Debates of April 9th, 2019

(Return tabled)

Questions Passed as Orders for Returns

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Finally, Mr. Speaker, I ask that all remaining questions be allowed to stand.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Is that agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

Alleged Process Used to Determine Liberal Caucus Membership

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I have a notice of a question of privilege from the hon. member for Markham—Stouffville. I understand that it touches on something on which there was a ruling yesterday. I trust that she will address this and advise the Chair about how she feels this affects her privileges.

[Jane Philpott, Independent, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a question of privilege concerning my recent expulsion and the expulsion of the member for Vancouver Granville from the Liberal caucus and a breach of the Parliament of Canada Act.

The question of privilege concerns a breach of my rights, the rights of the member for Vancouver Granville and other members' rights. While respecting the confidential nature of caucus discussions and my and the member for Vancouver Granville's obligations to maintain confidentiality of caucus discussions, how do I know that mine and my colleague's rights were breached?

On November 5, 2015, section 49 of the Parliament of Canada Act required Liberal MPs to vote four times. These four votes were to be recorded.

On March 21, 2019, the hon. member for Scarborough—Guildwood confirmed in a Toronto Star article that with respect to the four required votes, “Nothing like that ever happens in caucus....” As such, this would mean that one of the recorded votes that did not occur was the rule concerning caucus expulsions. This also means that one of the recorded votes that did not occur was the rule for readmission of a member to the caucus.

When the Prime Minister and his office prevented Liberal members of Parliament from exercising their rights under section 49.8, they violated the rights of Liberal members in three ways.

First, the Prime Minister deprived members of their right under right under section 49.8 to vote four times in a recorded manner.

Second, in depriving members of their right to vote, the Prime Minister denied members the opportunity to adopt the rules in sections 49.2 and 49.3 concerning caucus expulsions and caucus readmittance respectively. In doing so, the Prime Minister deprived members of their right to determine the expulsion of a caucus colleague on a secret ballot vote and their right to determine the readmittance of a Liberal member to the caucus on a secret ballot vote.

Third, in denying members their right to vote and adopt the expulsion rule in section 49.2 and the readmission rule in section 49.3, the Prime Minister denied members being considered for expulsion or readmission the right to a due process, one that is not ad hoc, not arbitrary nor unlawful.

With respect to expulsion specifically, section 49.2 lays out a clear process for expulsion and the bar is deliberately set high. First, at the time, on April 2, at least 36 Liberal MPs would have had to write to the caucus chair requesting an expulsion. Second, a majority of the entire caucus, not just a majority of MPs present, would have had to vote in favour of expulsion in a secret ballot, an absolute majority.

In other words, on April 2, 2019, when I and the member for Vancouver Granville were expelled by the Prime Minister, the Liberal caucus had 179 members, which means that at least 90 Liberal MPs would have been required to vote in favour of expulsion in a secret ballot. If only 120 MPs showed up to vote, 90 votes in favour of expulsion would still have been required.

The Prime Minister stated at the April 2 open meeting of the Liberal caucus and on national television that he had taken the decision to expel the honourable members from caucus. The Prime Minister added that he had met with me and the member for Vancouver Granville to inform us of his decision. This confirms that we were expelled prior to the commencement of the Liberal caucus meeting.

The Prime Minister's words that night to the Liberal caucus are important to underscore because expulsion should not be his decision to take unilaterally. However, the decision had been already made.

Members of Parliament are not accountable to the leader; the leader is accountable to members of Parliament. This is a constitutional convention.

I cannot adequately underscore how important this part of the confidence convention is. In fact, it is so critical to the functioning of our institutions that the last Parliament decided to take part of that unwritten constitutional convention and enshrine it in legislation to make an amendment to the Parliament of Canada Act.

This question of privilege is timely. Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, you ruled on a question of privilege raised by the member for Perth—Wellington. Respectfully, that response does not address our situation nor our concerns.

First, the response to the question from the member for Perth—Wellington concerned the member for Whitby, who resigned from caucus and was not expelled. This is not the circumstance with respect to myself or the member for Vancouver Granville.

Second, we are not asking that the House deal with the possible expulsion of a specific member of caucus as a question of privilege. Rather, the matter of privilege is with respect to knowing which rules apply with regard to expulsion and readmission. This is necessary in order to ensure due process, fairness and that the rule of law is respected.

The Speaker's response to a point of order raised on December 10, 2015, by the member for Wellington—Halton Hills indicates that the chair of the Liberal caucus did indeed inform the Speaker in accordance with section 49.8(5) of the Parliament of Canada Act, but that the content of such notice would not be made public. The Speaker stated, “all actions required by the act to be taken by the Speaker have been taken.”

Recently, my hon. colleague, the member for Vancouver Granville, inquired of the Liberal caucus chair, the member for Lac-Saint-Louis, by email, no less than four times, asking for clarity on the rules that applied respecting expulsion from the Liberal caucus. We anticipated that expulsion was imminent as was being reported in the media. The expulsions have now taken place, however we still do not know the rules and so cannot determine if they were followed.

Notwithstanding the Parliament of Canada Act, the rules of this place, points of order, or questions of privilege or inquiries we have made of our former colleagues, both myself and the member for Vancouver Granville still do not know what rules applied to our expulsion, nor what rules would apply to any readmission.

Third, we acknowledge, Mr. Speaker, that you have stated that you have no role in the interpretation of a statute or in the conduct of these 2015 provisions, but with respect, it is our view that this does not relieve you of your responsibility to ensure that all members are aware of their rights in this place. This is our privilege. Accordingly, a remedy is required for our situation. This matter is urgent and cannot wait for new Standing Orders. Procedural fairness and the rule of law demand this.

Secret in-camera meetings or private notices should not be a shield to prevent the upholding of the law and members' rights. I ask that you find a prima facie case of privilege, Mr. Speaker, to ensure that the rights of members, both for expulsion and readmission, are upheld and are consistent with the law.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I thank the hon. member for Markham—Stouffville for raising her argument. While I am left with the difficulty, as I said in my ruling yesterday, that the Speaker is not empowered to enforce statutes, I will certainly consider her argument and come back to the House.

Bill C-88—Time Allocation Motion

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

moved:

That, in relation to Bill C-88, an act to amend the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act and the Canada Petroleum Resources Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts, not more than one further sitting day shall be allotted to the consideration at second reading stage of the bill; and

That, 15 minutes before the expiry of the time provided for Government Orders on the day allotted to the consideration at second reading stage of the said bill, any proceedings before the House shall be interrupted, if required for the purpose of this order, and, in turn, every question necessary for the disposal of the said stage of the bill shall be put forthwith and successively, without further debate or amendment.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Pursuant to Standing Order 67.1, there will now be a 30-minute question period.

I invite hon. members who wish to ask questions to rise in their places so the Chair has some idea of the number of members who wish to participate in this question period.

The hon. member for Chilliwack—Hope.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Mr. Speaker, once again the government is shutting down debate in the House of Commons. As I will remind Liberals once again, this is something they promised in their platform that they would not do, yet here we are.

Today, the Liberals are proposing to ram through a bill that would take away tools from northerners who want to control their own destiny. This reminds us of what they are doing with other bills, like Bill C-69. They are making it impossible for development to occur in the natural resource sector.

As we have seen, the Premier of the Northwest Territories, Bob McLeod, has rejected the approach of the government. It is a unilateral approach whereby Ottawa knows best and the southern government in Ottawa is telling the northern governments how they can operate, trying to turn the north, quite frankly, into one big national park.

Could the minister responsible for this portfolio respond to the concerns of Premier McLeod and others, who believe that northerners should make decisions about natural resource development in their territories? Why is the government doing everything it can to shut down natural resource development in the country, particularly in the north?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Madam Speaker, we are debating why we need to put time allocation on this important legislation. We are doing so because the opposition chooses not to find a way forward.

Since the member opposite has done a fairly decent job at misrepresenting the legislation, I will remind Canadians that Bill C-88 responds to concerns raised by indigenous governments and organizations in the Mackenzie Valley, specifically the proposed restructuring of the land and water boards of the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act.

Following the general election in October 2015, Canada committed to exploring ways to address the concerns raised about restructuring provisions. When it comes to these restructuring provisions, conversations took place between different levels of government. The Conservatives were a part of those.

When the Conservatives introduced legislation, they brought in the super board concept. That is why the Conservative government at the time was taken to court. It lost that court case because northerners did not support that approach.

However, northerners support our approach and we believe it should receive swift passage. Unfortunately, we have to move time allocation because the Conservatives will do whatever they can to block the important work that benefits northerners, especially when it comes to this legislation.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Madam Speaker, it is sad to note that this is now the 60th time that closure has been imposed by the Liberal government. I remember that back in 2015, the Prime Minister promised he would take a new respectful approach to Parliament. Unfortunately and sadly, yet again closure is being imposed in the House. We are seeing a real betrayal of the election commitments that were made.

We in the NDP support the bill, but we have also been consistently raising concerns about the fact that there is not a single reference to the United Nations Declaration on the Right of Indigenous Peoples in it. There are flaws in the bill. The government has refused to entertain amendments and it is refusing, in any way, to entertain improvements to the bill.

This is the heart of the problem. Commitments that were made in 2015 have been steadfastly broken. The government is not respecting Parliament at all.

Why is the government being so dysfunctional regarding improving legislation and being so dysfunctional in the House of Commons?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Madam Speaker, technically, time allocation can only be used when we cannot find a way forward. The fact that I have had to use time allocation is a reflection on the way he chooses to represent his benches. If we could have found a way forward, we would not have had to move time allocation.

There was a time when NDP members would recognize the importance of legislation, but they have been holding hands with the Conservatives now for so long that they have forgotten their ways.

I would remind those members that it was the NDP that held hands with the Conservatives to ensure we did not have the Kyoto accord. It was the NDP that held hands with the Conservatives to ensure we got rid of Kelowna, which was an important accord that would advance indigenous communities. It was the NDP that held hands with the Conservatives to ensure there was no national child care plan. Today, the NDP House leader continues to hold hands with the Conservatives, rather than get to work on advancing important legislation.

I am more than willing to find a way forward and not have to use time allocation.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Madam Speaker, here we go again with the government shutting down debate, just as it has done for the last number of days when we have tried to ask for an emergency debate on the canola issue in the Prairies.

This is an emergency situation for these farmers. They are trying to decide what they can plant or should plant and what their livelihoods or potential future could be. However, the government continues to throw out these delay tactics, moving to Orders of the Day so that we cannot introduce these requests. Today the government refused to allow an emergency debate when it was asked for, when we finally had the opportunity to ask.

Again and again the government throws up roadblocks to any reasonable debate and discussion in this House.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Madam Speaker, when the Conservative Party is going to, nationally, make comments that it will do whatever it can to disrupt the House of Commons to ensure that the government cannot advance the mandate it was provided by Canadians, yes, I will use the limited tools I have available to ensure that we show up to work and advance legislation that will make a difference in the lives of Canadians.

That member made a fairly rich comment just now with regard to an emergency debate. There have now been two opportunities when the opposition could have raised an emergency debate request. Last Friday, not a single Conservative stood up during the rubric under Routine Proceedings for an emergency debate, and no one asked for it. Members know that it would be a decision for the Speaker to rule on. Today, once again, the Conservatives chose to stand up under Motions rather than stand up under Request for Emergency Debate.

For the Conservatives, the issue is not an emergency, and that is exactly why they asked no questions in question period, yet they are making a mockery of the system by thinking it is a light issue. It is a serious issue when it comes to our farmers. Canola is a serious matter. The government will respond.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Madam Speaker, we keep seeing this happening with the Liberals, who shut down debate and then speak to the content of the bill we would all like to be debating here.

What is the whole point of this bill we are supposed to be debating, except that the Liberals would rather shut down debate? It is about giving a voice to people What is the purpose of shutting down the debate? It is to take away the voice of people.

I regret the day my former colleague Dennis Bevington was not re-elected. Why? It is because we never hear a voice for the north in this place anymore. All the representatives of the north are either Liberals or, now, an independent. It is very sad. In the previous term I was in office, we spoke regularly in this place about the north and the need for the protection of the resources and the protection of the environment and particularly about giving a voice to the people of the north. Contrary to what is being expressed by the Conservatives, that is exactly what they did in their bill. They shut down those local voices.

I would prefer that we spend the time in the House talking about the need to give a voice to northerners instead of debating another shutdown of voices for democracy.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Madam Speaker, if that member has the permission of her leadership, because I am sure she will not get to speak on her own, she will have plenty of time today to actually debate this important legislation.

When it comes to Bill C-88, it is important to note that it is the result of co-operative, conciliatory discussions that resulted in an agreement to repeal the restructuring provisions in the Northwest Territories Devolution Act. The Government of the Northwest Territories supports these amendments. Indigenous governments and organizations in the Northwest Territories want these amendments. The mining industry that conducts its business in the territory has indicated its support for these changes.

These conversations and discussions have taken place. It is northerners, it is the Northwest Territories, who are asking us to move quickly on this legislation. If that member wants to talk about it, she will have plenty of time today to talk about it. Northerners need action. They need this legislation to go to committee so that we can act. Enough with the talking. Let us move this legislation along. The opposition needs to stop playing games. Let us get to work.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Madam Speaker, the hon. government House leader will know that being in the position of the Green Party in this Parliament means that we are not part of the discussion.

I sympathize with her concern that we do not have goodwill in planning expediting legislation in this place. However, I really must protest that we cannot continually have time allocation. The debates on bills are shut down far too often.

I support this legislation. I think it is important to get it through the House. However, on the use of time allocation, and I know the member just referred to her having limited tools, a government in this place with the majority of the seats has the ultimate tools all the time. It is very frustrating for members in positions such as mine and for other members who are not part of the two larger opposition parties to try to have our voices heard on legislation.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Madam Speaker, I agree with the member that we should not have to use time allocation. Everyone knows that when I need to use time allocation, I do it with sincere regret, because I would rather find a way forward. I can assure the member that we will do our best to accommodate her to ensure that her voice is heard in this place.

I can speak to the efforts we have made with many members who are not considered recognized parties in this place to ensure that they can represent their constituents. Whenever we are able to share some of the time provided to us, I am more than willing to do that. I agree that the member should be able to be on the record. She represents her constituents, like everyone else. I will do my best to ensure that she is given that opportunity.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Madam Speaker, it is unfortunate that we have come to this situation in this place. Bill C-88 is yet another anti-energy policy the Liberals are trying to bring in. They are driving investment out of Canada's north. Just like Bill C-69, Bill C-88 politicizes oil and gas extraction by expanding the power of cabinet to block economic development and add to the increasing levels of red tape, hampering investment in the north.

I was at the AME Roundup in Vancouver a few months ago and spoke with numerous mining professionals and people inside the mining and oil and gas extraction industries. They are quite frustrated with the Liberals' plan to take power from the people of northern Canada, in the Northwest Territories in particular. Making the Northwest Territories basically a part is not a way to solve the issues of economic development in Canada's north.

The people spoke loud and clear at that conference. I would like to hear the Liberals' plan for solving the poverty rates in the Northwest Territories if they are actually hampering the industry that could provide jobs, opportunity and wealth.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Madam Speaker, I agree that it is unfortunate that we have to use these tools. I would encourage the member to perhaps talk to his leadership team to find a better way forward. Let us also understand why we are where we are today.

It was the previous Conservative government, with its rush to weaken environmental reviews and trample on land claims and indigenous governments, that, overall, put a cloud of uncertainty over the regulatory regime in the Northwest Territories. The Conservatives added a few extra clauses to the Northwest Territories Devolution Act in 2014 to amend the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act. These changes were made to restructure the land and water boards. What they meant by “restructure” was eliminating the regional panels that had been in place and effective for years and that are a significant component of indigenous participation.

The member talks about participation. The Conservatives did whatever they could to bring in a concept of super-boards to take those rights away. They were challenged in court, and they lost. We were elected. We did not appeal that decision, because we knew it was the wrong approach. Therefore, we are trying to correct that.

It is important that we move forward on this bill as quickly as possible to bring clarity to environmental assessment processes in the Northwest Territories for those wanting to benefit from economic opportunities in the north, including indigenous peoples and all northerners. This brings the clarity—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Questions and comments, the hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Madam Speaker, I want to come back to the question I asked earlier that the government House leader has not responded to. I must say that I find the tone the government House leader is adopting in the House to be very disrespectful. All members of Parliament have a responsibility to stand up for their constituents. Whether we are Liberals, Conservatives, New Democrats, Greens, Bloc members or independents, we all have the best interests of the country in mind. The government House leader casting aspersions on all members of Parliament I find completely inappropriate.

I asked earlier why the Liberal government is not supporting the amendments the NDP wanted to bring forward to have references to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and to include intervenor funding. These are things that have been sent forward. The Liberal government, to date, has absolutely refused to entertain them, and the use of closure today indicates, unfortunately, a trend to try to ram this through committee.

Will the government support these amendments, yes or no?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am on the record numerous times in the House, as well as outside the House, saying that I have a lot of respect not only for this place but for all members of Parliament. I recognize and acknowledge that all member of Parliament have the best interests of their constituents and the country at heart. Whether I agree or not, I believe that when people make decisions, they do so in the belief that those decisions are in the best interests of the country. I have always said that, and I will continue to say that.

I do not need it to be mansplained to me. It is unfortunate that the member does not like my tone. It is my voice. I work hard for my constituents in the same way I am sure he and every member of Parliament does.

That member should take partial responsibility for our being in this situation. He and the opposition House leader do not want to find a way forward on legislation. They have publicly stated that they will do whatever they can to disrupt the work we are doing in the House, because they do not want to see us advance legislation.

This legislation is at second reading. It will be debated all day today, and then it will go to committee, where committee will be able to look at it.

This legislation would undo the restructuring the Conservatives brought in. That needs to be corrected. That is what northerners are asking for. That is what the people of the Northwest Territories are asking for. We have committed to getting it done. We would like to find a way forward. Unfortunately, the NDP is not willing to provide it.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Madam Speaker, I rise frustrated by the responses of the government House leader. She is trying to tell Canadians why we are in this situation right now. The reason we are here is that we have a government that, instead of doing the work it is supposed to be doing, is obsessed with its scandals and selfies.

This government is actually one of the worst functioning governments since the 1920s. The Liberals are not working with anyone. They are not getting any of the legislation that is important to Canadians put through. They are shutting down debate once more on a very important bill.

Regardless of what the House leader is saying, let us look at the facts. Bill C-88 reveals a full rejection of calls from the elected territorial leaders for increased control of their natural resources by giving the federal cabinet the ability to block oil and gas projects. These are key economic activities in the north. This top-down, paternalistic action of the Liberal government would do nothing to reduce poverty in the north.

This is just another sign that the Liberal government is obsessed with what it feels is important: the selfies and the scandals that are going on. Canadians expect us to debate bills in the House, debate them for northerners, so we can get some economic activity and decreased poverty in the north.