House of Commons Hansard #401 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was north.

Topics

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Liberal

Bardish Chagger Liberal Waterloo, ON

Madam Speaker, the member's comments have just confirmed that he has not read the bill and is not aware of what we are debating right now. This legislation would increase local autonomy. It would give back what the Conservatives tried so hard to take away.

The member talks about poverty and all these factors. Let the record once again show that since this government came into office, close to 300,000 children have been lifted out of poverty because of the tax-free Canada child benefit, which the Conservatives voted against. Over 800,000 Canadians have now been lifted out of poverty.

I recognize that there is definitely a lot more work to do. That member represents a community that is going through challenging times. We want to be able to provide support. These are the kinds of programs that actually provide those supports.

We have an economy today that has created 900,000 jobs. Canadians have those jobs because of our investments. Every single investment we have made, the Conservatives have voted against. Conservative members take quite literally their job as the opposition. Their job is to hold the government to account. That does not mean they have to oppose every single thing, and that does not mean we cannot be productive.

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Madam Speaker, I have been listening to this debate, and it has become clear to me that the government House leader is talking exactly from the same page as the Prime Minister. They will not take responsibility for their actions.

The truth of the matter is that the Liberal government's agenda is to try to bring forward the work that needs to be done, and it has failed to do so. Who do the Liberals blame? They blame everyone else. In that process, they are exerting something they said they would not do during the 2015 election. I remember, because I was a new candidate at that time. They said that they would not copy the ways of Harper, that they would not shut down debate, yet time and time again they have shut down debate.

What is the NDP trying to do with respect to this legislation? We are trying to do something the government says is its top priority on the question around reconciliation. What do we want to see in the bill? We want to see amendments that recognize exactly that, the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. The Liberals refuse to allow it, and now they are shutting down debate.

When will the government House leader and her government take responsibility for their actions for a change?

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Liberal

Bardish Chagger Liberal Waterloo, ON

Madam Speaker, I have an open door policy and I try to find a way forward. I will take responsibility for being unable to find a way forward. The New Democrats and the Conservatives did not want to offer a way forward so, yes, I am using time allocation to advance this legislation.

This bill responds to indigenous concerns respecting the legislative and regulatory framework flowing from their constitutionality, protected land claims and self-government agreements. This is what is being asked for. That is exactly why we are advancing this piece of legislation, and we are going to do it by using time allocation because the Conservatives and the New Democrats refused to provide a path forward.

That member and the NDP should definitely take responsibility for abolishing the Kelowna accord as well as the Kyoto protocol. That member and the NDP should take responsibility for turning the clock back on Canada and allowing Stephen Harper to have the platform to do it. When that member takes responsibility, we will actually be able to find a way forward in a better way. Yes, I chose to move time allocation. I take responsibility.

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I want to remind members that when someone has the floor, other members who have questions and comments to add will wait until it is the time for questions and comments.

The hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I find it interesting to listen to the questions at this point. It is important that we highlight that the New Democrats have actually supported time allocation. We have seen them support time allocation. They recognize bills that are important to them and then they get behind time allocation. The Conservatives support time allocation.

We need to realize that from the government's perspective there are many bills that are high priorities for this government, and northern Canada is important to the Government of Canada. That is one of the reasons we once again have to use this tool. I wonder if the government House leader can just emphasize why at times we need to be able to use time allocation so we can get important work done for Canadians.

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Liberal

Bardish Chagger Liberal Waterloo, ON

Madam Speaker, that was a really good question because it allows us to explain the limited tools we have available.

We have debated this piece of legislation in the past, and there was no desire to see it move forward, so I was more than willing to call it back up again. I still have not been provided any insights from the opposition parties as to how much time they would like. Therefore, we are using the tool of time allocation.

This legislation is at second reading stage. After we vote on it, if and when it passes, it will go to committee. The committee will be able to study and scrutinize this legislation to ensure that it responds to the desires of northerners and people in the Northwest Territories, because that is the area that is directly implicated and affected by this legislation. That legislation would then come back to the House for third reading.

This is therefore the beginning of the process, and we would just like to see it move on to committee so the committee can do its important work as well.

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11 a.m.

Conservative

Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON

Madam Speaker, as we are hearing from the Liberals, every issue they are having is always somebody else's fault, whether it is Omar Khadr's $10.5-million payment, the SNC-Lavalin scandal, the Prime Minister's disastrous trip to India or the failure to get the Trans Mountain pipeline built, or any pipeline for that matter. It is always somebody else's fault.

However, I will speak to Bill C-88, which, I want to point out for the member opposite, repeals the restructuring of the four land and water boards, which the member opposite said very emphatically that she is against, and reintroduces regulatory provisions that were included in the Conservative government's Bill C-15. I would like to remind this House and the member opposite that when Bill C-15 was debated in the previous Parliament, Liberals, including the Prime Minister, voted in favour of the restructuring.

The current Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Intergovernmental and Northern Affairs and Internal Trade, speaking to Conservative Bill C-15 on February 11, 2014, stated, “As Liberals, we want to see the Northwest Territories have the kind of independence it has sought.”

Why does the Liberals' tone change now? Why all of a sudden are they against giving the north the power to control its own destiny and providing jobs, opportunity and wealth to make the north strong again?

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Bardish Chagger Liberal Waterloo, ON

Madam Speaker, it is important to note that Bill C-88 is the result of co-operative conciliatory discussions that resulted in an agreement to repeal the restructuring provisions of the Northwest Territories Devolution Act. The member is correct when he said the Conservative government did important work when it came to this matter. However, what the member seems to forget is that it tried to go further by restructuring a system that was already working. It put forward measures that would create this concept of superboards, which northerners and the people in the Northwest Territories were opposed to. However, because it was trying to diminish environmental assessments and whatever else, it figured it would sneak a couple of these things in.

Therefore, the Conservative government was taken to court. When it was taken to court, it actually lost that case. This is something that happened not that long ago, and this legislation responds to it. I hope the member understands that because the previous government tried to sneak in a couple of extra points, it was taken to court and lost. It lost in court because that was the wrong thing to do. We are correcting that wrong.

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Madam Speaker, the government House leader is very eloquent. She can choose to use that in an effective way, either by advancing the government agenda or by toxically insulting each member of the House as members raise questions. For the life of me, I cannot understand why she is choosing the latter course. The reality is that she is throwing out an array of drive-by insults when members of Parliament ask very legitimate questions about the use of closure by the current government.

In 2015, there was a commitment to make Parliament work. We all remember “sunny ways”. Instead, we are seeing, on the floor of the House of Commons, a completely inappropriate and toxic approach to the parliamentary work that we all must do in common.

I have not, in the weeks since I became House leader, had a single proposal from the government about how to move forward. There have been no proposals from the government to the opposition parties.

Also, when the government House leader suggests that I have in some way said I am going to use procedural tools to block Parliament, that is simply false and she should retract it.

I will ask my question again. Why is the government opposing the reference to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples in this bill, and why is it invoking closure?

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Bardish Chagger Liberal Waterloo, ON

Madam Speaker, I do not want to say anything, because it feels like the member is offended by anything I comment on or say. I will tell the member that I have not attacked or commented on any individual member of this place. Members choose to do their own work. They represent their constituents no differently from how I represent mine.

What we are debating right now is the use of time allocation to advance Bill C-88. We are using time allocation because we have not been able to find a way forward.

The member needs to be proposed to, it turns out, but he is more than able to provide me insights as to how much time is needed. The previous House leader was able to communicate for her team and provide us a way forward. I know this member has come back into this role. I acknowledge that he is new to this role this time, I guess, and I will definitely do a better job at providing proposals with respect to a way forward. I will take that as feedback from the member.

However, when it comes to this legislation, it will go to committee. The committee will be able to scrutinize and study this legislation, and the amendments will definitely be considered. The minister responsible and members will definitely have their opportunity to debate them. I am sure there will be a fruitful discussion.

I thank the member for his great question.

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings at this time and put forthwith the question on the motion now before the House.

The question is on the motion. Shall I dispense?

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

[Chair read text of motion to the House]

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

All those opposed will please say nay.

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Bill C-88—Time Allocation MotionMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #1287

Mackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

I declare the motion carried.

I will inform the House that because of the proceedings on the time allocation motion, Government Orders will be extended by 30 minutes.

The House resumed from December 3, 2018, consideration of the motion that Bill C-88, An Act to amend the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act and the Canada Petroleum Resources Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Second ReadingMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak to Bill C-88, an act to amend the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act and the Canada Petroleum Resources Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts.

The bill would make two amendments to the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act of 1998, and I will refer to this in my speech going forward as MVRMA. Part A reverses provisions that would have consolidated the Mackenzie Valley land and water boards into one. These provisions were introduced by the former Conservative government within Bill C-15, Northwest Territories Devolution Act of 2014.

Part B would amend the Canada Petroleum Resources Act to allow the Governor in Council to issue orders, when in the national interest, to prohibit oil and gas activities, and freezes the terms of existing licences to prevent them from expiring during a moratorium.

Bill C-88 is yet another Liberal anti-energy policy in a long list of policies from the government that are driving energy investments out of Canada, costing Canadian workers their jobs and increasing poverty rates in the north.

First, I will speak to part A of the bill, the section that reverses the previous government's initiative to consolidate for the devolution of governance of the Northwest Territories, wherein the federal government transferred control of the territories' land and resources to the Northwest Territories government.

Part of that plan sought to restructure the four Mackenzie Valley land and water boards into a single consolidated superboard, with the intent to streamline regulatory processes and enable responsible resource development. For the reasons why this was proposed under Bill C-15, we have to turn back the clock nearly seven years earlier when, in 2007, then-minister of Indian affairs and northern development, the hon. Chuck Strahl commissioned a report on improving regulatory and environmental assessment regimes in Canada's north.

The consolidation of the Mackenzie Valley land and water boards into one entity was a key recommendation, which would address the complexity and capacity issues by making more efficient use of expenditures and administrative resources, and allow for administrative practices to be understandable and consistent.

Furthermore, during debates in the House in 2013 and 2014, the then-minister of aboriginal affairs and northern development, Bernard Valcourt and the member for Chilliwack—Hope, or as it was known back then, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, pointed out that the restructured board was included in the final version of the modern land claim agreements.

The proposed changes were not acceptable to everyone, and two indigenous groups, the Tlicho Government and Sahtu Secretariat, filed for an injunction with the Northwest Territories' Supreme Court to suspend the related provisions.

They argued that the federal government did not have the authority to abolish the Mackenzie Valley regulatory regime without consultation with affected indigenous communities. I should point out that, at the time, Liberal members of Parliament voted in favour of Bill C-15 when it was debated in Parliament, including the Prime Minister.

The report commissioned by the then-minister of Indian affairs and northern development was never meant to diminish the influence that indigenous people have on resource management in the north. Rather, it was meant to allow for this influence in a practical way, while at the same time enabling responsible resource development through an effective regulatory system.

This brings us back to today and the bill currently before us. As previously mentioned Bill C-88 would repeal the restructuring of the four land and water boards but also reintroduce regulatory provisions that were included in the previous Conservative government's Bill C-15.

These provisions have been redrafted to function under the current four-board structure and provide for the following: an administrative monetary penalty scheme that will provide inspectors with additional tools to enforce compliance with permits and licences under the MVRMA; an enforceable development certificate scheme following environmental assessments and environmental impact reviews; the development of regulations respecting consultation, which are intended to help clarify the procedural roles and responsibilities respecting indigenous consultation; clarification of requirements for equal proportions of nominees from government and indigenous governments and organizations; a 10-day pause period between a board's preliminary screening decision and the issuance of an authorization to allow for other bodies under the MVRMA to refer a project to an environmental assessment; regional studies that provide the minister with the discretion to appoint committees or individuals to study the effects of existing and future development on a regional basis; the authority to develop cost-recovery regulations that would provide the federal government with the ability to recover costs associated with proceedings; and the extension of a board member's term during a proceeding to ensure board quorum is maintained until the conclusion of an application decision.

These are good regulations and I am glad to see that the current government is continuing on with that and did not throw away these provisions.

The Liberals will say that Bill C-88 is about consultation, however, under part 2 is where the real motivation for Bill C-88 becomes evident.

Part 2 is simply the Liberals' plan to further politicize the regulatory and environmental processes for resource extraction in Canada's north by giving cabinet sweeping powers to stop projects based on its so-called national interest. So much for the comments from the parliamentary secretary to the minister of indigenous and northern affairs, who, on speaking to the Conservatives' Bill C-15 on February 11, 2014, said:

As Liberals, we want to see the Northwest Territories have the kind of independence it has sought. We want it to have the ability to make decisions regarding the environment, resource development, business management, growth, and opportunity, which arise within their own lands.

I would agree with that.

Bill C-88 exposes the Liberals' full rejection of calls from elected territorial leaders for increased control of their natural resources. The Liberals have demonstrated disregard for those who speak truth to power, they have demonstrated contempt for indigenous peoples advocating for the health and welfare of their children and now they are adding indifference for northern Canadians' interests to their long litany of groups marginalized by the Liberal government.

The Conservatives strongly criticized the Liberals for a moratorium on offshore oil and gas development in the Beaufort Sea, an announcement made in December 2016, in Washington, D.C. by the prime minister, an announcement, I might add, where territorial leaders were given less than an hour's notice. The Liberal government's top-down maternalistic approach to northerners must end. It does nothing to reduce poverty in remote and northern regions of Canada.

Like Bill C-69, the no-more pipelines bill before it, Bill C-88 politicizes oil and gas extraction by expanding the powers of cabinet to block economic development and adds to the increasing levels of red tape proponents must face before they can get shovels into the ground. Like Bill C-68, the convoluted navigable waters bill before it, Bill C-88 adds ambiguity and massive uncertainty in an already turbulent investment climate. Like Bill C-48, the tanker ban bill before it, Bill C-88 aims to kill high-quality, high-paying jobs for Canadians and their families who work in the oil and gas-related industries.

We know the Prime Minister's real motivation. He spelled it out for us at a Peterborough, Ontario town hall in January 2017, when he clearly stated that he and his government needed to phase out the oil and gas industry in Canada. The Prime Minister's plan to phase out the energy industry has been carried out with surgical precision to date.

The Liberals' job-killing carbon tax is already costing Canadian jobs. Companies repeatedly mention that the carbon tax is the reason they are investing in jobs and projects in the United States over Canada. The Liberals new methane regulations could end refining in Canada by adding tens of billions of dollars of cost to an industry that is already in crisis.

The Liberals introduced their interim review process for oil and gas projects in January 2016, which killed energy east, the 15,000 middle-class jobs it would have created and the nearly $55 billion it would have injected into the New Brunswick and Canadian economies, a review process which delayed the Trans Mountain expansion reviews by six months and added upstream admissions to the review process.

The Liberal cabinet imposed a B.C. north shore tanker ban within months of forming government, with no consultation or scientific evidence to support it. The Liberals cancelled the oil and gas exploration drilling tax credits during a major downturn in the oil and gas sector, which caused the complete collapse of drilling in Canada. The Liberals' proposed fuel standard will equate to a carbon tax of $228 per tonne of fuel according to their own analysis.

When the Prime Minister vetoed the northern gateway pipeline, he killed benefit agreements between the project and 31 first nations, worth about $2 billion. The unprecedented policy will apply not to just transportation fuels but to all industries, including steel production, heating for commercial buildings and home heating fuels like natural gas.

All this is destroying energy jobs and investment from coast to coast to coast. Now, with Bill C-88, we add another coast, the northern coast.

The Liberals love to champion the Prime Minister's personal commitment to a new relationship with indigenous people through new disclosure and friendly policies. They will, no doubt, due so again with Bill C-88.

This is what some organizations and people have to say, with respect to the Prime Minister's so-called commitment:

Stephen Buffalo, the president and CEO of the Indian Resource Council, in the National Post, October 19, 2018 stated:

...the government of Canada appears to consult primarily with people and organizations that share its views...It pays much less attention to other Indigenous groups, equally concerned about environmental sustainability, who seek a more balanced approach to resource development.

Here is another quote from that article:

The policies of the [Prime Minister's] government are systematically constraining the freedom and economic opportunities of the oil- and gas-producing Indigenous peoples of Canada. We are not asking for more from government. We are actually asking for less government intervention

Roy Fox, chief of the Kainaiwa first nation, in The Globe and Mail, December 10, 2018 stated:

While the Kainaiwa [nation] continue to fight against high unemployment, as well as the social destructiveness and health challenges such as addiction and other issues that often accompany poverty, my band’s royalties have recently been cut by more than half. Furthermore, all drilling has been cancelled because of high price differentials – the enormous gap between what we get on a barrel of oil in comparison to the benchmark price – which has limited employment opportunities on our lands.

Chief Fox continued:

...it’d be an understatement to say the policies proposed within Bills C-69 and C-48 are damaging our position by restricting access and reducing our ability to survive as a community....I and the majority of Treaty 7 chiefs strongly oppose the bill for its likely devastating impact on our ability to support our community members, as it would make it virtually impossible for my nation to fully benefit from the development of our energy resources.

I can continue to read quotes. However, we here on this side of the aisle are deeply disappointed that the Prime Minister, who campaigned on a promise of reconciliation with indigenous communities, blatantly would allow and choose to deny our 31 first nations and Métis communities their constitutionally-protected right to economic development.

This is from the Aboriginal Equity Partners:

We see today's announcement as evidence of the government's unwillingness to follow through on the Prime Minister's promise.

The Government of Canada could have demonstrated its commitment by working with us as environmental stewards of the land and water to enhance marine safety. All 31 AEP plus the other affected communities should have been consulted directly and individually in order to meet the Federal Government's duty to consult.

I have said this many times in my speech. It is time to stop politicizing these projects. Bill C-88 politicizes oil and gas development in the far north by providing the cabinet in Ottawa the unilateral power to shut down oil and gas development without consulting the people it affects directly.

I want to point to a few “key facts” from NRCAN's website. It states that in 2017, Canada’s energy sector directly employed more than 276,000 people and indirectly supported over 624,000 jobs; Canada’s energy sector accounts for almost 11% of nominal Gross Domestic Product (GDP); government revenues from energy were $10.3 billion in 2016; more than $650 million was spent on energy research, development, and deployment by governments in 2016-17; and Canada is the sixth largest energy producer, the fifth largest net exporter, and the eighth largest consumer

Just last week, in The Globe and Mail, David McKay, the president and CEO of the Royal Bank of Canada, stated:

History has placed Canada at a crossroads. No other country of 37 million people has access to more natural resources – and the brainpower to convert those resources into sustainable growth for a stronger society.

And yet, Canada is at risk of taking the wrong turn at the crossroads because some believe there are only two paths: one for economic growth, and the other for environment.

We’re seeing this dilemma play out in Canada’s energy transition as we struggle to reconcile competing ideas.

We aspire to help the world meet its energy needs and move to ever-cleaner fuel sources. We aim to reduce our carbon footprint. We want Indigenous reconciliation and long-term partnership. And we hope to maintain the standard of living we have come to enjoy.

But without a balanced approach to harnessing our energy future, all of this is at risk.

We need to take a third path--one that will help us develop our natural resources, invest in clean technologies and ensure a prosperous Canada....

But we’re reaching a critical time in our country’s history.

As our resources sector copes with a growing crisis, we worry that Canada is not setting up our energy industry for growth and success in a changing world.

When I travel abroad, and proudly talk up our country, too many investors tell me they feel Canada's door is closed when it comes to energy. We need to change that impression immediately, because these investors are backing up their words with action.

According to a recent study from the C.D. Howe Institute, Canada has lost $100-billion in potential investment in oil and gas in the past two years.

We can’t forget that energy is not only part of the economic fabric of Canada, it also funds our social needs. The sector has contributed $90-billion to government revenues over the past five years, which covers about 10 per cent of what the country spends on health care, according to RBC Economics.

And if we squander our huge advantage and cede the dividends to other countries, we’ll also risk losing the opportunity to help combat the most daunting challenge of all – climate change.

The article ends with the following charge to government:

We can’t stay at a crossroads.

It’s time for Canada to pull together on a plan – one that re-energizes our place in the world.

The Conservatives have long viewed the north as a key driver of economic activity for Canada for decades to come. The Liberals, however, view the north as a place to create huge swaths of protected land and shut down economic activity.

Bill C-88 appears to be based in a desire to win votes in major urban centres rather than reduce poverty in remote regions of Canada. Northerners face the unique challenges of living in the north with resilience and fortitude. They want to create jobs and economic opportunities for their families. They deserve a government that has their backs.

We are at a crossroads and it is time for Canada to pull together a plan. The Conservatives are up to that challenge. We look forward to unveiling our plan and growing the economy in the next election for voters to decide for themselves who really has the best interests of Canadians.

Second ReadingMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the 20-minute speech of the member across the way. One of the very important things to point out, which in fact happens a lot when we listen to the Conservatives, is that when they talk about the energy industry and sector, what they really mean to say is energy that is derived from oil-based products. A lot of the facts he brought up may have been true related to fossil fuel energy, but the reality of the situation is that when he talks about driving energy workers out of Canada, he is misleading in the sense that he is not capturing the fact that over the past five years the green energy sector has increased by 37% in Canada. Over $25 billion have been invested into green energy in Canada.

In fact, for the first time, as recently reported by The Globe and Mail, the newspaper the Conservatives like to quote so much in the House lately, the green energy sector now employs 23,700 people whereas the oil sands are at 23,340. Despite what we have heard about the oil sector specifically and its contribution to energy, would he at least not recognize that now, for the first time pretty much ever, the green energy sector is a significant component to producing energy for our country?

Second ReadingMackenzie Valley Resource Management ActGovernment Orders

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON

Mr. Speaker, as my friend mentioned, green energy has seen investment of about $25 billion. We have also seen about $100 billion more leave the energy sector and the oil and gas sector.

He talks about the 23,700 people working in the clean energy sector. What about the 100,000-plus people in Alberta and Saskatchewan who have lost their jobs?

I do not think it is one or the other; it is both. As we have said many times in the House and elsewhere, Canada has some of the most responsible resource management anywhere in the world. We are a world leader. We should be promoting that. If we want to ensure that the bad actors in this world, like Nicaragua and Venezuela, start to up their game, we need to get our product to markets that want a resource responsibly extracted. We have great labour and environmental laws, and the list goes on.

We should be promoting this. We should be getting our energy to markets. We can have a green energy sector working with the oil and gas sector, not just pick one over the other.