House of Commons Hansard #303 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was environment.

Topics

Motion that debate be not further adjournedExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Bardish Chagger Liberal Waterloo, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to assure my colleague across the aisle that I understand full well. I saw the games that the opposition decided to play last week. We on this side of the House want to work together better so we can have more debates.

This motion would extend the hours and allow more time for debate. There have been occasions when I have provided notice of time allocation, but I do not need to move time allocation. I would encourage members of the opposition to share with us how much time is needed for debate. In that way, we can move forward.

Something that was clear from Canadians is that they want us to work better together. I hope the member opposite understands that there is a difference between giving notice of time allocation and moving time allocation.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am privileged to stand up in the House again to respond to the government House leader.

Members may recall that when the Liberals were elected, their leader, the Prime Minister, promised that he was going to “usher in a new era of openness and transparency”. Do members remember that promise? It was one of hundreds of promises he made that he has now broken.

Now we see this playing out at committee. The government House leader tried to suggest that somehow we move motions at committee to improve legislation, to make it better for Canadians, and then, when that legislation comes to the House, we vote it down.

Here is what happens. The Liberals will cherry-pick one of our motions to improve legislation at the committee and vote in favour of it, but there are many others that are required to improve the legislation to a point where the opposition in the House can actually approve it.

What do the Liberals do? They slam the door shut. They cut down debate at committee. With over 100 amendments left to go on Bill C-69, they said, “That is it. We are simply going to vote on them without any debate or any input from government officials.” That is the way the government conducts its business.

It is a sham. It is a farce.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Liberal

Bardish Chagger Liberal Waterloo, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thought that the opposition member was going to stand up and perhaps realize that he moved an amendment in the House to undo the amendment he had moved at committee. I guess that was not the case.

It is important for the member to know that we do believe in a new approach. It will take everyone wanting to work better together. I will continue keeping my door open.

The member talks about the government's track record, so let us talk about it quickly.

We lowered taxes for middle-class Canadians by increasing them for the wealthiest 1% of Canadians. What did the Conservatives do? They voted against it.

We gave more money to families with children that needed it the most, by asking better-off Canadians to take a little less. What did the Conservatives do? They voted against it.

We reduced taxes on small businesses to 9%. What did the Conservatives do? They voted against it.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC

Mr. Speaker, the leader has done me the great favour, after seven years in this place, of trying to explain to me what the difference is between a notice of motion and the actual motion being before us. I appreciate that, and I understand the difference.

In the previous parliament, the member for Winnipeg North would wax on in these types of debates about how it was proof that the government House leader had given up working with opposition parties.

I ask the hon. House leader this, if the member for Winnipeg North could cease heckling me. Does the fact that she feels the need to bring forward notices of motions of time allocation not represent bad faith in the very negotiations she purports to care so much about?

Motion that debate be not further adjournedExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Liberal

Bardish Chagger Liberal Waterloo, ON

Mr. Speaker, as the member probably knows, many conversations take place among parties. Every part of government, opposition or whatever the case, has important work to do in this place.

I have said both in the House as well as outside the House that I very much respect the work of the opposition. It is important the government of the day be held to account, that the government be more open and transparent, and that is what we will continue to do. That is why we are saying to let us have more time for debate, let us have more opportunity to do so.

On numerous occasions, there are times when I have asked how much time is needed. When I do not receive any information, I have limited tools. Therefore, I would like to reassure the member that I take this as a last and final step. It has never been the easiest decision. Every time I use those tools, I use them with regret because I wish there was a better way forward. I would need the opposition to help to make that way forward.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings at this time and put forthwith the question on the motion now before the House.

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Motion that debate be not further adjournedExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

All those opposed will please say nay.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #676

Extension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

I declare the motion carried.

The House resumed from May 25 consideration of the motion.

Extension of Sitting HoursExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, I always appreciate the opportunity to rise in this House, although it is on a sombre note today, given the motion that we are debating. With Motion No. 22 again we see the government trying to do everything it can to restructure the rules of the game to compensate for its own significant failures. The opposition is frustrated and Canadians are frustrated at the many abuses we see of the parliamentary process and in the dissonance between the commitments that were made around transparency and respect for this institution and the reality we see, which is a total and unprecedented lack of respect for this place, for this institution, and for democracy itself.

I just have a few notes about where we are on this particular motion, Motion No. 22, which proposes to dramatically extend the hours of debate every day. It is an attempt by the government to try to ram through more of its legislative agenda. The Liberals brought in closure on this motion before it had even been debated. There was no debate on this motion, and the government wanted to immediately propose to bring about an end to that debate. I am actually the first person speaking to the motion. The government put forward the motion, but the government House leader cannot even be bothered to defend the approach the Liberals are taking, so debate then falls to the opposition. This shows how much respect the government has for the important debate that happens in this sacred place, the people's House. Even in the process by which the Liberals bring forward this motion, we see a lack of respect for this institution and for democracy that underlines the opposition's frustration.

I want to highlight a number of the principal grievances we have with the way the government is operating in this respect. I would appreciate it, Mr. Speaker, if you would give me a signal when I have one minute left, because at that time I will be moving an amendment as well.

We have this whole issue of the government shutting down debate before it has even begun. There are important issues to be debated with respect to the structure of the motion. We do not oppose in principle any extension of the hours, but we are going to be moving an amendment, adding the idea that if the government extends hours for government orders, then a fair corollary is that we have a similar extension of hours with respect to opposition motions. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

However, the government has put forward a motion that says opposition days will remain with the limited hours that they have, while government orders will have the extended period that has been proposed with the motion. We see again a pattern from the current government, which is always setting up the rules to its advantage. We saw this pattern with the Liberals' approach to electoral reform. They wanted to change the electoral system to their advantage, and when it became clear that it was not going to work, they said, “Let's scrap the whole exercise.”

We saw it with respect to changes they wanted to make to the Standing Orders. They wanted to change the Standing Orders to weaken the role of the opposition, to make time allocation automatic and take away various important powers that the opposition has. We resisted that. We engaged public concern on that and eventually forced the government to back down.

We see Bill C-76, government legislation that is trying to make changes to the rules governing elections to the Liberals' own advantage, and we see changes with respect to the way in which the extension of hours is happening. Again, the Liberal Party is trying to change the rules to its own political advantage. We have the government shutting down debate before it started.

In this session of Parliament as well, we have expected of the government some basic level of transparency. The Liberals promised in the last election that they would go above and beyond with respect to transparency and sharing vital information with Canadians, yet we see a complete lack of transparency from the government. The most egregious case of the lack of transparency we see from the current government certainly is the carbon tax cover-up.

As the opposition, we have asked the government to give basic information about the impact its policies will have on Canadians. Here is how it works. The government has said that it wants every Canadian to have to pay a carbon tax. Wherever someone lives, it thinks that person should have to pay higher taxes, and it will not let any provincial government get away with not charging those higher taxes.

The government has said that if a province does not set up its own carbon tax, the federal government will impose a carbon tax. It has defended that as consistent with the philosophy it has, which is the government taking more money. From its perspective, a bigger government is the solution to every problem. We have said that this is not the solution to the environmental challenges we face, that there are many different ways, such as the binding sector-by-sector regulatory approach and other kinds of incentives we can use and have used in the past, to bring about environmental improvement.

The government does not think that is the right way to go. Instead, it thinks that imposing higher taxes on Canadians is the way to go. We disagree with that and we have tried to have debate about it. We have challenged the government to defend its position. It has not really defended its position, except to suggest that perhaps its plan is the only possible plan, even though its carbon tax is not even connected with specific targets. It knows it should understand that the very nature of the carbon tax as an instrument is to impose a tax but is not to set a particular total cap on emissions.

We see this policy from the government and we disagree with it. We can can have some discussion about it, but at the end of the day the government will not even release the information that would allow Canadians to understand what the impact of that carbon tax will be. The information it has released about the impact the carbon tax would have on ordinary Canadians has all the critical information blacked out. This is an issue of the taxes Canadians pay and is an issue of the impact this policy would have on hard-working families in terms of the affordability of basic needs like home heating and transportation. Absolutely, on behalf of Canadian taxpayers and families in my riding and other parts of the country who are looking for real affordability, we raise these concerns about the affordability of the carbon tax.

However, this is also an issue of respect for this institution. We have a government that does not respect this institution and is covering up key information about how much the carbon tax would cost Canadians. We have repeatedly asked the government to show the numbers and defend its policy. If it thinks a carbon tax is the right way to go, then it should release the numbers, tell Canadians how much the carbon tax is going to cost them, and make the case to Canadians about whether they think that is a good idea. Then we can have that debate.

By the way, when these questions are asked, it is very interesting. The finance minister will talk about the specific structures in place in some provinces, but then when asked about the federal carbon tax that would be imposed in jurisdictions where a province is unwilling to give in to the bullying of the government, we are not told how much individual Canadians would pay.

By the way, we know how much it would cost the Canadian economy. It is a massive cost to the Canadian economy, but the government is covering up the information about how much it would cost individuals.

In shutting down debate before it has even begun, in trying to constantly change the rules to its advantage, and in covering up key information about the policy decisions it is making, the Liberal government displays the profound disrespect it has for our democracy and for our institutions in general.

Now, in the same vein, I would like to speak as well to what is happening right now with the government's attempt to ram forward the bill dealing with changes to the Canada Elections Act, Bill C-76. We are very concerned about how this legislation would not protect Canada from foreign interference in our elections and how this legislation would create certain advantages for the government over the opposition. We have repeatedly raised these concerns, but the government has shut down debate.

Not only that: we have a situation in which the Chief Electoral Officer, on the instruction of the government, is actually already in the process of creating the mechanisms for the operation of an election on the basis of legislation that has not even passed Parliament.

The Prime Minister tells us that the government is open to amendment, but how plausible is it that the government is really open to substantial amendments when it has already asked the Chief Electoral Officer to begin the process of preparing for the implementation of the original unamended bill?

We know that when the government proposed this legislation, we were getting close to the time of the next federal election, but rather than proposing legislation earlier so that there could have been opportunities for discussion and building consensus among parties, the Liberals waited until this later stage and then pushed the Chief Electoral Officer to begin the process of quasi-implementation before the proposed legislation has even passed, which makes it very clear that they are not serious when it comes to the issue of receiving feedback from experts and receiving amendments.

I sat in on the environment committee when over 100 amendments were proposed, many of them by government members. It clearly shows that the committee process can reveal problems, even from the viewpoint of government members with government legislation. However, what happened at the environment committee is again an interesting example in terms of the way the government operates when it comes to democracy. There was a motion in place that meant that there was absolutely no discussion on many of the amendments that came forward. There were many amendments from all corners of the House, and the movers of the amendments in each case did not even have an opportunity to make their case with respect to their amendment. It was simply a matter of “Here is the amendment and here is the vote.”

This is how the government wants to operate. It wants to ram through legislation. Already we see with these electoral changes the government forcing the process of implementation through before the legislation has passed the House.

What is so concerning about Bill C-76? Well, Canadians I have talked to are very concerned about the possibility of foreign interference in our elections. Yes, the way the legislation is structured would prevent foreign entities from directly and explicitly campaigning under their own name during a Canadian election; however, there are absolutely no rules to prevent the transfer of funds from a foreign entity to a Canadian entity prior to that election period, and that money could then be used during the election for the advantage of that group and no doubt for the advantage of the foreign entity.

Let us take a purely hypothetical example. Let us suppose there was an organization called Vladimir Putin Incorporated and that it was interested in influencing the Canadian election. It transferred $5 million to a Canadian organization called Canadians Against NATO Membership, and that was mingled with $50 million raised locally. The $5 million and the $50 million were mingled, so it was totally indistinguishable as to which money came externally and which was raised by Canadian donors. That money could then be used in a Canadian election. There would be caps on the advertising that this third party could do, but it could still be doing a significant amount of activism and mobilization work under the radar.

Canadians should be very concerned about that. This is an example that could happen, and it could in fact fully conform with the law as it is written.

We think, as Conservatives, that strong measures are needed to prevent foreign interference in Canadian elections, but for whatever reason, the Liberals, although they spend some time talking about this situation in certain cases, have not brought forward legislation that would actually address it. However, again, they have now asked the Chief Electoral Officer to begin implementing proposed legislation that has not even passed the House.

There are many other issues in Bill C-76 that we could talk about in terms of ID requirements and so forth, and there is an important discussion to be had there. However, I will specifically address the artificial advantage created by the government.

The government has done this. Right now we have a writ period. It has said that it does not want the writ period to be too long. On the other hand, it has created this formalized pre-writ period, which some might argue effectively increases the writ period. We have the pre-writ period and the defined writ period, which together we might see as really forming something like what the writ period used to be.

In any event, that pre-writ period has restrictions on political party advertising, which will hit opposition parties very hard. They do not have the same resources the government has when it chooses to engage in advertising itself. The government has all the resources of being in office, of continuing to be in office, and it can continue to proceed with government advertising, as it would be able to outside of a writ period.

Therefore, we have this problem where the pre-writ period is kind of a quasi half writ period and half not. It is like the writ period insofar as there are restrictions on political parties. In particular, the impact is hardest on what opposition parties can do, but we do not have the same restrictions that would normally exist during the actual writ period with respect to the activities of government.

Therefore, we have the tilting of the scales through this bill in a way that works to the advantage of the government and foreign entities that would want to potentially influence Canadian elections and, at the same time, works to the disadvantage of the opposition. This is the consistent pattern we see from the government with respect to this issue. It is a consistent disrespect for Parliament and democracy, a consistent effort to tip the scales in the government's favour.

At the same time, I am conscious that, as we resist these efforts in Parliament, in committees, and elsewhere, Canadians will also see the importance of what we are doing and will not succumb to these attempts by the Liberals to tip the scales. They will observe the way in which the actions in Parliament do not match the high-minded rhetoric of the last election.

I think Canadians believe, when they see the way the current government acts, that “better is possible”, to coin a phrase. Better is always possible, and it is particularly possible now, when we have measures like Motion No. 22, which is again shutting down debate before it has even started.

I was going to make some comments on the pipeline issue, but I am running relatively short on time. However, briefly, it is a source of great frustration to me and my constituents that we had a government before that did not actually build four pipelines but created the conditions for the private sector to build four pipelines, which is an important difference. Now we have a government that on the one hand has created conditions that make it very difficult for private sector investors to want to proceed with pipelines. On the other hand, it has said that it will pour a whole bunch of public money into buying an existing pipeline and hopes to build onto that pipeline, undertaking the expansion.

It is perverse that before the government took office we had the private sector eager to build a pipeline. The approval of the northern gateway pipeline, energy east, and the Trans Mountain pipeline were there in process. The Conservatives approved every pipeline that was proposed, which included the construction of four pipelines. We now have a government that has made it so difficult for the private sector to build pipelines that it requires this massive multi-billion dollar bailout. Again, I think Canadians will see through the government. Something that could have been done by the private sector is being done by the public sector.

With that in mind, I move:

That the motion be amended by:

(a) adding to paragraph (b) the following: “and if a recorded division is demanded in respect of a motion moved pursuant to Standing Orders 78 or 57 in relation to any bill dealing with the Canada Elections Act or the Parliament of Canada Act, it shall stand deferred to December 5, 2018, at the expiry of the time provided for oral questions; and

(b) deleting all the words in paragraph (j).

Extension of Sitting HoursExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

Questions and comments, the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Employment.

Extension of Sitting HoursExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

Cape Breton—Canso Nova Scotia

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Employment

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to join in this debate.

As much as partisan posturing goes on, every now and then something is said in the chamber that triggers a reaction to some MPs. Certainly the member's comment about how Canadians can see through it is the one that has triggered the comments I want to share with the House now.

Canadians can see through that last 10 minutes of agony, listening to that speech. I was here in the chamber when Stephen Harper and his gang prorogued the House twice, once after six weeks of government.

I was in the House when one of the Conservative members, speaking on electoral reform, said he had witnessed first-hand voter fraud, people picking voter cards out of the garbage and using them. That member had to come back and purposefully apologize to the House, telling the House he had misled it. When we tried to send that issue to the PROC committee, the Conservatives shut down debate. They called closure. They put the run on it.

We will take no lessons from the member on how to operate the House.

Extension of Sitting HoursExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, my friend from Cape Breton—Canso has a long but selective memory.

To start with, the member described my speech as 10 minutes of agony. My speech was actually 20 minutes, so at least he liked the first 10 minutes. At least he was half-right, which is more often not the case with my friend from Cape Breton—Canso.

By the way, while we are talking about a fundamental disrespect for democracy, I am sure the member would like me to highlight the work he has done on the Canada summer jobs program, which now says that organizations, be they faith based or not, can no longer access the Canada summer jobs program unless they check a box. I wonder if the member is prepared to apologize for that, which is clearly a violation of the Charter of Rights in respect for conscience and religion.

In response to what the member said, the Liberals had never heard of prorogation, it seems, until the last 10 years. It has never been used in our history, at all, it seems. It is a normal part of the parliamentary procedure, which was used quite frequently. If the member would rather have seen the coalition under Michael Ignatieff take power, we could talk about that too.

Extension of Sitting HoursExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech.

One thing we agree on is that the people across the aisle have a very short memory. It is funny to see how fast they fell into the old habits they used to condemn so loudly in the last Parliament.

What I want to focus on is the claim that the government is trying to give opposition members more time. Yesterday, the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons gave notice of time allocation three times. Today, she says she also wants us to sit until midnight to give the opposition members time to debate.

I would like to hear what my colleague thinks. Does he agree with me that there is a contradiction in the government's approach? Does he not think the government is trying to convince the public that the blame lies with the opposition tactics, when the government is really the one at fault for mismanaging its own agenda?

Extension of Sitting HoursExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, let us be clear about what brings us here. The government is now trying to impose repeatedly time allocation and changing the rules to its advantage. It is reflective of a reality that it has not been very successful at getting its bills passed.

There are many reasons for this that are not within our control. For example, we regularly have the Senate raising problems with bills, more than has historically been the case. The Senate effectively has a Liberal majority. It is raising concerns with bills and sending them back to the House. That involves time of course and it is an important part of the process.

The government has been far less efficient with respect to proposing and passing bills. I think we have seen 30 government bills, other than routine appropriations, that have received royal assent. By this time, under the previous government, we had 50 government bills. Therefore, we were able to actually show more respect for the House. People may disagree with particular decisions here and there, but by ending debate before it starts, we are seeing the Liberals go further than has ever been done in the past.

Also, the Liberals are totally unable to manage their own legislative agenda, and that is what has gotten them to this point. If they are going to pass this motion, at least support the opposition amendment that treats the opposition fairly in that context as well.

Extension of Sitting HoursExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague kept talking about the disrespect being shown to the House. I was here on Friday, on House duty. The disrespect shown in the House when for one hour solid the members opposite slammed their desks and would not listen to the Speaker when he called for order was total disrespect.

Second, today, during question period, when the minister got up to answer questions, I could not hear the answer in my earpiece because of the screaming from the other side of the House. I really would like to know what my hon. colleague's definition of disrespect is.

Extension of Sitting HoursExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, I think Canadians believe the opposition has an important role, and that role involves challenging the government. Therefore, when we have a situation in question period, when we ask repeated serious questions of the government about providing basic information, as a Canadian, about ending the carbon tax cover-up and the minister simply ignores the question and makes a statement that has no relationship to the question, that situation, as the Speaker has said, perhaps provokes a legitimate frustration and response from members.

We should have good, substantive debate in the House. Ministers who refuse to answer questions should then be called out by opposition members. This is part of the dialogue that needs to take place. If the government showed more respect for the substantive debate that happens in this place, then the opposition would have less need for using tactics that we are now required to use in defence of our democracy.

Extension of Sitting HoursExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Mr. Speaker, the member is an eloquent speaker, and he spoke to a number of different things. I would like to ask the member a simple question. To me, the biggest issue the government has is its failure to be accountable for its own actions. The Liberals continually try to spin the blame on previous Parliaments and previous governments, and they will not take responsibility for their own decisions. Does he agree that is the biggest issue with this Liberal government?

Extension of Sitting HoursExtension of Sitting HoursGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his comments and for his excellent and always eloquent interventions in the House. He is absolutely right. We see the government taking actions that are really beyond the pale. Any time there are legitimate questions about it, they ignore the questions and sometimes say that it is all about the previous government.

I remember a great intervention by former president Barack Obama during his press gallery dinner speech. He said that people accused him of always blaming the previous administration, but that was a practice that began under George W. Bush. This is precisely the approach the government takes and it is worth underlining.