Debates of June 1st, 2018

Federal Sustainable Development Act

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

It being 1:15 p.m., pursuant to order made on Tuesday, May 29, 2018, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and to put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the third reading stage of the bill now before the House.

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

No.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

In my opinion, the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Pursuant to order made on Tuesday, May 29, the division stands deferred until Monday, June 4, at the expiry of the time provided for oral questions.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Madam Speaker, I suspect if you were to canvass the House, you would find unanimous consent to see the clock at 1:30 p.m. and we could begin private members' hour.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Is that agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's Order Paper.

The House resumed from April 19 consideration of the motion that Bill C-396, an act to amend the Department of Industry Act (financial assistance), be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Department of Industry Act

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise to talk about the bill introduced by the member from Beauce concerning federal government accountability and transparency. It is an extremely important issue.

I have to admit that it must seem a little strange, because yesterday I gave a speech in support of the member for Carleton's private member's bill, and today I am rising to support the private member's bill introduced by my colleague from Beauce. I am wondering what is happening in my political career. Perhaps it is a sign that we can rise above partisanship and support a good bill.

I do not see how the federal government could oppose the bill in question, considering what it is about. In fact, it would provide a better mechanism to monitor the repayment of loans made to certain companies. It is not very complicated. It is a fairly simple process that would address the concerns of Canadians who want to know how their money is spent and when it will be repaid. When I read the bill, I was surprised that there was no such process in place.

I get the impression that the other side holds the opposite view, so I look forward to hearing what they have to say. That is why we have debates in the House. I expect people to contradict me. I am a good sport, and I am prepared to look at the facts. However, I think that we, the 338 parliamentarians here, should all agree that the need for accountability and transparency is completely normal. That is what Canadians expect. The responsible thing to do is not to give loans to companies without monitoring them very closely so that those loans do not turn into long-term subsidies.

There are times when it is right for the government to intervene. It is normal for the government to play a role in stimulating the economy and helping an economic or industrial sector. It is normal for the government to lend a helping hand to a company that is struggling because of a recession, a difficult situation, or a crisis. Obviously, as New Democrats, we agree with that, but we also want the government to act responsibly and transparently and to make all of the information available.

In keeping with that train of thought, I would like to take this opportunity to talk about economic sectors that sometimes experience crises. Let us talk about the steel and aluminum sectors. Since yesterday, we have been in a trade war with our number one partner, the United States. President Trump has just improperly, illegitimately, and likely illegally, under the rules of NAFTA and the World Trade Organization, imposed huge tariffs of 25% on steel and 10% on aluminum.

We are pleased that the government is standing up and retaliating on that. It is not the ideal situation. It would have been better if we could have avoided this situation entirely, because it will harm not only workers and companies on both sides of the border, but also consumers, who may quite literally have to pay the price. What I mean by that is that the price of certain things is going to go up.

We are very pleased with the government's forceful response. That is what we expected, and we believe it is the right thing to do, but we want this war to end.

In the meantime, how does the government plan to help workers in those two sectors? Those workers will very likely experience work shortages, lost contracts, and probably temporary or permanent layoffs. Does the government have a plan to help workers in the steel and aluminum sectors deal with this?

This is kind of like what we went through in the forestry sector not long ago. We are still in a trade war with the United States over softwood lumber.

It is at times like these that, as a state, as the instrument of the people, we must have the power to intervene and provide loans, loan guarantees, and subsidies. However, getting back to the bill introduced by the member from Beauce, we also need to be kept in the know so we can be sure we have all the information months and years down the line.

We need clarity and transparency about where the money goes, how it is spent, and when and how it is supposed to be paid back, because these are loans, not subsidies. This private member's bill will cost taxpayers nothing and will ensure greater transparency.

The government seems to be saying that this process already exists and that the bill is unnecessary. I am looking forward to my colleague's speech on that.

I would also really like more clarity and transparency around the inappropriate and unjustified multi-billion-dollar investment in buying the Trans Mountain pipeline from Kinder Morgan. The people of this country need to be in the know about that too.

This is a public bailout for specific companies. The government has just written a $4.5-billion cheque to an American company from Texas for a 65-year-old pipe. We think that is huge. There was really no transparency from the government on this decision. Thinking back to the 2015 election campaign and the debates with the Liberal candidates on Montreal Island, I do not remember hearing them say anything about writing multi-billion-dollar cheques to private companies that got cold feet. They never said that the sky is the limit and that they would squeeze us dry and pay whatever it takes to move forward.

Their stubborn attitude goes against all of our greenhouse gas reduction and climate change goals.

I think this is one of the strongest examples of the government's lack of transparency right now. First of all, this was not in the Liberals' electoral platform, and they gave us no warning. Canadians are feeling betrayed and misled. What is more, judging from the reactions we have seen in the community, people are angry today, and so are we.

Secondly, we do not know where this will stop, because the $4.5 billion will pay for the existing equipment, the pipeline, and the terminals. It will not create any jobs, because it does not include any construction. It only covers existing equipment.

Kinder Morgan calculated that it would take about $7.4 billion to proceed with the expansion of the Trans Mountain pipeline, on top of the $4.5 billion. This gives us a total of about $12 billion, assuming nothing goes wrong.

We have already seen projects where the initial estimates for the construction costs were wildly off the mark.

How far is the Liberal government prepared to go with this venture? This whole scheme is a disaster on multiple levels, including respect for provincial jurisdictions, compliance with treaties signed with indigenous communities, adherence to our greenhouse gas reduction targets, and shoreline protection.

In British Columbia, every coastal community is extremely worried because there will be three to four times as many supertankers navigating the beautiful waters of British Columbia. We are talking about roughly 400 tankers a year. Many people are concerned about that especially since we are not talking about traditional oil here. We are talking about bitumen, which sinks to the bottom rather than float on the surface of water. No one knows how to clean it up in the event of a spill.

I would like the Liberal government to show more transparency on that as well.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Madam Speaker, I am proud to rise today to speak to Bill C-396, an act to amend the Department of Industry Act regarding financial assistance. I was honoured to accept an invitation to speak to this private member's bill proposed by my colleague, the hon. member for Beauce, whom I proudly serve with on the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology.

This bill is an important step toward ensuring accountability when taxpayer resources are used to subsidize private companies, whether through loans or other guarantees. The purpose of this bill is to ensure that companies that receive repayable financial assistance provide that information to the government so that it can be publicly shared with Canadians.

Currently, when the Canadian government subsidizes through repayable assistance, Canadians have little means of knowing whether those companies have repaid their loans to taxpayers. This lack of accountability means that the government can extend taxpayer resources with little oversight from parliamentarians and Canadians. This lack of transparency is a scandal waiting to happen. I believe this simple legislation can help ensure that resources are being spent in an appropriate manner so that Canadian taxpayers can have the confidence that they will be repaid.

Canadians' hard-earned tax dollars are being used to offer loans to corporations. Therefore, Canadians have a right to transparency on how those companies will pay the loans back. No bank would loan money to anyone without a reasonable expectation of return and a plan to have those funds repaid, yet all too often what starts off as a government loan very quickly becomes a government grant. If Canadian taxpayers are expected to get in the business of financing private ventures, every taxpayer, like a shareholder in any private company, deserves quarterly reports on how those resources are being spent.

One case in particular comes to mind when debating this issue: the repayable loan of $375 million over four years paid to Bombardier by the Liberal government. This payment may have been necessary to support a Canadian company, but surely taxpayers are owed accountability in terms of how these funds are being spent and how they will be repaid. When my hon. colleague from the Beauce asked the government for further information on the terms and conditions of this loan payment, he was denied that information. In effect, Canadians were denied the right to judge the government on its use of taxpayer resources.

Now let us look at what has changed since then. In the last two years, Bombardier's share price has significantly improved, more than doubling, and yet Canadians do not have the information to judge whether the investment in loans by the federal government was worth the cost. In fact, there has been considerable movement on this file, as the C Series jet, which the government spent hundreds of millions to invest in, was bought by European conglomerate Airbus, after struggling to reach sales targets. Jobs and investment have now left Canada, and facilities to construct these taxpayer-subsidized jets are being built in Alabama. Canadians deserve to know how companies that receive taxpayer funds will pay back those funds and how they will be using those funds.

The case of Bombardier is certainly not isolated. In fact, nearly 200 companies have received $700 million of taxpayer assistance, but other than that headline number, there is little accountability to taxpayers. How many jobs are these projects creating? How much are these investments stimulating our economy? When will those loans be repaid to the taxpayer? These are all good questions, questions that could be better answered should Bill C-396 be passed.

I want to take a second to recognize that government investment can be very necessary in limited circumstances. I think of the bailout of our auto industry during the last financial crisis, when the previous Conservative government invested in shares that provided value to taxpayers, saved jobs in Ontario and across Canada, and ensured that automotive investment stayed in Canada. Canadians have a right to information regarding these deals because an informed citizenry is essential to a healthy democracy.

I am proud of the work that my colleague, the hon. member for Beauce, did when he served as the industry minister in 2006 and 2007. He published information regarding these loans: the amount and the conditions for repayment. Due to this, many of the companies actually started repaying their loans due to public pressure.

I understand that there may be some worries about Canada's competitive advantage should this legislation pass. However, the principle of accountability must trump all other considerations. In fact, I believe that accountability is a foundational principle for all actions undertaken by government. If Canada demonstrates an increased level of openness and transparency, we can set an example for other nations. This accountability will ensure that government undertakes financial assistance activities that meet the appropriate threshold under international law, and that we can be certain that these will be good subsidies. This is an example that Canada should set, and the world should follow.

Many times Canadian companies, like Bombardier, are unfairly attacked by foreign competitors that receive subsidies from their respective governments. If Canada passes Bill C-396, we will be showing the world that we have nothing to hide when we provide financial assistance to our companies.

There are many cases where financial assistance to companies can even achieve legitimate policy ends. I think of the construction of railroads across our great nation that could not have been achieved without significant government support. There is no reason why this financial support cannot provide a net benefit to taxpayers.

For example, in May 2013, Sandvine Incorporated was given a loan of $9.5 million and later paid back $14 million. Not only were taxpayers given their money back, but the deal helped this company generate jobs and create economic value for Canadians.

We must always place as a priority, however, that governments are not driven by political consideration or emotion but instead by hard facts. Providing grants or so-called repayable loans to private companies should be absolutely the last resort. Instead, governments should seek to build the foundation that allows private investment to thrive in an environment that emphasizes free markets.

It is not the job of the government to pick winners and losers. If the Liberals have decided they want to pick winners with taxpayer money, the least they can do is provide transparency on how taxpayers will be repaid. This bill would create that transparency and would provide accountability for companies so they would be compelled to repay their loans, rather than hiding in the darkness of government secrecy.

I suspect the Liberal government will vote against this bill to provide greater transparency, which is a real shame. The Liberal Party campaigned on doing politics differently. Sadly, as soon as the dust settled after the election, we quickly realized it was business as usual with the same old Liberal Party. The train of pork emanating from the government is simply astounding. At a time of global economic expansion, foreign investment is leaving our country at a record pace and the Liberals are using taxpayer resources to try to stem the tide, unsuccessfully. The problem is that when the economy is growing, it is fairly easy to run deficits, but when the economy inevitably contracts, the taxpayer will be left on the hook for these loans.

During the last economic crisis, the Conservatives acted in the national interest and injected an unprecedented amount into our economy. We saved our auto industry and ensured our country became the first out of the G7 to come out of the recession. That is a record of which we can be proud.

Let us remember, however, that this fiscal flexibility was only possible because of decades of Liberal and Conservative fiscal prudence. That fiscal prudence balanced Canada's budget in 2015 and would have ensured that Canada would be well placed to weather future economic storms.

Unfortunately, the government has used these good economic times to expand spending at a rate that goes beyond sustainability. It is replacing private investment with taxpayer funds, but without the same oversight that investors in private companies can expect.

Bill C-396 is an important step. When Canadians get transparency and accountability, they can judge the government's actions. When decisions are made in a shrouded manner, it takes an extraordinary amount of effort by taxpayers and parliamentarians to get to the truth. The government counts on this lack of transparency to get away with giving repayable loans that are often or never repaid, loans which Canadians have a right to examine and question.

I strongly support Bill C-396. As accountability is the foundation of a free and democratic society, so too is the right of Canadians to examine and pass judgment on government assistance to private companies.

[David Lametti, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Innovation]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his speech and for admitting that the government could invest in the economy.

Our government recognizes the importance of innovation as a critical tool for business growth. That is why, like many other industrialized countries around the world, we are offering a financial solution to companies that want to grow, access new markets, and develop technologies that will benefit an innovation-based economy.

Our innovation and skills plan establishes a long-term economic vision for Canada that is fuelled by innovation, strong growth, talent, and a collective will to ensure that no one is left behind.

In order to successfully implement the innovation and skills plan, we have to find new ways to reflect how governments support and stimulate economic growth that is inclusive through greater harmonization, better collaboration, and a strategic approach for supporting innovation in every region of Canada.

Let me be clear. This is not corporate welfare or subsidies for big business. This is smart investment in Canada's businesses, in Canada's people, and in Canadian ideas from coast to coast to coast. These investments will create thousands of middle-class jobs and, in particular, create the economy that we want to have both now and for our children and grandchildren. The support provided by government is done with a merit-based approach and focused on specific projects with results and goals set out clearly.

Members should note that this support is provided in an open and transparent manner, and in accordance with proactive disclosure requirements for grants and contributions that enhance the transparency and oversight of public resources.

Our government's proactive disclosure requirements already meet, and in many cases exceed, the requirements set out in Bill C-396. For example, the member for Beauce said that before, “...taxpayers could go to the department's website and find out which companies had received financial assistance [and] how much they received...”.

I am surprised that the member opposite is not aware that this has been the Government of Canada's practice since 2006, and it is still the practice. In fact, under this government, these requirements have been enhanced.

Since April 1, agencies, crown corporations, and federal departments have been following the new guidelines on the reporting of grants and contributions awards. The new guidelines set clear and explicit requirements for federal agencies with respect to the proactive disclosure of their grants and contributions, and these requirements largely exceed those set out in the bill before us. The guidelines take a whole-of-government approach instead of targeting a single federal department.

All information on federal government grants and contributions will be posted at www.open.canada.ca. Canadians will have access to a single site where they can better monitor how the government is using public resources.

The amount of information to disclose increased considerably, with respect to both the previously announced requirements and the requirements set out in Bill C-396. From now on, federal agencies will have to disclose much more information for each disclosure. This includes a more detailed section on the objective of the awards, the expected results, and the recipient. The bill we are debating today does not contain such explicit requirements.

In addition, if the bill is passed, these publication requirements will be strengthened and modernized by Bill C-58, an act to amend the Access to Information Act and the Privacy Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts, currently before the Senate. Bill C-58 introduces the legislative requirement for the proactive publication of grants and contributions in line with the new guidelines that I just outlined.

I also want to clarify a few things regarding some of the statements made in previous discussions on Bill C-396. More specifically, I would like to revisit something the member for Beauce said, specifically that Industry Canada publishes individual loan agreements, or repayable contribution agreements, including the specific terms and conditions of repayment. That is one of the requirements that Bill C-396 aims to impose on Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada.

I want to make it very clear that ISED, the former Industry Canada, has never published the terms and conditions of individual funding agreements or the agreements themselves. The ISED website contains general documents on the terms and conditions as well as program guides that include information on the repayment of funding contributions. This gives Canadians some idea of the government's objectives and needs when public resources are used to support businesses and it gives businesses an overview of the kinds of measures that might be used to determine their repayment schedule.

By contrast, Bill C-396 requires the Minister of Innovation, Science and Economic Development to publish information on individual agreements, thereby forcing the government to publish sensitive, confidential commercial information on private Canadian businesses. That information could potentially be used by a domestic or foreign competitor to undermine the competitiveness of Canadian firms in the global innovation economy.

This would be of particular concern to smaller, privately owned businesses that are not already required to publicly report on things like revenues and expenditures in the same way as publicly traded companies. These are matters of privacy and security that we need to contend with as well.

In essence, Bill C-396 would place undue disclosure requirements on individual Canadian businesses, and compromise their competitive position in the market. I, for one, would like the member opposite to explain why he thinks it is okay to impose undue regulatory burdens on businesses, especially our small and medium-sized businesses. In fact, they are the largest receivers of government investment, which they using to try to scale up and grow their businesses right here in Canada, as opposed to moving elsewhere.

The newly implemented proactive publication requirements for grants and contributions, as well as Bill C-58, fully support the principles of greater transparency and accountability with respect to the use of public money, without unduly imposing transparency requirements on private businesses and organizations.

In summary, Bill C-396 would not improve the government's proactive publication practices as intended, and would undermine the government's efforts to collaborate with Canadian businesses that benefit Canada by generating investment, developing new technologies, and enhancing Canadian innovation capacity and expertise.

Since forming government in 2015, we have taken concrete action to ensure greater openness and transparency, without compromising business confidence. While the member for Beauce presents the bill under the veil of openness and transparency, we all know that its real purpose is ideological. That member is fundamentally opposed to the idea of taxpayer dollars going to Canadian businesses. His position is clear: he does not believe in investing in the people, ideas, and innovations of Canadian businesses. What is not clear is if he speaks on behalf of his party.

The member for Beauce also questions the relevance and importance of the work carried out by our regional development agencies and their support for small and medium-sized businesses across Canada, support that we have increased as a government. Of course, that is his prerogative, but it is also unclear whether that is the position of his leader and his party, which is especially interesting because he is also the Conservative Party's official critic of ISED and a member of the industry committee. Do they view investing in Canadian businesses as corporate welfare? Certainly we do not.

For all those reasons, our government cannot support this bill. We are going to keep supporting Canadians and Canadian businesses.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Madam Speaker, I must say that the hon. member across the way has an interesting definition of “competitive advantage”. He is saying that when the government gives independent corporations funds, they do not have to disclose a repayment schedule because that might somehow limit their competitive advantage. I would argue that they have a significant competitive advantage, because the taxpayer just gave them a loan and we have no idea whether it is ever going to be repaid.

Before I go any further in my speech, I want to congratulate friends of mine, Austin and Charis Olij, who had a new baby girl, Brianna. I just want to tell the new little girl that she is already $22,000 in debt, thanks to the national government. However, she is also the proud owner of a pipeline right here in Canada. I congratulate the Olijs on their new little baby girl, and I congratulate the new little girl on being heavily indebted and the owner of a pipeline already.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

It makes you want to cry.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

As my hon. colleague from Barrie—Innisfil said, it makes you want to cry. I thought for sure I had to get that in there.

Madam Speaker, I shake my head again at the comments made earlier about the competitive advantage. What is really interesting is that if we look over the list of all the companies that we have given millions of dollars to over the years, we see that the government has done business with them as well. It is interesting that not only do we give them big subsidies, or “loans” that have never been repaid, but we also do significant business with them as well.

One of these companies is IBM. Members might be familiar with IBM. It is a very old company. It made its fortune during the lead-up to and during the Second World War. I believe it is the company that is at the centre of the Phoenix fiasco.

Here we are paying out $33 million to IBM. Has that money ever been repaid? We do not know. Will it ever be repaid? We also do not know. Therefore, I commend the member for Beauce for bringing this particular bill forward, because it has highlighted for me how we have given certain companies in this country a significant competitive advantage.

We often have a very rigorous competition when we hand out contracts. I understand that this was done in the case of Phoenix. When a company lands a government contract, it becomes quite a player in its particular industry. A company that has a government contract will often go out and market that fact. I see all the time companies saying that they have contracts with the Department of National Defence. They wear it as a badge of honour. However, we have not only given IBM contracts; we have also given IBM $33 million with no repayment schedule that we, as the taxpayers of Canada, can see.

Another one on this list is $4.5 million for Lockheed Martin Canada. I thought that was fairly interesting. I understand we may have given Lockheed Martin this money for the work that we had done collectively with a number of other countries when we were developing the F-35. This money may have been a gift for the development work that Lockheed Martin needed to do. I do not know for sure. However, what we do know is that the government has ignored the F-35. Here is this big gift of money to Lockheed Martin, and we have no idea whether we are ever going to get it back. We certainly will not be buying F-35s at this moment, so that money seems to have gone off to develop airplanes for the world. I know that many of our allies are using that airplane, but I do not see that we are necessarily getting a great return on investment for that one as well.

Another one that was interesting to me was Navstar Canada, Inc. If I understand correctly, these are the folks who build heavy-duty trucks. I thought that was interesting.

I used to work in the automotive field. I worked on diesel pickups for most of my life before I got here. I am familiar with Navistar. I believe it provided engines for Ford pickup trucks. It is interesting to see that Navistar received a loan at some point in 2005 of $30 million. To its credit, it paid some off. From the sheet I am looking at right now, it looks like it paid off a whole $410. Over the last 10 years or so, it has paid off $410. That is significant. It was one of the interesting numbers, because it actually changed, unlike a lot of the numbers I have gone through. For example, the government gave MDS Aero Support Corporation $6.1 million in 1997, and the books show that it still owes $6,100,000.

I again commend the member for Beauce for bringing this forward and for bringing it to my attention. Corporate welfare is one of my great frustrations, particularly from the Government of Canada, regardless of political stripe.

I congratulated my friend Austin earlier. He is a mechanic in northern British Columbia. I do not know exactly what he makes, but as someone who has worked in the field before, I imagine that he pays probably $12,000 in income tax every year, and probably about $7,000 to $10,000 of that is federal income tax.

We can see how many mechanics it would take to pay those kinds of numbers, when we are dealing with Navistar Canada's $30 million. It would take a lot of mechanics working across the country to pay that $30 million.

We have heard about trips that have been taken by people here that have cost taxpayers $200,000. When we break that down into the average automotive mechanic's contribution to the federal coffers, it works out to 200 mechanics working all year to pay for the Prime Minister's trip.

What is even more egregious about this is that in some cases, people who are working in the world of commerce are competing in the marketplace only to have their tax dollars, the money they worked all year for, go directly to their competition. I have a good example of this in my riding. The government gave a grant for last-mile Internet. One particular company got a $2-million grant to bring the Internet. It caused competition with the folks who were already operating in that space and had been there for 30 years. A new company that received a large grant from the government is now competing with the mom-and-pop shops that had been operating there for over 30 years.

That grates on me incredibly. Folks have worked hard for a very long time to build the basic infrastructure for the Internet in northern Alberta, only to have larger companies come in that have good grant writers and that get government grants and then compete in exactly the same space with exactly the same products.

In this particular case, a constituent of mine was servicing several hundred farmyards and acreages in northern Alberta, and he was able to provide adequate Internet service for about $69.99. The other company, which received a large grant from the government, came in and for $39.99 was able to provide the same Internet service. It basically put the other guy out of business. He had to do other things.

This is where government subsidies are a real frustration, particularly where I come from in northern Alberta. We are a free market place. We typically like that. When it comes to the Internet, there is a lot of competition, and that has driven the government down, for sure.

I thank the member for Beauce again for bringing this legislation forward. I am very disappointed to hear that the government is not going to support the bill, although I am sure we have achieved something just by getting this list out.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Madam Speaker, I will start by saying that I am somewhat disappointed with my Liberal colleague's position on this bill, given that it has the support of those on the left in the NDP and those on the right in the Conservative Party.

In Canada, it is a good sign when those on the left and socialists support a bill that limits corporate handouts to businesses. That is good news. This bill ensures that there is greater transparency concerning the amounts and the financial grants or contributions that the government gives to major corporations.

What is a little disappointing is that these corporations currently receive assistance from the Canadian government. We are told that they receive repayable loans and contributions. However, when we take a look at the numbers, more than 200 companies in Canada received millions of dollars in loans. We might be talking about $300 million or $60 million. In fact, $702 million was paid out to companies, but we do not know if this contributions were repaid. Some of these loans date back to 1997. Why do we not know if they were repaid?

It is true. My colleague was quite right in saying that when individual loans are repaid, the repayment is indicated on the department's website. However, there are no further details for some loans. I will quote what it says on the government website. There is no information about the repayment of certain loans because this:

“Indicates that the company has not provided ISED with an authorization to disclose repayment information.”

What we take from that is that the companies themselves are the ones who decide whether they want their loan repayment to be made public or not. That should not be the case. That is taxpayers' money, and Canadians have the right to know what is happening with it and whether it was paid back or not. That is what this bill seeks to do. It is a very clear and simple bill.

Under the bill, when a company like Bombardier or ABM receives financial assistance from the government, the government must, within 90 days, publish on its website the amount of the loan and the insurance provided to the company by the Minister of Innovation, Science and Economic Development, as well as the type of insurance provided, whether loan or credit insurance. We want to know the missing details, which would tell us about all of the loans made, the loan insurance or credit insurance provided, and the grants awarded, as well as the circumstances of the loan and the terms and conditions of repayment. The government does not want to go along with that.

Indeed, the government does not want to share that information, claiming that it could be part of a company's trade secrets. I really do not believe that a loan repayment and the repayment conditions are part of a company's trade secrets. The repayment method and schedule are not trade secrets. That should be public, since the money given to those companies comes from all taxpayers.

This is unfair for small businesses, especially businesses in Beauce and the other regions of Canada, which are forced to pay taxes and, at the end of the day, never receive any of these loans. We want to know whether they are loans or grants. If financial assistance has not been repaid after 20 years, why was it not paid back? What were the repayment terms and conditions? That is what we do not know. That is what the bill calls for. It is a very simple piece of legislation.

I am very disappointed that the government is not being more transparent and is letting big corporations decide whether taxpayers will get any information about repayment of those loans. That is a real shame.

The Liberal Party and the government could have been more open with taxpayers and proven that the $702 million handed over to companies over the past few years were not grants, but were indeed repayable loans with repayment conditions. Now Canadians are wondering about the $702 million. The fact that we do not know the repayment arrangements suggests to me that the money was given to those businesses.

Since we do not know how the money is supposed to be repaid, that means it was a grant. This is a real letdown.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

No.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.