House of Commons Hansard #341 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was elections.

Topics

Motions in amendmentElections Modernization ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Mr. Speaker, the real issue is getting more people to vote and working within high schools to get people registered when they are eligible to vote. Having a tighter control of all Canadians who are eligible to vote maybe includes the examples the member is presenting, but it also includes our youth and people who have become Canadian citizens recently. We want all people who are eligible to vote to get out to vote and for Elections Canada to help in the promotion of that process.

Motions in amendmentElections Modernization ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

I want to inform the member for Thornhill that he will have about five minutes before we have to break for a vote. When we return to this bill, the hon. member will have another five minutes to continue.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Thornhill.

Motions in amendmentElections Modernization ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON

Mr. Speaker, free and fair elections are the fundamental essence of a democracy. While we know that more than half the world's population today lives under autocratic, dictatorial or otherwise democratically deficient regimes, Canadians, until recently, could be fairly confident that elections here were the gold standard in terms of freeness and fairness.

Let me assure folks who may be watching this debate that Canadian elections are indeed free in the sense that voters can be fully confident that the choices they make on their election ballots, supervised by Elections Canada, remain secret. However, when it comes to fair elections, where, by definition, all parties have an equal right to contest elections without fear, favour or interference and an expectation of a level playing field, voters may not yet be fully aware that the concept has increasingly been compromised in recent years in a variety of unacceptable ways.

Bill C-76, as with Bill C-50 earlier this year, falls far short of addressing the increasing vulnerabilities and threats, domestic and foreign, to the fairness of the federal election coming in 2019. In fact, Bill C-76 follows the Liberal government's pattern in this Parliament of introducing amendments to Canadian institutions and laws, in place for years, that are promoted as improvements but are actually regressive. We saw it in amendments to the Access to Information Act, Bill C-58, a flawed piece of legislation that was specifically condemned as regressive by the former information commissioner. Despite a significant number of tweaks, Bill C-58 remains regressive.

We saw it earlier this year in amendments to the Canada Elections Act, through Bill C-50, that claimed to end, or at least make more transparent, the Liberal Party's notorious cash for access fundraising events. The Liberals have made much of the new protocols, claiming to observe the letter of the amended law. It was passed in June but does not actually come into effect until December. Bill C-50 actually bakes into law a lobbyist cash for access loophole for Liberal fundraising, the notorious Laurier Club lobbyist loophole.

Bill C-76 makes similar false claims of strengthening and protecting the democratic Canadian electoral process. This is a bill that should have been before the House in more substantial form a year ago. It is a bill the Liberals are now rushing, actually stumbling, a more appropriate characterization, into law, with less than a year until the 2019 election. If anyone doubts the clumsiness of the Liberals' development of the bill, the government was forced to propose, and with its majority pass, in committee almost six dozen amendments. That is the definition of incompetence in government.

The Conservative Party, attempting to stiffen the legislation, proposed over 200 amendments. Regrettably, only six gained Liberal support. Major deficiencies remain. They include the use of the voter information card as acceptable voter identification and the Liberal insistence that all non-resident Canadians be allowed to vote, no matter how long they have been away from Canada, no matter whether they have paid taxes in recent years, no matter whether they follow Canadian politics or know the names of political candidates, and no matter whether they ever intend to return to Canada. As many as 2.8 million Canadian citizens are living outside the country.

I know the time is short, and I must say that I have noticed in the last few minutes a familiar stale stink wafting across the floor from the other side of the House. It smells to me as though we are about to hear the dreaded majority government democratic guillotine, the notice of time allocation. By the time the guillotine drops tomorrow, I would expect that barely three members of the opposition will have had a chance to speak to this incredibly flawed bill, Bill C-76.

I know the clock on the wall forces us to move to procedure.

I look forward to concluding my remarks tomorrow.

Motions in amendmentElections Modernization ActGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

The hon. member will have five minutes remaining tomorrow when debate continues.

The House resumed from October 18 consideration of the motion that Bill S-245, an act to declare the Trans Mountain Pipeline Project and related works to be for the general advantage of Canada, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Trans Mountain Pipeline Project ActPrivate Members' Business

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

It being 5:30 p.m., the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion at second reading stage of Bill S-245 under private members' business.

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was negatived on the following division:)

Vote #902

Trans Mountain Pipeline Project ActPrivate Members' Business

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

I declare the motion defeated.

The House resumed from October 19 consideration of Bill C-281, an act to establish a national local food day, as reported (without amendment) from the committee.

National Local Food Day ActPrivate Members' Business

6:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

The House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion at report stage of Bill C-281 under private members' business.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #903

National Local Food Day ActPrivate Members' Business

6:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

I declare the motion carried.

The House resumed from October 22 consideration of the motion.

Postal Banking SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

The House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on Motion No. 166 under private members' business.

The question is as follows. Shall I dispense?

Postal Banking SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Postal Banking SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

[Chair read text of motion to House]

(The House divided on the motion, which was negatived on the following division:)

Vote #904

Postal Banking SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

I declare the motion defeated.

Message from the SenatePrivate Members' Business

6:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

I have the honour to inform the House that a message has been received from the Senate informing this House that the Senate has passed the following bills: Bill S-203, an act to amend the Criminal Code and other acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins); Bill S-238, an act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (importation and exportation of shark fins); and Bill S-240, an act to amend the Criminal Code and the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (trafficking in human organs).

It being 6:30 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business, as listed on today's Order Paper.

The House resumed from May 7 consideration of the motion.

Record Suspension ProgramPrivate Members' Business

6:25 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great honour to rise today to speak to Motion No. 161. I thank the member for Saint John—Rothesay for bringing this motion forward.

The motion before the House today asks the House to direct the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security basically to examine the record suspension program. It wants to do several things. It wants to examine the impacts of a record suspension and its ability to help those with a criminal record to reintegrate into society, look at and examine the impact of criminal record suspension fees and additional costs associated with the application process, especially for low-income applicants, and identify what the appropriate fees and service standards might be for those record suspensions, and also identify improvements to better support applicants for a criminal record suspension.

To cover the topic of criminal record suspension, we have to roll back a little bit and look at what the previous Conservative government did, especially in raising the cost of pardons. At one time a pardon cost $50. That rose to $150 and then climbed to an astonishing $651.

When we look at the corrections system, I have to underline the phrase “corrections system”. Our ultimate goal for the entire judicial criminal system is to have people who have served their time, who have paid their debts to society and demonstrated good behaviour, fully reintegrate into society. It is in society's interest to help those people do that. That means they get a job and are able to travel and to rent an apartment, because we want to reward good behaviour. There are some statistics.

I know there has been some fearmongering in this place about siding with a person who is guilty of a crime over the victims. This has really nothing to do with that because we are talking abut someone who has been released from the prison system. They have paid their debt. They have made their amends to the victim of their crime. Furthermore, when they become eligible for what was once called a pardon, or what we now call a record suspension, they have to wait five years, and in some cases 10 years, to demonstrate to the Parole Board of Canada that they have committed no crimes since and have lived a good life and followed the rules.

By waiting that time, by demonstrating they are willing to make amends for what they once did, they are then eligible to apply for a record suspension and, if granted, the record is set aside. It is not completely wiped out. It basically just sets that aside. It does not get rid of it. However, it can be of great assistance to someone who is trying to reintegrate their lives.

I do not think we should hold people accountable their entire lives for the mistakes they made in their past. I think it is within us to forgive, it is within us to recognize someone who has taken responsibility for the crime they have committed, who has paid their debt and who has demonstrated a sincere willingness to move on and to try to become a better person.

Also, according to the Parole Board of Canada, 96% of pardoned Canadians never reoffend and are less likely to commit a crime than the average Canadian. This statistic was known prior to the previous Conservative government greatly restricting Canadians' access to pardons.

Let me talk about the $651 fee. I know the member for Saint John—Rothesay talked about it in his speech back in May. A lot of people in communities across this country suffer from debilitating poverty. They are looking at meeting their day-to-day necessities, trying to keep a roof over their head and to know where their next meal will come from, and some of them do have criminal records. They either have suffered from trauma in their past, which has led them to commit crimes, or they suffer from substance abuse, which unfortunately still is addressed with a criminalized approach in this country. It is an unfortunate fact that there are countries around the world like Portugal where a decriminalized approach for the possession of small amounts of drugs has met with great success, yet we cannot take that evidence and apply it here in Canada.

Nevertheless, the point I am trying to make is that people who would greatly benefit from accessing a record suspension are often people who are on the lowest rungs of our society. They are already suffering so much, and to put a $651 barrier in front of them is just cruel and unusual punishment in my regard. It seems to me like we are kicking someone who is already down.

Six hundred and fifty-one dollars may not sound like a lot of money, but to a person living on social assistance who needs rental supplements and needs to visit the food bank, $651 is an absolute fortune. If they are ever able to acquire such a sum, they are certainly not going to spend it on trying to get a record suspension. It is going to go to the necessities of life. When the record suspension program went from $50 to $150 and then up to $651, I really felt that was just striking people when they were already at their worst.

The government has conducted some studies into the record suspension program. It has sought advice from Canadians. It is now well past its third year in its mandate, and still the public safety minister has yet to bring any real reforms to the record suspension program. What I want to know, and I hope the member for Saint John—Rothesay will answer this when he closes the debate on this motion, is whether the Liberals are really all the way behind this. The member who brought forward this motion sits in caucus with the public safety minister. Surely he has had the opportunity to bring this topic up with the public safety minister to discuss it, and yet we still see no action from the Liberal cabinet.

Instead, it is left to a member of the Liberal backbench to bring forward a motion to instruct the public safety committee to conduct a study. That leads me to my next point. First of all, I am wondering whether the Liberal government is really serious about moving ahead with reforms. Second, why is this House spending a couple of hours debating a motion of instruction when there are five Liberals who sit on the public safety committee who could very well have brought this motion forward then and there? It just seems to me that this is a motion that is not very necessary for this House to be deliberating on when the Liberal members of the public safety committee could very well have taken the initiative and done it, if they were serious about actually implementing the reforms.

The clock is running on this Parliament. We are left with about a year until the 2019 election. It makes me wonder, the Liberals being the masters of the long promise, whether we are actually going to see meaningful reform in the record suspension program within the timeline of this Parliament.

I see my time is running out, but I want to say that I am going to support this motion. The reasoning behind it is genuine and it reflects a desire on the part of the member to see some actual change. I know he talked very passionately in his speech about the troubles his constituents are going through. However, I question whether the Liberal cabinet is fully behind this, given its lack of action on the program so far. I question whether this might have been better served at the public safety committee.

I really do think that it is a pretty cumbersome application process that is costly. It does not allow those in the lowest rungs of society who have criminal records an easy process for getting forward in life. It is within our society's interest to reward those who have demonstrated good behaviour and a dedicated willingness to reform their ways.

Also, the public safety minister did launch a consultation, and overwhelmingly, the responses by Canadians favoured the record suspension fee going down. As well, for certain offences, low-key offences that were non-violent, maybe drug-related, they favoured automatic expungement after a certain amount of time if that person has demonstrated a willingness to rejoin society. I will end by saying that I will support this motion, and I thank the House for the opportunity to lend my voice to it.

Record Suspension ProgramPrivate Members' Business

6:35 p.m.

Sherry Romanado Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Seniors, Lib.

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Saint John—Rothesay for his motion. I support his proposal for the Standing Committee on Public Safety to undertake a study of the record suspension program, formerly known as the pardons program. Specifically, the committee would examine the impact pardons have on people with criminal records who have lived crime-free after serving their sentence. It would also look at the fee required to apply for a criminal record suspension and the potential impact on employment opportunities for people with criminal records, and it would identify ways to improve the system.

I agree with my colleague that the committee's study is essential to understanding the current rehabilitation process. This will be an opportunity for all stakeholders to come together to hear from experts and listen to former offenders who want to fully contribute to society. The additional information will help us get a clear picture of the situation, allowing us to act fairly and appropriately.

When past offenders have paid their debt to society and are sincerely seeking to reintegrate into our community, it is important in the interests of public safety to ensure that they can be productive members of society. The more obstacles we create, the less likely they are in life to succeed. The more obstacles we create, the less safe our communities become. Past offenders who are unable to find work are much more likely to interact with the criminal justice system again.

The Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness has been undertaking a review of the pardons program. This review included examining research on the links between the time an individual spends crime-free and the rates of reoffending, as well as research demonstrating that criminal records can be barriers to reintegration, particularly employment.

As members know, this review of the rehabilitation process also stems from public consultations on the Criminal Records Act and the cost of getting a record suspended.

Our government started this review process to fulfill our commitment to Canadians to look at the changes the previous government made to the criminal justice system.

As my colleagues have already done, I want to stress the importance of rehabilitation as a key step towards successful reintegration into society.

Because of the long wait times and significant costs associated with record suspensions, former offenders face real challenges finding work, as they struggle to find their place in society again.

These challenges also make it difficult to find adequate housing. They make it harder for former offenders to volunteer and give back to the community and limit opportunities to travel abroad. As members of Parliament, we are certainly familiar with how many jobs require travel outside the country. I have heard these criticisms many times.

In my riding of Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, some constituents have come to my office to get help submitting their application to the record suspension program. They shared with me the difficulties they face.

These are people who have reformed and turned their lives around. They are mothers and fathers who need to work and who want to contribute to our society without feeling hounded by their employers or those who vouch for them. They are young adults who made mistakes and who have shown good will.

We must encourage them to become our community leaders and to not turn their backs on society. Our system must foster, not prevent, the social reintegration of those individuals who have demonstrated that they are law-abiding citizens.

Canadians agree that the situation is problematic. The consultations, led by the Department of Public Safety, received about 1,200 online submissions and input from over 70 stakeholders. A further consultation on fees, led by the Parole Board of Canada, received about 1,600 responses.

Here are some of the key findings from both consultations: 96% of participants indicated that the record suspension application fee is too high and that the current waiting periods are too long; the application process is unnecessarily complex; and the purpose of the program should be to help people move forward, making it easier for them to gain employment, and not be a barrier.

A study of the record suspension program by the standing committee would complement the work already undertaken by the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness.

Law-abiding people with criminal records do not want their records removed so they can slip under the radar; they want them removed so they can be productive members of society, starting with obtaining a job. Having a criminal record can be a major barrier to making that transition.

As the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness has said, the current user fee of $631 appears to be punitive.

Moreover, the record suspension fees and waiting periods are particularly onerous for women. We know that, in 2011, Canadian women earned almost $14,000 less than Canadian men, plus they paid for most family and household expenses. Such figures are all the more alarming considering that people with a record often earn less than the Canadian average.

Barriers to record suspension also have a disproportionate impact on visible minorities, especially indigenous people. Compared to the rest of the Canadian population, indigenous people already face more barriers to housing and employment. That goes double for those with a record, not to mention that indigenous individuals often earn less income than the average Canadian.

Furthermore, although indigenous people account for 3% of the Canadian population, they make up more than a quarter of the admissions to federal correctional institutions. I should also note that one-third of the women in federal penitentiaries are indigenous.

Currently, approximately one out of 10 Canadians has a criminal record. That is 3.8 million people. Since 1970, when the pardon program began, there have been over 500,000 pardons or record suspensions. According to the Parole Board, more than 95% of them remain in effect. In other words, the vast majority of people who receive pardons go on to lead crime-free lives.

However, since the high user fee and longer wait periods were implemented following changes in 2010 and 2012, applications for pardons have decreased by 61%, from 32,000 to 12,400. That is a problem for all of us, because we are all safer and better off when people who have served their time and are living as law-abiding members of society are able to fully reintegrate into their communities.

As the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness has stated:

Our priority is to protect Canadians, and we will do that by implementing evidence-based criminal justice policies that support rehabilitation, prevent crime and victimization, and keep our communities safe.

Once again, I would like to thank the member for Saint John—Rothesay for this motion, and I am proud to support his initiative. If this motion is adopted, I sincerely believe that the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security will conduct a careful and comprehensive study of the record suspension program. The results of that study will enable us to base future recommendations on carefully vetted, pertinent information. It is our duty to work together to better understand the programs within the pardon system so we can help people reintegrate and keep everyone safe.

Record Suspension ProgramPrivate Members' Business

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to speak to Motion No. 161, which seeks a review of the record suspension program as amended in Bill C-10, the Safe Streets and Communities Act, enacted by the previous Conservative government. I would like to thank the member for Saint John—Rothesay for introducing the motion and providing me the opportunity to recall some of the excellent work done in the realm of justice and law and order by the previous government.

The Safe Streets and Communities Act introduced many important and necessary changes to how our criminal justice system worked and focused on protecting victims of crime. The bill was thoroughly vetted, with over 200 hours of debate between committee and the House. By the time Bill C-10 was introduced, Conservatives had done much to reform the justice system. We passed mandatory minimum sentences for gang-related murders and drive-by shootings. We eliminated the shameful practice of giving two-for-one credit for time served in pretrial custody. We strengthened the national sex offender registry and passed legislation ensuring that drug dealers were not let out of prison after serving a mere one-sixth of their sentences, not to mention the outstanding track record our government had on crime prevention.

Bill C-10, as just one of the over 25 bills we passed to reform our Justice system, continued in the tradition of those Conservative measures to crack down on crime by legislating many new and improved measures. Some of those measures included increasing the penalties for sexual offences against children. lt targeted organized drug crime by toughening sentences for narcotics trafficking. lt protected foreign workers who were at risk of becoming victims of human trafficking or exploitation. Notably, Bill C-10 enacted the Justice for Victims of Terrorism Act, which allowed the victims of terror attacks to sue both the individual responsible and those who supported that individual. lt granted broader leeway for the Minister of Public Safety to decide if someone who committed crimes overseas, including acts of terror, should be allowed to come back to Canada.

These are points of particular interest now as a comparison to the Liberal government's record on terrorists, their victims and the victims of crime overall. The Liberal government has sought to bring ISIS fighters back into Canada. The Liberals willingly wrote a cheque for $10.5 million to convicted terrorist Omar Khadr. Where is the respect for the victims of terrorist attacks? Where is the respect for their families, for Tabitha Speer?

Compare and contrast the record of the previous Conservative government to the Liberal government on any of these issues and it quickly becomes clear that the previous Conservative government was focused squarely on protecting the rights of victims, while the Liberal government is focused on protecting the rights of criminals. I understand this is a bold statement to make, but I have a hard time seeing the changes the government is making to our justice system in any other way. While the previous Conservative government ensured that criminals faced the consequences of their actions, the Liberal government has introduced Bill C-75, a bill that opens the door to shockingly lenient sentences for crimes such as abducting children, advocating genocide, impaired driving causing bodily harm and even engaging in terrorist activities.

I am bringing these issues into focus in this debate today to make a point. The Liberal government has an appalling track record on this file. It has continually weakened the protections for victims of crime, while making life easier for criminals. I believe it is crucial to remember the government's record while discussing the question underlined in the motion.

There are certain individuals who would be greatly pleased to use this motion as an opportunity to call for the wholesale repeal of Bill C-10. Engaging in that discussion would be a mistake. I am always willing to discuss and debate the merits of particular and fine points of the legislative track record of our former government; however, Bill C-10 was clearly a step in the right direction in that it placed the emphasis on the role of the victim in our justice system and ensured that criminals faced the consequences for their actions.

Let me be clear. I believe it is important to review the impacts of changes to a law. ln fact, I welcome reviews of legislation, as too often governments of all stripes pass laws with the very best of intentions, which may result in an end very different than what the government had in mind.

Given the bill became law nearly six years ago, it may be a good idea to ensure that the changes made to the record suspension program are accomplishing that which they were intended to do. ln fact, my hon. colleague for Saint John—Rothesay states it very clearly in the early part of the motion before us today, which reads:

That the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security be instructed to undertake a study of the Record Suspension Program to: (a) examine the impact of a record suspension to help those with a criminal record reintegrate into society;

There is the line “reintegrate into society”.

The ideal outcome of a prison sentence is not merely for offenders to face the consequences of their bad actions, but for them to reform into productive members of society. However, there must be a clear litmus test to ensure offenders have indeed reformed their ways.

We have a system of criminal records to protect citizens from the possibility of becoming unwitting victims of a previous offender. However, in a just society, a society founded on Judeo-Christian principles, there ought to be an opportunity for redemption. This is why the record suspension program exists, to give another chance to those who have proven themselves reformed.

ln order to access this program, however, the litmus test I alluded to earlier must be met. Bill C-10 set the standard as 10 years lived crime-free for serious crimes or five years for summary offences. lt also disqualified those who proved themselves too dangerous, by including those convicted of sexual offenses against children and those convicted of three indictable offences, from ever being eligible to apply. Bill C-10 ensured that offenders would pay their own way through this system and increased the record suspension application fee to reflect that belief.

ln crafting the bill, the previous government believed that this standard would best protect the community, respect the rights of victims and provide those who had proven themselves deserving a second opportunity. Now, perhaps enough time has passed for the results of the these changes to be reviewed.

I am sure that all of us in this place wish to ensure that the process of the record suspension program is not hindering long-rehabilitated individuals from becoming productive members of society. However, let me again state the importance of retaining the focus on this aspect of Bill C-10. The Safe Streets and Communities Act placed the focus squarely on the rights of victims.

Listening to those who wish to repeal the bill would be a step backward for our justice system. I remain cautiously optimistic that the motion before us today will provide the opportunity to further strengthen our justice system.

Bill C-76—Notice of time allocation motionElections Modernization ActPrivate Members' Business

6:55 p.m.

Waterloo Ontario

Liberal

Bardish Chagger LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, an agreement could not be reached under the provisions of Standing Order 78(1) or 78(2) with respect to the report stage and third reading stage of Bill C-76, an act to amend the Canada Elections Act and other acts and to make certain consequential amendments.

Under the provisions of Standing Order 78(3), I give notice that a minister of the Crown will propose at the next sitting a motion to allot a specific number of days or hours for the consideration and disposal of proceedings at those stages.

The House resumed consideration of the motion.