House of Commons Hansard #375 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was home.

Topics

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

NDP

Wayne Stetski NDP Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Mr. Speaker, I know my colleague across the floor cares about people. In that context, I would like to read something that I received from Cheryl Dowden, the co-chair of the Nelson Committee on Homelessness. Nelson is a community in my riding of Kootenay—Columbia.

It states that a recent federally funded count identified 132 people who were homeless in Nelson, which has a population of 10,664 people. That's over 1% of the population. Of the 101 people who agreed to be surveyed, 56% reported that they first experienced homelessness before the age of 19 years. One-third of all people surveyed in Nelson experiencing homelessness were youth 24 years old and under. The overall vacancy rate for rental housing in 2017 in Nelson was 0%.

Does that not indicate a fundamental failure in the housing that is currently being offered to Canadians, and particularly the people in Nelson?

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

Mr. Speaker, I welcome and congratulate the member for his advocacy on the importance of making housing a right and a reality for many Canadians.

As I said, we have been fortunate to rely on the advice of many stakeholders, many Canadians, who were very patient with the Government of Canada for many years before we came into office in 2015. They had waited for leadership and partnership. It is now a reality, meaning that we have a new era in housing.

We started in 2016 by investing historic amounts in housing, but more importantly, by helping Canadians, including all those hard-working Canadians who face difficult housing challenges in their lives, to not only have a roof over their heads but to participate fully in their communities.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Mr. Speaker, the motion before the House calls on the government to create 500,000 units of quality affordable housing within 10 years and to commit in budget 2019 to completing 250,000 of those units within five years. This is not a new idea. This was tried in the province of Ontario in the early nineties, when the then government created non-profit housing corporations. It sounded good at the time. They were going to build the types of housing accommodations being suggested by the motion.

The problem was that when the public found out that the government was funnelling money into these non-profit housing corporations, which had consultants, builders, people doing retrofits and repairing buildings and building new buildings, the costs shot up tremendously and cost the government a lot of money. The program did not work. It was an absolute failure.

Has the government considered or reviewed the non-profit housing philosophy that existed in the province of Ontario in the 1990s?

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

Mr. Speaker, I again thank my hon. colleague for his interest in housing, which is rather rare for a Conservative, but we can always do better and do more. I am pleased to hear that he cares about community housing issues.

Housing is more than just a roof over one's head; it is about being part of a community. It just so happens that, despite the difficulties that we know do exist, the non-profit community-based sector in Canada, especially in Quebec, plays a very important role. This role will continue to develop in partnership with the private sector. I would like to share a quotation that highlights the role of the private sector.

Kevin Lee, who is the chief executive officer of the Canadian Home Builders' Association, stated:

With regards to the Canada housing benefit, CHBA has long recommended measures to help low-income Canadians participate directly in the wider housing market.... This Benefit can provide them support and choice, rather than tying them to specific housing units.

We also have the support of municipalities and localities. The Federation of Canadian Municipalities stated:

The national housing strategy released...is a breakthrough for cities and communities from coast to coast to coast. This is the kind of federal leadership that local governments have been seeking for more than 20 years.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Sheri Benson NDP Saskatoon West, SK

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the minister's advocacy on this issue. I believe it is a tough job for the minister at the cabinet table to make sure that housing and homelessness stays a priority. I want to encourage him to continue that. Through my comments, I am asking him to step it up. Although we have started, I feel that we need more, sooner.

I would like to reiterate to the minister what I mentioned in my comments, which is that the Saskatchewan Party government has ended the rental supplement in Saskatchewan in anticipation of a federal Canada housing benefit. That is very concerning to me, and I imagine it is concerning to the minister. Could the minister follow up or comment on that? I think he would agree with me that it is not helping people and is not in the spirit of a provincial-federal agreement on housing and homelessness.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

Mr. Speaker, my colleague is correct that this is a joint responsibility and that we need collaboration with every government, including provincial and territorial. However, the most welcome and expected collaboration is with cities and municipalities, which will make this not only a success now but a success in the next 10 years.

Our national housing strategy supports many other objectives of our government, including gender equity. The YWCA said, on the national housing strategy, that a gender lens on the national housing strategy is a “game-changer for women and girls in Canada”.

I would add that the National Housing Collaborative, a key stakeholder in building a national housing strategy, said, “This is Canada’s first National Housing Strategy, and it’s a game-changer because of the size of the investment, the breadth of the policy, and the approach to how government will work with communities to shape housing going forward.”

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Mr. Speaker, I will start by practising charity at home and commiserate with the minister. I have worked with Habitat for Humanity as well, and I think we share the same level of skill in construction.

In November of last year, CMHC put out a report showing the impact of the $5.7 billion spent on affordable housing by the government since 2016. It showed that it built only 15,000 new affordable housing units and that 156,000 units had been renovated. That is a prodigious amount of money spent with so little to show for it. I wonder if the minister could comment on this part.

The private sector was not even worthy of a single mention in any of his commentary. It produces, on average, about 200,000 units of housing per year. There was very little focus on that.

The minister repeated the same figure of one million families helped, which has been lambasted in the media as absolutely false. Several professors have said that they cannot reproduce those numbers and that they are based on erroneous double counting. The member for Papineau repeated the same words.

I wonder if the minister could mention the private sector's role in ensuring housing that is affordable, how the stress test has made it unaffordable for millennials and young people to afford housing and how the $5.7 billion spent on affordable housing so far has produced only 15,000 affordable housing units.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

Mr. Speaker, maybe the member was distracted when I mentioned the chief executive officer of the Canadian Home Builders' Association, who said:

CHBA has long recommended [the Canada housing benefit] measures to help low-income Canadians participate...in the wider housing market.... This Benefit can provide them support and choice, rather than tying them to specific housing units.

That is a new and very important component of our initiative. I have been talking to homebuilders for many months, and they are delighted with the investments we will be making in collaboration with them, supporting their important work. They also say that much of the work of the private sector is in collaboration with Canadian municipalities. The mayor of Edmonton said:

we saw real and meaningful action thanks to strong leadership on this file from [the Prime Minister] and [the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development]. As a result, big city mayors across the country are celebrating the federal government’s bold re-engagement in housing after decades of inaction.

On the one million households, that is correct. Our investment, since 2016, has helped one million families, and therefore more than one million Canadians, through these important investments for renovating, constructing and supporting lower-income and middle-class families in having a decent place to call home.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to be the first on my side of the House, and hope not to be the last, to rise to speak about both affordable housing and housing that is affordable. I want to look at both sides of the equation. I know that the member who moved this motion has done a lot of work on this issue, and I do not want to take away from her work or belittle the work or the subject in any way.

With temperatures going so low, -42° or -43° in Regina, as Canadians, we can all agree that we should look after our neighbours and those around us who do not have permanent housing. We should look after our own and make sure that everyone has a place to stay during this cold winter spell. It is being called a polar vortex. I just call it Canadian winter. I have gotten used to it.

In my speech today on the subject, I want to make sure, being the first in my party to speak on this subject in this interim chamber, that I live up to the Yiddish proverb that says that no good comes from hurrying. I want to take some time to elaborate my thoughts on the subject of affordable housing. I think some of the things I mentioned and questions I posed to the minister are worth remembering.

One of the first things the Liberal government did was change the homelessness partnering strategy by eliminating the housing first targets. Those were proven targets to effectively reduce homelessness. They ensured that close to a million families had access to affordable housing. On that one million figure, the minister will know that reporters and professors have said that they cannot reproduce that number and that there is double and triple counting going on. Because it goes over multiple years, families are being over counted. That was a point raised by the leader of the NDP. The Liberals are patting themselves on the back for work they have not done, which I think all of us on this side of the House have gotten used to.

I raised the issue of the numbers being wrong on that CMHC report back in November. It looked at the $5.7 billion spent by the government, the so-called government spending on affordable housing. It had only built 15,000 affordable housing units, and about ten times as many had been renovated. That is a prodigious amount of taxpayer dollars spent on one problem, with so little to show for it. There is very little to show for it. Who is going to pay for this mistake? It will be the taxpayers of Canada. The taxpayers are going to be required to pay more and more for very few affordable housing units to be built.

The minister will quote certain builders in Canada who are pleased with the program. Of course they are pleased. They want to build homes. They are in the business of producing private-sector units, but they will sell them to whoever wants to buy them. The $5.7-billion figure for 15,000 affordable housing units is a pretty darn good deal for those doing the construction.

The government has created no pathways for home ownership for Canadians. That is leading to an affordable housing crisis. Housing affordability is an issue. It is an issue for young people and Canadian families, and the government has made it worse. The government has introduced a stress test of 2% on the posted rate that OSFI lenders have. The big six banks have a posted rate for mortgages. They say it is to reduce prices. That is what the Minister of Finance said, which is interesting, because it is not the regulator's job to reduce prices in any market in Canada. It is interesting that the minister admitted that there was a political reason for introducing the stress test for Canadian mortgages for those trying to get into their first homes, whether they be condos, townhouses or detached or semi-detached homes, like the ones in my riding.

I live in a suburban riding of Calgary. When I moved there back in 2005, there were entire communities that did not exist, such as Cranston and Mahogany, communities of 30,000 people each, the largest communities in Calgary, all suburban communities with multiple types of housing. Today I hear story after story about how the stress test on mortgages is causing people to either lose their homes during refinancing, because they simply cannot afford to continue living in their homes and pay the now higher mortgage interest rates, or to not get into the homes they need due to having kids or getting married and needing something bigger or downsizing. We see the impact in the numbers. In all of 2018, there were 20% fewer mortgages for young people, millennials or generation Z, whichever terminology you want to use.

When we talk about affordable housing and the housing affordability crisis in our country, the Liberal government is making it worse, with the carbon tax, higher taxes, nickel-and-diming Canadians. At the end of the month, Canadians have less money in their pockets, so how can they afford to save to invest in a unit they can live in? That is simple math.

Also, for those people who are trying to move into affordable housing units, how are they supposed to afford their day-to-day expenses and then save a little on the side so they can save for their own home? They cannot do it under the current government. The Liberals are making Canadians pay for the government's mistakes, and that is not right.

We on this side, the Conservatives, are in the business of planting seeds of success for Canadians, not the government deciding where people should live and what type of housing they should live in, and, as much as possible, allowing people the opportunity to find the housing choices they want and need. Some are unable to do so because events of life make it impossible, such as fleeing an abusive spouse or a job loss, which is happening a lot in my riding right now because of the war on energy jobs that the Canadian government has insisted on leading. I know people who have lost their homes. They find themselves in temporary housing. They are looking for affordable housing units. Some of it is rundown stock that has not been well maintained. Sometimes they just cannot find anything at a price they can afford to buy or to pay rent on, because rents have not come down all that much.

We are in the business of planting seeds. We want other people to have that success. We are also thinking about future generations. We are not a one generation party. We are looking at the long term. The member who tabled the motion talked about the government's commitment to build 250,000 housing units in five years. I looked at the total production of the private sector and how many units it was building and providing. It is a drop in the bucket. A lot of housing is needed. We have high immigration levels. A lot of people want to come to Canada, bring their families and start a family here. They want great paying jobs. They want to earn a living.

When my family came here, that was a big driver. It came down to Canada or Australia. I am very thankful my uncle chose to come to Canada. Canada was the first country to issue him a passport when he was waiting, almost homeless, to come to Canada. Thanks to that, my grandfather came here and the rest of our family was able to move here.

We do not intend to be a party that only looks at one generation. We want a Canada that is more than just a one generation society. Right now we have a government that is introducing a series of policies. It is never one thing. It is always nickel-and-diming. It is always a series of policies that lead to a situation where housing becomes unaffordable and there is simply not enough affordable housing.

The issue is supply. I compliment the NDP in at least identifying the crux of the problem, which is a supply problem. There is not enough housing being built to keep prices down. Ask Jack Mintz, one of Canada's premier tax professors, and he will say the same thing. It is basic economics. The more supply we have, the more it keeps prices down and controls pricing. Real estate is very much a regional or local good that is purchased. We rarely compare homes across two different cities or two different towns. Also, housing has become more expensive.

I want to talk more about the price of housing in Canada. That is a big driver of forcing people into situations where they need affordable housing, because they simply cannot afford to live anywhere else. We know about the problems in Toronto and Vancouver and how much prices have risen there. However, smaller communities, like the member who tabled the motion comes from and the one I come from, have been heavily impacted by things like the stress test, depressing the prices of the housing people are in already. Sometimes this leads them to have underwater mortgages, where they owe more than what they could get selling the house. It wipes them out financially. Those are policies of the Liberal government. Those are its own failures. In three short years, this is what it has managed to do.

If we were to build 50,000 units every year, it would be double what Canada used to see built in what we call the heyday of the 1970s and 1980s, when roughly 20,000 to 25,000 affordable rental units were created annually. Nowadays, about 200,000 units are being built all across Canada.

I have talked about affordable housing and housing affordability and why it is so important. Over 2018, we have seen the depression of prices in a specific segment of the housing market. Specifically single-family homes, residential properties, have gone down in pricing quite substantially, about 11.3%. Part of the reason for that are higher interest rates and the stress test. With regard to general affordability at the end of the month, Canadians have less and less in their pockets because of the government policy, which reduces their ability to meet their day-to-day needs. Some might consider moving into smaller units or something that is more affordable for them.

However, during the same time period, the largest price increases, 14.7%, were for townhouses and row units. Row units actually went up 6.5% according to CREA. The government has forced a group of people, people who could afford their own homes before, who would save money for themselves through their homes. We know that whatever type of housing people are in, if they are trying to get onto that property ladder and save money, paying interest and paying into the principal on the side, they are saving through their house. The house is a savings vehicle.

The government, through the stress test, changes to the mortgage rules, carbon taxes and higher daily costs of living, is suppressing the ability of people to meet the day-to-day needs and pay for their needs. People need to eat, heat their homes and pay their mortgages most of the time, whenever possible.

The government has moved an entire segment of the population down into row houses and townhouse and has pushed others out. Therefore, we have a crunch of people in between. We have those who are trying to get out of shelters and those who are trying to move out of affordable housing, maybe because the ones they are in do not quite suit their needs right now and they want to move into that first part of home ownership, the first townhome.

I know the first property I ever bought, as an older 20-year old, was a condo in Edmonton with my wife. It was the first piece of property we had, and we paid quite a bit for it. We were quite happy we were able to do that. We stretched our finances. Today, we would not be able to do the same thing. Today, like many people I know, my cousins, other family members and many young people I have talked to, cannot do that. They have no ability to get into first ladder of housing.

Speaking of young people, 54% say that it is more difficult to buy a residential property in the past year. That is according to Abacus data. What affects affordability? This is one of my favourite figures that the Abacus data has produced. Down payments are at 47%. People are having a hard time saving for that down payment. Can we blame them? We have carbon taxes and higher income taxes. The tax credits that families were using have been eliminated. Can we blame them for not having enough money at the end of the day to save a little on the side for that home, the townhouse, or the condo or apartment, whatever it is? The second figure of 44% represents the affordability of monthly payments. There are taxes, unemployment uncertainty, loan approval and foreign buyers.

Foreign buyers account for 10% of buyers in Vancouver. It is a very small part. We focus so much time on trying to chase down foreign buyers. We spend less time looking at how the rules are working in the local municipalities to make it possible for builders to provide housing that is affordable, to build affordable housing. How complex are the rules? When a neighbourhood is made more dense, the rules become more complex. A 30-storey, 80 to 90-unit condo block has much more complex rules because there are more people living within the same type of footprint.

We are getting into the granular, micro-level decision-making at the local level, which has an impact on the macro level of federal government policy making. Federal government policy making is having a drastic impact on the ability of Canadians to purchase the types of homes that meets their needs.

As I mentioned at the beginning, I have the very recent CMHC study from November that looks at the $5.7 billion spent on affordable housing by the Liberal government. It shows that 50,000 affordable housing units have been built since 2016. That is not me saying this. That is a government Crown corporation making a judgment call on what it is doing. It is important to remember that the government has numbers coming out of its own side which demonstrate that it is wrong.

We heard the minister again double down on the one million figure that has already been critiqued in the media. It has shown that it is actually not the case. Double and triple counting is going on. It cannot reproduce those numbers. It is incumbent upon the government to provide accurate information, to be clear about what the goals are and to not make taxpayers pay for its mistakes.

Under the Liberals, the cost of living has been raised and has accumulated record high deficits. We were supposed to have a surplus this year of a billion dollars. With a billion dollar surplus, we could build more affordable housing. We are going to be building affordable housing on borrowed money so future generations will have higher taxes to pay for today's needs.

I will return to the 2% stress test imposed by the government, which OSFI officials say was meant for the solvency of banks. For political reasons, the Minister of Finance said it was to suppress prices in Toronto and Vancouver. However, it has had a serious impact on Saskatoon, Regina, Calgary and Edmonton. Only three markets regionally have actually gained in prices: Ottawa, Montreal, Halifax. Twenty per cent mortgages are being denied by the big banks, sending borrowers down the credit ladder and taking on more financial risk.

I have met some of those people who have taken on more financial risk. I have met people who have gone bankrupt and then have gone into affordable housing because they have lost everything. They took a chance and then the compression, because of bad government policy making or over several years they may have lost their jobs, such as energy jobs, because the government decided pipeline construction and the oil sands and energy sector were not worthy of being championed by it or at least it getting out of the way. Now those people are finding themselves in affordable housing and going to the food banks to meet their day-to-day needs.

I volunteered at the food bank in Calgary and I met oil sands workers, trade workers, people who were proud of the work they used to do, proud of having been able to live the Canadian dream. Today they are finding it more difficult than ever to meet their day-to-day needs and to get back into the housing they need. They find themselves in affordable housing. Some find themselves in shelters. Others find themselves asking for money on suburban streets, something I have never seen before in Calgary.

On 130th Avenue, in my corner of the city in the deep southeast, is an area where we would have never seen homelessness before the downturn in the economy and the constant actions by the federal government to continue depressing the market and hurting Canadian energy jobs.

As the rules are written today for the stress test, as the carbon tax is being imposed today, as higher income taxes have started to hit middle-income families, this problem is only going to get worse, and the impact is harshest on young people. They are having the hardest time moving into housing that is appropriately priced and that meets their needs.

Last year, there was 20% less mortgage origination by young Canadians. At the same time, the greatest generation, the pre-war generation, great grandparents, are taking out 63% more mortgages than before. We can only assume what that means. If they are taking on more complex financial risks, they are making more complex financial decisions that could lead them into situations where they could find themselves in bankruptcy.

I agree with the intent and principle of the motion. We have to look at both sides of the issue: affordable housing and housing affordability. CMHC has laid it out. The government is just not doing enough with the money it has been given, has so little to show for it and taxpayers are footing the bill. That is not right. In October 2019, it has to change. Taxpayers cannot afford another four years of this.

The Liberals could have done so much more with $5.7 billion directed toward affordable housing. None of their programs are meeting the needs of Canadians and taxes will continue to go up. There is just no way the Canadian middle class and Canadian workers can continue to afford the Liberal government.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

Spadina—Fort York Ontario

Liberal

Adam Vaughan LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Families

Mr. Speaker, the one million household number has been used repeatedly today and I want to break it down so the House understands exactly what it means.

One million investments have been made out of the $5.7 billion this government has invested since 2015. In other words, we have put $5.7 billion into the housing system specifically for social and affordable housing. There has been one million specific investments attached to specific addresses made from that fund.

The numbers are important to understand. The 15,000 newly constructed units is an important one. That is new housing for new people. We have also repaired precisely 143,684 units. We have also subsidized individuals because affordable housing for some does not meet 30% of their income unless we provide subsidies above and beyond the affordability that is built into the project. We have provided 783,928 individuals with subsidies to sustain their housing at an affordable level. Without that subsidy they would not afford rent or be in deep poverty.

Additionally, we have provided both supports and rent for chronically homeless individuals, because some individuals need subsidies and supports such as mental health, addiction services, food as well sometimes and so on. For that, 28,864 distinct individuals have received support. When we total it up, one million investments have been made out of the $5.7 billion fund that have impacted and supported Canadians.

I agree with the member opposite that the construction numbers need to get up higher and faster, but when we are starting from nothing, getting new projects started takes two or three years' time because we have to acquire land, get approvals, build and then house people. However, when we do that, if we do not additionally provide subsidies the housing does not work for some individuals, so there will be layering, or as the NDP calls it, double counting, and they do not want to do that apparently, which I disagree with.

Supports, repairs, renovations, revitalization, as well as subsidies, constitute an intelligent and comprehensive housing system. When we do that, we have made one million investments. When we add to that the fact that there are 2.5 Canadians per average household in this country, I can say we have helped more than one million Canadians. We have preserved affordable housing, created affordable housing and supported affordable housing for well over one million Canadians through one million distinct investments through a $5.7 billion budget.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Mr. Speaker, I would say to the member again that the one million figure has been criticized by journalists and professors as double counting. Double counting is wrong when the government lumps in a whole bunch of different subjects to try to inflate a number so one of the bullet points in Liberal members' talking points can be filled. That is wrong. The government should not be doing that. It misleads Canadians.

The member also failed to mention what the private sector is doing. I did not mention this during my talk as I ran out of time unfortunately.

There is the parable of the Good Samaritan. We would not have remembered the Good Samaritan if he had no money in his pocket to pay those two denarius to the innkeeper to take care of the stranger. If there was a Good Samaritan today, he or she would not be able to afford the Liberal government. He or she would not have two denarius to help the stranger along the road to make sure the stranger had some housing to recover in.

That is what the Liberal government is doing. That is what is so wrong with running multi-year deficits when there is GDP growth going on and there is no recession, there is no war and there is no deep international recession. One could say these are decent years for GDP growth and the government is running multi-year, multi-billion dollar deficits, accumulating debt that future generations will have to pay. That is so profoundly wrong.

For the $5.7 billion that supposedly has been spent on affordable housing so far, the government has had three years. It is 2019.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Sheri Benson NDP Saskatoon West, SK

Mr. Speaker, the member had me at the beginning of his comments but not so much near the end.

I do want to bring to the House's attention the member's comments around housing first and the fact that budget 2018 was the first time the federal government moved away from making housing first part of the criteria around the homelessness partnering strategy. I want to acknowledge the previous Conservative government's commitment to that program, one of the only evidence-based ways to intervene in homelessness that has been proven effective.

Cities in Alberta really led the way. Both Conservative governments in Alberta invested highly in homelessness and they did that because the investment up front made for savings over the long term, because people did not have to access very expensive emergency services. I want to acknowledge the leadership of Alberta and of course Medicine Hat, which has actually eliminated homelessness.

I do understand not wanting to take a top-down approach but I also believe in evidence-based practice and that there does need to be some criteria when it comes to the homelessness partnering strategy that sticks to housing first. I may be offside with some but I really do believe that. I wonder if my colleague could comment.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Mr. Speaker, it was indeed a previous Conservative government that led the way with evidence-based policy-making on this. When the member was CEO of the United Way of Saskatoon, she went out in public to say this is the right way to go and that having targets in there makes it certain. It is a way for government to verify how the money is being spent, and that it is being spent in a way that can be adjusted later on to meet the needs of people who need it.

That is why I brought up the CMHC report, which talks about the $5.7 billion that was spent, the 15,000 affordable housing units that were built and the 150,000 that were renovated. To me, that seems like a really bad deal for taxpayers. It is too little for so much money.

It is pretty typical of the Liberal government. It is rinse and repeat. Almost every single policy the Liberals have introduced has been the same. They are not measured by the actual success on the ground and the facts on the ground, which are typically Conservative facts. They are measured by how much money the Liberals shovelled out the door. Then they pat themselves on the back for it.

I agree with the member. It should be about what works and what does not. I do not care about intent. I only care about what works.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have heard the member talk a number of times about the stress test with respect to mortgage lending. Given the way he talks about it, one would almost think that the government brought that test in and implemented it for no reason other than to just make life more difficult for Canadians.

However, as a matter for fact, if we look back historically, one of the reasons Canada was able to weather the 2008 recession better than our U.S. neighbours was that we had stricter rules in place when it came to mortgage lending than the U.S. did. We refused to put Canadians in a precarious situation that would have put them in the same position as a lot of our neighbours to the south.

Could the member comment on why he thinks it is so important to put Canadians into a precarious situation in which, if there is a downturn in the economy, they are not protected. Now they can continue to stay in their houses, and as a result, will not have to look for affordable housing.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for allowing me an opportunity to praise the previous Conservative government. In fact, it was Stephen Harper who led Canada through one of the worst international recessions.

The member is absolutely right. Stephen Harper ensured that we had a stable financial system that weathered the storm through the right type of policy-making, which was based on the evidence before us. This is not the stress test. The stress test is a one-size-fits-all tool that punishes Canadians from coast to coast to coast, regardless of the prices in their local markets. The member should know that.

It was meant to stabilize the banks, which is what the regulator said. His own Minister of Finance said just a few days ago that it was meant to depress prices in Toronto and Vancouver and keep them down. It has made things worse. It has made things unaffordable for those at the bottom of the market who are trying to move into their first home. It has impacted young people the worst, as there are 20% fewer mortgages originating from young people.

It is not about affordability. What the Liberals have done through this rule is outsourced policy-making to the marketing branch of the bank, as it is based on the posted rate, the 5% to 5.5% applied to the public by the bank. It is not based on the negotiated contract rate. That affects every single Canadian who is trying to refinance a mortgage. A widow carrying a HELOC, a home equity line of credit, and a mortgage, who is trying to sell her home after renovating it to reach its maximum value, is faced with a stress test. She therefore has to pay more interest.

What is the best part? When people fail the stress test and they are with a major bank, they can only get a mortgage with that lender. It is a deal for big banks, not for Canadians.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:40 a.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for South Okanagan—West Kootenay.

Let me also acknowledge and thank my colleague, the member for Saskatoon West, for the incredible work she has been doing based on her history and her background, the advocacy she brings to the table, the reasoned approach that she takes to housing with heart and compassion, and always pushing the government to do the right thing. I thank her for all of her efforts.

Housing is one of the most important issues from coast to coast to coast. We are talking about affordable housing that people can access as a home they can afford, a place where they feel safe and where they can thrive. The truth is that we have not had that for a very long time for far too many Canadians.

In 1993, the federal Liberal government cancelled the national affordable housing program. As a result, this country lost more than half a million units of affordable housing that would otherwise have been built by the non-profit sector or the co-operative sector. Just imagine for one minute what our communities would look like across this country in this housing crisis if we had an additional half a million units of affordable housing in our communities. We do not have those units because of that approach, the cancellation of the national affordable housing program by the federal Liberal government.

Since that time, the Conservatives took power and they did nothing about the affordable housing crisis. Therefore, the issue continues and more and more we see people in our communities today in desperate need.

I see this every day in Vancouver East, and it breaks my heart. I walk the streets of my community and there is an area called the Downtown Eastside where I literally have to step over people on the sidewalk because they are homeless. They do not have a place they can call home. Somehow, we think it is okay. Somehow, the government members can brag about how swell they are with their national strategy, which they say they have brought back. They pat themselves on the back and say, “Yay, we are so great.”

We then learn what they have done. They double count the numbers. I am not saying that the government should not be investing in subsidies. I am not saying it should not be renewing the agreements for the co-ops. Of course it should. It should have been doing that all along. The government never should have cancelled the national affordable housing program. The Conservatives should have done that job 10 years ago. Those non-profit and co-op sectors should not have been left to this late date for someone to come to support them. Subsidies were needed, not just now but all the way through. Many non-profit housing projects and co-op housing units had to raise their rents all through these years because they did not get subsidies from the government.

When the government members say they are doing their job and everything is going to be great, they should talk to the people who are on the streets today and ask them how great it is. When they see people in the community, as I have seen, who are vying for awning space to stay out of the rain because they are homeless and they are fighting over that, there is something very wrong with this picture. Not one of us should be patting ourselves on the back to say that we have done a great job, far from it.

Using rhetorical advantage and how they double count to make it sound good appears to be the Liberals' approach to pretty well everything. Just sound good and look good in front of the media, it does not matter what is really happening on the ground. Rhetorical advantage, by the parliamentary secretary's own admission, is what they are doing: counting and double counting so that they can sound good. That is their approach to addressing the affordable housing crisis.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Social Development I might add, admitted that this week, and it was reported in the Toronto Star.

I also have to say that he also admitted it when he appeared at the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration on July 24, 2018. There he agreed with my assessment of the colossal mistakes made by the Liberal government of the 1990s. Let me quote him on the record. He said:

I agree with the member from B.C. The mistakes that were made in the early 1990s devastated people in this country and created the national housing crisis. The policies over the last 10 years made it worse.

That is a direct quote from the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Social Development, admitting at committee that the Liberals created the national housing crisis, which was then exacerbated by the Conservatives because of their lack of action over the last 10 years.

What happened? Let us take a moment and look at the reality of what people are faced with.

Only 10% of housing construction has been for rental units. A crisis-level shortage of rental units has led to skyrocketing rental costs while working-class and middle-class wages stagnated.

In Vancouver East, my community in Vancouver, our rental vacancy rate is at 1%. In some areas it is at 0%. Imagine that an average cost for a one-bedroom apartment in Vancouver is $2,100.

In Vancouver, some 50% of people in the community spend far more than 30% of their total income on accessing safe, secure, affordable housing.

Housing is out of reach for people. I am not talking about French villas or anything like that; I am talking about a roof over their heads, a place that they can call home, a place that is safe.

In the Downtown Eastside community, we have some of the worst housing conditions. Some people compare it to third world housing conditions. These are the SRO—single-room occupancy—hotel rooms, which are 100 square feet and cockroach- and bedbug-infested. Some have no heat, no cooking facilities, no toilets or bathrooms, and unsafe conditions, yet those rooms have some of the highest costs per square foot, and the lowest-income and most vulnerable people rent them.

That is our reality, and even that housing stock is dwindling.

While the Liberals can sit back and say they are doing great and will flow 9% of the money after the next election to build new housing, I ask them to take a minute and think about the realities of today and what they mean for the people who need that housing now.

I had a constituent who came in asking for help. She lives in a home that is full of mould. Her doctors have said it is not safe for her and her son. However, she has no ability to find alternative affordable housing.

My colleague, the member for Timmins—James Bay, has been raising this issue for many of the people in the aboriginal community, the indigenous community, the Métis community, and what has the government done about that? It is as though it is all going to be okay because the money is going to flow after the next election. In the meantime, the health of people is at risk, and they are in danger. That is the urgency of what we are talking about.

I spent one night on the street, from dusk to dawn, with young people. I can tell members that I do not know how I survived that one night. Right after that I got pneumonia. I was sick for weeks. People live in those conditions because they have no other choice. That is the reality of our housing crisis.

Even young professionals are having a tough time making ends meet. They cannot afford to get affordable housing and live in their own communities, and owning a home is all but a dream for them.

It is time for action. That is why this motion speaks for us. That is why the NDP is calling on this upcoming budget to invest real money, flow the money now, build 250,000 units of affordable housing now and get people off the streets so that we can all do what is needed, what we are elected to do, which is to get these programs going and make a real difference in every community in this country.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

Spadina—Fort York Ontario

Liberal

Adam Vaughan LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Families

Mr. Speaker, having been referenced several times in that speech, let me assure the member opposite that in the early nineties I was damned angry with the Liberal politicians on this side of the House for cancelling housing programs. If members want to go back and look at the CBC archives to see my work as a reporter, or at Citytv and CP24, they will see me castigating every Liberal I could get my hands on provincially, federally and locally. It was absolutely wrong and it devastated housing systems in this country, and more importantly, devastated people.

However, when that party opposite rolled the dice with Stephen Harper and brought down a budget that had $2.7 billion in housing investments projected over the last 10 years, when it also killed the Kelowna accord and the national day care program, when that party rolled the dice for power instead of delivering services to people, I swore I would never forgive it.

I did not quit my job as a reporter and go to Disneyland on a vacation. I quit my job as a reporter and became a city councillor to fight bad housing policy being produced by all politicians in this country, and that is how I made it to city council. When I decided to run federally, it was to change the policy of the Liberal Party to create a national housing program, and I am damned proud of it.

What I am really proud of is that the riding the member represents has received the largest investment of any riding in this country out of the $5.7 billion, because the needs are greatest in her riding, where $17 million dollars has been invested. Virtually every new housing project that has been built in B.C. in the last six months—thanks to a provincial government that gets it and is co-operating and was one of the first to sign the agreement—has been delivered to the cities of Vancouver and Victoria to deal exactly with the problem she highlights.

What I would just once like to hear from the member is “thank you”.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:55 a.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Mr. Speaker, the member wants to be acknowledged and have people bow down and say “thank you, thank you, thank you”. Well, you know what? That is what we are elected to do—to do the job and make sure we do not cancel programs.

He says that when he was a reporter he was so damned angry at the Liberals. Where is that anger now? What he is advocating for and is fine with is to flow that money after the next election, as though time will stand still for the people who are standing outside in the freezing cold and need housing this very moment.

To make himself feel better, to make all Liberal members feel better, what do they do? They double-count. Why? It is for rhetorical advantage, to make himself feel better. Is that what this is all about? It is not. The people who need the housing need it now. Stop patting yourself on the back as though you has done them a huge favour by doing the—

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

Order.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Saskatoon—Grasswood.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Mr. Speaker, let us get back to a civilized debate.

We all know Canadians are paying more because of the Liberal government's failure. That is what the conversation is about today in the House.

I come from Saskatchewan, and we have had tough times, along with Alberta and western Canada. Those who are working have found out they are taking home less money because of government policies, such as CPP increases. If someone goes to the bank on the 15th, or happens to go to the bank today, they will find more deductions and less take-home pay.

Affordability is a big question. I have seen it in the food banks in my riding. I have seen it in the schools; schools are now feeding people in the morning and at lunch and providing a snack in the afternoon. It's about affordability. We all know money is not flowing. The government over-promised and under-delivered.

A year ago I went to Nunavut. The government could have had 15,000 homes there alone, but has done little or nothing rolling out the money in Canada's north. I wonder about the object and the vision of the government in the way it treats the people of Yukon, Northwest Territories and Nunavut, who probably need housing more than anyone else in this country.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:55 a.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting that the Conservatives say that we need affordable housing, need to act now and need those investments, but where were they in the last 10 years? They sure as heck did not do that after the Liberals cancelled the national affordable housing program.

By the way, they say housing is so important, but both the Liberals and Conservatives joined hands to vote against a motion that said that housing should be a basic human right, so when you Conservative members cry your crocodile tears, you should look at yourself in the mirror twice before you talk.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

I would encourage hon. members to direct their attention and speech to the Chair, and the use of the third-person mode is certainly preferred.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for South Okanagan—West Kootenay.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:55 a.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin by thanking the member for Saskatoon West for bringing forward this important motion on Canada's housing crisis and what the government should be doing to deal with it.

The housing crisis is widespread and very diverse across the country. It is different in every community, every city, every rural area. It goes from rising homelessness to ridiculously expensive housing markets that exclude first-time buyers to rural seniors who have nowhere to go when they want to downsize to low vacancy rates that are often exacerbated, at least in my riding, by online vacation rentals to crowded and often mould-ridden homes in remote indigenous communities.

When I meet with mayors, business people and service groups in my riding, the priority they bring to me is almost always the same. It is housing, housing, housing.

I recently met with the mayor of Trail, which is a small city with plenty of issues facing it. It is home to one of the biggest lead zinc-smelters in the world, which owned by Teck, so international mining markets are important to Trail. The cost of power for that smelter is very important to Trail. The local hospital is in the middle of a big renovation, which is important. The local police force is understaffed. However, when I asked the mayor what her biggest priority was, she said housing.

When I went up to the road to the town of Fruitvale, the mayor said that his priority was a project they were working on. It is an old school property they purchased and want to demolish to build housing. However, it will cost $1 million just to demolish the old school, and Fruitvale is a very small town.

Just down the road is the village of Montrose, where there are only 420 homes. It needs housing for its seniors so they can stay in Montrose as they age instead of having to move to Trail or Castlegar.

When I talked recently with employment agencies in Oliver, B.C., I heard that many local businesses could not fill openings. Hotels were hiring and senior care homes were desperate for employees. Restaurants had signs on the tables apologizing for slow service, because they only had one waiter working. The reason was that the people needed to fill these positions could not find housing, so they moved on.

The most ironic story in this vein is about a service agency in Penticton that received grant money to coordinate its affordable housing program. It hired someone, who arrived, but the person gave up the job because they could not find housing.

This is a crisis that is hitting the Canadian economy. There are very personal impacts, but it is also hitting our economy. It is expensive for Canada as a whole to have this crisis going on.

We have heard that in 1993 the federal Liberal government abandoned the housing sector, a situation maintained by both Conservative and Liberal governments since then. We have heard that 1.7 million Canadians live in core housing need, but I would like to provide a perspective from riding of South Okanagan—West Kootenay.

The South Okanagan “Vital Signs” report provides a report card on many aspects of life in the west part of my riding. The report gives housing a C-, based on low vacancy rates, high rent cost and high housing debt levels. The rental vacancy rate in the area is around 1%, about half the national average. As well, 50% of renters in my hometown of Penticton are paying more than 30% of their income on rent.

I used to live in a little village called Naramata. The average house price there is $740,000. In Penticton, it is only $476,000. Who can afford that? What kind of young couple can afford to buy a house for $470,000? That is the average cost of a house.

Just east of the Okanagan Valley is the Kettle Valley, which suffered catastrophic flooding this spring. This is another kind of housing crisis. The city of Grand Forks lost many homes and businesses to the high waters of the Kettle and Granby rivers. It has created an emergency need for housing, and the local city council and regional district board have been working tirelessly for months to meet this need. The provincial government has come through with millions of dollars, and local governments are waiting to hear back on a significant ask to the federal disaster mitigation and adaptation fund, which would allow them to proceed with long-term solutions.

One of the big issues in rural areas is providing housing for seniors who want to stay in their hometowns and scale down to smaller homes so they do not have to take care of their large acreages. Much of my riding is rural, and a good example of that is the beautiful Slocan Valley. About 98% of the housing there is single detached homes.

About half of the Slocan Valley population is over 50 years of age now, and that proportion will increase dramatically over the next decade. About a quarter of those seniors are living below the poverty line. There are wait-lists of over 10 years to get into subsidized non-market housing in Nelson and Castlegar. As one community member put it, there is a community hall every 10 kilometres in this valley. We have schools and graveyards, but little to address seniors' housing needs and supports in between.

The Slocan Valley Seniors' Housing Society stepped up to the plate, and I want to spend some time outlining what this small but energetic and talented group of citizens, many of them seniors themselves, has accomplished. They started with plans for a 10-unit lodge in the community of Passmore. A massive community effort raised over $600,000 to help make Passmore Lodge a reality. Seniors and people of all ages hiked for housing around the silvery Slocan, a 250-kilometre loop, raising over $50,000.

Local sawmills donated the construction lumber and huge beams for the central common area. The beautiful birch cabinets and all the wainscotting were made locally. The common room's tables and chairs were designed and built by a Kootenay School of the Arts student. An agreement was negotiated with a general contractor to hire local EI reach-backs for some of the construction crew, bringing the costs down. The Real Estate Foundation and Vancouver Foundation dug deep, and the Columbia Basin Trust saw this community effort and stepped up. Finally, a $940,000 mortgage and an operating agreement were secured with BC Housing, and Passmore Lodge was opened in 1999.

Inspired by that success, the society immediately began plans for a similar project in the village of Slocan and has recently opened 12 units of affordable housing there. These are in very small communities. These huge efforts have been successful.

There are other success stories like that around my riding. In Okanagan Falls, the South Skaha Housing Society is building 26 units of affordable housing, and similar projects have gone on in Naramata and other communities.

I would like to move now to the topic of homelessness, which is a crisis within this housing crisis. Many might associate homelessness with urban areas, but it is just as tragic a situation in smaller towns and cities. We need government and community agencies to come together and simply create homes for the homeless.

Penticton has become a model case for this co-operative, integrated approach. An initiative called 100 Homes has brought together more than a dozen groups with a clear vision to house the homeless, and their project has been very successful. They have already exceeded their goal of 100 homes, having produced 133 units as of last July. They are now in the process of setting new goals, with a view to housing all of the 400 people in need in Penticton.

One of the valuable lessons that 100 Homes has learned in the past months is that funding is needed for support services, as well as the housing units themselves. Given both social support and a roof over their heads, many homeless people can quickly return to normal lives. Everywhere I go in my riding, I find groups that are doing amazing work for the homeless and other disadvantaged people.

In Trail, Career Development Services has a getting to home program that provides critical support for individuals who need to find a home. In Castlegar, there is Chrissy's Place, named in honour of Chrissy Archibald, a young woman who had dedicated her life to helping the homeless before being killed in a terrorist incident in London. While the focus of Chrissy's Place is not just on the homeless, it provides a wide range of supports for people in need through the Castlegar & District Community Services Society.

We need bold action from the government now to tackle this housing crisis. We have done it before. I grew up on a Veterans' Land Act subdivision in Penticton. I still live in the house I grew up in. After the war, the government built many thousands of homes across this country, to help the people returning from war and to rebuild this country. We can do that again. I am very happy to support this motion.

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:05 p.m.

Spadina—Fort York Ontario

Liberal

Adam Vaughan LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Families

Madam Speaker, I thank the member opposite for highlighting the complexity of rural or small community housing programs, which are just as important to protect Canadians as those in large cities. In fact, we know that when we do not invest heavily in rural and smaller communities, it migrates into larger urban centres as people come looking for work and for housing. It just makes the situation even more complex, and it also depletes the numbers of useful and participating citizens and employees in those regions. We know it is a significant issue.

I would also remind the member opposite that we have invested heavily in his riding. In fact, $11 million has gone to support people through rent supports and renovations, and, as he said, with some new housing programs. If the NDP members think I am satisfied with $40 billion, let me assure them that if I can get more, I will fight for more. In fact, in the last budget we added an extra $1.5 billion for indigenous housing and another $1 billion for rental housing construction supports. We are on the verge of identifying even new funds for indigenous urban housing programs. The housing program is continuing to build because our commitment continues to build as we recognize and partner with new opportunities.

Do NDP members understand that it is not double counting when we make investments in subsidies for rent and investments in supports for people who are homeless, who may need supports to stay housed, and when we also renovate the housing? Those are three distinct investments that may be counted as three distinct investments. They may assist one household, but they also may assist six people living in that—

Opposition Motion—Affordable HousingBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:10 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

There is only enough time for a couple of questions, so I would ask the members to keep their preamble short.

The hon. member for South Okanagan—West Kootenay.