House of Commons Hansard #253 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was packaging.

Topics

Department of Employment and Social Development ActPrivate Members' Business

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Department of Employment and Social Development ActPrivate Members' Business

6:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Department of Employment and Social Development ActPrivate Members' Business

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

All those opposed will please say nay.

Department of Employment and Social Development ActPrivate Members' Business

6:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Department of Employment and Social Development ActPrivate Members' Business

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

In my opinion the nays have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Pursuant to Standing Order 93, the recorded division stands deferred until Wednesday, January 31, 2018, that is tomorrow, immediately before the time provided for private members' business.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

Indigenous AffairsAdjournment Proceedings

6:20 p.m.

NDP

Sheila Malcolmson NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Mr. Speaker, last month I had the opportunity to ask the Prime Minister directly why he is excluding the Native Women's Association of Canada from his government's provincial-territorial meetings, and he said, “That is simply not true.” However, in December 2016, the Native Women's Association of Canada and the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples were left out of a meeting with the Prime Minister advancing reconciliation.

On this conversation about reconciliation, there was not a single indigenous woman at the table. In the press conference after the meeting, the Prime Minister confirmed that their exclusion was deliberate. He said, “My answer is that we always have to make choices about who to include in different venues and at different points.” He later told the National Observer that “in any given meeting we have to make choices and we made those choices.” He has chosen again and again, despite the Prime Minister's commitment to a true nation-to-nation relationship and despite his commitment to feminism, to exclude the Native Women's Association. They were excluded from the first ministers meetings in October 2017, December 2016, March 2016, and again not invited to participate in the reconciliation meeting I just cited, in December 2016.

I would like to know from the representative of the Prime Minister what his evidence is that he has been inviting the Native Women's Association of Canada to these high-level meetings, these reconciliation meetings, these first ministers meetings, because he told me that I am saying something that is not true. “That is simply not true” is what he said to me.

The Prime Minister really is in bad company on this. The mandate letter he gave to the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs indicated the government is committed to continue to develop and lead a whole-of-government strategy to include indigenous representatives in meaningful ways in Canada's federal-provincial-territorial dialogues. I will submit that if the Prime Minister continues to leave out indigenous women from these conversations, he is not fulfilling his commitment.

The United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women indicated its concern that indigenous women's organizations are not included in Canada's countrywide nation-to-nation relationship on equal footing with other indigenous people's organizations. That report is more than a year old, and it still is not being honoured. UN CEDAW recommended that Canada ensure indigenous women's organizations are included in the countrywide nation-to-nation relationship in all cases in which issues of relevance to women apply.

The United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples asks the government to commit to article 18, in which indigenous people “have the right to participate in decision-making in matters which would affect their rights, through representatives chosen by themselves in accordance with their own procedures”. The Liberal government says it is going to agree to my colleague from Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou's bill, but its actions do not line up with its words.

I would like to hear from the government's representative why it is continuing to shut out NWAC.

Indigenous AffairsAdjournment Proceedings

6:25 p.m.

Labrador Newfoundland & Labrador

Liberal

Yvonne Jones LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to answer the question been posed by the hon. member for Nanaimo—Ladysmith. I acknowledge as well that I stand here this evening on the traditional territory of the Algonquin people, a very proud people.

The Government of Canada is committed to a renewed relationship with indigenous people based on the recognition of rights, respect, co-operation, and partnership.

For over 40 years, the Native Women's Association of Canada has played a vital role in empowering indigenous women and girls, and it continues to do so today. Its goal is to enhance, promote, and foster a greater social, cultural, and economic well-being for indigenous women from coast to coast to coast.

The Government of Canada has created permanent bilateral mechanisms with the Assembly of First Nations, the first nations, the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami, the four Inuit Nunangat regions, and the Métis National Council and its governing members to identify joint priorities, co-develop policies, and monitor progress. This does not mean that NWAC does not have a voice or is being excluded. Nor does it mean that others in our indigenous communities do not have a voice. The Government of Canada has committed to working and meeting regularly with the national indigenous organizations. We are the first to do this, and we will continue to engage in a robust bilateral discussion with all five on issues of importance to their members.

Our government has shown, through our actions and our continual engagement with the Native Women's Association of Canada over the course of the past year, the importance that we have placed on this organization's contribution and perspective. We recognize the critical role NWAC plays in furthering the journey of reconciliation, and we look forward to walking this path together.

True reconciliation cannot be achieved without the full inclusion of all indigenous people. Canada remains committed to including the distinct perspectives of indigenous women in all programs, policies, and all legislation. Canada will continue to work with indigenous women's organizations and other indigenous groups across the country to ensure that all voices, those of our youth, of our elders, and of our women, are all heard. When indigenous women and girls thrive, our nation is stronger and benefits from the talent and knowledge they contribute. Our government knows this and remains committed to working with the Native Women's Association of Canada, its strong leadership and board, and other indigenous women's organizations across Canada.

I thank the member today for posing the statement, as it gives us an opportunity to reinforce our commitment to consulting and working with indigenous women in Canada, especially NWAC, and also for the opportunity to point out that we are the first government to establish bilateral tables with the leading government bodies for first nations, Inuit, and Métis in Canada.

Indigenous AffairsAdjournment Proceedings

6:30 p.m.

NDP

Sheila Malcolmson NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Mr. Speaker, the member has continued to state the government's commitment, but has failed to explain why its actions do not align with those statements.

Last year, at the United Nations' May session to celebrate UNDRIP, NWAC, the Native Women's Association of Canada, asked to be included. It was not. It was barred from the delegation. It could not even attend the side events.

Last year in December, a president of NWAC, Francyne Joe, said, “[The Prime Minister]...states he’s a feminist, he states indigenous relations are high priorities for his government, and yet he’s specifically excluding a national indigenous group that has been recognized by the courts. Why?”

The Prime Minister has not answered my letter on this. Again, why is the government shutting the Native Women's Association out of its highest level government meetings?

Indigenous AffairsAdjournment Proceedings

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Yvonne Jones Liberal Labrador, NL

First, Mr. Speaker, the Government of Canada has created bilateral tables with lead indigenous governments in Canada, being the Assembly of First Nations, ITK, and the Métis National Council. They are the lead umbrella organizations for their governments, for Inuit, Métis, and first nations people in Canada.

We recognize the Native Women's Association of Canada plays an invaluable role as an advocate for indigenous women. That is why the Government of Canada seeks to not only acknowledge NWAC as a valued partner but also recognize NWAC's vision, support, and guidance to so many indigenous women in Canada. We look to NWAC as a partner in leading the empowerment of indigenous women in all aspects of Canadian society.

Moving forward, the Government of Canada will continue to work in partnership with NWAC and other indigenous organizations to ensure that all indigenous voices are heard, including those of women. Together, we can create positive change and ensure that indigenous women are treated with the same respect as all other women in Canada, the respect they deserve, as well as being given the opportunity to provide input to the Government of Canada.

Air TransportationAdjournment Proceedings

6:30 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise again on an issue that is very important for Canadian consumers and travellers, which is the call for an airline passenger bill of rights. I asked this question, and the right hon. Prime Minister answered it, basically saying he was proud of the work of the Minister of Transport. Unfortunately, there is not much work to talk about with regard to an airline passenger bills of rights because it was lumped together with three other bills in the House of Commons as part of a general package. Worse than that is the fact that there are no specifics in the passenger rights bill being presented. I know the Prime Minister may not have to worry about these things because he flies in the government's plane, the Aga Khan's plane, or those of other friends and acquaintances, but the reality is that most of us who travel as general passengers face a number of obstacles, for which we want and expect a set of rules.

Europe has a robust system that is understandable, and the United States has a system that is understandable, and most important, there is clear language that defines what takes place. The government has passed a bill that does not talk about the specifics of the rules of the game with regard to cancellations, which could be due to delays related to mechanical difficulties or rerouting or could be caused for appropriate reasons, such as bad weather. There are a number of issues with regard to remuneration for meals and accommodations. All people want is to know what their rights are and to have a say.

Europe has a very specific way of doing this. The same is true with the United States. There are issues of delay and tarmac rights. There has been a series of unfortunate incidents on airplanes not only in Canada but internationally that got a great deal of attention in the media. Hearings have taken place in the United States to protect consumers. In the U.S. there have been very overt and public cases where people have been dragged off of planes and injured, whereas in Canada there have been a number of situations where passengers have languished for hours, with feces in the aisle because people are not allowed to go to the washroom or the washroom has not been emptied. The rerouted plane has to sit in a holding pattern, with people having very few rights. In fact, people have resorted to calling 911 just to get water or some sort of attention.

The minister in this case has tabled a bill in which he is leaving this all to regulations and back-door lobbying by the airline industry. There was no attempt in the legislation to specifically identify what the parameters or compensation would be or have at least a participatory element for the public and for Parliament. Quite frankly, it is a way of not doing the job.

Similarly, the Minister of Transport has taken a hands-off approach with regard to auto recall. We will see that in Bill S-2 when it is next debated. Even today in the House, when members asked for leadership with regard to environmental property of which the minister is the custodian, he basically passed the buck again. He is not interested in the details, in sharing information, or in setting standards.

The Prime Minister answered this question saying he was proud of the work, but there has not been any work. In fact, leaving the decisions for bureaucrats in back rooms and through back doors to be lobbied by the industry and others is not a way for democracy to run. All the minister has to do is try.

Air TransportationAdjournment Proceedings

6:35 p.m.

Kanata—Carleton Ontario

Liberal

Karen McCrimmon LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to provide an update to the hon. member and to the House on the status of Bill C-49 and our efforts to create and implement a world-leading air passenger rights regime in Canada for Canadians.

When Canadians purchase a plane ticket, they expect the airline to meet its end of the deal and treat them with respect, fairness, and consistency. That is why our government has introduced legislation for the establishment of new regulations to strengthen Canada's air passenger rights. The Minister of Transport has even challenged airlines to immediately respect the clear intent of this legislation so we can finally move toward greater passenger rights.

The Senate Standing Committee on Transport and Communications is currently reviewing Bill C-49, and we look forward to hearing the views of the Senate on this proposed legislation.

It is important to note that, should the bill receive royal assent, it would be the Canadian Transportation Agency, in coordination with Transport Canada, that would begin to develop the air passenger rights regulations, not the airlines, as suggested by the hon. member.

Some concern has been expressed about having the proposed air passenger rights regime enshrined in regulations, as opposed to legislation. Let me address those concerns.

The existence of these rights in the regulations would not diminish their power. Air passenger rights would cover a number of issues, including denied boarding and tarmac delays, and would establish clear standards of treatment and levels of compensation in some instances, with specific penalties against air carriers that do not comply.

Utilizing the regulatory process for air passenger rights would ensure that Canadians and industry stakeholders have a voice at the table during the development process. We have always said that the most important voice in this process is that of the Canadian public, and the regulatory process would ensure that this voice is heard and that a balanced and effective air passenger rights regime is developed.

As well, the regulatory process would make it easier to make future changes and modifications, as opposed to the time-consuming process of changing legislation. Other jurisdictions, such as the United States and the European Union, have also taken the regulatory approach for these very same reasons.

As Bill C-49 continues to move forward in the other place, we will continue to listen to Canadians as we work to develop a world-leading air passenger rights regime that will be the envy of travellers throughout the world.

Air TransportationAdjournment Proceedings

6:40 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Mr. Speaker, the rebuttal for that is quite easy. The legislation has passed and is now in the Senate, and then we will wait for the Canadian Transportation Agency and other bureaucrats to come back at some future date to protect Canadians. It is just a joke.

The reality is that there could be thresholds and minimum and maximum penalties. That is often done in regulations. It is often done in legislation. It is a very common practice. To suggest otherwise is fraudulent and is also a distraction from the actual issue here, which is that the government is not doing the work necessary to protect airline passengers. It could simply pass that in legislation. Having those thresholds and targets would at least provide parameters. They can also be easily changed in this chamber if the government actually wants to do the work.

This is a pattern of behaviour coming out of the Department of Transport, the minister, and the parliamentary secretary, where they do not want to do the hard work necessary to protect people and to be accountable, leaving it to the Senate and whatever the senators are going to do with it. If they change it, it comes back here; if they do not change it, it is basically a toothless tiger.

It is actually going to be brought forward by clandestine meetings by the industry, which will meet with the agency. We know that the agency has a history of not following through with complaints, or with investigations that have had many people complaining about them in the first place.

We need to take this seriously, and that requires the action of parliamentarians. That is what we were elected to do. That is what people expect. That is what we should be doing right here, right now.

Air TransportationAdjournment Proceedings

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

Karen McCrimmon Liberal Kanata—Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-49 is presently before the Senate Standing Committee on Transport and Communications. The Senate will debate the merits of this proposed legislation, and we look forward to hearing its views on our efforts to establish a world-leading approach to air passenger rights.

The intent has always been to have air passenger rights enshrined in regulations, as is done in the United States and the European Union. Undertaking a regulatory approach would also ensure that Canadians are consulted before and during the regulatory development phase. These passenger rights are for all Canadians, and this approach would ensure that their voice is being heard.

Public Services and ProcurementAdjournment Proceedings

6:40 p.m.

NDP

Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

Mr. Speaker, on October 4, 2017, I asked the Prime Minister when this government was going to finally do its job and ensure that the Phoenix pay system worked properly.

The government, through the Prime Minister, described the situation as unacceptable. However, nearly five months later, the situation is just as disastrous and there is no improvement in sight. It is shameful.

Allow me to reiterate that this new pay system was meant to modernize the old system from the 1970s, and was supposed to be more efficient. It is more of a failure. At the time, the government boasted about being able to save $688 million with this new system, but the reality is far different. The Phoenix pay system could end up costing taxpayers more than $1 billion, and it simply does not work.

If the government thought it was saving taxpayers money, then it failed. Let us not forget that thousands of public servants are suffering because of this government's failure. One in 10 public servants have experienced various problems ever since the Phoenix pay system came on line.

This government's mistake has had real consequences for public servants, causing some to lose their health benefits and others to lose their home.

In my riding, hundreds of public servants and retirees have been and still are the victims of the Phoenix pay system. I would like to commend one of those public servants from Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot for his resilience in the face of this fiasco. He told us how he had to mortgage his house so that he could deal with the many financial problems that this new pay system created for him. This is just one of many examples across the country. I must therefore ask this government, for the umpteenth time, to deal with this problem in an appropriate manner.

Last week, the Public Service Alliance of Canada called on the President of the Treasury Board to issue a remission order to protect federal public servants who have been subject to overpayment errors by Phoenix. This would provide them with an exemption from repaying the gross amount, which is more than what they received. I completely agree. It is shameful that public servants should have to pay back more than what they received.

It is absolutely ridiculous, when you think about it. The minister has the power to resolve the situation and that is what we are asking him to do. This government is asking public servants to repay the gross amount of overpayments. Its argument is that it will give them back the difference when they file their income tax return. Come on.

In closing, I will summarize the situation. It is not very pretty. First, some public servants are still unable to contact the pay centre and others have not been assured that their information has actually been recorded in the pay system. Second, because of the volume of errors that will be flagged, the unions fear that the employer will not be able to make all the necessary corrections to produce accurate T4 slips for all affected public servants by the end of February 2018. Third, even those public servants who were able to report an overpayment by the deadline will not be fully compensated by a tax refund.

In light of this fiasco, I believe that it is high time for the government to assume its responsibilities once and for all. I look forward to hearing the solutions proposed by the parliamentary secretary and I hope I do not hear the same reply as last time.

Public Services and ProcurementAdjournment Proceedings

6:45 p.m.

Kanata—Carleton Ontario

Liberal

Karen McCrimmon LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport

Mr. Speaker, our government is committed to doing whatever is necessary to ensure that public servants are paid accurately and on time.

When the problems with the pay system first emerged, our number one priority was to address the most serious problems: those employees receiving no pay at all. This is why we hired additional staff at the Miramichi pay centre and established satellite pay offices right across the country. This also allowed us to bring down wait times for parental and disability leave, which unions had asked us to prioritize. The problems with Phoenix ran so deep that it took us time to understand what was wrong and to identify solutions to stabilize the system.

We are implementing a series of measures focused on bringing the pay system to a point of stability. These measures, developed with employees, departments, agencies, and unions, are aimed at reducing the backlog of late transactions and wait times for missing pay. These measures are also well aligned with the recommendations of the Auditor General.

Going forward, our efforts to stabilize the pay system fall into four broad areas, namely, accountable and informed decisions, improved processes and technology, increased capacity and service, and partnership and engagement.

Allow me to now briefly discuss our efforts to increase capacity and improve service.

Since the launch of Phoenix, we have more than doubled the number of compensation advisers. We have hired 300 employees to bolster the ranks at the pay centre in order to expedite the processing of transactions and reduce wait times for employees.

We are aware of the need to provide more useful support to employees, and we plan to enhance our client contact centre by hiring up to 100 recruits. Employees will then be able to obtain detailed information about their pay file directly from those working at the contact centre.

Finally, employees can consult the Pay Bulletin to obtain pertinent information and the latest news on the progress we are making.

Over the past several months, we have been focused on implementing collective agreements. More recently, we have focused additional efforts on overpayments so that employees will have accurate slips for the tax filing season. Once we have completed work in those areas, we will be shifting more resources to reducing the number of outstanding transactions in the queue.

In closing, I want to thank the dedicated employees at Public Services and Procurement Canada and across departments and agencies who are working tirelessly to ensure that their colleagues are paid accurately and on time.

Public Services and ProcurementAdjournment Proceedings

6:50 p.m.

NDP

Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

Mr. Speaker, this is truly a catastrophic situation. Behind the numbers and the statistics, there are people suffering from chronic stress and anxiety, people who wonder daily if they will finally be paid what they are owed.

This situation is not only outrageous, it is nonsensical, because the Phoenix pay system's second anniversary, a dark day indeed, is just days away. I am sure that most of my colleagues will agree with me when I say that it is not exactly a day worth celebrating.

I have lost track of how many times I have risen to criticize the government for its lack of leadership and for being so slow to respond to a problem that is affecting thousands of our fellow Canadians.

It is high time the government stepped up. Half of all public servants have been affected by the Phoenix pay system, and things have only gotten worse over the past two years. I am once again asking the government to show some leadership and take swift action to fix this situation once and for all so that this time next year, we can say that the system is working well for everyone.

Public Services and ProcurementAdjournment Proceedings

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

Karen McCrimmon Liberal Kanata—Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, truthfully, there is no greater priority facing the public service than providing employees with an accurate and reliable pay system. There are no shortcuts, and there are no quick fixes.

Our government has done many different things to stabilize the Phoenix pay system.

There is much work to be done, and we are moving forward with an integrated whole-of-government approach aimed at addressing these unacceptable issues. We also continue to work with public service unions and other stakeholders to ensure that their expertise is part of the solution.

Public Services and ProcurementAdjournment Proceedings

6:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 2 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 6:54 p.m.)