House of Commons Hansard #182 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chair.

Topics

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:40 p.m.

Liberal

Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Chair, as the previous Chair requested, I will be speaking for about eight to 10 minutes and then I will have a handful of questions for the minister afterward.

I am pleased to take part in this important debate surrounding the main estimates for the Department of National Defence. I want to thank the minister and the members of his team for being here for this grilling this evening.

While Canadians are blessed to live in a country that has not seen war within its borders since the 19th century, this does not make us immune from the repercussions of unrest elsewhere in the world, nor from emerging threats like global terrorism and cybercrime, nor natural disaster and severe weather effects, which are aggravated by climate change.

We have heard today how the Canadian Armed Forces and the Department of National Defence defend Canadians against these threats at home and abroad. When we have needed our women and men in uniform, they have answered the call time and time again, with the professionalism and expertise Canadians have come to expect of them. These are skills acquired through years of training and experience.

To accomplish their missions, our military members must be properly equipped. This is not a political issue; it is an operational imperative. As parliamentarians, we must ensure we provide them with the funding necessary to acquire the equipment they need and deserve.

There are challenges, however, the first of which is cost. We can all agree on the concept of a well-equipped military, but this must be carefully balanced against our responsibility to Canadian taxpayers to obtain value for money. We are not alone in this challenge. All around the world, our military allies and partners need to be strategic in their investments and limit costs and risk where they can.

Military equipment is built to specific standards. It is designed to be effective and durable, to remain in service for decades, to respond to and withstand emerging threats in a variety of environments. Much of this cost and risk is unavoidable, but it can be managed somewhat by planning for multi-purpose capabilities.

For instance, the new tactical armoured patrol vehicles, which the Canadian army first received in August 2016, was acquired to fulfill a variety of roles on the battlefield from troop protection, to reconnaissance and surveillance, armoured transport, and much more. This vehicle was deployed domestically for the first time earlier this month during the military response to the floods in Quebec. It proved to be of critical use as it was one of the only vehicles in all of the federal, provincial, and municipal fleets that could provide ground transportation in the flooded areas.

This flexible approach guides all aspects of the military's capability planning and it is particularly relevant for equipment.

This is just one example of sound procurement in action. The Department of National Defence manages more than 10,000 contracts per year, with a total value of nearly $6 billion. This includes everything from vehicles, weapons, and satellite systems to the purchase of items such as clothing and combat boots, rations, and ammunition.

National defence must also plan contracts for equipment maintenance and training as well as storage of equipment, all of which are required to maintain a capacity that is ready to quickly respond to operational needs.

There are challenges to the procurement process. That is undeniable. As we debate these issues and work to strengthen the procurement system, it is important to note that the vast majority of procurement projects are delivered on time and on budget.

The 2017-18 main estimates contain requests for funding for several critical projects for our armed forces, and I will list a few.

First are $189 million to continue the modernization of our Halifax-class frigates. This project is less than two years from completion and is both on time and under budget. It includes new radar capability, a new electronic warfare system, upgraded communications technologies, combat management systems, and more advanced missiles. These upgrades and several others will maintain our frigates as the backbone of the Royal Canadian Navy until the Canadian surface combatants are built.

The estimates also call for $156 million to upgrade the army's light armoured vehicles to provide them with improved mobility, protection, and ergonomics. Already, 409 of these vehicles have received upgrades, and this past February, we announced a multi-year, $404 million contract to upgrade yet another 141. This contract, which was awarded to General Dynamics, will extend the lifespan of the LAV to 2035 and sustain well-paying Canadian jobs.

To support the Royal Canadian Air Force in its missions, funding in these estimates will maintain and sustain many of our military aircraft, most notably the CF-18 fighter, the legacy Hercules, and the CP-140 Auroras, which continue to do outstanding work patrolling littoral approaches and provide valuable information to the coalition against Daesh in support of our operations in Iraq. This also includes the acquisition of 16 fixed-wing search and rescue aircraft to replace the legacy Buffalo and Hercules fleets, which was a major procurement success following many years of delay.

Moving beyond the current year and into the future, progress is being made on several major procurement projects.

First, we will undertake an open and transparent competition to replace the CF-18 fighter fleet, as Canada requires an advanced fighter capability to enforce our sovereignty, provide continental security, and contribute to international peace and stability. We are also exploring an interim acquisition of fighters in order to manage our commitments to both NORAD and NATO.

I can also report, being from the east coast, that real progress is being made with the shipbuilding strategy. Work has begun on the second Arctic offshore patrol vessel, which will be known as HMCS Margaret Brooke, and the project remains on schedule. A contract will be issued later this year for the design of the Canadian surface combatant, which will become the mainstay of the Royal Canadian Navy's future fleet.

These are significant developments, and we have already taken steps to ensure that funding is available to support these large-scale capital projects for defence by reallocating $8.48 billion of funding from the period of 2015-16 to 2035-36 to future years. This is done to ensure that funding is available when it is needed. Indeed the total funding available to National Defence for large-scale projects is $83 billion over the next 30 years.

As we have heard many times tonight, when the new defence policy is unveiled on June 7, I am confident it will contain further measures to improve our procurement process, measures that will be fully and adequately funded in the years to come.

Our women and men in uniform are a source of national pride for Canadians. I know that everyone in this room supports the members of the Canadian Armed Forces because we know they will answer the call, just as they always have. To ensure they can accomplish their assigned missions, we must ensure stable and predictable funding for the Department of National Defence. That is our role as parliamentarians. We must also strive to continually improve our procurement systems, ensuring that military acquisitions provide value to Canadians by being fiscally responsible, while investing in the Canadian industrial base.

I have a handful of questions for the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence.

In the minister's speech, he mentioned the challenges related to the procurement process and our responsibility to Canadian taxpayers. All members in the House can agree that we want to see the Canadian Armed Forces acquire new equipment, vehicles, ships, planes, as quickly as possible.

Could the parliamentary secretary please explain to the House what the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces are doing to improve the procurement process and to address the challenges I have outlined?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Liberal

Jean Rioux Liberal Saint-Jean, QC

Mr. Chair, providing the Canadian Armed Forces with the equipment they need is a priority for our government, one that we are proud to be working hard on.

To that end, we are taking action to make improvements to defence procurement, including hiring additional people to increase procurement capability and increasing the department's authorities to contract to up to $5 million to allow Public Services and Procurement Canada to focus on higher value, complex procurements.

This delegation represents over 90% of the number of DND contracts. We are also streamlining internal departmental approval processes to reduce approval times by 50% for less complex procurements. We continue to look at ways to improve defence procurement to better equip the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Liberal

Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Chair, the minister also referred to the tactical armoured patrol vehicle in regard to the floods in Quebec. It appears to be a great addition to the Canadian army's fleet of vehicles.

Could the parliamentary secretary confirm if this was the first time they had been used by our forces in an operation? Could he possibly elaborate a little more on this new Canadian Armed Forces equipment?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Liberal

Jean Rioux Liberal Saint-Jean, QC

Mr. Chair, my colleague is correct. Tactical armoured patrol vehicles were effectively used to respond to flooding in Quebec in May 2017 as part of Operation Lentus.

Tactical armoured patrol vehicles are a general utility combat vehicle that can fulfill a variety of roles on the battlefield, such as reconnaissance and surveillance, command and control, and transport. After extensive testing, the Canadian army started taking delivery of the vehicles in August 2016. Feedback from equipment users has been very positive.

Tactical armoured patrol vehicles will help to ensure that the army is well equipped and properly sustained to carry out its missions.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:55 p.m.

Liberal

Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Chair, the minister also spoke about some of the current procurement projects of the Royal Canadian Navy, like the Halifax-class frigates modernization, the Canadian surface combatant, and the Arctic offshore patrol ships.

Could the parliamentary secretary please provide some details about the most recent developments on the acquisition of the Royal Canadian Navy's new ships under the national shipbuilding strategy?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:55 p.m.

Liberal

Jean Rioux Liberal Saint-Jean, QC

Mr. Chair, I can see that my colleague from the Maritimes is very interested in this issue.

The Royal Canadian Navy is in the midst of its most intensive and comprehensive fleet modernization and renewal efforts in its peacetime history. The national shipbuilding strategy represents a substantial investment that aims to renew the federal fleets and to rejuvenate our marine industry, support Canadian technological innovation, and bring jobs and prosperity to many communities across the nation.

As a part of the strategy, we are acquiring up to 15 Canadian surface combatants, two joint support ships with an option for a third, and up to six Arctic and offshore patrol ships. The new ships will ensure the navy can continue to monitor and defend Canadian waters, including in the Arctic, and make significant contributions to international operations.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:55 p.m.

Liberal

Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Chair, the minister also spoke of several procurement projects for the Canadian army and the Royal Canadian Navy. Other than the CF-18 replacement project, he briefly touched on the Royal Canadian Air Force's other procurement projects, such as modernization efforts on some aircraft fleets, as well as some new aircraft.

Could the parliamentary secretary or the Minister of National Defence please provide some detail or provide an update on our other aircraft fleets?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:55 p.m.

Liberal

Jean Rioux Liberal Saint-Jean, QC

Mr. Chair, the Royal Canadian Air Force is acquiring new assets and exploiting existing capabilities to deliver its mandate.

First, the government is acquiring 16 Airbus C-295s to replace Canada’s legacy Hercules and Buffalo fixed-wing search and rescue aircraft. The acquisition of the Cyclone maritime helicopter is also a priority for the Canadian Armed Forces, and that process remains on track and within its allocation.

Finally, the government is moving forward with the modernization and the life-extension of its CP-140 Aurora strategic long-range surveillance aircraft.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:55 p.m.

Liberal

Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Chair, the defence of our sovereignty in the Arctic was spoken of earlier in a previous speech.

The Minister of National Defence briefly mentioned the construction of the second Arctic offshore patrol ship, the Margaret Brooke. Could the minister please update the House on the current status of the Arctic offshore patrol ship procurement project and how these ships will be used when they begin service in the Canadian Armed Forces?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:55 p.m.

Liberal

Jean Rioux Liberal Saint-Jean, QC

Mr. Chair, as part of the national shipbuilding strategy, we are acquiring up to six Arctic and offshore patrol ships, designated the Harry DeWolf class in honour of Vice-Admiral Harry DeWolf, the legendary destroyer commander who was Canada’s most highly decorated naval officer during the Second World War.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:55 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Chair, this evening I would first like to focus on some issues around the ombudsman's office.

He has been put forward a case for a permanent and independent ombudsman's office and a recommendation that the Minister of National Defence support the enactment of legislation aimed at giving the office of the defence ombudsman organizational permanence and independence from the Department of National Defence with respect to all functional authorities. Could the minister please respond as to whether or not he is in favour of this recommendation?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the ombudsman for his work. I am committed to maintaining a positive and productive working relationship with the ombudsman, and I have encouraged him to come to me should he face any issues carrying out his mandate.

The administrative arrangement between the ombudsman and the department mirrors similar offices across government and meets the test of proper stewardship of resources. This arrangement also respects the findings of the Auditor General in 2015, who recognized the need for better oversight by the department. It does not affect the ombudsman's ability to conduct independent investigations that benefit the defence team.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Chair, in simplifying the service delivery model for medically releasing members of the Canadian Armed Forces, this closing of the seam between the Canadian Armed Forces and VAC is so crucial to supplying the needs of our serving members. It is recommended through the ombudsman's report that the Canadian Armed Forces retain medically releasing members until such time as all of the benefits and services from the Canadian Armed Forces, Veterans Affairs Canada, and the Service Income Security Insurance Plan have been confirmed and put in place.

This would relieve so much of the tension that our veterans face as they are moving away from their service. Can the minister affirm that he supports this recommendation from the ombudsman, yes or no?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, I support the recommendation of the ombudsman. Closing the seam is extremely important in making sure that any time members are released, they have all of the benefits in place before their release, as well as their medical records, so that veterans do not have to resubmit the reasons they were injured. These are the types of things that we need to make sure are done well, as I said earlier. The Minister of Veterans Affairs and I are working closely on this issue.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Chair, the Australian Department of Veterans' Affairs recognizes that anxiety, depressive disorders, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and attempted and completed suicides are scientifically linked to mefloquine. Is the minister prepared to do our part, alongside our allies, in dealing with this issue?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, the health and well-being of our Canadian Armed Forces members are paramount, and malaria is a potentially life-threatening infectious disease to which our troops could be exposed in the performance of their duties. A military member's decision on malaria prevention is made in close consultation with his or her health care provider. Mefloquine currently remains as one of the medications approved by Health Canada and recommended by the Public Health Agency of Canada that is available to military personnel to prevent malaria. The use of mefloquine is now the exception and not the trend of recent years. The use of mefloquine by the Canadian Armed Forces is in the final stages of being reviewed, and the decision on this matter is expected in the near future.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Chair, in light of the tremendous growth in worldwide research on the effects of mefloquine and new policies being developed by our trusted allies, what funding has our own government set aside in this budget to address the concerns of our own servicemen and servicewomen about their exposure to this drug?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, as I stated, the surgeon general is currently reviewing the use of mefloquine. The CDS is also seized of this issue. I look forward to hearing the results of their findings.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Chair, we need to know that the government is prepared to set up a Canadian outreach program for veterans exposed to mefloquine. What they want to see is independent research by physicians and scientists to better study the drug's side effects and treatments.

Can the minister recommend and encourage independent studies of this issue?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, I need to have the findings from our surgeon general. Once we have those findings, a further determination can be made on the next steps. However, I want to show our trust in the chain of command, the chief of the defence staff, and our surgeon general in allowing them to do their work, and I look forward to their findings.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Chair, all over the world our allies are already far ahead of us on this issue. The Australian Department of Veterans' Affairs has established a dedicated mefloquine support team to assist the military community with mefloquine claims and to provide them with a special point of contact.

Why has this minister not prioritized funding to address the exact same issue here?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, our surgeon general has the necessary resources to define this. Our surgeon general has been placed in a position of trust. I am sure that the surgeon general is doing the type of work that is needed. We need to make sure that we show trust so they can present their results. Once we have those results, we will make a determination on the next step. We need to make sure that our men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces have all the necessary and proper medication.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Chair, we are all very aware that there are other options to treat malaria that do not have the extreme adverse side effects of mefloquine. Our allies, Australia, Britain, the U.S., and Germany, have all responded positively to the cries of their veterans regarding the severe impact mefloquine is having on their lives.

As Canada prides itself on being a world leader, what resources are we setting aside to follow suit?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, certainly a determination can be made. There are other options when it comes to medications. Malarone is another example. Mefloquine is one. I do not know the exact results or the number of people who actually take it.

We need to make sure that those options are there, but we need to make sure that the surgeon general has the appropriate time to do the evidence-based work he is there for. We take the responsibility for health care extremely seriously.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Chair, when will the Department of National Defence and Veterans Affairs acknowledge what Health Canada has quietly indicated, that the mefloquine drug can have disabling and lasting psychiatric effects and that a significant number of veterans may be suffering from these effects.

What funding has the minister set aside to address this recent acknowledgement by Health Canada?