House of Commons Hansard #436 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was plan.

Topics

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Mr. Speaker, this is a very important issue. A myth has been peddled by both the Conservatives and the NDP about supposed exemptions for large emitters under our system. Let me be crystal clear. There are no exemptions for large emitters under our system. They pay into a system that is called an output-based pricing system which requires them to pay a price—

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

An hon. member

You're playing with words.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

We were doing so well. I want to remind hon. members that a question was asked. When the presentation was being done, it was perfect. Nobody said a word, maybe a couple of chirps here and there, and now we have started up again.

I want to remind hon. members that whoever is speaking, whether it is a member on the opposition side or the government side, to try to give that member the respect he or she deserves, just as all members would expect.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Mr. Speaker, I enjoy good conversation with my friends and colleagues.

To be crystal clear. There is no exemption for big emitters under our system. They pay at the exact same price signal that everyone else does under what is called the output-based pricing system. We have established a system that allows us to move forward with a price for big emitters that does not jeopardize their competitiveness.

One of the points of differentiation between our plan and the NDP's plan is that without this kind of system, as the Ecofiscal Commission has pointed out, the NDP will hurt the Canadian economy by causing carbon leakage and also increase global emissions because big polluters will be incentivized to leave Canada.

With respect to the example in New Brunswick, it is because that province is dealing with an industry that is operating better than the industry standard. In Nova Scotia, the member is right that we do have an equivalency agreement with that province to help it transition off coal, still 28 years faster than the Conservatives would have it transition. It is because we are trying to reflect the realities after we have had discussions with the different provincial governments.

I have a meeting later today. We are going to discuss how we can accelerate the phase out of coal in Nova Scotia, because it is the right thing to do.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Mr. Speaker, I listened with interest to the parliamentary secretary's speech and his endless litany of ineffective half-measures. I am not impressed.

After four years in power, the Liberal record on the environment is absolutely abysmal, especially when it comes to reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Here are some figures from Environment Canada. In December 2017, officials forecasted that the Liberals would miss the Conservatives' targets by 66 megatonnes. A year later, no progress had been made. In fact, it was then estimated that they would miss the targets by 79 megatonnes.

The Liberals can pat themselves on the back and adopt emergency motions in the House of Commons all they like, but the fact remains that they are going to miss the Conservative targets set by Stephen Harper. Furthermore, they want to expand the Trans Mountain pipeline, which they bought with our money. In terms of pollution, it would be like putting 3 million more cars on our roads every year. That is the Liberal record.

I doubt that voters will be fooled in the upcoming election.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Mr. Speaker, there were a number of different issues built into that question. I will do my best to address them.

The starting point with the use of 2017 is a good example of cherry picking data that misrepresents the facts on the ground. Due to the forest fires in western Canada in 2016, an artificial suppression of the emissions in Canada led to a low that did not necessarily fit the trend. If we look at a longer time horizon, we are trending in the right direction.

With respect to the target to which my hon. colleague has referred, we will hit that target, and this is important. To the extent there is a gap, it does not factor in certain measures that have not been modelled, measures like the single largest investment in public transit in the history of Canada, measures such as the adoption of zero emission vehicles with the subsidies that we have just put in place to bring their cost down and measures like investments in carbon sequestration technologies that will continue to have uptake over the next while.

It also presumes that we will take absolutely no action over the next 11 years, which is patently false on its face.

The member said that some of our measures would be ineffective, and I forget the precise word, and I am curious. The NDP is now campaigning on the ideas that we started implementing several years ago.

I do not know how he squares that circle. On the one hand, he says they are ineffective. On the other, he says the NDP will implement about half of them should it form government.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the parliamentary secretary can comment on how it is possible that the Conservative Party of Canada will come forward with a real plan tomorrow to address the environmental challenges. Yesterday the Conservatives voted against declaring a climate emergency.

Only a couple of weeks ago, the member for Milton, the deputy leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, said that the bottom line was there was no connection between climate change and major indicators of extreme weather, that the continual claim of such a link was just misinformation employed for political or rhetorical purposes.

How are we ever to take seriously a Conservative plan when comments like these are being made by the the deputy leader of the Conservative Party of Canada?

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Mr. Speaker, my ordinary disposition is one of optimism and hope, but I do not have much cause for hope when it comes to the plan we will see later this week. I note that the Conservatives are tabling it in the very last week of Parliament when it will not be subject to scrutiny by the parties in the House during question period.

With respect to the recent tweet put out by the deputy leader of the opposition, I found it unfortunate. I know her to be a reasonable person. I believe she thinks we should take action on climate change. However, to put these harmful messages out there for political gain when it does a disservice to the debate and discourse around climate change in Canada is disheartening. I note in particular that the Conservative leader was recently confronted about his desire to avoid tackling the question of whether there was a connection between climate change and severe weather. This has just become the norm.

I look at comments from different Conservative MPs over the the past few years. One member visited school children in Alberta and told them that CO2 was just plant food, not pollution, saying there was no consensus on this. Some members want to pull out of the Paris agreement. I was in a debate on social media with one of the Conservative members, who cited a pile of snow in Saskatchewan in February as evidence that climate change was not real.

It is unfortunate, but this is the tenor of the debate. Members from British Columbia have suggested that climate change and the rising temperature is similar to more people just being in a room giving up body heat. If they cannot acknowledge that a primary cause of climate change is human industrial activity, then they are not taking part in the debate at all. I do not anticipate the Conservative plan will be worth the paper it is written on.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

Independent

Erin Weir Independent Regina—Lewvan, SK

Mr. Speaker, one of the main concerns the Conservatives have raised is that if we have a carbon price, it could prompt a carbon-intensive industry to move to jurisdictions with weaker environmental standards, eliminating Canadian jobs and potentially increasing global emissions. The government is trying to address this problem of carbon leakage with output-based rebates to industry that keeps its production here. Another approach to this problem would be carbon border adjustments, extending the carbon price to the carbon content of imports and rebating it on Canadian-made exports.

I would like to invite the parliamentary secretary to comment a bit further on the importance of maintaining a level playing field between Canada and countries that do not price emissions.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Mr. Speaker, as always, I thank the hon. member for his thoughtful approach to politics. Perhaps the CCF does not suffer from the same defect of partisanship that the rest of us do at times in the House.

He is absolutely right. The phenomenon of carbon leakage is real. If a system is created that does not protect against trade-exposed industries potentially fleeing Canada, we will have the exact kind of consequence that the Ecofiscal Commission warned would result if we implemented the NDP's approach, which does not adequately take this into effect. I read with interest the editorial the hon. member put forward just last week on this subject.

We established a price on pollution for large emitters, which they would have to pay. Then industry by industry identified a threshold of the rebate that they would get back, should they perform above the industry average with respect to reducing their emissions. To the extent that someone can actually significantly beat the industry average, they can receive a credit. To the extent some just continue on with business as usual, they will pay a significant price. We have used the market to create an incentive for large emitters to reduce their emissions over time, without putting them at risk of having jobs leave the country.

I would be happy to carry the conversation on with the member after.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with my fantastic colleague from Courtenay—Alberni. I want to take this opportunity to congratulate him on all the work he does to promote cycling in this country and help reduce plastic pollution. My colleague from British Columbia is doing an outstanding job.

I listened carefully to the parliamentary secretary's speech, and I want to come back to the final point he raised when responding to our Conservative colleague's question. Indeed, contrary to what the parliamentary secretary said, certain industrial sectors in Canada are getting free passes and handouts in terms of the price they will have to pay for their huge contribution to greenhouse gas emissions. This is all being given to them because of fears that businesses in certain highly competitive industrial sectors will want to move away or shut down their operations in Canada.

In his argument, the parliamentary secretary used the market argument to justify giving these companies a free pass allowing them to emit 10% more greenhouse gases before having to pay. What he fails to mention is that there is absolutely no verifiable objective criterion to justify this exemption, this gift being given to certain industrial sectors. In theory, the underlying logic to this exemption could be justified, but it is impossible to know what objective, rational, and independent criteria the Liberal government is basing its reasoning on. Several environmental activists have already asked this question. This approach lacks credibility. Again, it looks like the Liberals are handing out gifts to their corporate industry friends.

I find it interesting that we are having this discussion on the price of pollution. I have to hand it to the Conservatives, they are certainly consistent. When they sink their teeth into something, they do not let go. They do not like the idea of putting a price on pollution, and they are moving the same opposition motion that they presented a month or two ago, as though nothing else were going on in our society or our country. It seems to be the only thing they want to talk about until the election. Suits me. Let's talk about it.

I am the NDP environment critic. I am pleased to speak about our extraordinary platform called “The Courage to Do What's Right”, which the NDP leader recently presented in Montreal. It is an extraordinary and comprehensive document that includes a multitude of measures to address the challenges of tackling climate change. I will come back to that in a few minutes.

If there is one thing we can fault the Liberals for it is their lack of coherence. The government sheds crocodile tears and plays the violin while talking to us about future generations, the importance of the planet, nature, frogs and little birds, but it does nothing. It has been dragging its feet for years. The Liberals' environmental record does not live up to its promises of 2015 or the speeches it continues to give. What happened last night is proof of that. The Liberal government made us vote on a motion declaring a climate emergency. That is important. Canada is a G7 country. The government took the initiative to declare a climate emergency and to say that we must roll up our sleeves and take action. However, the Liberals had us vote on this motion the day before the announcement about the Trans Mountain expansion. That took some nerve. It does not make sense.

The Trans Mountain expansion will triple oil sands production, which will rise from 300,000 to 900,000 barrels a day. This project poses an extremely serious threat to British Columbia's coastline and has no social licence. Many indigenous communities oppose it, as does the Government of British Columbia. It is completely incompatible with the Liberal government's ambition to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions by 2030. To increase oil production from 300,000 to 900,000 barrels a day is equivalent to putting another three million cars on the road.

The government's climate change plan involves putting three million more gas-guzzling vehicles on our roads. Someone pinch me; I must be imagining things. This is a nonsensical and wrong-headed plan.

It is no wonder that groups like ENvironnement JEUnesse are suing the Liberal government over its reckless disregard for future generations. Young people are concerned, they are protesting, they are organizing and they are taking the government to court because it is not fulfilling its responsibilities. It is not taking the courageous decisions needed to do our part to combat climate change, the greatest challenge of our generation. If we do not get greenhouse gas emissions under control and limit global warming to 1.5°C to 2°C, the consequences will be extremely costly. There will be social, human, financial and economic consequences. We cannot wash our hands of this. We cannot stand by. Unfortunately, the Liberal government is all talk and no action.

By contrast, the NDP, with our leader, the member for Burnaby South, has proposed an extremely ambitious and comprehensive plan. I am pleased to have the opportunity to talk about this plan today, because we are going after the biggest greenhouse gas emitters.

The government's mistake is thinking that taxing carbon or pricing pollution is a magic wand that will fix all problems. This is not the case. It is a necessary tool, sure, but it is not enough. I think this is very important to point out. This is why the NDP has proposed other measures to ensure that we take serious, responsible action. Our commitment is to cut emissions by 450 megatonnes by 2030. This is achievable and is consistent with scientific findings and the IPCC report.

First, we want to take action on housing. We want to complete energy efficiency retrofits on all existing buildings and homes in Canada by 2050. That will save Canadians money and also reduce our carbon footprint. We want to change the building code so that all new buildings are carbon neutral by 2030, meaning they produce no greenhouse gas emissions. This would be a regulatory requirement that would apply across the board. The government has not had the courage to do this, and it does not even seem to be interested in moving in this direction.

Second, there is transportation. The transportation sector is a major GHG emitter. There are two things we need to achieve. First, we want to electrify personal and freight transportation, and we want to make sure we do both, not just personal transportation. Second, we want to electrify transit.

Electrification of transportation is crucial. We are going much further than the current Liberal government. We pledge to waive the GST on all models of electric or zero-emissions vehicles made in Canada. Not only will this make it easier for consumers to own a zero-emissions electric or hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, but it will also provide an important boost to help the automotive sector make this transition.

Our plan includes major investments in public transit totalling $6.5 billion over the course of the NDP's first term in office. We will work with municipalities to reduce the cost of using public transit. Ultimately, we want public transit to be free, as it is in other places around the world, because we want to encourage people to use public transit more as well as active transit, such as walking and cycling.

Third is renewable energy. This government continues to subsidize oil and gas companies to the tune of billions of dollars a year. That needs to stop. We will divert that money to the renewable energy sector, which is already creating far more jobs in Canada than the fossil fuel sector.

We will make that happen by setting up a climate bank that can issue loans and provide loan guarantees to businesses, investors and people who are building green energy projects and renewable energy developments.

That is the NDP's game plan. I think it is much more ambitious than what any other party in the House has to offer.

Canadians and Quebeckers will judge its merits on October 21.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Mr. Speaker, I was into the speech right up until the end, when the member mentioned the fossil fuel phase-out. The fossil fuel phase-out also includes fossil fuel subsidies for remote communities that need to use diesel until we are able to get them other fuels to generate electricity.

Five out of the seven subsidies that are currently in place have been negotiated out, but a few still remain, such as the one I just mentioned. Could the member talk about the nuances of the fossil fuel phase-out in relation to the types of fossil fuel subsidies we have in place and how critical it is to remove them in a way that does not jeopardize people in remote locations?

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question and for giving me an opportunity to speak to that issue.

Unfortunately, the Liberals often use that argument to attack the NDP's plan. It is not quite accurate. I want to clarify and set the record straight.

Obviously, we are talking about subsidies for big industry and for large oil and gas corporations. We are also talking about changing the mandate of Export Development Canada and using that money to make a public investment in renewable energy. Obviously, the indigenous communities in northern Canada that need diesel to produce electricity would never be negatively impacted by the NDP's plan.

I thank the member for that question.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie for his remarks.

Obviously, we disagree with about 95% of what he said, but we do agree with the remaining 5%, specifically, when he so rightly pointed out that the Conservatives are logical and consistent, and they are too.

The question I have for my colleague is very simple. We do not believe that putting a price on pollution reduces emissions. That is why we are opposed to the Liberal carbon tax, which has been imposed right across the country, regardless of what the provinces want. That is not right, and at the very least, is shows the government's outrageous disregard for jurisdictional boundaries.

On November 29, the Premier of Quebec tabled in the Quebec National Assembly a document prepared by the Quebec ministry of the environment on greenhouse gas emissions from 1990 to 2016. That document indicates that, even though the carbon exchange was in place, and I know what I am talking about since I voted on it when I was a member of the National Assembly, GHG emissions did not drop in 2014, 2015 or 2016. In fact, they actually increased.

I would like the hon. member to explain to us why he thinks the carbon tax, the tax on pollution, does not lower greenhouse gas emissions, as proven by science and the real and tangible experience of Quebec.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Louis-Saint-Laurent for his highly relevant question. That was not the first time he asked it and I feel as though I will be hearing it a lot over the coming months.

The hon. member for Louis-Saint-Laurent demonstrated what the NDP has been saying, that the carbon tax alone is not going to have a major impact. A host of factors need to be taken into account and all sorts of efforts need to be made to tackle this. I think there are no two ways about it, and I think it is a shame that the Conservatives oppose putting a price on pollution. I also find it odd that the Conservatives are against using market mechanisms to put pressure on companies or consumers to change their behaviours.

Since the hon. member is Conservative, I imagine he wants to preserve things. Through our plan, we want to protect 30% of all of Canada's land and sea area and convert them into parks and reserves. That is what environmental groups are asking for.

I hope the Conservatives' announcement tomorrow will include a commitment to protect nature here in Canada.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet NDP Hochelaga, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am very proud of the NDP plan, which is extremely comprehensive.

The member has yet to speak about the part of the plan that deals with employment insurance and training. I wonder if he could talk a bit about that, since I am very proud of that part too.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Hochelaga. It was in my notes, but I did not have time to get to it.

Indeed, we are the only party that respects workers in the energy transition, which is unavoidable. We have an plan for EI that involves providing labour force training so that people can qualify for the jobs of the future before the changes are complete.

People will be able to train for a new job in renewable energy, for example, while they are still on the job. We are very proud of that.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to rise today as we talk about the most important issue that is facing our planet and humanity. The Conservative motion today is:

That, given that the carbon tax will not reduce emissions at its current rate and it is already making life more expensive for Canadians, the House call on the government to repeal the carbon tax and replace it with a real environment plan.

I am going to speak about an environmental plan and how we can get to that conversation. However, before I do that, I want to read an important quote from Greta Thunberg. We all know that she is a leading climate activist globally. She says, “You say you love your children above all else, and yet you are stealing their future in front of their very eyes.”

I am going to target my speech to this motion and around the fiscal responsibilities of what is happening today. We know that the PBO did a report in 2014 and guesstimated that the cost of climate emergencies would be about $900 million a year to the Canadian economy. That has actually turned into $1.8 billion, so at the time he very much under-calculated the true cost of climate emergencies and how quickly we were going to see climate change happen. He also predicted that by 2050 we would see the cost escalate to $40 billion to $50 billion. When I think about Greta Thunberg, I think about my children and the children of our country. I think about ensuring that we do not leave them with a huge deficit and that we pay for pollution now instead of expecting Greta and other children around the world to inherit this huge economic deficit.

In our country, we are seeing skyrocketing temperatures that have never been seen before. Canada is the fastest-warming country in the world, now at 1.7° above 1948 temperatures, which is our baseline. We are looking at 2.3°C in the far north, where it is the fastest warming in the world. As I have raised here in the House, we are seeing weather patterns, with the biggest windstorm in Vancouver Island's history in December. In February, we had the biggest snowstorm. In March, we had the biggest drought. We had forest fires that started in May and right now most communities in coastal British Columbia and certainly all over Vancouver Island are on water conservation orders. It is affecting our salmon, our economy, our food security and our way of life.

I will go to the motion. The Conservatives have been opposing the carbon tax. They have raised the carbon tax issue. I did a Library of Parliament research question. About two months ago, the Conservatives had asked 762 questions in question period opposing the carbon tax. Those are lost opportunities to bring solutions to the government and to call on the government to take action on a list of items that the Conservatives could be bringing forward. They are perhaps talking about some of that tomorrow. I am extremely disappointed that the Conservative Party of Canada did not roll out its platform yesterday so that today we could be debating its proposal. It would have been good for a healthy debate. We need to put partisan politics aside and have a healthy debate about this most important crisis that is happening in all of our planet's history.

I am extremely disappointed. The Conservatives point to the government, saying that the Liberals have no real plan, but we still have not heard the Conservatives' plan. This really affects the credibility of today's motion, which is just in opposition.

The Progressive Conservative Party of the past was willing to take action on climate leadership like with acid rain, putting a cost on polluters and ensuring that they paid the price. The Conservatives are not listening to some of their own leaders. Preston Manning is very much in support of a carbon tax, putting a price on pollution and ensuring it is carbon neutral. Therefore, when we look at the changes and evolution of the Conservative Party, I am concerned to see this motion come forward without the Conservatives' plan being presented to us.

We have heard from the Liberal Party about the importance of balancing the environment and the economy. We could not agree more.

However, we hear about the government purchasing a pipeline for $4.5 billion, and now, today, the Liberals are going to consider making a decision. If that decision has not already been announced while I am rising right now, it is to twin the Trans Mountain pipeline and invest $15 billion, which would be the largest purchase by the public in Canadian history in fossil fuel infrastructure, and at a time when we need to go in the other direction and invest in clean energy and renewal. Therefore, I am extremely disappointed to hear the government talk about balancing the environment and the economy when it could invest $15 billion into clean energy right now and into electrifying our country. There are so many opportunities and tools that the government has to bring our emissions down and take real climate action.

When I look at jurisdictions around the world, they certainly differ from the beliefs of my friend for Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola. He believes that the carbon tax in British Columbia and Quebec has not worked when, in fact, they have had the fastest growing economies in our country. In British Columbia, it has been an enormous success. When the member attacks the B.C. Liberal government of the past that brought it in and the B.C. NDP government that is carrying forward an important policy that is supported by the B.C. Green Party, he is taking a shot at all political parties in British Columbia that are united on one thing: knowing that we have to put a price on pollution and that polluters need to pay their fair share. That is just the reality.

We cannot leave it for Greta and other young people in our communities who we are hearing from. The youth climate action, as we have heard, is doing Friday walkouts, joining children from around the world demanding that we take action; and by “we”, they mean right here in the House of Commons and leaders from across political parties standing united to take action. They are demanding it. I have children in my riding from G.P. Vanier and Mark R. Isfeld secondary schools in Courtenay who have walked out of school and called on us to bring their important message to Ottawa to be heard here in the House, and I am doing that today. Children in Port Alberni at Wood Elementary School are walking out of school, demanding we take action.

I have been privileged to sit on the climate caucus here in Ottawa, which is an all-party, multi-party caucus, with my good friend for Drummond from the NDP, my friend for Saanich—Gulf Islands from the Green Party, my friend for Repentigny from the Bloc Québécois and my friend for Wellington—Halton Hills from the Conservative Party. It is one opportunity where we actually put our partisan politics aside and become united on an important issue. Sadly, only about 10 or 12 of us show up on a regular basis, and we need more. We need to make it a party so that climate caucuses meet right here in the House of Commons and have a healthy debate about how we move forward and not go backward.

Today, I look at models around the world. California is an excellent model that has taken real action, such as curbing climate emissions on vehicles. Californians have taken a multi-tasked approach where they work with people who are facing real challenges in communities, who are facing huge economic hardship, and shifted that through cap and trade. They have improved their GDP by 37% since 2000 and have reduced emissions by 35%, and that is per capita. This is just another example of a jurisdiction that has taken leadership. Norway has invested in $1 trillion in oil and gas, while our country put $11 billion aside. In Norway, they are earning $50 billion in interest alone and investing in clean energy and strategies that will lower emissions. In fact, 53% of their vehicles are electrified in Norway. Therefore, it can be done. There are 45 countries around the world that have a price on pollution and a carbon tax, as well as an additional 25 jurisdictions, provincial or state, in various countries around the world.

We have heard from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, or the IPCC, that we need to reduce emissions by 45% from 2005 levels, and our commitment in Paris, by 2030. We have to take drastic action.

I could speak all day about solutions and creating jobs, clean energy and investing in electrification, and ending subsidies to big oil and gas, which, again, could finance so many opportunities and solutions, such as retrofitting buildings. The number of things that we could do is endless. We could have a full debate about that, and I wish we were.

We are in a climate crisis, and I want to close on what Greta Thunberg had said: “...I don't want your hope. I don't want you to be hopeful. I want you to panic [and] act as if the house was on fire”.

We are in the House. Let us act like it is on fire.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

Noon

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to go back to one thing the member said just a few moments ago. He really hit the nail on the head when he said that this should not be an issue that is overly politicized and partisan. Climate change is not a Liberal issue, or an NDP issue or a Conservative Party issue. This is an issue that we face today, and we will not be judged in the future based on which political party we were part of when all these decisions needed to be made. We will be judged on what action we took collectively, as a whole.

Could he comment as to what he sees the need for in the future, and in particular, when we talk about future generations? How will they judge us collectively rather than based on an individual political party that we belong to?

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

Noon

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, this excellent question draws me back to the all-party climate caucus. Even though a handful of people would show up for it, I know that most members in this House care deeply about this very important issue. I wish we were talking and debating motions about proposals, and how we were going to be moving forward and focusing and drilling down on this specific issue. I am very disappointed that is not where we are spending our time and energy.

Instead of putting partisan politics on whether we support each other's motions or not, we need to find a way to collectively work together and support each other's amendments that are going to move us forward. That is what our children are going to look back on. They are going to look at what we did and whether we took that paradigm shift when it was necessary and were told this by 97% of the scientists around the world. They are going to look at whether we took the action necessary. They are going to find out, we know that, and they are going to hold us to account. Let us hope we do the right thing by moving quickly on this very important issue.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

Noon

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

Mr. Speaker, I enjoyed working with my friend on biosphere reserve issues, but I disagree with pretty much everything he says. I find the NDP strangely hilarious. On one hand, it tries to defend the steel industry in Hamilton and talks about how important those jobs are, yet it works like crazy to stop pipelines that are made of steel.

I used to have a lot of time for the old NDP and members like Ed Schreyer, the party of the working person and so on. This new NDP is finished when it comes to dealing with the working person. The only party that cares about working people in this country is the Conservative Party.

Today's poll showed what working people have to say. They do not want to pay a carbon tax. The Conservative environmental plan to be released tomorrow will be a groundbreaking plan.

The member talked about electrifying this country. This country will be electrified when that man in that chair is the Prime Minister of this country.

I have two questions for my friend. One, how high does he want the carbon tax to go? I notice that he did not give a number. Two, given that the NDP rails away against the oil and gas industry all the time, will he put his money where his mouth is and recommend every union pension fund and the Canada pension plan divest themselves completely of every single oil and gas investment?

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

Noon

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, I could speak for a long time to answer that very long question. First of all, when it comes to standing up for workers, I will tell the House what it looks like in my riding. We had the B.C. Liberals in government and raw log exports went up 10-fold in 10 years. They shipped jobs out of our province. Now they want to raw ship oil, raw bitumen, instead of refining it in our country and creating Canada's energy security here. They want to ship it out of our country.

Who is standing up for jobs? The only time British Columbians have had jobs stood up for is from New Democrats, who have always been there for labour and ensuring we have job security in our country.

When it comes to a carbon tax, again, this is when partisan politics get in the way. We are not listening to the experts or bureaucrats who know what we need to do. We need to listen to them and do what we need to do to ensure our children are not picking up the tab. There is nothing fiscally Conservative about this.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

Noon

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Mr. Speaker, since the NDP purports to be for the working man, there are a number of people in Skeena—Bulkley Valley who want to know where the NDP stands on the B.C. LNG, which would not have gone forward if the B.C. NDP government had not lowered the taxes on the previous regime established by the B.C. Liberals he purports to dislike so much.

Second, in addition to that tax relief, his party has been completely off the radar on whether it supports it. I can look Greta in the eyes and say that we are reducing global emissions with clean LNG to replace dirty coal. I would hope that she would support that on the science.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, there were a lot of questions again. New Democrats do not support oil and gas subsidies, full stop. That is clear. I have no problem saying that right now. The federal NDP has made it very clear.

When it comes to a previous question about the Canada pension plan, no, we should not be investing Canadian pension funds in oil and gas infrastructure. My colleague from Cowichan—Malahat—Langford has a bill that he will hopefully be speaking to this week and the member will have an opportunity to speak to that.

I could talk a lot about how we need a bigger debate about this very important issue. This is not enough. With the Conservatives not rolling out their plan and having this discussion now, they totally lack credibility.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, today we are debating the following motion that Conservatives have put forward:

That, given that the carbon tax will not reduce emissions at its current rate and it is already making life more expensive for Canadians, the House call on the government to repeal the carbon tax and replace it with a real environment plan.

As part of debate on this motion today, I would like to break down what climate change is, what causes it, and then show why the Liberals' carbon tax scheme, which is currently at $40 a tonne, will not reduce emissions in Canada, why it exacerbates global climate change and why it is harmful to our economy, but I will do so in the following context.

Earlier in debate today, the member for Kingston and the Islands said that by raising this motion, the Conservatives were “playing with the lives of future generations”. Recently, something awesome happened to me. I became a stepmom and a step-grandmother. To one tiny, very sticky human being, I am known as nana. My stepson Kepi is watching the debate today and my stepdaughter Tori really cares about this issue because she has a son. This one is for them, not for the member for Kingston and the Islands.

What is climate change and what causes it? Climate change can be broadly described by global or regional climate patterns, in particular a change apparent from the mid- to late 20th century onward and attributed largely to the increased levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide produced by the use of fossil fuels. Climate change is caused by changes in greenhouse gas concentrations, for example industrial emissions, cars, volcanoes, forest fires; deforestation and land use changes; sulfate aerosols; and soot particles or black carbon. If that is what it is and what it is caused by, then how do we reduce it?

Let us start with the Liberal plan, which is the subject of the motion today. To the member for Kingston and the Islands and everyone who has mentioned children as the reason for debate on this issue, Liberals have staked their children's future on a $40-a-tonne price on carbon. If we know what the causes of climate change are, as I read them out, then the policy objective should be to put in place a policy instrument that reduces greenhouse gas emissions. That is what we are managing to, to save the planet for our children. Therefore, it is incumbent upon us as legislators to ask, given the severity and gravity of this, if the Liberals' purported plan would work.

Those who have a background in economics will know that there is a concept called price elasticity. I am oversimplifying this, but it means that if a price changes on a good, people will buy more or less of it. When the price changes on goods and people buy more or less of them, those are highly price-elastic goods. When the price of goods increases but people still have to buy them and their consumption does not change, those goods are called price-inelastic.

I am raising this because this concept is super important when we talk about whether a carbon tax would reduce greenhouse gas emissions. If an additional price is put on carbon, and I mean things like gas in our tanks, what we use to heat our homes or electricity, if it is produced by fossil fuels, if the government is going to put a price on that and that is its purported way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, in theory, Liberals are hoping and praying that people will buy less carbon because the price has increased.

The government has refused to table or make public any sort of data that it has from modelling the price elasticity of carbon. That is really unfortunate, because it does not allow us as legislators, given what is at stake for our kids, to look at whether this is actually going to work.

The reality is that, in Canada, where it is very cold and we have to use fossil fuels to heat our homes and to drive around, as we do not have the same sort of transit infrastructure that a small European country would have, there really is not a substitute good for carbon. In Canada, carbon is price-inelastic, which means that putting a price of $40 a tonne on carbon, as the Liberals have done, is not actually going to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in Canada.

The reason this motion is before the House today is that this is an important issue, but if we want to save the planet for our kids and we know that it is not going to work, then we have to talk about other solutions, not just cling to it out of political expediency.

Members do not have to take my word for it. This year, the Parliamentary Budget Officer, a non-partisan agent of Parliament whose job it is to do this type of modelling, said that the Liberals' carbon tax would need to be $102 per tonne in every province and territory in order to meet the greenhouse gas emission reduction targets set by the government, which it is purportedly managing to.

When asked if she would raise the tax to this level, the environment minister said no. Praise the Lord the answer was no. Essentially, the Liberals have said that they are setting a $40-per-tonne price on carbon. They know it is not going to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and they are not going to raise it to a higher level.

What have we done in four years? The Liberals' own released report this year shows that Canada is actually further from the Paris target than last year. New numbers released by Environment Canada show that Canada is on track to fall 79 megatonnes short of its 2030 greenhouse gas emissions target, and that is up from 66 megatonnes last year.

These guys are standing here doing something that I like to call apocalypse porn. It is where people stand and talk about all the terrible things that are happening and focus on that to deflect any sort of legislative inquiry into the efficacy of their policies. We know it is not going to work. That is why the motion is in front of us today. Liberals shut down debate when any of their climate plans are questioned. If they know that their plan will not reduce greenhouse gas emissions and they will not raise the tax, then why have they put this forward?

I could speculate at length about that. I think this is a cash grab for the Liberals' out-of-control spending. This is a way for some of the senior cabinet ministers to get on speaking tours and perhaps position themselves for jobs in the industry of people who do not really have plans to reduce greenhouse gas emissions but make a lot as environmental consultants.

I think that is what they are managing to, and that is really unfortunate, given that the member for Kingston and the Islands appealed to the children. I do not want my kids to see a Liberal carbon plan where what the Liberals are managing to, instead of reducing greenhouse gas emissions, is jobs after politics, because they have said the right things but have done nothing.

I want to debunk some of the talking points that the Liberals have been throwing out today in opposition to the motion. First of all, they are citing the Nobel Prize-winning economist who said that this is the way to fight climate change. Let us go through some of the work that Dr. Nordhaus actually did. He acknowledges that the carbon tax raises many practical design and implementation questions. There are issues with cross-border taxes on carbon emissions and issues with administrative inefficiencies.

In fact, the Parliamentary Budget Officer said that the cost of administering the carbon tax in Canada, which, as I have shown, is ineffective and does not reduce greenhouse gas emissions, is $174 million, outside of the cost to Canadians in their pocketbooks. There is no price elasticity data by the Liberals to show that the $40 per tonne would actually reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

For comparison, the United Nations report the Liberals often cite actually estimates that the government would need to impose effective carbon prices of $135 to $5,500 per tonne of carbon dioxide by 2030. This does not take into account any sort of economic growth modelling or what would happen to the growth of the Canadian or global economy at this point in time.

There are other things that this professor talks about in terms of some of the inefficiencies and uncertainties that could be applied to the Liberals' ineffective plan.

In one of his books, he writes, “The exact pace and extent of future CO2-induced warming are highly uncertain, particularly beyond the next few decades.” Yes, there might be a consensus view, but he notes, “Science does not proceed by majority vote.”

He notes that costs are key:

People want to be assured...that [carbon emissions] targets are not simply the result of overly concerned environmentalists who are intent on saving their ecosystems at the expense of humans.... People want to compare costs and benefits.... It will not be sufficient to say: “Ecosystems are priceless”, or “We must pay any cost to save the polar bears.”

He also notes that modelling is hard. The Financial Post said:

Of his own computer exercises looking into the implications of climate tipping points, he emphasizes that the assumptions he makes “are at the outer limit of what seems plausible and have no solid basis in empirical estimates of damages”.

This is a complex issue with complex economic modelling, which the Liberals have not explained to Canadians. They have not talked about the fact that the $40-a-tonne price on carbon will not reduce greenhouse gas emissions, yet they are asking Canadians to pay a very high cost for that. It is morally bankrupt and it is wrong.

Nordhaus also notes that all countries, the poorest countries included, need to be included in globally binding emissions structures in order for this to have any effect. However, the Liberals are not doing any of the things cited by this economist, absolutely zero.

A few other things have been raised in debate today. The member for Vancouver Kingsway cited B.C.'s carbon tax. He cited this 2.2% emissions reduction as if it were a victory. However, he is looking at data in the context of the Lower Mainland, B.C. It is warmer there, and there is more public transit. The price elasticity for carbon there might be different from that in rural Saskatchewan. If we are looking for a solution to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in Canada, it has to be a solution that applies to the entire country without harming our economy.

Members opposite brought up Preston Manning. I think Preston Manning's approach on this is absolutely wrong. I question why Preston Manning is doing this. I would even go as far as to speculate that he is doing this to raise funds for his think tank, not to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. I would be happy to debate Preston Manning, on any stage, on the same data I have put forward, because this is not right and it will not reduce greenhouse gas emissions in Canada.

Members opposite have also cited the Pope. Members cannot stand in the House of Commons and say that we need a science-based, empirical response to climate change, not produce their own data and then cite religion, from a man who would not even meet the litmus test to run as a Liberal candidate.

Members opposite have talked about revenue neutrality. I will explain this concept for those listening and for my stepson, Kepi. According to the government, and only a Liberal would say that, revenue neutrality means paying a tax and getting an equal amount of money for it. That is crazy, because, as members know, it costs money to take money away. People are paid from the $174-million administrative cost. People will not get the same amount of money back in a cascading tax that affects every single level of production. This has been borne out by data reports in British Columbia, which have shown that the tax has become regressive. It is not revenue-neutral anymore.

Furthermore, with respect to the purported rebate that is going to Canadians, which the government said was factually correct, the Parliamentary Budget Officer, in an announcement, showed that the average carbon tax rebate Canadians received in 2018 was significantly lower than the amount the Liberals claimed Canadians would receive.

If it is not reducing greenhouse gas emissions, people are paying more and it is not revenue-neutral, why would we accept this as the status quo when talking about what we are doing for the children? It is just crazy.

In addition, the Liberals, the NDP and the Greens all say that this will not affect the economy. That is bunk. I will tie this into the concept that the Liberal carbon tax actually exacerbates climate change globally, because when we tax goods that are produced under high environmental standards, such as we have in Canada, we actually displace them with goods coming from higher-carbon jurisdictions. A perfect example of this is steel production in Canada.

When our steel producers in Ontario were subject to a carbon tax and Chinese steel was not, and the Chinese government was able to dump steel in Canada at lower prices, that was actually displacing goods in Canada that were produced under lower emissions standards.

We, as a country, can put a carbon tax on greenhouse gas emissions until the cows come home, but as long as we are buying goods from China, India, Brazil and the United States, we are not going to tackle the issue of greenhouse gas emissions. There needs to be a globally binding system that reduces greenhouse gas emissions, with binding targets, for this to work.

What should we do? Tomorrow, my leader is going to announce a very comprehensive plan that addresses many of these issues. Again, I do not want to scoop him. We need a made-in-Canada solution that addresses the fact that we have a regionalized economy. It is cold here. There are not a lot of substitutes for our products. We have a wealth of technology that needs the right incentives to be adopted. We need energy efficiency standards. This is just me thinking up things.

Our global climate action cannot be the Minister of Environment going on a photo op tour where the most environmentally friendly thing she did was sit at a table covered in grass and drink cocktails. That was not Canada using its role on the world stage to incent climate action.

I want to speak to the Conservative record. The Liberals can say that the Conservatives do not have a plan until the cows come home, but there is one inconvenient truth: there is only one time in Canada's history when we saw a reduction of greenhouse gas emissions while the economy grew. It was under Stephen Harper's government, when we imposed regulations on passenger vehicles. I would also argue with the member for Vancouver Kingsway about any reductions they saw in B.C. What about the passenger vehicle reductions we put in place?

The coal-fired regulations on Canada's coal-fired sector came in under a Conservative government, because we believe, and here is the underlying point, that we need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions without undermining the Canadian economy. I am standing here as an Alberta MP, because these guys have used their apocalypse porn to put my riding out of work. The Liberals have done nothing to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. They have stood here and railed, “What about the children?” The Liberals have done nothing to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and they have put my riding out of work. That is morally bankrupt. That is crass politics.

Members should be concerned about what political party they stand for after this debate. It is partisan. The Liberals stand here, apocalypse porn and all, behind policy instruments that do not work, and then they want me to look at my children and my grandchild and say, “Yeah, it was great. It was non-partisan. We did nothing.” That is wrong.

I was actually at an event with Al Gore, and I debated Al Gore. I wish that event had been public, because it was a lot of fun. There is a lot of inconvenient truth about the buzzwords that come out of these communities that do nothing to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

We have a responsibility to take action in Canada. Conservatives have done that. In fact, the last Liberal government saw greenhouse gas emissions rise by 30% when it was in government. The Liberals are probably on track to do the same here.

This should be partisan, because these guys have made this all about falsehoods, all about policy, and have done nothing to materially reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change said that it is time to be debating solutions and implementing those solutions. The kids are all right. They want us to take action. They do. However, a price on carbon that does nothing to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and puts people out of work in this country, and allows countries like China to get away with producing goods in a high-carbon jurisdiction while we buy them, is not action. That is politics. That is morally bankrupt.

Since this might be one of the last times I speak in this House in this Parliament, I want to thank all my constituents in Calgary Nose Hill for giving me the opportunity to fight for them. It is important. I would just say to them that we fought hard. We fought the Liberal government at every turn, and we have had great success in holding it to account and making it step back on some of the policies.

Now the time to fight goes to my constituents, so I ask them to join us.