cannot tell us exactly who told him about the lack of capacity for official reasons and strategic reasons, etc. What I would like to know is whether it was an employee of his political cabinet who told him about the lack of capacity, or was it the DND staff, who are not political?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, I am assuming that we are talking about the lack of capacity for the navy ships. In this case, we do not have joint supply ships. This gap has turned into a loss. Right now, we are relying on other navies to supply our ships.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, I made a mistake. I was talking about the lack of capacity with regard to fighter jets in our actual air fleet. I should have clarified that point.

I will ask my question again. Exactly when was the minister informed of the lack of capacity in the air fleet and who informed him? Was it an employee of his political cabinet or a DND staff member?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, when it comes to the NORAD commitments and our NATO commitments, the chain of command has provided this information. We need to be able to make decisions for the commitments we have based on the right data, and that is what we talked about. We cannot meet our NORAD and NATO commitments simultaneously based on the number of aircraft that we have.