House of Commons Hansard #316 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was c-59.

Topics

National Security Act, 2017Government Orders

8:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

National Security Act, 2017Government Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

All those opposed will please say nay.

National Security Act, 2017Government Orders

8:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

National Security Act, 2017Government Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

In my opinion the nays have it.

And five or more members having risen:

The recorded division is deferred.

The next question is on part 6 of the bill and the coming into force provisions contained in clause 173.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt these elements of the bill?

National Security Act, 2017Government Orders

8:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

National Security Act, 2017Government Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

All those in favour will please say yea.

National Security Act, 2017Government Orders

8:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

National Security Act, 2017Government Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

All those opposed will please say nay.

National Security Act, 2017Government Orders

8:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

National Security Act, 2017Government Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

The recorded division on these elements of the bill stands deferred.

The next question is on parts 7 and 8 of the bill. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt these elements of the bill?

National Security Act, 2017Government Orders

8:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

National Security Act, 2017Government Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

All those in favour will please say yea.

National Security Act, 2017Government Orders

8:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

National Security Act, 2017Government Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

All those opposed will please say nay.

National Security Act, 2017Government Orders

8:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

National Security Act, 2017Government Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

In my opinion the nays have it.

And five or more members having risen:

The recorded division on these elements of the bill stands deferred.

The House would normally proceed at this time to the taking of the deferred recorded division at third reading stage of the bill. However, pursuant to order made Tuesday, May 29, the deferred recorded divisions stand deferred until Tuesday, June 19, at the expiry of the time provided for oral questions.

The House proceeded to the consideration of Bill C-71, An Act to amend certain Acts and Regulations in relation to firearms, as reported (with amendment) from the committee.

Speaker's RulingFirearms ActGovernment Orders

8:55 p.m.

NDP

The Acting Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

There are 28 motions in amendment standing on the Notice Paper for the report stage of Bill C-71. Motions Nos. 1 to 28 will be grouped for debate and voted upon according to the voting pattern available at the Table.

I will now put Motions Nos. 1 to 28 to the House.

Motions in amendmentFirearms ActGovernment Orders

8:55 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

moved:

Motion No. 1

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 1.

Motion No. 2

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 3.

Motion No. 3

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 4.

Motion No. 4

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 5.

Motion No. 5

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 6.

Motion No. 6

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 7.

Motion No. 7

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 8.

Motion No. 8

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 9.

Motion No. 9

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 10.

Motion No. 10

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 11.

Motion No. 11

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 12.

Motion No. 12

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 13.

Motion No. 13

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 14.

Motion No. 14

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 15.

Motion No. 15

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 16.

Motion No. 16

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 17.

Motion No. 17

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 18.

Motion No. 18

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 19.

Motion No. 19

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 20.

Motion No. 20

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 21.

Motion No. 21

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 23.

Motion No. 22

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 24.

Motion No. 23

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 25.

Motion No. 24

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 26.

Motion No. 25

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 27.

Motion No. 26

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 28.

Motion No. 27

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 29.

Motion No. 28

Bill C-71 be amended by deleting Clause 30.

Madam Speaker, I rise today to speak to Bill C-71 at report stage.

In my opinion, Bill C-71 is like a bad play. Let me explain. First, with regard to parliamentary work, the government shut down debate at second reading. What is more, the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security asked that it be allowed a sufficient number of meetings and witnesses, but the number of meetings was cut short. From the start, the government did not want to debate Bill C-71; it just wanted to impose the bill on us.

This bill was introduced for marketing purposes. We saw the government doing just that. The Liberals told themselves that they would introduce a bill on firearms to win votes and to get the Conservatives all worked up and drive them crazy. Well, we decided not to get all worked up. We have been smart about this. We looked at what was happening and we saw that it was not working.

Ultimately, Liberals in rural ridings are only hurting themselves. Those people are not fools. Canadians are not fools. Law-abiding Canadians can see that this bill plays politics by targeting the wrong people. It targets hunters and sport shooters while giving street gangs and real criminals a free pass. The Liberals tried to impress, but they ended up shooting themselves in the foot, no pun intended.

This also marks the return of a version of the gun registry, which was abolished a few years back. The Liberals resurrected a very insidious approach, in the form of reference numbers and records that gun retailers have to keep. When a retailer closes, the government takes possession of that information. Reference numbers are kept forever. The Liberals say there is no registry, they swear they are telling the truth, but all the elements are there. In a moment, I am going to talk about the amendments we proposed to fix these problems. All our amendments were rejected.

In order for us, the members of the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, to do our job properly, we asked for at least seven meetings. We conducted an analysis and examined what had been done by the minister's much-vaunted committee. Incidentally, the Liberals provided a long list of witnesses they said they had consulted, yet those people said they had never been consulted, despite appearing on the list. That is another problem the minister needs to consider.

We, the members of the committee, determined we needed seven meetings to do our job properly. The Conservatives had a list of 21 witnesses representing a variety of perspectives, from firearms advocates to civil rights defenders. There was a little bit of everything. We wanted to do a good job, but the Liberals cut the number of meetings down to four and limited us to seven witnesses. We had to make some tough choices. The Liberals raced through the study of the bill. We were hoping to get things done so everyone would be happy, but it did not work. The government was in a mad rush to get it over with, because constituents in rural Liberal ridings were getting on their case, and rightly so.

The Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness created a committee to discuss guns and street gangs. As I said at the beginning of my speech, all the focus is on hunting weapons instead of street gangs. I do not know what happened between the minister's consultations and the tabling of Bill C-71, but the bill contains absolutely no mention of street gangs. This has yet to be cleared up. It is a mystery worthy of Sherlock Holmes. Maybe one day we will find a solution.

When the minister introduced the bill, he wanted to scare people. He spoke about the serious problem of the rise in crimes committed with firearms in Canada. What he did not say was that the Liberals were using 2013 as their reference year. In the past 10 years, 2013 was the year with the fewest crimes in Canada. He spoke about a surge in crime, but the crime rate was returning to its usual levels. They used the 2013 statistics to indicate that there was an surge in gun crimes and that something had to be done about it. However, crimes are not committed by hunters and sport shooters, but by street gangs. Nevertheless, there is nothing about that.

The other serious problem, as I pointed out at the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, concerns first nations. As much as the Liberal government cares about all issues that affect first nations, it did not consult them and is now to some extent ignoring the problem. In committee, a representative from Saskatchewan told us that first nations would not abide by Bill C-71, first, because it is unconstitutional, and second, because guns are traditionally handed down from generation to generation. Canada's first nations are saying that Bill C-71 does not apply to them and that they will go to court to have it declared unconstitutional if the government tries to impose it.

What are we to do, then? The Liberals introduced a bill that does not address the issue of street gangs and that indigenous people are going to disregard. The only ones left are the hunters and sport shooters, who will once more be subject to stricter gun controls, which are already the strictest in the world.

The first nations issue is not a partisan matter, but it is very troubling. When we return in the fall, we need to clarify that, because the fact that indigenous peoples are not concerned about Bill C-71 and are not following the rules is problematic. We cannot have one type of security for one group of individuals and another type for other groups. We must all be on equal footing.

Our committee meetings to ask witnesses questions were limited, but we still did our work. We brought forward 45 amendments to Bill C-71. We took our work seriously. I will list a few of them, so that Canadians can see that they were reasonable.

First of all, we addressed the issue of firearms classification. It is currently the government that determines which firearms are restricted or prohibited, but Bill C-71 puts that entirely in the hands of the RCMP. We proposed an amendment that would give the minister the authority to change the classification of firearms based on recommendations from the manufacturer and the RCMP. Thus, we are proposing that the RCMP and the manufacturers still do their jobs, but that the government retain the power to make certain decisions to prevent the RCMP from making all the decisions, without the government being able to intervene.

Then, there are the chief firearms officers, who will be able to visit the premises of firearms retailers and check their records without a warrant. The government can therefore enter into the place of business of law-abiding retailers with no particular reason other than they sell arms. I believe this needs justification and a warrant.

Now, I want to talk about the date. Today is June 18, and on June 30, a list of 20 prohibited firearms will come into force, even though the bill is still being debated in the House. The firearms that will be prohibited are currently restricted. We are not even at third reading, and the Senate has not yet studied it. We asked the government not to set a fixed date and to implement the act once the bill passes, but the government rejected this legitimate amendment.

As for the list of firearms, the RCMP will now decide which firearms are prohibited, but the bill lists the firearms that will be prohibited. The government lists the firearms in the bill, even though it says that the RCMP will draw that list sometime in the future. This makes no sense. We proposed another amendment to fix this.

Lastly, I want to talk about the reference number that will be required for a transaction. This number will be retained and recorded. This government is therefore creating a registry, no matter what it claims.

No matter what the government said, it is bringing back some form of registry through the backdoor.

Motions in amendmentFirearms ActGovernment Orders

9:10 p.m.

Liberal

Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his work on this bill and for his work on the committee.

I wonder if the hon. member could remind us why the Conservative Party put forward an amendment to remove punishment for such offences as making a false statement to procure a licence or to procure customs confirmations, tampering with licences, unauthorized possession of ammunition, non-compliance with a demand to produce a firearm, contravention of conditions of licences, and trafficking in firearms. That was one of the amendments that was put forward.

I was reading comments from Mr. Randall Koops at committee, where he enumerated all the offences for which the Conservatives as a party were putting forward that there be no punishment, yet even after he enumerated them, the Conservative members of the committee voted in favour of that amendment. Of course, we voted against it, because we think there should be penalties for trafficking in firearms.

I wonder if the member could explain to the House why the Conservatives wanted to remove penalties for those offences.

Motions in amendmentFirearms ActGovernment Orders

9:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question, but I admit that I do not remember the 45 amendments. Was it a Liberal amendment or a Conservative one? I believe she said it was one of ours, but it was not. Thus, I cannot answer because, unfortunately, I do not remember that amendment.

Motions in amendmentFirearms ActGovernment Orders

9:10 p.m.

NDP

Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC

Mr. Speaker, in my riding, North Island—Powell River, there is a lot of serious concern about the bill. I thank all the people from my riding who are sending emails and letters.

One thing that has been brought forward to me is about having access to the gunsmith with one's PAL card. Right now, people could be out using their guns, and if something happens and they are concerned, they have the ability to transport them to a gunsmith to get the issue remedied. However, with the changes in the legislation, one thing that concerns me is that this would be removed.

A lot of people in my riding share the concern about shooting a gun that does not work. It is a live gun. How does one store it to protect one's family or keep it safe when one travels? Then one has to ask to transport it again. Having a live gun in one's home is a major concern.

I wonder if the member has a similar concern, and if there is anything in these amendments that would protect Canadians in this way. Could the member share a little about what he heard in committee?

Motions in amendmentFirearms ActGovernment Orders

9:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question. Indeed, what she asked about was one of the 45 amendments that we moved. It does not make sense to legitimate gun owners who will no longer be able to have their guns repaired. They have to do different things, and they always need a reference number or other number to do such and such a thing. We moved an amendment to avoid this type of situation, and the government rejected it.

Motions in amendmentFirearms ActGovernment Orders

9:10 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my hon. colleague for his obvious knowledge of the bill. He knows the harm that it could do. Again, it would be attacking not gang crimes and the underworld of illegal firearms, but law-abiding firearms owners. That seems to be the pet whipping horse of the government.

The member across the way tried to imply that we were soft on crime, which is absolutely not the case. Everybody in this place knows that.

Why does the member think that the government, once again, instead of doing what it said it would do to fix gang crime, illegal firearms, and that kind of thing, at the end of the day is attacking only law-abiding firearms owners?

Motions in amendmentFirearms ActGovernment Orders

9:15 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his excellent question. I believe that the answer is a lack of courage. It is easy to go after hunters, sport shooters, people who obey the law, but it is not easy to go after criminal groups. There are many, many ways of illegally bringing guns into the country or procuring guns. We know what the answers are, but there are answers that the government would rather not talk about. I think that there is a lack of courage to admit certain things.