House of Commons Hansard #337 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was segregation.

Topics

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

The motion is in order.

The hon. member for Winnipeg Centre for questions and comments.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Liberal

Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB

Madam Speaker, under the Conservative regime, they started mixing prisoners who should not have been mixed together. That created a very dangerous situation. My brother is a corrections officer, and the Conservatives in that situation made it extremely unsafe in the prison system, and now our government has to spend a lot of time trying to clean up the mess the Conservatives left us after a decade of darkness. It was absolutely horrific. The Conservatives talk about the rights of victims and drape themselves with the victims, but at the end of the day, they created extremely dangerous situations.

I would contend that the situation in the prison at Prince Albert, for instance, was created directly by the regressive policies the Conservatives put in place. In fact, these were so destructive of our corrections system that they created extremely dangerous situations, which led to riots and violence in the system.

We need to look for ways to make the system safer and to make it work for the people working in the correctional facilities and for the prisoners who find themselves there so they can be rehabilitated, because most of them will eventually end up back in society. We need to find ways of making the system work for Canadians, and not follow regressive policies that do not work.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Madam Speaker, there is so much going on in that question.

I saw this last week. Within prison walls, there are problems with race, problems with language. I was surprised, because the problems were not necessarily connected to mixing white and black inmates. For example, in the Quebec City prison, the problem is between anglophones and francophones. The officers manage these situations by having separated wings in the prisons. Different street gangs cannot be mixed, of course.

I do not understand what the Liberal member was trying to suggest. There may have been some policies that changed things at the time, but the fact remains that there are problems now, and they already have the solution of separating groups. Will these groups all be mixed together if there are new structured intervention units?

From my understanding of the bill, it seems that that will be the case.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC

Madam Speaker, I take issue with the use of the word “volatile”. Taking mental health problems seriously and not using this type of language is what ensures public safety. We are not talking about a one-size-fits-all solution, to paraphrase what my colleague is trying to do.

The reality is that the Ontario Superior Court of Justice found that more than 48 hours in administrative segregation caused serious, irreversible mental health problems. The United Nations found that more than two weeks in solitary confinement is considered a form of torture. Between 2011 and 2014, 19 suicides were committed in administrative segregation.

The question I have for my colleague is this: how is public safety ensured by exacerbating existing mental health problems in certain inmates? How is public safety ensured by having a system that has a clearly disproportionate representation of vulnerable individuals who will simply be released and reoffend, when we could truly help these people who have mental health problems and ensure public safety?

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question. If I am not mistaken, when our government was in power, measures were put in place to help inmates with mental health problems. We recognize that mental health is an issue and we do not want to hide that, on the contrary. We have already taken measures and now we are prepared to help people so that they do not fall any deeper into depression than they already are.

The fact is that we believe Bill C-83 goes way too far in how its perspective of the reality on the ground, the reality of prisoner management. It goes to an extreme that does not work. The government could have proposed a more balanced approach, a different perspective, but this bill is way too extreme. It will not work.

I agree with my colleague that it may be problematic to keep people in solitary confinement for long periods of time without cause, but this bill does not resolve that issue.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Madam Speaker, during my work on my private member's bill, Bill C-211, which includes correctional officers, I spoke at length with correctional officers regarding the fact that they were the front line. They see, hear and experience oftentimes the worst of our society.

In a recent statement by the president of the Union of Canadian Correctional Officers, he mentioned that over 100 assaults on officers over the last 12 months had taken place at the Regional Psychiatric Centre. Does our hon. colleague feel that the removal of disciplinary tools, such as what Bill C-83 proposes, enhances the security of correctional officers or does it make them more vulnerable to assault?

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Madam Speaker, my colleague from Cariboo—Prince George raises an excellent question.

That is exactly what I was told last week in Donnacona. A number of correctional officers are on leave right now because of post-traumatic stress caused by assaults committed within the prison. Unbelievable things happen in our prisons. I was shown several videos of different types of assault. Correctional officers have to intervene in those situations. They are in real danger. They intervene to keep an inmate from killing someone, but then another inmate may come up behind them.

It is a very difficult place to work. The government wants to treat the worst of the worst like delicate little flowers, while our correctional officers are putting their lives at risk every day. These officers are having a hard time understanding what the government is doing, and with good reason.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Stéphane Lauzon Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence, Lib.

Madam Speaker, I listened closely to my opposition colleague's speech. Like his fellow Conservatives, he is once again using the politics of fear. He is also being overly dramatic by sharing examples solely for the purpose of scaring people. The opposition's examples and analogies are essentially misinformation with their talk of luxury condos and treating prisoners like delicate flowers and so on.

Does my colleague agree that it is much better to support people with professional rehabilitation services than to put them in long-term solitary confinement, which makes them even more vulnerable?

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Madam Speaker, I love it when the Liberals tell us we are scaring people or doing whatever, but I think we are the ones who see things as they really are.

As I just said, I have visited Donnacona. Union presidents come to see my colleagues and me to tell us what goes on in the real world. They do not talk about what goes on in some imaginary world; they talk about what goes on in real life. That is not scaring people, for crying out loud. We are talking about the worst criminals in the world here, and we cannot start saying we should handle the poor things the way we would handle a 15-year-old kid. It is not the same thing.

We do not want to scare people. We want to tell Canadians, and Quebeckers in particular, that we understand them and we are listening to them. Yes, we believe in rehabilitation. Yes, we know mental health issues are real. We know some people are in prison because of mental health issues, and of course we want to help them deal with those issues.

Take the Paul Bernardo case. I am glad he did not get out of prison yesterday. He is one example. What are we to do with him? He has spent 25 years in prison. Some will say that he has done his time. He is mentally ill, he is crazy. I hope he will stay there until the end of his days. Is my colleague now going to accuse me of stoking Canadians' fears? This is life, this is the real world.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC

Madam Speaker, I would like to come back to the issue of correctional officer's safety. In 2011, costs at Correctional Service Canada rose by $250 million. Between 2012 and 2015, the Conservative government cut its budget by $300 million, not to mention the two shuttered penitentiaries.

Can my colleague tell me how that helps correctional officers do their job?

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for his question.

I was not there. The fact is that certain decisions are made at certain times. I can say that, despite what people think, Donnacona is about half full, I believe. One wing is completely empty and the other half is empty. There is plenty of room in there for more sickos. We need to deal with the Jordan decision so that people can be judged and put behind bars. If the CSC needs more money, we can make that happen. Nothing would make me happier.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC

Madam Speaker, today we are debating Bill C-83, which was introduced by the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness in response to several court rulings and a debate over administrative segregation that has raged in Canada for years.

I want to thank organizations like the John Howard Society, the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies and the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association, which are leading the charge against the overuse of administrative segregation. They won out in two slightly different court rulings.

Before I start, I want to give some background on those court rulings because they impact today's debate. The minister himself said that Bill C-83 is partly intended as a response to the concerns expressed by the court.

Let us start with the Supreme Court of British Columbia. In its recent decision, the court explicitly said that there are not enough tools for ensuring, for example, that a lawyer is present during administrative segregation hearings. It also mentioned the inhumane conditions imposed by overuse of administrative segregation and the fact that a predetermined time limit on the use of administrative segregation had been ignored.

That ties in with part of the ruling from the Ontario Superior Court of Justice, which states that more than 48 hours in administrative segregation caused serious, irreversible mental health problems. This also ties in with the UN's finding that more than two weeks in administrative segregation can be defined as a form of torture. These findings are so important.

The use of administrative segregation has been found to be abusive by the correctional investigator countless times and in countless reports that he has published over the past decade. We also see that an overrepresentation of certain vulnerable populations in administrative segregation shows that there is not only an abusive use, but an extremely problematic use that can exacerbate problems in some cases and hinder rehabilitation efforts of certain inmates in our correctional system.

For example, there is an overrepresentation of women with mental health problems. There is also an overrepresentation of indigenous peoples, since 42% of inmates in administrative segregation are indigenous peoples. It is mind-boggling to see just how overrepresented indigenous peoples are in administrative segregation. Let us not forget that they are already overrepresented the general prison population.

The decision brought forward by the Supreme Court of British Columbia, following efforts by, among others, the BC Civil Liberties Association, made it clear that the Correctional Service of Canada was acting in a way that was deemed to be unconstitutional under section 7.

What did the government do following a very clear prescription from that court about what could be done in order to remedy the situation? It appealed that decision, and that was shameful. It was interesting that in June 2017, certainly before that decision was made, the government had legislation before the House, which is still on the Order Paper, Bill C-56.

Bill C-56 sought to remedy, in part, the issue before us today, the issue of solitary confinement, by imposing a 21-day limit that would then be followed by a review. Despite any decision that might be made, any findings of abuse or overuse of solitary confinement, there was no independent mechanism to act on any findings of abuse. All that was required to prolong the 21-day period was for the warden, the head of the institution, to provide reasons in writing. To be honest, that is a pretty low threshold for continuing with a practice that has already been deemed, as I have said on several instances, to be problematic.

We are not the only ones saying this. This is something that has been going on for a long time. As I said in my question to the minister, Justice Arbour long ago called for judicial oversight of the use of administrative segregation, or solitary confinement, if members prefer less Orwellian language for what this practice actually is. That followed a commission on certain events in the women's prison in Kingston. That recommendation has so far gone unanswered, not to mention the many recommendations that followed from the investigation into the circumstances surrounding the horrible situation with Ashley Smith.

This leads me to another troubling statistic. Between 2011 and 2014, 14 inmates who found themselves in solitary confinement committed suicide. This is a public safety issue. Let us be clear. Using a tool that exacerbates mental health situations in corrections and diminishes the ability of corrections to rehabilitate those offenders will inevitably cause a public safety concern with respect to recidivism and other things.

That is why, when we look at the tools being used, understanding that corrections officers need tools to ensure safety within the institutions they manage, we also have to understand the danger that can be created by exacerbating existing issues and the importance of prioritizing rehabilitation.

I would like to read the testimony of some experts in order to demonstrate to what extent the bill before us is problematic.

I will read the press release issued yesterday by Senator Kim Pate, who was the then CEO of the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies.

Senator Pate said:

With respect to segregation, Bill C-83, is not only merely a rebranding of the same damaging practice as “Structured Intervention Units”, the new bill...also virtually eliminates existing, already inadequate limitations on its use.

Moreover, she adds:

Bill C-83 also maintains the status quo regarding a lack of effective external oversight of correctional decision making. Under the new legislation, all decision making regarding when and how long prisoners are to be segregated will be made by a CSC administrator without the review of any third party.

The last sentence in that paragraph goes to an earlier point I made:

This change represents another step away from Justice Louise Arbour's recommendation for judicial oversight of corrections following the Commission of Inquiry into Certain Events at the Prison for Women in Kingston.

I agree with Senator Pate.

It is quite disturbing that, in media articles and in his comments, the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness is trying to give the impression that the government is working to eliminate administrative segregation. That is just a sham.

Let us be clear. What the government is really trying to do is to make a few changes to the administrative segregation process in correctional institutions. In fact, all they are doing is calling it something else. It is disturbing, since the government is appealing a decision of the B.C. Supreme Court that clearly identifies the problems with administrative segregation.

In a media scrum after the bill was introduced earlier this week, the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness implied that what they are calling it now is no longer administrative segregation. They appear to believe that by changing what they call it, they can avoid their obligations with respect to administrative segregation imposed by the Supreme Court and listed by the United Nations.

The senator is not the only one to say so, and I would also like to share with the House the opinion of a correctional investigator.

The correctional investigator, Dr. Ivan Zinger, shares the same assessment as Senator Pate, and that I have made, of the proposed legislation. Dr. Zinger told iPolitics:

We may end up with a regime that touches more people and that is very restrictive.... This is a widening of the net of those restrictive environments. There’s no procedural safeguard.

Two things in this passage are extremely important. Not only will administrative segregation continue under another name, but they are going to be casting a wider net. This will drag in more inmates, who may also belong to vulnerable groups that are already overrepresented in administrative segregation.

There is no procedure in place for reviewing or appealing decisions to place inmates in administrative segregation. The lack of third-party review and an appeal mechanism is extremely disturbing.

When I asked the minister the question, he said that it was not important and that there were already mechanisms in place, including multiple reviews by the commissioner and a review by the institution’s warden.

That is simply not enough. It has been clearly found and established in correctional investigators’ reports, court decisions and United Nations resolutions that there has been abusive use of administrative segregation. According to the experts and in my own opinion, it is not enough to simply rely on wardens’ and the commissioner’s decisions. Of course, these individuals have a certain expertise. They are responsible for managing their institutions, and we respect that.

However, once it has been determined that there has been abuse, there must be a recourse mechanism for putting a stop to that abuse.

That is the problem with some of the measures concerning the new powers that would be given to recognized health care professionals. On the surface, and in a somewhat substantive way, this is a positive thing. However, there are two key issues with what health care professionals could do under Bill C-83.

The first is how we define the health issues on which those health care professionals could act. Experts are already saying that there is a concern that some health care issues that may be identified as not essential by a warden or an administrator in a corrections institute would go without the proper treatment and that the arbitrary way in which such a determination could be made is obviously cause for concern.

The other piece is that even if a determination was made by a registered health care professional, or someone that person had delegated, offenders, inmates, who found themselves in solitary confinement, or this new SIU in Bill C-83, and then for a variety of physical and mental health reasons should no longer be in such a situation, would have no recourse. Those findings would be presented to the administrator, and consequently, under certain articles of the bill, would go to the commissioner. However, the reality is that as long as there was no proper oversight, third party or judicial, as has been recommended by folks like Senator Kim Pate, Justice Louise Arbour and Dr. Ivan Zinger, our corrections investigator, the proper protections would not be in place.

I am very concerned.

I would like to return to my Conservative colleague’s speech. Some Canadians listening today are probably asking a very simple question: why should we want to make life easier for certain inmates? How does that help ensure public safety?

Certain points are extremely important, and I mentioned some of them in my speech. To ensure public safety, we need disciplinary measures guaranteeing that correctional officers can properly manage their institutions.

We also need to make sure that the people with problems and, in some cases, serious mental health issues, will not get worse and that, on the contrary, they will receive adequate and appropriate treatment.

We want to prevent recidivism in the case of certain inmates who will be granted parole. We also want to ensure the protection of correctional officers inside the institutions. Providing proper treatment for individuals with serious mental health problems is extremely important.

The concerns in this area expressed by the union representing correctional officers are extremely important. The hon. member who spoke just before me alluded to this in her speech.

I would like to take the time to address some of their concerns. Resources are the main issue. In its statement on Bill C-83 today or yesterday, the union clearly identified this problem, which remains one of its top concerns.

That is a recurring theme with regard to what is required for corrections officers to be able to do their jobs. When we look at the approach taken by the previous government, in 2011-12 alone the legislation adopted by the Conservative government represented an increase in cost of around $250 million for Correctional Service Canada, which was followed by the need to cut nearly $300 million in operating costs from 2012 to 2015, followed by the closure of two penitentiaries, Leclerc Institution and the Kingston Penitentiary. That is a circle that cannot possibly be squared when it comes to ensuring public safety and ensuring that corrections officers have the ability to adequately do their jobs: ensuring safety and security within those institutions and ensuring that the correctional program that has been assigned to a specific offender can be followed through on.

Of course, the problem is extremely worrying to the entire population, but let us be clear. What we want above all from the correctional system is, on the one hand, the assurance of public safety; on the other hand, by applying the disciplinary and punitive measures that exist in the justice system and are essential to rehabilitation, we want to achieve the objectives of treating mental health issues, as well as ensuring public safety, when it comes to inmates who could reintegrate into society and their respective communities.

I would like to get back to Bill C-83. It is all a sham, as I said before, to oversell what is actually a minor change.

Right now, we are told that 22 hours is the threshold for placing someone in administrative segregation. The government is talking about a major change in the number of hours prisoners can spend outside their cells. In fact, relative to current legislation, this change amounts to two hours.

As the executive director of the John Howard Society said in an interview this week, most of the time, these hours are granted at 5:00 a.m. when it is 40 degrees below zero outside. Understandably, the inmate will refuse to come out. Under this bill, such refusal will have consequences.

To conclude, the smokescreen the government has put up to say that it is addressing the concerns of the court, of the United Nations and of the correctional investigator just is not enough. The reality is that we are proceeding with the current regime under a different name. That is not enough to ensure public safety and that corrections officers are attaining the objectives imposed on them by the law but also by constitutional obligations.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Karen McCrimmon Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, Lib.

Madam Speaker, I agree that public safety is the number one objective and that by improving rehabilitative programming within some of our correctional institutions, we will support public safety by having fewer people reoffend and therefore fewer victims. I believe that mental health care services are a key part of that rehabilitative program. What are the member's ideas on how we can make that program for mental health advocacy even stronger?

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC

Madam Speaker, I certainly share my colleague's thoughts and concerns on this issue insofar as addressing mental health concerns is paramount to public safety in particular. However, just before I get to the substance of her question, when we look at this bill and the solutions we propose, the issue here is that the current abusive use of solitary confinement has been proven to exacerbate some of the mental health situations we currently find. I will quote the press release by the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies following the tabling of this bill, which said the following about mental health: “CSC's approach translates behaviours symptomatic of mental health into risks and security concerns.”

Therefore, the solution is simple. It is to adhere to the prescriptions that were offered by the Supreme Court of B.C. and the United Nations, and to put in place strict parameters so that house solitary confinement can be used in our correctional services with a ceiling of 15 days, among other things, including keeping those with serious mental health issues out of solitary confinement and trying to address the disproportionate representation of vulnerable offenders in the correctional system.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Madam Speaker, I understand what my colleague is saying when he talks about a sham and the protection of prisoners as a basic right. All that is entirely legitimate. However, we Conservatives have concerns, which we share with unionized prison guards. Historically, I think that the NDP has always promoted unionism and, more often than not, supported labour demands in our country.

I would like to know what my colleague thinks about the concerns and objections expressed publicly by prison guards, who say that the segregation of certain inmates helps them maintain discipline inside prisons, which is important. It is an exceptional measure, but a measure that is needed in order to remind inmates that there are serious consequences to some of their actions inside the prison walls when they are arrested and incarcerated.

What does my colleague think about the concerns expressed by the Union of Canadian Correctional Officers?

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC

Madam Speaker, my colleague is right. We are extremely proud in the New Democratic caucus to be the workers’ party, founded in large part by unions. Their grievances and concerns will always be our first consideration. That is precisely why, in my speech, I cited the press release issued by the union representing correctional officers. Here is what it says in the first paragraph: “resources needed.”

That is why the NDP protested when the Conservative government closed two prisons in 2012. That is why we protested the nearly $300-million budget cut the Conservative government imposed on Correctional Services between 2012 and 2015. That is why we also protested the fact that, by introducing this bill supposedly intended to enhance public safety, the government has now made it more expensive and more difficult for correctional officers to both ensure safety in institutions, and to properly manage the institutional life and progress of inmates so as to ensure the safety of the public.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his speech, for his work on this bill and for reminding us that, when it comes to this kind of reform, public safety must be our main concern. We also need to talk about mental health. Sometimes there are priorities other than public safety, like the effective administration of prisons, but public safety concerns must be at the top of our list.

What concerns me is this government’s track record with public safety. We have seen it with the cannabis and pardon issues. They changed the language but maintained a system that does not do what it is supposed to. As my colleague said, they are doing the same thing here. They are playing with words, but they are not really changing the system.

How can they make real changes when all they do is play word games?

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his question. Indeed, public safety is always the top priority.

In its decision, the Ontario Superior Court had this to say about administrative segregation:

“no serious question the practice is harmful”.

Moreover, the harmful effects of the practice can manifest in as little as 48 hours. As I said in my speech, they are using a practice that is supposed to ensure public safety but that, in reality, hinders the rehabilitation of certain inmates by making their mental health problems worse. That is what concerns me.

Whether we like it or not, some inmates are released on parole, which is appropriate in a lawful society. However, we expect the problems that led to their incarceration to be treated inside the system before they return to society.

I called it a sham because, despite two court decisions and all the work of civil society, the minister is telling us not to worry and that he is taking care of the problem, while in fact all he is doing is calling the practice something else.

In our opinion, there are not enough substantial changes to believe that this is an appropriate response to the serious concerns about the practice in our correctional system.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Madam Speaker, if the courts have been very clear about the risks of this practice and have prescribed ways of regulating it to diminish those effects, why is that work not represented in this legislation?

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC

Madam Speaker, when two courts have ruled that the current use of solitary confinement is unconstitutional, including the Supreme Court of B.C. in its scathing decision that clearly lays out what the government needs to do, and that has been shamefully appealed afterward, one can ask what exactly the government is trying to do with Bill C-83. Unfortunately, by all appearances, it seems that it wants to bypass these court decisions and what experts, civil society and the UN have said with regard to the use of solitary confinement. That is reason enough to oppose Bill C-83.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Madam Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Brampton Centre.

This initiative goes back quite a long way for me. I want to recognize the former member for Kitchener Centre, the hon. Karen Redman, who raised the issue of Ashley Smith's death and how it affected so many of us, in caucus and outside of caucus, particularly for people like me who are not from Kitchener.

I want to begin by reading the dry coroner's report, which states:

Coroner's Inquest Touching the Death of Ashley Smith.

Aged: 19

Name of Deceased: Ashley Smith

Date and Time of Death: October 19, 2007, 8:10 a.m.

Place of Death: St. Mary's General Hospital in Kitchener

Cause of Death: Ligature strangulation and positional asphyxia

By What Means: homicide

That is the coroner's way of introducing what is in fact a substantive report that forms, in part, the basis for the initiative in Bill C-83.

The newspaper report is a little more graphic. It states:

Smith, 19, originally from Moncton, N.B., was imprisoned at the Grand Valley Institution in Kitchener, Ont., when she died in 2007.

She had tied a piece of cloth around her neck while guards stood outside her cell door and watched. They had been ordered by senior staff not to enter her cell as long as she was breathing.

...

In the last year of Smith's life, [she] was shuffled 17 times between nine institutions in five provinces.

She was clearly a troubled young lady, but there was still a massive failure on the part of the institutions that were responsible for housing her, and ultimately for her death.

The minister of the day, the hon. member for Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, said after receipt of the coroner's report: “My thoughts and prayers go out to Ms. Smith's family. I've asked my officials to review carefully the jury's recommendations”. That was on December 19, 2013. At that time, he was the federal minister of public safety and emergency preparedness.

Here we are, more than 10 years after Ms. Smith's death, looking at a bill that incorporates of many of the recommendations contained in the coroner's report. Clearly, nothing was done from 2007 to 2015, when the previous government ceased to be the government. Three years later, we are now preparing this, in some respects driven by the forces of civil society, but also by the reality of two lawsuits, which at its core means the current system is not sustainable.

Among the recommendations of the coroner's report is that CSC ensure that nursing services are available on site for all inmates; that CSC expand the scope and terms of psychiatric contracts to enable them to perform duties in a meaningful way; that decisions about clinical management of inmates be made by doctors, not CSC staff; that inmates must have access to an independent patient advocate system; that indefinite solitary confinement for prisoners be abolished; and that meetings between prisoners and support staff should not happen through food slots. That was something that happened frequently with Ms. Smith.

We have a long way to go, and I do not pretend to assume that Bill C-83 responds to each and every recommendation. My colleague, the NDP critic for public safety, highlighted some of the real questions that would be properly posed to the minister before a committee. Hopefully, the responses of both the minister and the head of Correctional Service Canada will be helpful in assuaging him about the concerns that are legitimately raised, both in the coroner's report and in the lawsuits that have come up.

The Prime Minister was so concerned about the inadequacies of, for want of a better term, solitary confinement that he actually incorporated it into the mandates of the justice minister and the public safety minister.

The justice minister's mandate says, “recommendations from the inquest into the death of Ashley Smith regarding the restriction of the use of solitary confinement and the treatment of those with mental illness.”

The mandate letter of the public safety minister, states, “address gaps in services to Indigenous Peoples and those with mental illness throughout the criminal justice system”.

In 2013, we had a coroner's inquiry and recommendations coming out of the death of Ashley Smith in 2007. In 2013, the Conservative Party said that its thoughts and prayers went out to the family. The Liberal Party became the Liberal government in 2015. Incorporated into the mandate letters of two senior ministers were the requirement that they deal with these issues. Now we have Bill C-83 on those issues.

In addition, the corrections commissioner has further been mandated to help create a “safe, secure and humane” corrections environment and to address the physical and mental health of inmates, among other priorities. In fact, two weeks ago, the new head of CSC, Anne Kelly, spoke to her mandate. Indeed, members had every opportunity to question her about her mandate and also to see how this part of her mandate might well be fulfilled.

Most significant is that Bill C-83 would put an end to segregation. In Ontario and British Columbia, two constitutional challenges have found that the legislation governing the administrative segregation is contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. My friends in the Conservative Party might wish that to go away. They probably wish the charter would go away. Nevertheless, two of the most significant provinces in the country have said that the way things are being done is not sustainable and is contrary to the Constitution.

It is quite clear that what is motivating in part, beyond the mandates etc., is the reality of the NGO community and these class action lawsuits. The time to act clearly is now.

It is clear that large parts of the administrative segregation provisions of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act will no longer be in existence in two of Canada's most populous provinces. The Conservative Party's position seems to be to just let people sit in the current system anyway. That is neither a very morally nor legally sustainable position.

In my opinion, taking prisoners out of administrative segregation and putting them into a situation is a greater benefit to public safety.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

Madam Speaker, Bill C-83 would eliminate administrative segregation. Instead, people who have to be separated from the mainstream inmate population, generally for safety reasons, would be assigned to a secure intervention unit, SIU. What would be the difference between a new secure intervention unit and administrative segregation?

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Madam Speaker, there is clearly an effort to make the secure intervention unit an environment that allows very troubled prisoners to have more human interaction. There is a mandated time that they will be allowed to interact with other human beings. There is a mandated time that they have to interact with health care professionals. There is a mandated time in which there is a review of their past progress.

At the end of the day, almost everybody gets back on the street. We can wish that they come back onto the street whole, but that is just wishful fantasies. The prison system needs to be mandated to make people as able as possible to reintegrate into our society to maximize public safety.

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Madam Speaker, how will the desired outcomes of the bill be measured and can the Liberals tell Canadians today how much the implementation of the bill will cost?

Corrections and Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Madam Speaker, the measurement of the success of the bill will be over time, and that is absolutely necessary. We currently have a system that is not working, that is constitutionally deficient, that offends the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and that has a little too many Ashley Smiths in the system. The improvement will hopefully be measurable over time. I am sure the head of CCS will have some metrics to share with the committee.

With respect to funding, we are certainly in recovery mode from the previous government. The hundreds of millions of dollars that were cut out of the system are clearly having an impact, and that is extremely regrettable for public safety and for the rehabilitation and well-being of the prisoners.