House of Commons Hansard #359 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was jurors.

Topics

Bill C-86—Time Allocation MotionBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Madam Speaker, here we are again with an 800-plus page budget implementation act, and who is answering the questions? It is not the Minister of Finance. It is the Minister of Employment. Now she brags that there have been 15 hours of debate on a massive budget implementation bill, yet here is the Minister of Employment answering the questions. Perhaps it is because she is used to this undemocratic process. After all, this is the minister who forced Bill C-89 through the House with limited debate. In the other place, the unelected place, she allowed a massive study and allowed them to come in as witnesses. This is the same minister who took away the right to a secret ballot for unionization, yet here is the Minister of Employment answering questions, because the Minister of Finance will not.

Will she answer one simple question? When will the budget be balanced?

Bill C-86—Time Allocation MotionBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Madam Speaker, as tempting as it is for me to talk about the record of the member opposite's party in its relationship with organized labour, I will pass on that temptation and stay focused on our incredible record of ensuring prosperity for every Canadian in this country.

We were elected through the vision of Canadians who saw a different way. For over a decade, the previous government led austerity budgets and invested in the wrong things. This led to the stagnation of growth, leading to a loss of hope by Canadians that there would be a bright future for themselves and for their children. We have reversed that. We see one of the fastest growing economies in the G7. We see the lowest unemployment record in 40 years.

As the Minister of Employment, it is my privilege to meet with employer groups all across this country. One of the things they tell me they need most profoundly is new talent, and that is because we have one of the highest records of employment since the forties. Canadians are working at full capacity.

We are proud of our record. We are ensuring that Canadians have the money they need to raise their children, whether it is through the Canada child benefit or the middle-class tax cuts, which will result in an average of $2,000 more per couple across this country.

When Canadians feel confident in the economy, they invest in themselves, they invest in their communities and they help grow our economy.

Bill C-86—Time Allocation MotionBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith the question necessary to dispose of the motion now before the House.

The question is as follows. Shall I dispense?

Bill C-86—Time Allocation MotionBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

10:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Bill C-86—Time Allocation MotionBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

[Chair read text of motion to House]

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Bill C-86—Time Allocation MotionBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

10:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Bill C-86—Time Allocation MotionBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Bill C-86—Time Allocation MotionBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

10:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Bill C-86—Time Allocation MotionBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

All those opposed will please say nay.

Bill C-86—Time Allocation MotionBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

10:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Bill C-86—Time Allocation MotionBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

In my opinion the nays have it.

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #951

Budget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

I declare the motion carried.

Order. I wish to inform the House that because of the proceedings on the time allocation motion, Government Orders will be extended by 30 minutes.

The House resumed from November 26 consideration of Bill C-86, A second Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 27, 2018 and other measures, as reported (with amendments) from the committee, and of the motions in Group No. 1.

Report stageBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL

Mr. Speaker, it is exciting to be here today to support the budget implementation bill and specifically the legislation establishing the college of patent agents and trademark agents. This is at subdivision D of division 7 of part 4 of the budget implementation bill.

This is an important element of the government's IP strategy. Taken as a whole, that strategy will ensure that Canada's intellectual property regime is modern and robust, and that it supports Canadian innovations in the 21st century.

Patent and trademark agents are a key component of the innovation ecosystem, as they help inventors to secure exclusive IP rights. I was the only Newfoundlander who was a patent agent at the time of my election. Although I am not practising in that area of law now, I have some pretty good information regarding the need for a college of patent agents and a college of trademark agents.

Given the rising importance of IP in the innovation economy and the central role of patent and trademark agents, it is time to have a professional oversight body responsible for maintaining the high standards that are expected of trusted advisers. As a bonus, this would address long-standing gaps in the current framework for regulatory oversight, which previously lacked clarity and transparency and was without a binding code of professional conduct. Given the importance of the profession, good safeguards here are needed to ensure that agents do the jobs they do well and have the trust of their clients and of Canadians more broadly.

While there is no evidence suggesting a large problem with agent conduct, the need for modernization is imperative now that communications with IP agents are protected by statutory privilege in the same way as solicitor-client advice. This is an extraordinary right that requires ethical guidelines to prevent its abuse.

The college of patent agents and trademark agents act would establish an independent regulator, specifically a college, for the professional oversight of IP agents in the public interest. The college would administer a licensing system to ensure that only qualified professionals are authorized to provide agent services. As an independent regulator, it would also be responsible for enforcing a code of professional conduct to ensure that IP agents continue to deliver high-quality advice.

The college would also be responsible for implementing requirements for continuing professional development to ensure that agents stay informed of the ever-evolving IP practice landscape. Ultimately, these measures would raise the bar of IP professional services in Canada.

The college would have an investigations committee to receive complaints and conduct investigations into whether or not a licensee has committed professional misconduct or been incompetent. A separate disciplinary committee would have the authority to impose disciplinary measures if it is decided that a licensee has in fact committed professional misconduct or been incompetent.

Finally, this bill also creates new offences for claiming to be a patent agent or a trademark agent, or for the unauthorized representation of another person before the Canadian patent office or the office of the registrar of trademarks. These offences are intended to serve an important consumer protection function to ensure that innovators are receiving representation from qualified, licensed agents.

I would like now to speak about the important features that have been built into the legislation to ensure that the regulation is undertaken within the public interest and with the public interest as the priority.

Careful consideration was given to ensuring that the legislation supported the public interest in a competitive marketplace of well-qualified and professional IP agents. For example, the college would be governed by a board of directors that includes public interest representatives appointed by the minister, and patent and trademark agent representatives elected by members of the college itself.

Further measures directed toward safeguarding the public interest include providing the minister with the authority to review the board's activities and, if necessary, to direct the board to undertake any action to ensure regulation in the public interest. Another measure requires the board to report to Parliament annually on its activities.

The framework for the legislation takes into account comments from stakeholders over the course of several public consultations. During these consultations, risks were identified relating to the fact that many IP agents are also lawyers. Concerns were expressed about dual regulation, that is that lawyers and agents would be subject to two potentially conflicting regulatory schemes.

In recognition of this potential for overlap, the legislation would ensure minimal regulatory conflict for lawyers who may also be agents. In addition, where appropriate, the college's investigations committee would be authorized to refer a complaint to another body that has the duty to regulate another profession, for example a law society for a lawyer.

In fact, in my experience as someone who has been regulated as an engineer, regulated as a lawyer in three different jurisdictions, and regulated as a patent agent and a trademark agent in two different countries, I appreciate the concern that might exist about overrepresentation or over-regulation, as well as the concern that might be raised by conflicts in ethical obligations.

Whereas a lawyer, for instance, may have an ethical obligation to maintain strict solicitor-client privilege, an engineer is in fact required to put the public interest ahead of that interest. Therefore, it is important to note that there can be proper and reasonable conflicts in the ethics associated with different professions.

Patent agents are there to obtain the most protection possible for their clients' inventions or the broadest scope of trademark protection for their brands. Sometimes that might conflict with another ethical obligation that might apply in a different fashion to a lawyer or an engineer.

Balancing these is important and means making sure that when patent agents wear their patent agent hats, they are regulated as patent agents, and when they wear their lawyer hats they are regulated as lawyers, and when they wear their engineer hats they are regulated as engineers. This legislation allows for that nuanced differentiation.

We also heard during consultations that specific care must be taken to safeguard privileged information. Significant measures must be in place to ensure the appropriate handling and safeguarding of privileged information and to strictly control access to such information. To do so, the legislation draws upon safeguards and processes similar to those used by provincial law societies in order to safeguard privileged information in the investigation of college members.

More specifically, privileged information can only be used for the purpose of regulating agents. Disclosing privileged information to the college will not be considered a waiver of the privilege, and the privilege will be preserved for other purposes. Those purposes could be some type of lawsuit before the courts on solicitor-client privilege or the maintenance of the confidentiality of an inventor's right to an invention for having filed before first being disclosed to the public, for instance.

The act places strict obligations on employees and directors of the college, preventing them from disclosing privileged information, and further clarifies that the government cannot use its oversight authority to access privileged information. There is a strict process of court oversight to access and contest access to solicitor-client privileged information. These were of importance to the patent bar in the development of the legislation.

From my perspective, as someone who went through the process of becoming a patent agent, I can attest to the fact that an additional element is brought to bear on a regulated profession. Sometimes professions can be regulated in such a manner as to encourage more people to join the profession, and sometimes they can be regulated in a fashion that prevents new people from entering the profession.

The fact that the United States has 100 times as many patent agents or practitioners as Canada does with only 10 times the population demonstrates that our regime for licensing patent agents has become too restrictive.

The creation of an independent college will have the extra function of aligning the college's role of growing the profession with the public's interest in having more patent agents available to help inventors spur the creation of these assets. Patent and IP assets simply do not exist if they are not filed and registered, and if professional advice is not brought to bear.

It is not like in copyright, where people create a new work and then own the rights to that work. In the patent and trademark space, it is the professionals who assist the creators or the brand makers in protecting, acquiring and preserving those rights, both at home and abroad. If that work is not done, there is no asset to protect. Canada needs probably 10 times more patent and trademark agents than it currently has in order to have the same level of asset creation as the United States. This is important in the 21st-century economy.

In conclusion, the college of patent agents and trademark agents will be responsive to stakeholder input and follow international best practices in professional regulation. Care was taken with the legislation to establish well-structured bodies to ensure proper independent oversight, with an option for the government to intervene only if necessary. The checks and balances included in the legislation will ensure regulation in the public interest.

As a whole, I would encourage all members to support the budget implementation act, including this subdivision of part 7.

Report stageBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Celina Caesar-Chavannes Liberal Whitby, ON

Madam Speaker, in his support of Bill C-86, my hon. colleague talked about IP and IP strategy. As a member of the industry committee, I can attest that it really is important to understand that a comprehensive IP strategy helps businesses not just to protect their IP on the home front, but to grow and succeed and then be able to export to international markets.

I am wondering if my hon. colleague can also talk about what he is hearing from small businesses in his riding about this strategy, its comprehensiveness, the fact that it would include education and the ability to grow and prosper, and how it has impacted businesses in his riding.

Report stageBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL

Madam Speaker, I really appreciate the work of the industry committee members. They have a lot of very interesting files. With my professional background, I think I would probably bring too much bias to that committee. I do read their reports with a lot of great interest. It is nice to see what a fresh perspective brings to those topics that are close to my heart.

I know that in Newfoundland and Labrador, when I was the only patent agent there, it was very difficult for me. I had to travel to get the support I needed to maintain my professional credentials. I lacked the network of local folks to bounce ideas off of. It really is important to have a true bar.

The creation of an independent college would help grow the profession and result in more patent agents in small communities, like Newfoundland and Labrador, and the markets in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, so that they could have the proper coordinated, long-term professional development that would benefit their clients. There are plenty of innovative companies in Newfoundland and Labrador that seek professional services from Boston, California, Montreal or Alberta, depending on their industries.

The creation of a college would allow better local representation for these folks and growth of our industry.

Report stageBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC

Madam Speaker, I listened intently to my colleague, and I appreciated his comments.

However, the member is defending a budget that is indefensible. Canadians did vote for a change in 2015. However, what the government promised and what it is delivering are very different. The government promised to balance the budget. Now the budget before us is not even close to being balanced.

Could the member tell us when the government will balance the budget?

Report stageBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL

Madam Speaker, that is really quite an ideological question, a “direction of the country” question that goes to what the appropriate fiscal anchors are that should guide our development, borrowing and spending practices.

As someone who has knocked on just over 10,000 doors and got to speak to just over 4,000 folks at the door, I know that my commitment to them was that we would focus on growing the economy for the middle class, and that if that meant deficit spending to do it, we would be guided by the principle that we would grow the economy more than the deficit, so that in the long term the deficit would shrink as a percentage of the economy. That is exactly what we have done.

The proof is in the pudding. Canada's growth has led the G7 for much of our mandate. I think we are now in second place. The debt-to-GDP ratio has fallen to the lowest among the G7. That allows us the economic resilience to put in place new programs to help the folks in Oshawa respond to crises, to create supercluster funds and to do things that will create the jobs of the future.

With respect to the portion of the bill that I am speaking to, I will say that it is cost-neutral for the government. The college will pay for itself through its fees to its members.

Report stageBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Madam Speaker, when the member was knocking on those doors, did he mention that the government would pass on a debt to every many, woman and child in his riding of at least $600 per year? If he even mentioned that to them, what sort of reaction might the member have gotten?

It is abysmal that the government keeps passing on this massive debt to future generations who will have to pay it back.

Report stageBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL

Madam Speaker, when I speak to people at the door about the complicated issue of the debt-to-GDP ratio, I say to them, “Listen, yes, you are going to have debt that will be $600 more, but the growth in the economy will mean there will be closer to $2,000 more on average in the pockets of working families.” They understand that.

We have to spend money to make money. Canadians think we are growing the economy, and they appreciate that.

Report stageBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Celina Caesar-Chavannes Liberal Whitby, ON

Madam Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to talk to Bill C-86. Since we came into government, we have really focused on the middle class and those working hard to join it. This legislation would help us to continue along that trajectory, continue to make Canada one of the fastest growing economies in the G7 and continue to help ensure that Canadian companies are able to create good middle-class jobs. In fact, they have been able to create over half a million jobs. Our government created the conditions with investments to ensure that these companies and Canadians would be able to grow and prosper. It has done so through our trade and other investments in education and skills training, and will continue along that path.

However, I want to focus my comments today on three specific points that I will ground within the sustainable development goals. Earlier this year, I was with the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development in New York to present our voluntary statement to the United Nations on the sustainable development goals. Canada has a role to play to ensure that we reach those 169 targets and 17 goals by 2030. We are well on track to do that. We have been doing it from day one.

I am going to focus on particular components of the sustainable development goals emphasized through this budget. The first is goal 5, one that is really important to my heart. It has to do with gender and ensuring that we have gender equality in our country. As we are in the midst of 16 days of activism against gender-based violence, I want to ensure that my actions matter. Speaking to this particular legislation, Bill C-86, allows me to do that.

What we have in front of us are a number of different initiatives that would help to ensure we have gender equality in Canada. Our government has legislated gender budgeting, made Status of Women a full department and enacted proactive pay equity legislation.

With regard to Status of Women becoming a full department, the future department of women and gender equality, it is nice to have the word “wage” included in the title when we are introducing proactive pay legislation. When we think about the fact that indigenous women, women of colour, women with disabilities, religious individuals, people with different sexual orientations and women who are too old or too young face disproportionate negative impacts and barriers in their workplaces and communities, it is important that we be sensitive. When we are enacting legislation, it is also important to look at how our legislation impacts individuals differently. By legislating gender budgeting and ensuring increased participation of women, especially the ones who are most vulnerable, we are working toward supporting women and girls and reducing the gender wage gap. We are making sure that our country is prosperous for everyone.

The current gap of around 20¢ per dollar of earnings between what men and women make grows proportionately bigger when we think about some of these vulnerable communities or look at intersectionality. When there are different intersecting identities, we see that the gap between men and women gets larger, so ensuring that our country is prosperous for everyone is really important.

As I mentioned, having a full department dedicated to the status of women, the women and gender equality department, is really important. It will have an expanded mandate for gender equality, including sexual orientation, gender identity and expression, and for the promotion of a greater understanding of gender diversity, often through what is known as a gender-based analysis plus.

We need to ensure that we have the capacity to leverage movements like #MeToo and Time’s Up and ensure that every woman in this country feels that she has a place and is valued and respected. The initiatives we have taken so far with regard to gender will ensure that this happens.

Continuing with my theme of the sustainable development goals, goal 8 speaks to decent work and economic growth; goal 9, industry, innovation and infrastructure; goal 10, reducing inequalities; goal 11, sustainable cities and communities; and goal 16, peace, justice and strong institutions. To tie up all of those goals is really the work that we are doing with stakeholders in the charitable sector.

I worked in research before I came into politics. I owned a research management company, but I worked with organizations like Neurological Health Charities Canada, the Alzheimer Society of Canada, Parkinson Canada, Epilepsy Durham and many organizations in my riding like Sunrise Youth Group in Whitby or the Charles H. Best Diabetes Centre, of which Kenadie, a sixth grade student, is a very strong champion. She came to see me in Ottawa last year.

These charitable organizations are the foundation on which our middle class rests. They are the ones that do a lot of hard work to ensure that we are able to continue to function as a society. For example, the Sunrise Youth Group supports adult individuals with developmental handicaps so that their parents can go to work. This is what our charitable sector does and it really is a strong part of our society.

In strengthening that role of our charitable sector, we are ensuring that charities are able to do the work they want to do on behalf of Canadians. We are removing the limits to their political activities, allowing charities to participate fully in policy development. They could provide feedback on legislation and legislative proposals. We are providing a permanent advisory committee on the charitable sector.

The charitable sector is one of the sectors that contribute to our economy. It can generate up to $2 billion in economic activity and create as many as 100,000 jobs. The charitable sector is growing, is vital, and innovative. It does a lot with very little and we need to support it. Our government will be providing supports and resources of up to $750 million over the next 10 years to support and establish a social finance fund. When we look to our charitable organizations to provide support for our families, we need to support them. That is what we are doing here in this budget implementation act.

The last things I want to speak to are goal 1, no poverty; goal 2, zero hunger; and goal 3, good health and well-being. When we look at reducing poverty and ensuring that people have the capacity to live a full life and contribute to our economy, we need to look holistically at the social determinants of health to ensure that we help create the conditions that allow Canadians to live their best lives possible. With our poverty reduction strategy, programs like the Canada child benefit, our national housing strategy, enhancing seniors benefits, the Canada workers benefit, we have lifted 650,000 Canadians out of poverty, including 300,000 children.

We are developing our first national poverty reduction strategy and establishing for the first time ever an official poverty alliance. We are looking holistically at ensuring that Canadians of all stripes will be able to have a good quality of life. Since October 2015, we have hit the ground running to ensure that this happens in a comprehensive, holistic way. Not only are we going to be able to achieve our sustainable development goals and the agenda 2030, but we are doing it here in Canada. We are taking leadership by ensuring that everyone has a fair chance to succeed.

Report stageBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

Madam Speaker, it is disturbing to see how far the Liberals have led us into increasing debt, despite the fact that they promised in their election campaign that by now we would be coming back to balance. That is far from the truth. In fact, the cost of interest alone in 2017-18 was $23.9 billion. By 2021-22, the cost will be $39 billion. That is a $15-billion increase in interest costs alone. That has nothing to do with paying down the debt. It will cost an extra $15 billion to pay the interest on our debt, which is rising every year because of increased deficits as a result of the government's spending. This is in spite of the fact that it promised a very small deficit and promised to bring us back to balance by now.

My question is simple. Could that extra $15 billion we are spending on interest not be put to better use to provide, for example, great palliative care for Canadians?

Report stageBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Celina Caesar-Chavannes Liberal Whitby, ON

Madam Speaker, we are keeping our debt-to-GDP ratio low. The investments we have made to date have ensured that we have created the conditions in this country that have allowed our small to medium-sized businesses to create over 500,000 jobs. We have invested in technology and skills training. We have invested in public transit in Durham region, the largest investment in public transit we have ever seen, which allows us to reduce our carbon footprint as well.

We have made investments to ensure that Canadians have a bit more in their pockets. Over the next year, an average family of four will have $2,000 more in its pocket to spend on the things they find are necessary.

We are reducing poverty, we are investing in communities and we are helping to grow a strong Canada, and that is what Canadians find important.

Report stageBudget Implementation Act, 2018, No. 2Government Orders

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Georgina Jolibois NDP Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Madam Speaker, before I ask my question, I want to clarify some points. One of the recent reports that came out in Canada about poverty indicated that the top two areas in Canada affected by child poverty are northern Saskatchewan and northern Manitoba. My experiences in northern Saskatchewan have shown that all levels of government, whether the federal Conservatives or Liberals or governments at the provincial level, are way out of touch. They ignore and neglect northern Saskatchewan and possibly northern Manitoba as well.

I am curious as to what this poverty reduction plan looks like. I want to believe that it is suitable for northern Saskatchewan and northern Manitoba. Can the government clearly explain? I do not want to hear about first nation involvement. I want to hear specifically about ridings like mine, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, with a specific population of northerners that are first nations, Métis, farming communities and rural municipalities. Can the Liberal government clarify this point?