Debates of Oct. 16th, 2018

Canada Labour Code

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the agriculture committee is studying mental health right now. Something I did not hear in the member's speech that maybe she could comment on are the mental health impacts on women when harassment and violence occur. There are impacts on businesses. It stops people from reaching their full potential. It stops business growth and does not do much good in the workplace. What about the individuals who are impacted and the mental health concerns I have around what happens to them personally?

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot speak to the specifics of mental health per se, but I can say that it demeans a woman, it makes her less confident in herself and more submissive to males, even though she is already being victimized, or harassed or put in her place.

As to mental health, I will leave that to the experts and psychologists.

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I would ask my colleague to elaborate a little on Bill C-65. Throughout her speech, I did not hear a whole lot of substance about Bill C-65. Rather, I heard a lot of accusations and character attacks against the sitting Prime Minister. Maybe she would like to take a bit of extra time and actually focus on Bill C-65.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we are speaking to a motion about the amendments proposed by the other place. If he wants to know more specifics about Bill C-65, I suggest he read it the way I did.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if my colleague across the way could provide her thoughts as to some of the mechanisms in the legislation that would be utilized by individuals in the workplace.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Speaker, people who have been victimized, or feel they are being harassed or have experienced violence can report it and it will be documented. We are curious, though, as to whether this would apply to parliamentarians in the workplace.

[Sean Fraser, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, Lib.]

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to rise today to offer some remarks in support of Bill C-65 so we can continue to move this important legislation through the legislative process and toward being implemented as law in Canada.

I would like to thank the minister responsible for the bill, as well as all of my colleagues from different parties who have taken part in the debate from inception to today. I had the pleasure of substituting in for a handful of studies while the bill was going through the standing committee process after second reading, and I am pleased to have it return to my attention today.

The bill is meant to address harassment and violence in federally regulated workplaces, Crown corporations and the federal public service. Over the course of my remarks, I hope to offer some thoughts on the scope of the problem of workplace harassment and violence, as well as address some of the measures included in Bill C-65 to combat these social problems. If time permits, I will address some of the Senate amendments.

It is my pleasure to begin by discussing head-on the subject of workplace harassment and violence. This social phenomenon, quite frankly, is a serious problem that has no place in Canadian society whatsoever. It is disappointing to me that while most people we speak to would acknowledge this, workplace harassment and violence continues to persist.

I note that in a study conducted by Abacus Data, one in 10 people believed harassment in the workplace was really quite common. This is unacceptable. The standard of one in 10 thinking it is quite common should shock the conscience of every Canadian. We need to be promoting healthy workplaces where people can feel free to be their best selves and ensure they are able to contribute fully.

What makes it worse is I anticipate that most people who actually experience harassment or violence in the workplace do not come forward as often as we would like to think they do and when they do, they feel the measures are extraordinarily ineffective. This is a very serious problem. In my opinion, the system we have today disincentivizes people to report harm done to them in the workplace, incidents such as harassment or violence in the workplace.

The impact of harassment and violence at work should concern every one of us. It obviously has an impact on the individual who is the subject of this harassment or violence. We can imagine that people who are subjected to harassment or violence at work experience a far higher degree of stress or anxiety when they go to work in the morning and put in their shift. I am sure as well that it is a less satisfying experience as an employee to go to work and face this kind of harassment. It will also impact work performance if an employee is worried about physical violence or emotional harassment of any kind in the workplace. It is hard to imagine how the individual could be his or her best.

This can also have a ripple effect over the course of a person's career. We know that if people are experiencing this kind of subjugation at work from another person, it has the potential to cause them to miss work. They could actually have their careers thrown off track. People leave jobs over these kinds of incidents. Often the person who suffers the greatest consequences from harassment is the victim rather than the perpetrator, which is unacceptable in today's Canada.

However, it is not just the victim or survivor of harassment and violence who suffers consequences. Quite frankly, everyone suffers.

To remove the emotional or social context from this and to just look at hard and crass economics, it does not make sense to continue with the current system that helps to perpetuate violence and harassment in the workplace. When employees are subjected to harassment and violence, productivity of our companies go down. We know there can be reputational damage done to employers as well as severe reputational damage done to the employees when there are allegations of harassment, true or untrue, in the workplace. We need to consider this. We also know that workers who are subjected to violence have a poorer attendance records at work, through no fault of their own, by the way, and this also brings down the ability of companies to succeed in the Canadian economy.

However, this cannot be dealt with simply in terms of the hard and crass economics. We have to understand that there are individual human beings at the centre of this and that there is a disproportionate impact on different kinds of people based on the rate at which they experience violence and harassment in the workplace.

In particular, marginalized groups such as women, the LGBTQ community, indigenous people, people living with disabilities, racial and religious minorities and linguistic minorities suffer harassment and violence in the workplace at a far greater rate than the ordinary Canadian citizen. That is not okay.

I have been given every advantage in life. I am a white male from a good family. My parents both had good jobs. People whom I have worked with through my life have faced so many obstacles I have not faced. I am not okay with continuing to obtain advantages that my neighbours do not have. We live in an unfair society. Until every one of my neighbours is free and has the same advantages I had growing up, I cannot give up fighting inequality in our society.

If we want to take, for example, the experience that Canadian women have as opposed to Canadian men when it comes to workplace harassment and violence, the examples will shock members. For my first three years as a parliamentarian, I had the pleasure and privilege of serving on the Standing Committee for the Status of Women. It was an eye-opening experience for me, to say the least. We conducted studies on things like gender-based analysis, on ending violence against young women and girls, and on seeking equity in the Canadian economy.

I had the opportunity to sift through testimony. It is something that I will never forget. I have spoken personally with women whose careers have been completely derailed because of harassment in the workplace, including in Crown corporations and the federal public service and in certain agencies where the rules will change when Bill C-65 is implemented. I have heard stories about women who have been pushed into divorce because of the harassment they experienced when a husband and wife worked in the same workplace. I have heard tales of women being harassed so much that when they requested a transfer to another location, the employer would not accommodate their family being transferred as well. Those are consequences that we cannot accept, because they are having such a devastating impact on individual Canadians and a systemic impact on large groups of the Canadian population.

We know that women experience rates of workplace harassment and violence three times the rate experienced by Canadian men. We know that women are more likely to find themselves in an occupation that is subject to workplace harassment. We know, for example, that women are disproportionately represented in positions such as clerks or administrative assistants that report higher incidents of harassment and violence in the workplace.

This is holding our society back. We know that if we have rules that might in effect discriminate against women, though may not seek to do so, then those rules need to change. We will all benefit when they do.

Over the past couple of years in #MeToo era, we have come to better understand this problem in society and it is time that we do something about it. I cannot, in good faith, stand up here and argue that Bill C-65 is the panacea that will erase all of our social problems when it comes to gender and equity, but it will move the ball forward. I hope that some day we will get there, one step at a time.

It is not just women who suffer disproportionately when it comes to the social problem of workplace harassment and violence. If we look at minorities or marginalized groups, such as the LGBTQ community, we know that they also face higher rates of violence and sexual harassment.

I had the opportunity to work for a human rights organization in Johannesburg in a position funded by the Canadian government. While I was there I did a fair amount of work with the LGBTQ community, helping them to access information held by the government. One of the key issues we focused on was employees who were wrongfully dismissed based on their sexual orientation or gender status. I have worked with clients who have been fired for reporting bullying as a result of their being transgender. That is not okay.

We have to remember that whatever one's sexual orientation, whatever one's gender, one does not deserve discrimination. I am talking about people who had spotless performance records, people who got along very well with their fellow employees but who, when they went public about going through a transition, were discriminated against and heavily bullied. When they reported to their employers they were experiencing this kind of bullying based on who they were as a person, the employers terminated their positions. Although it took years of fighting, we were able to obtain records demonstrating that the reason they were let go was that they had filed complaints that had caused their employers headaches. That is not okay. The rules in South Africa are not the same as the rules in Canada, but I want to highlight that we can always do better to make sure that everyone is treated equally.

If we consider indigenous people in the workplace, we need to do a better job at creating an environment and circumstances that make them feel welcome in the Canadian economy. We are dealing with the fastest growing and youngest segment of the population. This should concern not just indigenous Canadians but non-indigenous Canadians as well. If we are going to make progress as a country, we need to embrace the youngest and fastest growing sector of the population. Right now these people are being discriminated against. They experience violence in the workplace at more than double the rate of non-indigenous people.

If we consider persons with disabilities, one would not believe the lack of accommodation for them throughout our society. On a separate but related piece, I am so pleased that our government is moving forward with Bill C-81. I note that we have members in the House who strongly support those who live with episodic disabilities as well. I congratulate those who took part in that debate.

We know that individuals living with disabilities, and particularly those living with intellectual disabilities, suffer from harassment and workplace violence at an extraordinarily high rate, sometimes more than four times that of the average population. We know that those facing mobility challenges face an extraordinarily high rate of violence in the workplace as well, and are treated far too often as victims because they are seen as not having the tools to defend themselves like many other Canadians have. This is absolutely disgusting and we need to ensure that we have a process that prevents these kinds of incidents from occurring, one that offers a meaningful response, that delivers justice to the victims of harassment and violence and also creates a change in workplace culture.

My point is that workplace harassment and violence is a serious problem that we all need to play a part in addressing to ensure that we can move forward in Canada by supporting Canadians, no matter what their background.

That leads me to the measures contained in Bill C-65. It takes us to where we are today. I think it is appropriate to take a snapshot of where we are today and how today's rules can change for the better. Presently, if I can oversimplify things, there are two regimes for workplace harassment and violence in Canada. Those two regimes have different mechanisms for resolving the issues facing those who have been affected by harassment or violence in the workplace. This creates an imbalance between workplaces. To point to a defining kind of example, current sexual harassment rules only apply in the federally regulated private sector, whereas rules pertaining to violence apply to the public service as well. This kind of two-tier approach makes absolutely no sense. Whether one works in the private sector, in transportation for example, or the banking sector, as opposed to working for a branch of the federal public service, one deserves the same remedy if one is treated inappropriately, no matter where one works. This is incredibly important.

What really bothers me as well is that the workplace we all share here in Parliament does not fall under either of these categories. That has been newsworthy over the last number of years, particularly when dealing with the power imbalance between elected officials or senior members of government or of a different political party, who often deal with young people who are having their first experience in politics. There is an extreme power imbalance.

Today there is not really an effective remedy, in my opinion. We are getting better as a parliamentary community and a parliamentary family, but realistically, the stories we hear through the grapevine are predominantly of young women leaving politics after a few years of being exposed to it, if they have been victimized by sexual harassment or violence in the workplace. We need to do better and Bill C-65 is an opportunity to make us be just a little better.

There are three real pillars to Bill C-65 in how we are going to approach things moving forward. The first is that we are going to try to prevent incidents from taking place in the first place; the second that we will try to offer a meaningful response to incidents when they occur; and the third, and perhaps most important, that we will try to better support employees who have been victimized and lived through episodes of violence or harassment in the workplace.

On the point of prevention, Bill C-65 will require employers to train employees and undergo training. I was very pleased to take part in the training organized by the House of Commons to ensure that I could better understand what harassment and violence in the workplace look like. Some of the examples might be very obvious when it comes to a violent outburst and some of the more subtle instances of harassment, when viewed through the eyes of one person, who may be giving direction but can be interpreted and felt as harassment by another. Through training, employees and employers can better understand where the line that should never be crossed is.

Still on the point of prevention, employers will be required to work with their employees to develop a harassment and violence prevention policy. It is essential that this not be dictated from the top down. The feedback from those living in a work environment can contribute to the development of policy. When more voices from different perspectives come to the table, the quality of the policy on the back end will improve.

Under the second pillar of the changes under Bill C-65, the need to respond to incidents of harassment and violence, the bill would implement a number of measures. The first is the establishment of a timeline for responses and attempts to resolve a dispute. It will require that employers appoint a competent person to conduct proper investigations of incidents when they occur. It would also empower employers to share information with the workplace committee when it would not compromise the privacy of the persons involved in a given incident. It would also require that when an investigation by a competent person does take place, the recommendations of that investigation be implemented. Finally, it would require that when incidents occur, they be recorded and reported in a systemic way.

The final pillar is that employers will be required to provide assistance to employees who subjected to harassment or violence in the workplace and that employers engage the workplace committees in developing policies to help make their workplaces safer.

Bill C-65, as I mentioned, will not have every answer and will not cure every problem in a day, but it represents meaningful progress. One of the features included in the bill that would ensure that we are moving in the right direction over time is the five-year review. It would ensure that we revisit these policies after we have had enough time to determine whether they are having a meaningful impact. With the co-operation of the Parliament five years from now, hopefully we can examine how things have gone in this new world and continue to improve them.

In conclusion, it has been a privilege to learn about the issues that employees face when they are subjected to harassment and violence. It is completely inappropriate and unacceptable that we continue to discriminate against marginalized groups in the workplace, in federally regulated sectors, in the public service and in any employment situation in Canada, quite frankly. We need to do better and Bill C-65 helps move us in the right direction.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the member obviously cares a lot about this subject and has worked to deal with these sorts of situations. He talked a bit about the importance of privacy. Could he perhaps expand on how Bill C-65 would protect anonymity in smaller workplaces and the parliamentary workplace?

[Sean Fraser]

Mr. Speaker, this is very important. First, on the issue of privacy, obviously there can be extraordinary sensitivities at play when a person is dealing with the subject matter that might involve something like sexual harassment or sexualized violence. The harassment people experience when they come forward will shock members. If we sit with someone who has been through that experience who is brave enough to come forward and say they have been subjected to this kind of treatment, oftentimes they are disbelieved. People come out of the woodwork to criticize them, tell them they should not be doing this to the perpetrator of sexualized violence and that is not okay.

One of the things I had real concerns about and I know it is a controversial issue, particularly in a small workplace, is the potential for workplace committees to have previously been involved with investigations. My opinion is that the better approach is to have a confidential process through a competent person that does not involve all the people an employee has to sit next to when they are at work the next day, being aware of some of the rather intimate details of a very sensitive personal situation.

Measures like this would help ensure that we can get to the root of individual complaints, but share the systemic nature of problems that exist in the workplace that change policies that will help people going forward while maintaining the privacy of the individuals.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to reiterate the fact that all of us in the House understand the importance of a bill like Bill C-65 and the direction it takes us to ensure as leaders in the community and elected officials that we are taking a role and sending the message that sexual assault and harassment are no longer tolerated anywhere in the workplace.

There are some concerns with the bill. One area I mentioned earlier today was the provision where a complaint cannot be filed after that employee has been terminated from their position for three months. However, the minister has the authority to override that timeline, meaning the minister can make a decision that an employee can bring a complaint against a sitting member of Parliament or another staff member well after the timeline.

We worked very hard and I appreciate the work that the committee did to accept amendments from all parties, but I am concerned that there is still political interference or the optics of political interference in the bill.

I would like the member's comment on how important it is to ensure that we do not have those optics, that there are very clear mandates that the third party will deal with complaints against elected officials.

[Sean Fraser]

Mr. Speaker, one of the things I really hope happens is that more Canadians can watch debates like this. Our reputation sometimes collectively in Parliament is that we point and scream at one another and I appreciate that the question is a productive one that seeks to identify problems with the legislation and potentially improve upon them.

When I was at the committee after second reading, there was the issue of the potential problem with independence that might exist if there is a political advantage to be had when the minister is in charge. My understanding is as follows, and if I am incorrect I would be happy to have a follow-up conversation with the hon. member. In circumstances where the complaint would actually come to the minister, where there is a political element of that nature, the decision is delegated to the deputy minister in those instances.

To the extent that there is the potential for political interference, if a Liberal minister has the opportunity to chastise a Conservative member months after they are no longer in the job, or the other way around, then that would obviously be inappropriate. We cannot have ministers exercising their powers and prosecuting or dealing with a particular claim for political gain. We need to be centred around the impact on the person who has been subjected to the harassment and the violence and the need to change rules to ensure that going forward, fewer incidents like that take place.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank to the hon. member for the level of debate we are having. He mentioned the finger pointing and screaming that goes on in this place. An hour ago we had question period and one of the things I have been very disappointed in since I was elected is the discourse during question period and how members harass, yell, scream and try to belittle other members to try to build themselves up.

This legislation seeks to build up people around us and the impact that we have on people around us through our actions and words to build them up versus tear them down. Could the hon. member comment on the Parliamentary Employment and Staff Relations Act where we have to behave consistently whether we are in this place as members of Parliament talking to each other or whether we are in our offices as members of Parliament speaking with our staff? In either case, we have to look at our impact on the other people around us, at their mental health and their ability to do their jobs.

[Sean Fraser]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my friend and colleague who represents the good people of Guelph for the question.

Before we get into how Bill C-65 addresses this, the member makes a good point that we all need to look inward. It is awfully difficult for the public to accept that they should behave differently under the laws we pass if we do not model that kind of behaviour ourselves in this place and on Parliament Hill.

On the issue of the dynamic between elected officials and staff, which I touched on in my speech, it is something that the public is not aware of. One of the problems with the rules that we have today, as I mentioned, is that here on Parliament Hill the recourse for episodes of violence, if one works in the public service, or episodes of sexual harassment, if one works in federally regulated private sectors, just do not exist. Young people are actually rewarded for essentially keeping their mouths shut because they do not want to be viewed as a problem.

This is not okay. By creating a single, integrated system that allows us to be subjected to the same rules that other aspects of the public world are subjected to, we can ensure that the power imbalance that exists between an elected official, for example, and a staff person will not cause that staff person to see that there is no possibility for recourse if they come forward with a complaint against someone who may be in a position that makes that difficult for them.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I often think that we over here are forgotten.

I have a question for the member who has obviously been very thoughtful on this bill and in his previous experience. I note that this bill will also apply to federally regulated workplaces, including banks, telecommunications and transport. Of course, that would include rail and airlines.

I wonder if the member could speak to this issue. It is one thing to pass a law; it is another thing to have a strategy for compliance. I am wondering what actions are going to be taken by the government to ensure that these federally regulated workplaces actually comply with this law and, in fact, give the remedies that will be available under the legislation, ensuring that all employees working in those work situations will have the full protection of this law.

[Sean Fraser]

Mr. Speaker, I have previously had the pleasure of serving with my colleague on the transport committee. I recall on a number of occasions her advocacy to ensure that Transport Canada had the enforcement capacity to make sure the rules we adopt in this place can be fully implemented on the ground where it matters.

It is not just rail, banking, telecommunications and aviation that I have a concern with, I have a concern with the fact that any Canadian could go to work and not have the same protections. However, our constitutional authority only goes so far. The bill will aim to protect folks who work in those federally regulated sectors. Of course the employers in those sectors are subjected to the Canada Labour Code, and regulations are going to breathe life into the framework that is established in Bill C-65.

One of the things that we absolutely need to do, and I expect members in opposition should hold us to account if we fail to do, is ensure that the enforcement agencies responsible for ensuring that the protections on paper have an impact on the ground are present in Canadian society. The rules need to be worth more than the paper they are written on. We need to be able to have somebody out there in the communities to make sure that these employees have the protections they need.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Order. It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Vancouver East, Indigenous Affairs; the hon. member for Langley—Aldergrove, Foreign Investment; and the hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, Foreign Affairs.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time today with the amazing member for Drummond.

I am happy to be here to speak to Bill C-65 and the amendments that the Senate has sent our way. Just as a reminder to those folks back home, this is an act to amend the Canada Labour Code, harassment and violence, the Parliamentary Employment and Staff Relations Act and the Budget Implementation Act. I want to take this opportunity as well to recognize and appreciate the member for Jonquière from our caucus who worked so hard on this and presented many important amendments.

This is a serious topic that we are talking about today: safety from violence and harassment in the workplace. We have heard too many stories that are shocking and upsetting for us to hear, and it really speaks to a culture in our country and in our workplaces that it is important that the federal government take some leadership on. I am happy to see some of those steps happening.

This past week that we spent in the ridings, I had a constituent come to me and share with me a rather horrific story of sexual abuse for some of her family members. She talked to me about the reality that, with the #MeToo movement and some of the movements that we are seeing, we have to make space to hear from women and children some of the most horrific and painful things. She talked to me about the role that she sees in all levels of government to create an environment of safety so that people feel they can come forward, and really ask the questions of ourselves, of our functions, of our legislation and of the places we work and what things are putting barriers, closing doors and not creating safe environments for people to come forward. Therefore, it is important that when we are in this place we have this conversation and we continue to look at those doors and make sure we are opening them so that people feel safe.

The Senate has sent us back some amendments, and it is important that we look at them closely. One of the concerns I have is that this bill would end the ability of local health and safety committees and representatives to continue to participate in the investigation process. It is important that we protect people who come forward and that we create a safe environment for them to come forward. One of the things that is so important about having the health and safety people participate in these activities is they are the folks who are looking at what we can do better in the workplace. They are the people who will put together and present ideas of different types of training. They are really the ones who will support moving forward to change the culture of the workplace. Therefore, it is unfortunate that one of the amendments is not really directing this to move forward. That is too bad.

When it comes to the case of this bill, health and safety committees set up the process and identify the training needs. That is important because we need to know what people need to learn more about. In this place, we have all had to take some more training to understand more functionally what harassment looks like and what violence looks like. That is a great step in the right direction. This encourages us all to be accountable in this place, in the role that we hold as members of Parliament, in the work that we do and the staff that we work with. It is important that we create an environment of support, one that is safe and where we can open up those opportunities for people to come forward when they have experiences that are not very good and are very hard to share. It remains a concern for me that these committees cannot be involved and they cannot come in and support some of the work with controlling some of those gaps.

It is important that we review some statistics. The Abacus Data publication on sexual harassment of women shows that it is widespread in the workplace. Some of the publication's stats are that 53% of Canadian women have experienced unwanted sexual pressure and just under 50% of Canadian women have experienced some form of sexual harassment in the workplace; that number explodes to 64% of women in the workplace between the ages of 30 and 44. Seventy-seven per cent of the women surveyed and 63% of the men surveyed said that individuals who engaged in harassment in the workplace often do not face consequences.

As we sit in this place and talk about this legislation, we have to remember that when people are brave and come forward, they are not getting the support that they deserve. They do not see the people who engage in that harassment actually being held to account. I want to make sure that all of us in the House recognize that people who do not come forward are often brave in their own way. They have seen it happen again and again where they do not get the support they desperately need to move forward and the people who are engaged in that process are not held to account.

It is important that we remember that according to the “What We Heard” report, 60% of respondents experienced some form of harassment in the workplace. Nearly half of those people experienced harassment by a person with authority over them. It can be very scary for an individual to come forward when a person in authority is doing this type of activity to him or her. The victim often has to support his or her family and has to think of the consequences of any action taken. At the federal level, it is important that we take this into consideration and that we make sure the policy is strong enough so that people feel safe to come forward.

We also read in this report that racialized women, queer women, those with lower wage positions and precariously employed people are the most likely to be harassed in the workplace. This is really about vulnerability. This is about looking at that vulnerability and how to address some of these issues. I think of my own experience with constituents from the LGBTQ2 community who talk to me about how hard it is in some workplaces in the riding that I represent to come out and be public about who they are. At the federal level we need to ensure that people feel included and that they are not in an unsafe environment.

I am the NDP seniors critic. How many seniors are going into care facilities where they experience homophobia again and often go back in the closet? We have to set a tone. We have to encourage people from all sectors to recognize this behaviour and to stop it whenever they can. We do not want our elderly loved ones who go into a care facility suddenly having to hide their identity. That is simply not what we are about in this place, I would hope.

One of the things that I am a little disappointed in is that amendment 5(a), from my understanding, will not be supported by the government. This is really about releasing the investigation report to the victim. It is important that some of the information be redacted but the victim absolutely deserves to look at the report, to understand what is coming from the report, the recommendations that are going out, so that he or she can take the next step in knowing that his or her workplace is going to be safe.

These are serious conversations but they are also very precarious conversations. I am glad that every five years this legislation will come back for review.

We must always engage in a process where we create a safe environment for workers, where we have these meaningful discussions. We need to make sure that people are not shut down. We need to be leaders in this country. We need to see more people come forward.

There is a reason that the #MeToo movement is happening. It is definitely a time of hard battles, some of which are won and some of which are lost. We have to think about how we can create an environment where women, people from different communities, people with disabilities can actually feel included.

I remember not too long ago spending a day in a wheelchair. I met with a lovely woman in my riding. Karen has been in a wheelchair for many years. She talked to me about some of the discrimination that she faces and how hard it can sometimes be for this population to find meaningful work, because people do not support them and how they deal with that type of harassment.

It is important that we include people. It is important that we have legislation like this that really outlines what that looks like. We must always be accountable.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for her contribution this afternoon and particularly for her comments with respect to amendment 5(a). I also had some struggles with that amendment, but thinking along the lines of the person in the workplace, how important it is to protect that person so as complaints are coming forward we are not aggravating an already terrible situation but we are bringing things into a private area where we can have honest and frank discussions and try to de-escalate what is going on in the workplace.

Could the hon. member talk about the impact this legislation might have on the perpetrators of violence in the workplace? How can we try to de-escalate their behaviour which in many cases has been lifelong behaviour?

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as we look at the movements that are happening across the world where women are coming forward and talking about their history, I think we really have to look at the reality that sometimes non-productive and very inappropriate behaviour has been normalized. It is important that we have that conversation.

At the end of the day, when we look at these reports, we redact information. However, the victims definitely need to see that steps are going to be taken. We cannot just promise that there is a good report and hopefully things will get better for them. We have to look at it as something these people have to believe in because when they are victimized, they have to put their trust in the process. That needs to absolutely work. It needs to create an environment where the people who are the perpetrators are actually seeing that behaviour change in a meaningful way or they are removed from that space. This is really important. It really speaks to a lot of men saying that they do not know how to act anymore with the #MeToo movement, but that is okay, because women have been really uncomfortable with a lot of behaviour for a long time. It is absolutely appropriate for people to reflect on what they are doing, have a meaningful internal discussion with themselves and absolutely change some of that.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Employment]

Mr. Speaker, I had the opportunity to sit in on quite a bit of the testimony and the member's colleague from Jonquière made a considerable contribution not just to the legislation but throughout the hearing process. I know the member worked very hard on this particular piece.

The one way in which we are fortunate is that all parties see the merit, the significance and the importance of this.

The member raised the point that at committee there were concerns raised throughout the testimony that the witnesses believed that if information was shared with the committee it might be less likely for people who experienced harassment or assault to come forward because everybody in the office would know about it. Does she see the challenge in that or does she see the merit in the position that they would sooner have a trusted arbitrator as opposed to a committee?

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, first of all I think it is really important for us all to remember that this process should be very complex. It should be one that is focused on the victim. We absolutely have to listen to the people who have come forward, look at the process that has unfolded for them and make it as robust as we can. Let us continue to look at those processes, but at the same time, let us not forget that these are some of the folks who actually make sure that this is a workplace environment that needs to be changed. They address the training. They look at building a safer environment. It is important that we find a way to absolutely honour the victim but look at the work and how it is laid out. We need to see change in these workplaces. These are drivers of change, so let us use them as much as we possibly can.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate my colleague from North Island—Powell River for her excellent speech. She gave a really good speech and delivered it with passion. She also gave many examples of what she and her constituents experience.

It is extremely important to point out that the context for this speech is Bill C-65. The bill would amend the Canada Labour Code with respect to harassment and violence, the Parliamentary Employment and Staff Relations Act and the Budget Implementation Act, 2017, No. 1.

Bill C-65 is a very important bill. As my colleague mentioned, the member for Jonquière worked very hard on this bill in committee. She proposed 17 amendments and three of them were accepted. This means that not only were the amendments warranted, but she managed to persuade our Liberal and Conservative colleagues of their merit. Naturally, that is very important.

For the record, the NDP has always fought to give workers better protection.

This bill sets out a clear, standardized procedure to help workers and employers address allegations of bullying, harassment and sexual harassment. Strict rules will be put in place to protect the privacy of victims of harassment or violence, which is good news. The bill will harmonize separate labour standards related to sexual harassment and violence. The two existing standards will be amalgamated to create a single standard.

Part 1 of the bill amends the Canada Labour Code to include sexual harassment and sexual violence. Some of my colleagues pointed out that psychological harassment could have been included as well. This bill covers harassment in general, but it does not get into a lot of detail about psychological harassment. That would have been an improvement to the bill. Part 2 amends part III of the Parliamentary Employment and Staff Relations Act with respect to the application of part II of the Canada Labour Code to parliamentary employers and employees. Basically, it deals with labour relations in Parliament.

Violence and sexual, physical, psychological or emotional harassment in the workplace are neither tolerable nor acceptable. That is why it is extremely important to advance this bill. However, it is important to point out that the bill does have a small flaw that must be corrected: it excludes joint health and safety committees from the investigation process, to the dismay of unions. The joint health and safety committees should continue to operate.

It is vital that they continue participating in the investigative process, as was previously the case. There are three types of joint committees that can be set up depending on the size of the business. It could be a health and safety policy committee, a local health and safety committee, or a committee with just one health and safety representative. These committees are being excluded from specific aspects of the investigative process. Under Bill C-65, the committees would no longer be able to conduct investigations of harassment or violence, or to receive complaints. The unions criticized the change because this worked in the past. We could improve the bill by keeping the unions involved.

There are a number of reasons why unions absolutely want to continue to participate in the investigative process. First, they have the expertise. They have extensive experience on joint committees that investigate harassment and violence. Therefore, it is deplorable that they are being sidelined.

Second is that the joint committees allow for an extreme diversity of investigators that is not found anywhere else. They make it possible to achieve the ideal representation, whether we are talking about sexual, ethnic or other minorities.

These committees exist. They have expertise and experience. They are legitimate and recognized. That is why unions are disappointed that these committees are being excluded from some stages of the investigation process.

Bill C-65 is essentially a procedural bill that establishes an investigative process. It is therefore very important. We know that low-income workers and those in precarious jobs, as well as racialized and queer women, are more likely to be harassed or experience violence at work. Once the bill is passed, it will apply to all federally regulated workplaces. That is good news.

However, some questions remain unanswered, so let us hope that the Liberal government answers those questions quickly. For example, will the bill be accompanied by the necessary human resources and training? When a bill is passed, the government must be sure that it can be implemented. In this case, that will take staff and training.

Will unionized workers have the right to union representation throughout the complaint resolution process? Many people are concerned about that. They need to have all the necessary information.

I am very proud of the work of the hon. member for Jonquière, who proposed 17 amendments in committee, three of which were passed. This shows that the NDP does an excellent job. Allow me to digress. Yesterday evening, I was very proud of the work of the NDP in getting a motion adopted to hold an emergency debate on the alarming IPCC report. In light of the report, the government cannot just go to Paris and say that Canada is back and then settle for keeping the Conservatives' same terrible targets. These targets do not enable us to do our fair share of the work to hold global warming at 1.5 degrees, as required.

It is also necessary to make investments in the right places. We have to stop the subsidies to the oil and gas industries, which account for nearly $2 billion in spending. Instead, we could invest that money in energy transition. To make matters worse, the government bought an old pipeline. That is terrible. It shows that the government is not serious about this. That is why I am proud that the NDP requested this emergency debate and the request was granted. Last night's debate, which lasted several hours, gave us the opportunity to stress the importance of acting quickly to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees.

In closing, we will support Bill C-65, which seeks to amend the Canada Labour Code. We are pleased with the improvements that were made. Some questions remain unanswered, but the work in committee helped clarify many things. Again, I congratulate the hon. member for Jonquière, who proposed 17 amendments, three of which were adopted.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Employment]

Mr. Speaker, my NDP colleague voiced concern about whether resources would follow this legislation. I will put on the record for clarification that in budget 2018, our government announced it was providing $35 million over five years, starting in 2018-19, with $7.4 million per year ongoing to support Bill C-65. That money would be used to develop training programs for labour program inspectors; create an awareness campaign; provide educational materials, tools and workplace priorities; hire additional labour program investigators; put in place an outreach hub accessible through a 1-800 number; and support regulatory development and enforcement activities. I want to ensure he understands that those would be available.

Beyond that, what came out in much of the testimony was the importance of changing our culture. One piece of legislation will not do that. I would ask the member if he sees a shift and different approach throughout workplace culture happening and evolving.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his clarifications regarding the budget allocated to properly support the bill's amendments to the Canada Labour Code regarding harassment and violence.

As my colleague mentioned, implementing these measures and the subsequent regulations is crucial, as is allocating the necessary financial and human resources, particularly with respect to training, in order to continue monitoring and improving working conditions.

Unfortunately, workplace harassment and violence, whether psychological or sexual, still exist today and it must stop. We must do everything we can to put an end to this abuse. I therefore support my colleague's comments.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, while the government has been commended on moving forward with stronger laws for the protection of workers in federal areas of employment, one of the issues that has been raised is that a good number of the workers are covered by collective agreements and others are not.

Could my colleague speak to whether he thinks that may be an issue, or does he have any experience with whether the rights under both may interfere with each other or is it important that the federal legislation also take that into account and figure out a way to resolve any overlaps or differences in those two processes?