House of Commons Hansard #334 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was change.

Topics

National Defence ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

Is there unanimous consent to see the clock at 6:30?

National Defence ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Private Members' BusinessGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I have received notice from the hon. member for Sault Ste. Marie that he is unable to move his motion during private members' hour on Tuesday, October 16, 2018.

It has not been possible to arrange an exchange of positions in the order of precedence. Accordingly, I am directing the table officers tomorrow to drop that item of business to the bottom of the order of precedence.

Private members' hour will, thus, be cancelled tomorrow and the House will continue with the business before it prior to private members' hour.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

5:20 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

The House will now proceed to the consideration of a motion to adjourn the House for the purpose of discussing a specific and important matter requiring urgent consideration, namely, global warming.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

moved:

That this House do now adjourn.

Madam Speaker, we have a choice, as elected officials, when confronted with a difficult and complicated issue like climate change. We can lead or we can follow. We can take evidence seriously and communicate the need for action to our communities, we can work to change minds in pursuit of the public good, we can spend our energy building the necessary political will to do what is right or we can do what is easy: we can dismiss experts, embrace populism and attack evidence-based solutions without offering any alternative of our own. We can do what is easy for electoral gain or we can fulfill our responsibilities as trustees in the public interest and do what is difficult because it is right.

I am going to quote an American. On September 12, 1962, President John F. Kennedy said the following about going to the moon:

We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win...

The same leadership is required now. We require that same willingness to spend significant time and resources to accomplish great things.

In contrast, here is what we heard from the current president on 60 Minutes this weekend:

I think something's happening. Something's changing and it'll change back again. I don't think it's a hoax, I think there's probably a difference. But I don't know that it's man-made. I will say this. I don't wanna give trillions and trillions of dollars. I don't wanna lose millions and millions of jobs. I don't wanna be put at a disadvantage....

I'm not denying climate change. But it could very well go back. You know, we're talkin' about over millions of years.

He went on to question the consensus among scientists that we should be concerned with human-caused global warming, stating that scientists have a very big political agenda. This is a failure of leadership. I highlight the lack of American leadership today because Americans have historically helped to lead our world in so many important ways. If we do not have committed American leadership, if we do not have America helping Canada to lead the world on this issue of climate change and tackling climate change, we face serious challenges in confronting this.

Of course, we face similar challenges of leadership here in Canada, too. Conservative Premier Doug Ford has recently said that he has heard from people across Ontario and from out west and he wants the Prime Minister's hands out of their pockets. This is a failure of leadership and, frankly, it is wilful blindness toward the evidence. Any Conservative MPP who supports this attack on evidence-based decision-making on the most important issue of the day should be ashamed of themselves.

We have a failure of leadership in this House, too, when we talk about the importance of climate change and the fact that a Nobel Prize winner in economics, William Nordhaus, won it for his support of carbon pricing, of putting a price on pollution. We have the Conservative opposition, not to a person because there is some leadership on this side but almost to a person, saying the carbon tax is a tax grab and the price on pollution is a tax grab.

I went to six schools this past week, elementary and high schools in the area, and I thanked the students of Bowmore, George Webster, East York, Malvern and Neil McNeil. When I asked them if those causing damage to our environment should have to pay for the damage they cause, everyone said they obviously should. When I asked if someone profiting from an activity and imposing the costs of that activity on the rest of us should be the one who pays, they said of course.

It is not just the kids who say this. Every economist, climate scientist, everyone who has studied this issue all say the same thing: we need to address the negative externality of polluting. We need to make sure that the cost of polluting is paid for by the polluter. We need to make sure a price is put on this to address the market failure. Yes, a carbon price, a price on pollution is the conservative way to address climate change. It is the most fiscally responsible way to address climate change. It is the market mechanism through which we can most effectively address climate. However, do not take it from me or the kids at Bowmore; take it from the 2018 winner of the Nobel Prize in economics and his lifetime of work.

I do not want to spend any time tonight just talking about one particular solution because, frankly, when I read that IPCC report and the importance of getting to one and a half degrees, my takeaway is that we need to talk about the problem. I think the problem is obvious. The kids in those classrooms think the problem is obvious. However, not enough Canadians clearly think that the problem is obvious. Certainly not enough people in this House think that the problem is obvious. We need to change that.

We see the chairs of the IPCC working groups say that this is a problem of political will. We know that the science is there and we know that we can go to the moon, as it were. I referenced John F. Kennedy, except that the difference is that going to the moon was a choice. We have no choice to tackle climate change and that is so clear in this recent report from the IPCC and thousands of scientists around the world.

We need to talk about the problem more because we have individuals in this House who say our solution is not any good without offering any solution at all. They clearly do not understand the significance, the importance and the nature of the problem. Thus, we need to talk about the problem and expand our efforts.

I cannot think of a more important issue to spend our efforts on addressing. We need to spend our efforts building the necessary political will. We need to show leadership. We need to say, yes, this is a difficult problem and that we are going to spend our time as leaders of our communities and of our country educating Canadians who do not understand the problem and do not understand the potential solutions while building the necessary political support for doing what is right.

We heard Debra Roberts of the IPCC say that over the next few years, not waiting until 2030, not waiting until 2045, and not waiting decades into the future, but that the next few years will be the most important in human history because the decisions we make now as political leaders on the issue of climate change will affect generations to come. I heard Jim Skea, another co-chair of the IPCC working group, say, “We know that the physics are there. We know that the chemistry is there. We know that the science is there and the final tick box is political will”.

If anyone in this House has kids or grandkids and cares about future generations, how is it that we can hear the clarion bell from scientists around the world from many different countries? The consensus from the scientific community is loud and clear.

We can see that the final tick box is political will. We stand or sit in this House and fail to take the necessary action to build that political will. Anyone who fails to take the steps necessary to build that political will is not doing their job in this House. They are taking the easy way out. They help by attacking the carbon tax in “axe the tax” because it rhymes, it might win an election and it is easy to sell. They should be ashamed of themselves.

This is so important not just to our generation. The IPCC report tells us that will see major changes. There are huge differences between one degree, one and a half degrees, two degrees or the disastrous three degrees that we are currently on pace for, major differences. This is not an “all or nothing” approach.

However, there is an idea that Canada plays a small role with a small number of emissions or that we have a high level of per capita emissions but we are such a small percentage of the total pie that we should not do anything. We are not going to be successful anyway, so what is the point? The future generations are the point. Every step we take to reduce a tonne of emissions will matter. We should do everything that we can reasonably do over the next few years, which are the most important in our history, to change this conversation and to frame this debate in the right way so that we can do what is right.

It is so frustrating. At the end of the day it comes down to political leadership and there just is not enough of it. We are in short supply.

It is incredibly important that we are having this debate tonight so that Canadians can see that some political leaders care. There are still members of the government willing to stand up and say that climate change is real and we are going to use the most efficient and effective method of tackling climate change because that is not only what the climate scientists tell us, that is what every expert who has studied the issue tells us. We running out of time. The IPCC report says that in a worst-case scenario we will face disastrous consequences if we continue on the pace that we are on by 2030, which is in 12 years.

Seeing what I have seen, the lack of leadership from the other side and the attack on basic steps, like putting a price on pollution as the government from the other side has tried to do, I can say that if we do not change the conversation now, we are going to wake up in 2025 or 2028 on the precipice of this disaster and we are simply not going to have done enough. Have we done enough today? I think the answer is absolutely no.

Over the last three years we have made significant strides toward tackling the most pressing issue of the day, not only for our country but for our world. I have talked about a lack of political leadership. However, we have had leadership in B.C. that has put a revenue-neutral price on pollution years ago. All it takes is us seeing what works, making that a rule for the rest of the country and, if the Nobel Prize winner in economics had his way, making that a rule for our global community.

Here is a quick rundown of some of the reasons for us to be optimistic: a price on carbon, a price on pollution; important investments in public transit, green infrastructure and clean energies; stringent rules on methane; and the phasing out of coal. These are all important steps, yet we are working with targets right now that are themselves insufficient to do the job. That is the fundamental point of this report, which is to say that the government, as political leaders, has to make sure that the target it is working toward is the right one. We have to not just hope for but have to work toward that 1.5° with a concrete plan if we want to stave off the worst of climate change.

What does that mean? What is it that we must do to do our part? For starters, it is the Paris Agreement. Yes, it is important that we entered into the Paris Agreement. The Paris Agreement contemplates that a country has to revisit the nationally determined contribution every five years. I would say in the wake of this report, the largest clarion bell from the science community is when scientists who are part of this report say that if there is any takeaway for people from this report, it is that this is an urgent issue to deal with, and that there is a sense of urgency. That is what I want political leaders to take away from this report. Therefore, if we are acting on that sense of political urgency, we need to make sure that our targets are consistent with that 1.5°, and that tomorrow no one is snapping their fingers and saying that we are fossil fuel free. It is an impossibility. We need to make sure we are on a trajectory to not only meet our current targets but to meet the targets and do our international, our intergenerational and our moral part by doing our part in the world.

Faced with the idea that we can walk away from doing what is right for not only ourselves but for the global community and future generations, we have to draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough, the science is there, enough of the political games, enough of the political attacks on good ideas and experts, that we stand with those who have studied the issue, we stand with scientists, we stand with the evidence, and we are going to act on the evidence in the best interest of our world.

What can we do beyond setting targets? I think the report is an important document, not only for stressing the urgency of the problem but for setting a pathway toward solutions. We know that transportation is a major issue that needs to be dealt with. The current government has to introduce a zero-emission vehicle strategy that is on par with world leaders like California. It has to tackle retrofits for buildings. If the provinces are walking away from the responsibility of providing incentives to homeowners and commercial landowners to retrofit their buildings to make sure they are resilient and there is no energy leakage, we as a government have to fill that void, be the political leaders in Canada, and make sure that there are programs so that homeowners and commercial landowners are doing their part in changing and upgrading their buildings.

We need to recognize that our own consumption habits make a huge difference. I know that no one is going to become vegan tomorrow because of the speech I give tonight, but I will say this. When I look at the reports of the impact of our diets on climate change, over 20% of the total greenhouse gas emissions are caused by livestock and agriculture. It is about 15% from livestock alone. Someone who consumes 100 grams of meat a day on average makes a two and a half times impact on climate change than someone who consumes a plant-based diet.

We all need to change our consumption habits if we care about future generations and doing our part in this world. Yes, it is mainly about governments but it is also about citizens. We are all in this together and we need to act as if we are in this together.

Scientists have been calling on political leaders to act for a very long time. In 1992, the Union of Concerned Scientists, composed of more than 1,700 independent scientists including the majority of living Nobel Laureates, wrote “1992 World Scientists' Warning to Humanity”:

A great change in our stewardship of the earth and the life on it is required, if vast human misery is to be avoided.

Fast forward to December of last year. Over 15,000 scientists from over 180 countries wrote a second warning to humanity:

Since 1992, with the exception of stabilizing the stratospheric ozone layer, humanity has failed to make sufficient progress in generally solving these foreseen environmental challenges, and alarmingly, most of them are getting far worse. Especially troubling is the current trajectory of potentially catastrophic climate change due to rising GHGs from burning fossil fuels, deforestation, and agricultural production—particularly from farming ruminants for meat consumption

Further on they state:

As most political leaders respond to pressure, scientists, media influencers, and lay citizens must insist that their governments take immediate action as a moral imperative to current and future generations of human and other life.

This past week we have another report from thousands of scientists saying that time is running out. We only have a runway of a few years to change course now so that we make those long-term planning decisions, so that by 2030 we are at a place where we are going to have a cleaner economy and we are going to be able to meet that 1.5° target.

I started with two quotes from American presidents, one good and one disastrous. If the Americans are unwilling to lead on the world stage, then that has to be Canada's role and we cannot lead on the world stage unless we take action at home.

If nothing else comes from this emergency debate, I hope for two things.

The first is that those following this debate at home will recognize that we have to talk about the problem more, with our neighbours and with our communities. We have to recognize the scope and importance and urgency of this problem if our political leaders are going to act, because at the end of the day, from what I have seen in the House, people will follow as citizens demand it, and we need citizens to demand it. We need citizens to ask for greater leadership from those in the House of Commons.

The second takeaway is those of us on this side of the House see a failure of leadership from the Conservative Party on this issue, but it is not all Conservatives. Mark Cameron, Preston Manning, and I could list a number of Conservatives who believe in market principles and pricing carbon but the current Conservative leader does not believe in that evidence and not enough people on that side are standing up to say they believe in evidence and that they are going to stand with the evidence and they are going to stand with the scientists.

If we are going to see a failure of leadership on that side, then we need to double down on this side and say that doing the right thing is more important than doing what is politically expedient.

When thousands of scientists around the world are saying now is the time to act, here is the pathway for action, and if we do not act there will be dire consequences, then it is up to us to be the political leaders. It is up to us to educate Canadians about the scope of the problem, the importance of the problem, the urgency of the problem, the solutions to the problem and make sure we act far faster and much more immediately than we currently are.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

5:40 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for quoting from President Kennedy's famous speech at Rice University regarding sending a man to the moon. He said that also in Congress on May 25, 1961.

Let us get back to the debate at hand. I think the member is sincere, and this is not about partisan politics, but I would ask him to explain why his government decided to impose the Liberal carbon tax on all Canadians, and then to lower these taxes on Canada's biggest polluters. Canadians will be on the hook for the government's lack of courage to stand up to Canada's big polluters.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

5:40 p.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am glad the member appreciated the quote from President Kennedy, who said, “We choose to go to the moon.” We do not choose to tackle climate change. It is our obligation and we have no choice. If we do not tackle climate change, we will have no clean planet to leave for future generations.

Economists tell us about the most efficient way of tackling climate change and its market failure of negative externality. When I produce a good and impose a cost on all of us, a diffused cost, in the environment which all of us bear, including future generations, and I do not bear it as the producer of that good, then there is a market failure. We correct that market failure by making sure that we impose that cost and internalize the externality. That is a conservative principle that is an economic principle.

The answer is a price on carbon. If we are concerned, and I am concerned, about single parents who are taking their kids to baseball practice and are having to pay a higher cost, the answer is simple because the answer has been in front of us in a Canadian context for years. We have taken revenue to ensure that we internalize that externality, that people are paying for polluting and we make sure we take all that money and we pay it back to citizens at the end of the day so that it is revenue neutral.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

5:45 p.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his very interesting and clearly very sincere speech. However, he did not answer my Conservative colleague's question, which was about why big polluters get a break on the carbon tax. That is an excellent question.

People often describe the NDP as Parliament's conscience, and I can see that the member is the government's conscience. Everything he said sounds great, but the fact is that hardly any of those words are being put into action. About two years ago, a specific portfolio was created for transportation electrification with the generous collaboration of my party's transportation critic. I have been keeping an eye on what has been going on over there for the past two years, but that has not kept me very busy because there is nothing going on.

The Minister of Transport spent a year consulting a bunch of people at Electric Mobility Canada, but nothing came of it. It would have been so easy to promote the only Canadian-made plug-in hybrid vehicle, the Chrysler Pacifica, but that did not happen. We make the nicest electric vehicle, but the government did not even bother to buy any to show off at Canada 150.

With respect to what happened at the G7, my friend is absolutely right. Very little was said about this issue, and much more could have been. The government bought at least 150 police vehicles: Toyota Sienna four-wheel drives and Dodge Chargers. The Toyota Siennas were sold at a loss. If the government had bought plug-in Chrysler Pacificas, it would have had no problem reselling them to the Government of Quebec, which is definitely in the market.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Speaker, I do not consider myself the conscience of the government simply because I think it is every parliamentarian's job regardless of political party to hold the government to account for failing to live up to promises where the government fails to do so.

If I failed to answer the Conservative member's question, allow me to answer it simply. I do not think that the simplest solution or the right solution would have been carved out of any exception for anyone, frankly. The answer to competitive worries is a border tax adjustment to ensure that incoming goods face a carbon price or a price on pollution just as domestic goods would be produced. There is economic research and literature on this as well. In my view, that would be the most appropriate solution to address the competitive concern, which is what the government was addressing by carving out the particular exceptions.

With respect to vehicles, I sat beside the Minister of Transport on a number of occasions to ask for updates on the zero emission vehicle strategy. I fully expect us to introduce one. My call today is to make sure that it is the best of class. If we are introducing something that is a watered-down version of what California introduced, in my view, that is not good enough. It needs to be best of class and I hope that we have waited as long as we have because they are ensuring that it is best of class.

The only other thing I would say is on procurement. Absolutely, we should be using federal procurement to invest in clean energies and to invest in alternatives to fossil fuels. We have adopted this approach with respect to phasing out plastics which is an incredibly important thing. Federal procurement is now going to be central to phasing out plastics and we should do the same thing with all clean energy. There is absolutely no question.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

I would remind hon. members to keep their questions and answers as concise as possible. There are a number of people who would like to get up.

The hon. member for Cariboo—Prince George.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Mr. Speaker, I thank our hon. colleague for bringing forth this debate tonight, but perhaps I misunderstood him in his presentation.

I shared with full disclosure about my family and my wife's family. Much of my riding of Cariboo—Prince George is cattle country. I know that Canada's cattle producers are leading the way in sustainable practices, sustainable harvesting and sustainable farming. They have been at the table with government, whether it was the previous government or the current government, and have worked with each administration to help achieve their economic as well as environmental goals.

I would ask my hon. colleague what he is proposing Canadians do, or the families who are dependent on this industry, through his presentation.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Speaker, my plea to my Conservative colleague, whom I have great respect for, is to stop the war against carbon pricing and a price on pollution and to follow the evidence. I trust in the member a lot, but in the same way that I have stood in this House and disagreed with my government, every Conservative member worth his or her salt who believes in the evidence should be standing up and disagreeing with the absence of leadership from the Conservative leader.

To answer the question, there are two things.

One, people should reduce their meat consumption, no question. If they care about climate change, they should reduce it. For them to cut it out entirely, that would be a longer conversation and I do not think we are ever going to get there. Absolutely, jobs are dependent upon the agriculture industry, but again, snapping our fingers and ending fossil fuels is impossible to do because of our economy, as is saying we will end meat consumption tomorrow. Nobody is going to snap his or her fingers and consumers are going change their minds on this.

Two, the member is absolutely right that Canadian producers produce in a sustainable way. We should be exporting those practices as much as possible. It is not just reducing meat consumption but making sure efficient processes and current practices in agriculture are exported to where agricultural practices are doing even more damage.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Speaker, one of the problems Canadians face specifically is the fact that we might not fully understand what the implications to us as Canadians are as a result of climate change. We live in a fairly stable climate environment. What does one degree really mean to us? It is also about what happens throughout the world with climate refugees and how people are going to move around, and what that does to the security of a country like Canada.

I wonder if the member could comment on what the implications really are for Canada if we experience what is suggested in this report.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Speaker, very briefly, scientists around the world are telling us that we are at greater risk as a global community, including in Canada, of forest fires and floods.

When my friend talks about climate refugees, I have 4,500 constituents in my riding from Bangladesh, and a good part of Bangladesh, which has 160 million people by the way, will be under water. We have a refugee crisis now in the world, and if we do not take action on climate change, that refugee crisis is going to be of epic proportions.

There are disasters and problems that we will face here at home, but when we talk about doing our part on the world stage, it is not just about how we individually are affected. I agree that if we talk about one degree here or a half degree there, it is hard for people to wrap their heads around it, but when we talk about islands under water and people having to leave their countries, we have a moral obligation to do our part, and we have to do it now.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to rise in the House today to speak to this emergency debate requested by the parties, concerning the climate and our fight against pollution.

Let me begin by saying that all 338 members of the House of Commons are in favour of measures to reduce pollution. That is not the issue. What we are looking for is positive, constructive, effective measures that have a direct impact on what we are trying to achieve. Let us not wax philosophical about lofty principles that will end up changing very little other than weighing down the economy and burdening Canadians who, as we know, get up early in the morning and work hard to earn their daily bread.

We are here tonight in the House of Commons to talk about the last report tabled at the United Nations by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. It was tabled there a few days ago.

This report shows that there is an urgent need to act and that we must limit global warming to 1.5°C to avert catastrophe. We all know that action is needed. However, the report indicates that the best way to act is to impose a tax on carbon, and that is where we tend to disagree.

I hear the government and the other opposition parties say that we absolutely must tax pollution, but we disagree. Let us be consistent and logical. They want to impose the Liberal carbon tax and refer to the UN report by quoting it as though it were the Bible.

What does the UN propose? The UN proposes a tax of $5,500 per tonne of carbon emitted. What does that mean? That means an additional tax of $12 per litre of gas.

I would like all members of the Liberal Party, the NDP, and the Green Party who agree with the UN report to stand up and confirm that they want a litre of gas to cost an extra $12 tomorrow morning. If that is what they want, then let us go ahead, but I do not think that is a very good idea.

We must also consider that we cannot stop global warming without the world's biggest polluters. China, India and the United States must participate in the collective effort. I have news for everyone: Canada does not exist in isolation.

If we want to address climate change, everyone around the world must be on board. In our view, taxing emissions is not the right approach. To reduce consumption and pollution, we need incentives that support research and development, like the ones we put in place when we were in government. Everyone is familiar with the results of those measures, but I will talk about them a little later. Those measures held promise for Canadians and for the planet. That is why our party does not support the Liberal carbon tax.

Let us now review the facts. When the Liberals came to power, the Prime Minister said that this issue had to be addressed and that carbon emissions had to be taxed. That was his position. He also said that the government would work with its provincial partners and that if they did not agree to the carbon tax within two years, he would impose it. The Prime Minister is telling us what he thinks is good for us, and he will impose it even if we do not agree. That is the current Liberal approach.

What happened in two and a half years? One by one, the provinces that were in favour of the carbon tax decided to take a step back because they realized that the Liberals' approach was not only arrogant, but also bad for the economy. Ontario, Alberta and Manitoba had committed to imposing the carbon tax, but they backed out. Prince Edward Island and Saskatchewan do not agree with the carbon tax. All of northern Canada, which includes Yukon, Nunavut and the Northwest Territories, has expressed serious concerns about this approach.

I am not allowed to say who is present in the House and who is not, but if any of my colleagues from Quebec happen to be here, they will remember that, in 2011, the Quebec National Assembly voted on a cap and trade measure known as the carbon market. Quebec decided, on its own authority, to introduce a carbon market, as British Columbia had done. If the provinces want to introduce a carbon tax or carbon market, it is their right to do so.

However, the Liberal government told them that if they do not introduce a carbon tax or carbon market, it will impose one on them. That is why millions of Canadians are opposed to this. The number of people who do not like the Liberals' policies keeps rising, considering that Alberta, Ontario, Saskatchewan, Prince Edward Island and Manitoba are all opposed to the Liberals' approach. There is a reason for that. The Liberal government's approach constitutes a direct attack on Canadian workers, on fathers and mothers who get up in the morning to drive their children to school or day care, on people who need to use their cars on the weekends to take their kids to sports activities. They are the ones who will pay more because the Liberal government is imposing a carbon tax.

Why is it that all Canadians are being attacked while the big polluters are getting off easy? Does the Liberal government have a double standard? For big polluters, such as manufacturing companies, which use an enormous amount of energy, the tax is going to be softened. The announcement was made on August 1. I have been in politics long enough to know that when announcements are made in the summer, it means the government does not really want to talk about them. This reminds me of the terrible measures announced by the Minister of Finance on July 18 of last year, when he launched a full-on attack on SMEs. On July 18, he made an announcement that was an attack on SMEs, and on August 1, he announced that big polluters will be less heavily taxed than all Canadian families. That is the Liberal approach, which should be strongly condemned.

Then there is the cover-up. The government knows exactly how much the Liberal carbon tax is going to cost Canadian families. Yes, it is going to cost us. The Liberals are not hiding that, but what they are hiding, what they refuse to tell Canadians, is that they have a study and they have an exact figure. They refuse to share it. Unfortunately, the Standing Orders prevent me from displaying a document that indicates the impact it will have on families. The figure has been redacted. It cannot be read at all. The government knows what that number is and refuses to tell Canadians.

I know these people. They are honourable and I have a lot of respect for them. If they have nothing to hide, then let's see the number. When people have nothing to hide, when they are proud of where they stand, they own that stance, so why is the Liberal government still hiding things from Canadians? Because it knows this will be expensive, it knows Canadians want nothing to do with this tax, and it knows that taxing all Canadians but making big polluters pay less is not going to go over well.

If the government happens to go ahead with its plan to impose a Liberal carbon tax on the provinces, even those that do not want it and said as much in a democratic election, it should at least have enough honour, dignity and respect for Canadians to publicly disclose what this could cost them. I would encourage the government to be more transparent and more careful.

Yes, British Columbia and Quebec decided to do it. I want to comment on that because I was there for the debate that took place in the National Assembly in 2011. I was representing Chauveau at the time, and I was the leader of my party. We decided to vote against taxing businesses and carbon pollution. We were against it. Some people are for it and some are against it. The people have spoken since then, and they have re-elected me three times, so that's that.

I would like to take this opportunity to set the record straight. People have a lot of preconceived notions about Conservatives. People say Conservatives are against environmental measures, they love oil, they love using energy and polluting, and so on.

I know that some will pay close attention to my remarks. According to a report by the Department of Natural Resources, greenhouse gas emissions declined by 2.2% between 2005 and 2015. The facts are the facts. This did not come from us. It is in black and white from the Department of Natural Resources. The same document indicates that GDP also increased by 16.9%.

Even though the ministers opposite like to brag about their lofty ideals and say that they, the Liberals, want to reduce greenhouse gases while growing the economy, I doubt that they have been able to accomplish that in three years. We, the Conservatives, pulled it off. I would like to see the stats on greenhouse gas emissions for the past three years.

There are also some who say that the Conservatives do not support agreements such as the Paris Agreement. What is the Paris Agreement target? It is exactly the same target as the one set by the previous Conservative government. Everyone around the world agreed with the previous Conservative government's greenhouse gas reduction targets. We cannot oppose our own position.

Four years ago, some people were getting all worked up over what they considered a foolish approach by the Conservatives. They thought the targets were no good and were not ambitious enough. The entire world, however, confirmed our targets at the Paris meeting, and we are very happy about this.

I would like to talk about the ecotrust program. Does anyone on the government side know anything about this program? Does anyone from the second opposition party know about the ecotrust program? How about someone from the Green Party?

The ecotrust program was a program launched by the Conservative government to help businesses reduce their greenhouse gases. We invested $1.5 billion of tax money to help reduce greenhouse gases. I challenge any member, and especially those from the Quebec City region, to ask three people at the mall whether they know about the ecotrust program. This would be tough, since no one talked about it, but we took action.

I am very proud to be part of a political party that, when it was in power, worked hard to help businesses reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. My party created positive, constructive, effective, practical programs like ecotrust, in which we they invested $1.5 billion to help businesses cut pollution, instead of taxing polluters but not taxing the biggest polluters.

CO2 Solutions is a company in my riding that has been working with Natural Resources Canada and Alberta's oil producers to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and reduce their environmental footprint. Its research centre is in my riding. I have known these people a long time. When I was a journalist, I reported on this company, which I am very proud of, and Stéphane Dion, who was the leader of the Liberal Party at the time, was even there. If I am not mistaken, he is now Canada's ambassador to Germany and the European Union.

Today we are seeing the result of that work. In 10 years, greenhouse gas emissions from oil sands development were reduced by 30%, thanks in part to CO2 Solutions and to the efforts of our government to help businesses reduce their greenhouse gas emissions instead of punishing the producers, but not the largest ones.

That is why I absolutely have no shame in sitting in the House as a Conservative. I am proud of our record. As long as Quebec is buying more than $10 billion worth of foreign oil, I will be very proud of the Canadian oil that we should be using here at home, in Canada, and which is also being exported around the world.

Our economy losing $15.6 billion a year is outrageous. I am not the one saying so; that is what Scotiabank's chief economist concluded in a study last weekend. We are losing $15.6 billion a year because we are unfortunately captive to the U.S. market.

Yes, we need to carry out projects like the Trans Mountain expansion. The Liberals' approach was to nationalize the pipeline and take $4.5 billion in taxpayers' money and send it to Houston. That was the worst thing to do, especially since not a single inch of the infamous pipeline has been built.

Let us be vigilant. Let us be wary of the Liberals' voracious appetite. They are imposing more taxes and taking more and more money out of taxpayers' pockets. They are imposing more taxes on the mothers and fathers who drive their children to sports activities on the weekends and to day care or school in the morning. Those are hard-working individuals.

Those Canadian workers will be directly affected by the Liberal carbon tax. That is why, one by one, the provinces have all withdrawn their support for the Liberals' approach. It is not just because Canadians will have to pay more taxes. The main reason is that the Liberals are imposing it on Canadians. That is not the way to go when everyone knows we need to take action to protect the environment.

This is why I am very proud to stand in the House of Commons on behalf of my party to talk about the fact that the people, the Canadian family, will have to pay for the Liberals' carbon tax, instead of their helping businesses to pollute less, which is what we did when we were in office. When we were in office we reduced pollution by 2.2%, and on the other hand the GST rose by 16.9%. Yes, we did raise things when we were in government. Unfortunately, the current government is imposing a new tax via carbon pricing. It states that whether or not the provinces agree, it will impose it. This is the worst-case scenario for all.

The government pays no respect to democracy. It pays no respect to its provincial counterparts. This is exactly what the Liberals are doing on this issue and on so many other issues. They think Ottawa knows best. No, Ottawa is not a place where everything is perfect and correct, where everything from the House of Commons and the current government are perfect. “Ottawa knows best” may be the motto of the Liberals. However, it is not the motto of all Canadians. This is why, when we think about how to fight climate change, how to address this sensitive issue and how to answer this question, we have to be very careful. However, more than that, we have to realize that the recent report by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change talked about a real, true increase for the taxpayer, for the average Joe, for the guy who rises up each and every morning, who works hard and wants to keep his money for what he is thinking of doing.

Yes, we want to protect the earth. We want to ensure that we will give her a better situation than we now have. However, we will not achieve that goal with a carbon tax.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

6:10 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his interesting speech.

There is one thing that I do not understand, and perhaps he can explain it to me. I always hear members of the Conservative Party saying that it is important to be careful of our spending because it is our children and grandchildren who will have to pay if we are not. That is something that they are always telling us to think about. However, the fact is that if we do nothing right now, our children and grandchildren will really be the ones who pay.

Can he explain to me why he is okay with letting our children and grandchildren pay the price of doing nothing now? This is urgent, and we need to take action now.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

6:10 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Toronto—Danforth. Her French is remarkable, and I appreciate it. In many respects, she is absolutely right.

In this case, I would like to remind the member that we are perfectly aware of the climate challenge. We know we have to take action, but we also know the Liberal approach of taxing emissions is not the right approach as we see it.

When we were in government, we helped businesses reduce their greenhouse gas emissions, and as everyone knows, that worked. Emissions dropped by 2.2% while we were in government, and our GDP went up. We reduced greenhouse gases, and we boosted the GDP. That is the perfect combination.

We do not want taxation. We do not want the Liberal government to impose its carbon tax. How is it that the Liberals got themselves elected on a promise to collaborate with their provincial partners, but when the provinces do not get on board, the Liberals drop the hammer and impose whatever they want? That is not the right way to do things.

Let me say it again for the member and for all Canadians: we want to be accountable to our children. That is why, when we were in government, we helped businesses reduce their greenhouse gas emissions instead of taxing them.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

6:10 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Louis-Saint-Laurent, for whom I have a great deal of respect. He is an excellent orator.

Sadly, I have to tell him that his speeches clearly show that he is missing the point. He mentioned that emissions went down under the Conservatives, but that happened for two reasons that he will not be so keen to admit. The first is that we went through an economic crisis that reduced economic activity and therefore reduced our greenhouse gas emissions. Secondly, he takes credit, or at least gives credit to his government, because he was not there at the time, for measures that were actually put in place by the provinces, not by the federal government. Even though the numbers back his claims, there is no cause and effect relationship between the previous Conservative government's actions and the results obtained during those years.

My colleague knows that I am an economist. I have been hearing him speak out against the carbon tax for months. The Nobel Prize in economics was just awarded to two researchers, William Nordhaus and Paul Romer, who specifically made the link between the need for a price on carbon and the effective reduction of our emissions, which led them to establish a correlation with our economic activity. It is an economic solution.

The solution proposed by the Conservatives, the sector-by-sector regulatory approach, did not work. In the end, it is more expensive. This was proven in the case of coal-fired emissions in particular. It is more expensive, but it is a hidden cost. Consumers pay it unknowingly. The Conservatives are not proposing any free solutions, but there is one solution that is internationally recognized and universally supported, and that is carbon pricing, whether it is a tax or a cap on emissions.

I would like to know what made my Conservative friend decide to oppose market solutions and transparent solutions and favour hidden solutions, which consumers end up paying for anyway.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

6:15 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Mr. Speaker, I truly appreciate my colleague from Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, the House leader of the New Democratic Party, whom I respect and hold in high esteem. We had a lot of fun together three and a half years ago when we were having weekly debates on RDI. I truly appreciate the depth of his comments.

Let us look at them one by one. First of all, there is the matter of greenhouse gas emissions going down under our government. He said that it was the economic crisis that reduced emissions. I would remind the member that although an economic crisis did happen, our government still managed to increase production, create wealth and grow our GDP by 16.9%. Not only were we able to lower emissions, but we also increased the GDP. He said that it was because of the provinces, but at the time, the 10 provinces did not all have a carbon tax or something of the sort. Everyone was making an effort, and the federal government, which we formed at the time, was also making an effort.

I cannot find one person in my riding who knows about ecotrust Canada because no one is talking about it. I am proud to do so. When we were in government, although I was not an MP then, our party established a $1.5 billion support program for businesses designed not to penalize them, but to help them. That is how we succeeded. In my riding, CO2 Solutions has had a tangible impact on greenhouse gas production. We lived up to our commitments, whether he likes it or not.

There are, however, economists who support the carbon tax. Is the member for Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques prepared to tell those people about the UN's proposal? It is proposing an additional tax of $5,500 per tonne, which equates to $12 per litre of gas. Is he prepared to tell those people? I wish him good luck.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

6:15 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my friend, the member for Louis-Saint-Laurent.

I am sorry, but I have to correct what he said. Canada's current target is not the same as the Paris Agreement target. Thanks to the efforts of the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, the Paris Agreement target or goal is to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees. That is the goal of the Paris Agreement.

It is not at all the same as the goal of reducing emissions by 30% below 2005 levels by 2030. That is Canada's target. He is right in saying that it is the same as the target submitted to the United Nations by the previous government.

What we have here is a very clear report that was requested by the COP21 decision-makers in Paris in 2015. What does it mean to hold the global average temperature change to no more than 1.5°C? What is the difference if we go to 2°C? This really is something that should be the subject of tonight's debate. What happens if we miss 1.5°C and miss 2°C and miss 3°C? We would enter into a self-accelerating, irreversible situation that would threaten civilization itself. I would urge my colleagues in the Conservative Party to look at the report and debate the science.

It is true that out of an 800-page report, there are three pages on carbon taxes, but the carbon tax debate is not the debate tonight. The debate tonight is what we must do in a non-partisan fashion to protect our children's futures.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

6:15 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Mr. Speaker, I might remind my colleague, for whom I have a lot of respect, that it is so sad that we do not collaborate any more with other committees, because we did a good job on electoral reform, even if it was one of the many promises broken by the current government.

What is the plan to address the reality of climate change? For the Liberals, it is taxation. That is their plan. If we talk about energy and how to address the reality of climate change, we will talk about the Liberal carbon tax for sure. Instead, when the Conservatives were in office, we helped businesses to pollute less. That was our plan and it worked. It worked quite well.

Yes, there are some proposals by the United Nations. If we apply them, a litre of gas will cost $12. If that is what they want, they should say so, and good luck, buddies, but we think it would be better to still have the highest standards working against pollution. Canada has the highest standards and we should respect our petroleum workers, who work hard and are an essential part of our economy. We should respect them.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

6:20 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the excellent member for Edmonton Strathcona.

I am very happy that this debate is happening. We, along with the member for Beaches—East York and the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands, requested an emergency debate on this very important topic.

The report released by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is extremely important because it highlights to our government and governments from around the world why it is crucial that we work together. The report also shows that we must stop looking for excuses to do nothing, as we have been doing for 30 years. This is exactly what happened in all of the discussions.

I am very happy to see that governments are getting together to debate these questions, as we saw in Kyoto, Copenhagen and Paris. However, at the end of the day, governments are avoiding the only logical and ultimately responsible solution of setting binding targets. Every possible excuse comes up during negotiations. The meeting in Paris is probably the best example of that. People claim to want to go a certain way knowing full well that nothing will happen if they fail. We will not get anywhere like this.

Canada cannot go it alone. The NDP agrees with the arguments some members made to that effect. The question is not whether we should act alone. If we want to be a world leader in the fight against climate change, we need to set an example, decide to take effective action to resolve our own problem and work with other countries so that they do the same.

Where do we stand right now? I do not want to make this a partisan debate, but there are some things that I want to point out. The Paris Agreement initially proposed keeping the global temperature increase this century to two degrees. Canada worked to set that target at 1.5 degrees instead. In its most recent report, the IPCC confirmed that this was the target that we should be trying to meet. If Canada wants to do that, we need to lower our emissions to 325 million tonnes by 2030. However, according to the government's latest performance report, we will only be able to reduce them to 500 million tonnes, which is a far cry from the target.

That is a problem because we cannot require other countries to meet the Paris targets if we cannot do so ourselves. As an economist, I agree with the comments made to the effect that, if we act unilaterally, it could be harmful to our economy. That is true. That is why we all need to act. The IPCC is not a Canadian organization. It is an international organization.

We recognize the need to act and to get the necessary tools to do so. That means that we need to talk about certain things and start promoting them. That could be a carbon tax or an emissions ceiling. Economists agree that that is the way to go. My economist colleagues are likely familiar with the term “Pigovian tax”, which is a tax that seeks to change people's behaviour.

The problem right now is that we have no incentive to change our behaviour. Without incentives, people will not change their lifestyle. They might make some minor adjustments, but that will do nothing to stop us from crashing an burning sooner or later. Many Quebeckers know that we should drive electric cars, or at least very fuel efficient cars. People know that; surveys show that we need to head in that direction. Even so, more and more SUVs are being sold, and not just here but across North America.

There is a big difference between what people know they should be doing and what they actually do. Talking about the right thing to do and encouraging people to do it is not going to fix the problem.

I referred to the fact that for the last three years we had not done much because all nations of this world, including Canada, were finding ways at every conference not to do anything that could constrain them into action.

I read a newspaper article that quoted John Sununu, who used to be a member of the U.S. cabinet. He was one of the people responsible for the failed climate change negotiations of 1989. He said that political leaders at the time were just pretending they cared about the issue. They said the right things, but never did anything. In a recent interview, he said that the leaders did not want to make hard commitments that would cost them serious resources. In his opinion, that is where we are today.

Eddie Goldenberg, Jean Chrétien's chief of staff, said more or less the same thing about Canada's decision to sign the Kyoto protocol. In 2002, he said that they knew when they signed the protocol that it was extremely ambitious and that it would be difficult to meet the targets. He doing nothing would have been worse and that the government had to sign the protocol. He also said that the Liberal government of the day never seriously intended to do anything. That is the very problem the IPCC has called out in report after report.

We know that we are going to hit a wall. We have to do something. The solution will not be unilateral on the part of one government or another. We have to work together.

When every government finds an excuse, expresses good intentions without doing anything tangible about it, claims they are doing something when in reality they are not, I fear for future generations.

I have children aged nine and six. They are the ones who will suffer the consequences of climate change and the extreme events we are unfortunately getting used to seeing more and more. I am referring to the fires in British Columbia and the western U.S., as well as the heat waves. This summer, in Montreal, there were five or six heat waves that took the lives of 70 people. That never used to happen.

My part of the country, the Lower St. Lawrence, is known for its damp climate and rolling fog. However, we have experienced extreme drought conditions the last two summers. We had no rain for a month and a half in August and September. That was also the case this past summer. I was in Rimouski the entire summer and it rained maybe four or five days. For the past two years, farmers have only had one cut of hay per year because there has not been enough rain to have two cuts. There is no longer enough winter silage in eastern Quebec.

UPA, the Union des producteurs agricoles, is sounding the alarm and has pointed out that Quebec experienced the most serious drought in 50 years this past summer. We need to take action. Where are the concrete measures?

The Conservatives established greenhouse gas reduction targets, but did nothing to achieve them. The Liberal government is telling us that it is headed in the right direction and that it will support the Paris climate agreement, but it is not changing the objectives. If the Conservatives did not attain these objectives, and the Liberals are also failing, we are not in a position to provide assurances that Canada will do its part.

I am pretty sure that we are one of the only countries that is debating the matter in a legislative chamber this evening. If we do nothing, how can we set an example for other countries and ask them to do something? If we do nothing, how can we demonstrate leadership?

The transition to renewable energies and greener energy should not be viewed in terms of job losses and costs to consumers. This transition provides new opportunities and can be positive for us and, more importantly, for our children. If we do not embrace this vision, we will not be able to do much or claim to be a leader, which is the image Canada wants to project internationally at this time.

I encourage everyone in this House to stop making excuses for not doing what needs to be done. I encourage everyone to think carefully about what we can do immediately to reach our Paris targets. We need to work with our international partners so that they, too, can benefit from this transition, which must be done on behalf of future generations.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Speaker, I think the NDP and the Liberal Party see eye to eye on the majority of the issue as it relates to the need and the pressing requirement for change with respect to our habits and the way we go about approaching climate change.

I heard my colleague talk a bit about reduced consumption in certain areas, encouraging people to get into smaller vehicles. That is not really happening because of the expansion of the sales of SUVs. Therefore, I would caution him to be careful about suggesting that it is all about changing the consumption and habits of people. He talked about electric vehicles. There are electric mini vans out there now. A number of car manufacturers are talking about electric SUVs coming along in the months ahead.

One of the fundamental problems we have in the country, as I see it and as it relates to this issue, is how we will square away the problem of more governments getting elected, especially at the provincial level, that have agendas against these actions. How do we go about ensuring the message continues to get out, in light of the fact that, as we are seeing in Ontario, Quebec and other provinces, there is a trend away from this? How does the member see us squaring off this political issue?

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

6:30 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, the first thing we need to do is to stop finding excuses not to do anything. I am looking at my Conservative friends here. I remember a time not long ago where Stephen Harper saw the Kyoto protocol as being a big socialist conspiracy. It is one thing not to agree with the means and to say that the measures being put forward are misguided or could be improved on, and we can improve on what is being proposed, but to state that this is a socialist conspiracy is trying to rally a base against any measure, any action.

I remember in the last Parliament when the Conservatives were in government. We had two parties, the NDP and the Liberals, talking about cap and trade. Each time we mentioned cap and trade, the government said that we wanted a tax. Why? Because it knew that for its base a tax was a bad thing and nobody understood cap and trade, which is a market mechanism.

We need to have some good faith here. I am not saying that what my friends here are saying is in bad faith, but I saw bad faith in the last Parliament with respect to those issues. Unfortunately, when we try to attack the actions being taken, without saying we can improve on this but that it is a good base, we are not going anywhere.

This is why we need to stop saying that it is all or nothing and we need to start ensuring that actions will be undertaken, be it transportation electrification, for which we have the only critic in the House on this issue, or be it on the establishment of a price on carbon, for which there is an international consensus among economists. We need to start agreeing that we are going to move forward instead of fighting the initiatives. The future depends on it.

Global WarmingEmergency Debate

6:35 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Mr. Speaker, can the member name a single country that has followed the Kyoto protocol?