House of Commons Hansard #14 of the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was medical.

Topics

Technical Difficulties of Members Participating Virtually—Speaker's RulingPoints of Order

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

Before resuming debate, colleagues, I would like to make a statement regarding members participating via the video conferencing system during debate.

On separate occasions, on October 7 and 8, two members encountered technical difficulties when the video feed was lost, either during or prior to their intervention. In the first instance, the member for Gatineau was allowed to continue with audio only, but objections were raised when the member for Calgary Midnapore was invited to do the same the following day at the start of her speech. This led to the member for Elmwood—Transcona and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House to seek direction from the Chair should the House be faced with similar situations in the future.

I want to thank both members for their intervention. While the special order of September 23 specifically requires that members voting by video conference have their camera on for the duration of the vote, it remains silent on the issue of members speaking in debate. For this reason, the Chair exercised caution and flexibility, knowing that proper authentication was not in question and that the House could decide how to manage this situation as it did on Thursday, October 8.

Since then, as I understand, consultations with the parties have taken place and all recognized parties have concluded the camera must be on for the entire intervention. A course of action to manage any technical difficulties was therefore established and agreed upon.

When members lose visual contact prior or during a speech, the Chair will interrupt the proceedings momentarily while the technical issue is being addressed. At the same time, the table will consult with the member's whip to determine if an adjustment to the rotation list is being considered. If the member is unable to start or resume the intervention fairly quickly, debate will continue by proceeding to the next member on the rotation list unless there is an agreement to accommodate the member having the technical trouble.

To avoid such situations and allow the House administration to provide the necessary assistance, I remind members participating by video conference to connect well in advance of their scheduled intervention.

As we move through the technical intricacies of hybrid sittings, I invite House officers to consider and address the unexpected and unintentional effects that virtual proceedings can sometimes have on the work of members. Their collaboration and assistance are appreciated.

I also want to remind hon. members that it is their individual responsibility to ensure they are in a place that has sufficient bandwidth for interpreters and fellow members to receive a clear transmission.

I thank members for their attention.

The House resumed from October 9 consideration of the motion that Bill C-7, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (medical assistance in dying), be read the second time and referred to a committee.

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11:05 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, allow me the opportunity to reflect on what has brought us to this point.

Shortly after the 2015 election, a number of pieces of legislation were brought before the House. One of those pieces was Bill C-14, a direct response to courts and the many concerns Canadians had with regard to the issue of dying with medical assistance. The issue was thoroughly discussed and debated. A lot of dialogue took place inside and outside the chamber, and, in fact, across the country. The number of Canadians who were engaged in the legislation was extraordinarily high. That was reinforced earlier this year, but I will get to that particular point later.

Back in January or February 2016, there was a great deal of dialogue taking place. Bill C-14 ultimately passed just prior to the summer break, in June 2016. At the time, parliamentarians recognized that there would be a need to make some modifications. In fact, within the legislation we passed, we created the opportunity for us to review it.

It should come as no surprise to anyone that the issue continues today. Even without legislation, dialogue has been taking place among members of Parliament and constituents. I have had ongoing feedback on the issue, in particular through emails, since 2016. People have expressed concerns and issues with the legislation.

The Superior Court of Quebec made a determination on the legislation, which ultimately dictated that we had to bring in Bill C-7. We had initially introduced the bill earlier this year, I think in February. Prior to its being introduced, Canadians were once again formally called upon to provide their thoughts on the issue. It was amazing that in a relatively short time span, we heard from in excess of 300,000 Canadians. People from all across the nation responded to provide their thoughts and ideas on what they would like to see the government and members of Parliament deal with on this very important issue.

We were very hopeful that a committee would have the opportunity to meet and review the legislation, with the idea of looking at ways it might be changed. Then came the pandemic. As we all know, the focus and attention of Canadians changed, just as the House's priorities had to change, in order to respond to the COVID-19 pandemic. As a direct result, we lost the opportunity for that parliamentary group or committee to get together to review the past legislation, and in fact even the legislation that was being proposed in January or February.

Fast-forward to where we are today. Bill C-7 responds to a decision of the Superior Court of Quebec. It is a reasonable and acceptable piece of legislation that, in this form, makes some changes. It deals with some very difficult issues. For example, it drops the number of days of waiting from 10, after a person is approved and in a near-death situation. I believe this will generally receive good support from all sides of the House. There is the reduction of witnesses from two to one. From what little debate there has been thus far, I believe this has the potential to receive good support. The criteria that a person's death must be reasonably foreseeable is an issue that no doubt will be talked about at great length, both in the chamber and at committee. There are other aspects of this legislation that I find very compelling, and I am very interested to hear what people have to say about them.

A big concern I have is the idea that someone is able to provide consent today but, as an illness or a disease continues, might be prevented from being able to give consent knowingly later, thereby disallowing them from having medical assistance in passing. I know many Canadians share that concern. I am expecting to see a good, healthy discussion on that, whether inside the chamber, in committees or in our constituencies, where we receive feedback.

There is the issue of mental illness and the severity of it. This area is worth ongoing exploration, in different ways. As a former member of the Manitoba legislative assembly, I remember that often when we talked about spending money in health care, mental illness was nowhere near being part of the discussion. In fact, it was a very dear friend of mine, Dr. Gulzar Cheema, who raised this issue at a time when very few people raised it. In general, it is something we need to debate more.

I suspect that as we continue the debate, whether in the chamber or at committee, we will see that it is very emotional for a number of people. I know first-hand how important palliative care is, through the experience of the passing of family, in particular my grandmother and my father. I am very grateful for the Riverview Health Centre in Winnipeg for the service in palliative care they provided. To be there at the passing of my father meant a great deal for me personally, as I knew that when he was there he had the love and care of professionals who deal with people who are passing on. A person has to have a very special heart to deal with that. I had a similar experience with my grandmother, at St. Boniface Hospital. They are two totally different institutions, but the thing they have in common is the supports that are there.

I believe we need to do more in the area of palliative care, and I would love to see more discussion, more debate and more action on the issue. I believe the federal government has a role to play in that area too.

To conclude, I will emphasize for members that here is an opportunity for us not only to look at the core of the issue and have discussions, but to look at some of the issues surrounding end of life and the circumstances that, either directly or indirectly, we are all somewhat familiar with.

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11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Eric Melillo Conservative Kenora, ON

Madam Speaker, one of the things the member mentioned was improvements to palliative care. I think it is important to note that northern regions of the country and rural and remote regions, particularly indigenous communities in my riding, are chronically underserved in health care delivery.

What does the government plan to do to ensure that residents of indigenous communities, and northern and remote communities, have access to all health care options, including palliative care?

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11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, that is an excellent question, and that is why it is so important that Ottawa work with provincial jurisdictions. Health care, which incorporates palliative care, is administered by the provinces. The palliative care units that we often talk about are administered through our provinces. Ottawa has a role to play through standards and financial support.

We can learn a lot from the provinces. Some provinces deal with health care in different ways, such as urban versus rural. There are opportunities for us not to reinvent the wheel, but rather to look at who is doing it best: look for best practices and ensure that there is some sense of a national standard so that, when our loved ones need palliative care, their ending days are appropriately taken care of.

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11:20 a.m.

Bloc

Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Madam Speaker, this bill is one more step toward more equitable situation-dependent access to medical assistance in dying. This weekend, I had a conversation with my father. I believe there is an issue here with respect to foreseeability.

Take, for example, a person diagnosed with a very serious terminal illness who may nevertheless live for months or years. Can that person ask their doctor now to administer medical assistance in dying once the disease has progressed to a particular stage, even though that person may be incapable of requesting MAID once that time comes?

Will that be possible?

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11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, I do not necessarily know all of the details. Within the legislation, from what I understand, the issue of second consent is important, as is the impact that it has on people who have a deteriorating illness. Today, they might be in a position to give consent, but in their dying days they might not be in that same position.

I believe there is an attempt to deal directly with that issue within the legislation. It is a good question, and I suspect it will be asked once it hits the committee stage.

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11:20 a.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Madam Speaker, this is a very important conversation to be having, and I appreciate all of the interventions that have been made by members of the House.

One of my questions is around that second track of accessing MAID, which requires that one of the two medical practitioners assessing the person has expertise in that condition. Considering that in Alberta, in particular, there are many communities where doctors have been leaving because of current fights with our provincial government, how will the government deal with the fact that some people will not be able to access doctors? Those doctors are not working in remote or rural communities right now, for that second track of the MAID.

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11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, we need to go to my first answer, where I recognized that Ottawa needs to work with the provinces, particularly the different departments and ministries of health, to ensure that there is a sense of fairness and equity, no matter what region of the nation people are in.

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11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

Madam Speaker, this is such an important debate that we are having here today, and I thank members for sharing their stories.

This is a very personal debate. I recall speaking on Bill C-14 when I first joined Parliament. I talked about my own experiences with death. I have watched other families go through these issues as well. We talked about how we could be part of making those last few days, months, and sometimes years work well and make sure of the necessary resources.

I am coming to this debate speaking from two sides, and am almost sitting on the fence on this. I am bringing forward a letter from Richard Sitzes, who is the chair of Our Choice Matters, part of Community Living Elgin. I would like to read this letter into Hansard, because I think it is very important to hear the voices and concerns of those who are disabled. I am also going to read some Twitter posts from the late Mike Sloan. Other people have covered this, and those in London would know that Mike Sloan passed away on January 20, 2020, with medical assistance in dying. He had a very difficult time, but he shared his experiences through his Twitter feed. Because of my work here in Parliament with those with disabilities, I had started a relationship with him and discussed what life looked like and how we were to move forward.

I will begin with the letter from Richard Sitzes, chair of Our Choice Matters, which is a self-advocate group. He writes:

I'm a constituent in your riding and live in St. Thomas, and am very concerned about Bill C-7 and the changes to Canada's law on medical assistance in dying (MAID). I'm worried about the negative impacts this bill will have for people who have a disability in our riding.

As chair of the Our Choice Matters self advocate group, supported by Community Living Elgin, I am speaking on behalf of our group. In Canada, many people think that their having a disability causes suffering, but people who have a disability say that it is the lack of supports, not disability, that causes them to suffer. We fear that Bill C-7 will make this situation even worse.

Right now, Canadians can only access MAID if they are suffering and close to death. Bill C-7 will make it possible for a person who has a disability to choose medical assistance to die, even if they are not close to death. We strongly believe that removing the end-of-life requirement will increase negative ideas and discrimination against people who have a disability. It will grow the idea that life with a disability is not worth living. We are afraid that people who have a disability will feel pressured to end their lives even if they are not close to death. This has already happened in Canada, and it will get worse because of Bill C-7.

We believe that the federal government should make it easier for people with disabilities to live good lives, not end them. For the safety of people who have a disability, MAID must be available only to people who are close to death. We strongly oppose Bill C-7 and ask that you oppose this legislation.

I was fortunate to follow up on this letter with Richard last week. He has been a volunteer, not only in my office but in our community, for decades. He is a person we see at every volunteer opportunity. He is there at community events to lend a hand. He looks at his life and recognizes that he has so much to give to our community. I have never met a kinder soul in my life. He just wants to help and at the same time wants to be heard. Having had the opportunity to sit down and talk to Richard, I know his concern is that he will not be the person making that choice, but that it will be made for him. He told me that he did not know who would have the final choice. This is something that Richard, who just celebrated his 60th birthday on August 15, is very concerned with. When I look at Richard, I do not see his life as being worth any less than mine. He has so much to offer to all Canadians. I hope we recognize it is imperative that we have appropriate safeguards for people like Richard who have so much to offer.

On the other side, there are some positives as well. This is where I want to talk about Mike Sloan. He was able to share with Canadians, especially in my region, his everyday struggles of living with cancer. As I indicated, I had created a bond with Mike over the last number of years. When he called to tell me he had cancer, the two of us talked about what he would be going through.

Mike had decided that he was going to die with medical assistance. Watching his death, I can understand why. I understand the struggles that he went through, and want to read some of the things that were put on his Twitter feed.

Madam Speaker, how much time do I have, given that I talk so much?

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11:25 a.m.

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Mrs. Alexandra Mendès

Five minutes.

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11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

Fantastic. Okay, that is great.

I want to talk about Mike. There was a CTV interview done with Mike back in early January. Mike had already pinned to his desk area his plans for his own funeral, with the date to be determined. He knew what he wanted in life. He was also a very strong advocate for those with disabilities, but when he got cancer he knew that there were going to be struggles. It was not just his mental capacity he was concerned with, but the physical pain he was going through.

I want to start off with the day of Mike's death: January 20. Bob Smith, a Rogers TV host in the London area, wrote:

Mike Sloan passed peacefully at 1:25 pm EST via MAID. He asked me...to let you know. I was with him at the end, holding his hand. He thanks you all for your support on this journey. His last words were, “Tell Chub I love him.”

Chub was Mike's cat. If anyone knew Mike, Chub got him through each and every day. Chub could always be relied on because some days were a little harder than others.

Going back to January 18, Mike wrote, “When it's getting too frightening to drink liquids because they may simply spit back up or choke me, you know, let's be honest about choices here.” To me that statement by him is extremely impactful. Another day he talked about being afraid to get in the shower. He was afraid of falling in the shower. He would get in and fall and started thinking that even though he was a young guy he might need a bench. He was going through all of those different issues each and every day.

Mike was diagnosed with stage four thyroid cancer in February of 2019. He tweeted about his experiences with palliative care and the care he received. It was interesting for anyone to watch this as he would show his belly, which had different things attached for his pain medication. The thing that was so incredible about this man, for any of the other members from the London area, is that he had an incredible sense of humour. He would post a picture of his belly tied to a medical bag that he called his “little purse,” which contained his pain medication. He would also show the different tubes that he would inject the medication in to make the pain go away. He was in absolute pain.

He wrote on January 7, “I've never died before, so I don't know what it feels like, but if agonizing pain, difficulty breathing, a fever and inability to sleep are symptoms, I'm getting there.” This was a man who did not fear death, but recognized that it was going to happen. He was also a man who would go into the hospital and just be released. What was actually really comical was when he went in with shortness of breath and walked out saying he was being released with pneumonia, but was walking and doing well.

Thinking of Mike, we have to find the right balance. We have to find the balance so that the Mike Sloans and the Richard Sitzes of this world have their wishes honoured. I recognize that this is a very difficult decision for many members of Parliament.

I can tell my colleagues that my vote on Bill C-14 was the most difficult vote I ever made. One of the most important things was that there were safeguards to make sure that the family, individual and entire team involved in medical assistance in dying all knew what they were getting into. It is really important that we make sure that those safeguards are in place and use strong caution with Bill C-7 as to whether this may open a new can of worms.

I am very proud to talk about this because it needs to be debated. There is no wrong or right answer. It is about finding a balance for all Canadians.

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11:30 a.m.

Parkdale—High Park Ontario

Liberal

Arif Virani LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Madam Speaker, my thanks to the hon. member for Elgin—Middlesex—London for her contributions to this debate and in the past years. She raised a very important point when she related the story about Richard. I want to state at the outset that obviously our government values all lives, including the lives of persons with disabilities. We have reflected that in the supports we have put in place. Those lives are also protected by the Constitution.

I put this to the member for Elgin—Middlesex—London, because she ended by talking about safeguards. I actually raised the issue about pressure being put on individuals during my consultations with various members of the medical establishment. They indicated to me that in the province of Ontario, for example, not a single prosecution had happened in the case of a doctor alleged to have pressured an individual. I put that out there for context.

How does the member feel about the safeguards put in place where the decision has to be the decision of the individual? It has to be in writing and it has to be witnessed. Counselling and supports must be provided to such an individual, including disability supports.

Do those address at least some of Richard's concerns?

I appreciate it is a difficult situation and I can see the member struggling with it, but I just put that out there as part of the conversation about this important bill.

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11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

Madam Speaker, the safeguards are something I am concerned about. Last night, while driving to Ottawa, I listened to a podcast from The Ottawa Hospital and the doctor on it talked about the first time—I'm sorry, that was probably another interview I listened to. Yesterday I listened to six hours of interviews on this.

Not a single person has gone to court, nor have any physicians received judgments or charges based on whether persons were fragile enough to die. There is a whole variety there. One of my concerns is, as we know and as the member from Edmonton indicated, that there are not enough resources.

I am in a smaller community as well. For people to get an appointment with a psychiatrist in my area usually takes nine to 12 months. When people are going through this, they have a really short window in which to receive this type of support. By reducing some of the time frames, we will not be able to provide the services that are really important for the patients, the Canadians, who are making this difficult decision.

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11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her presentation. I appreciate her sensitivity on this matter and would like to hear her thoughts on the following.

My colleague just mentioned the importance of making sure everyone has access to health care. I would like to go back to an important aspect of this bill.

Would she agree that we need to stop putting palliative care and medical assistance in dying at odds with one another?

The two are not mutually exclusive. In other words, people should be allowed to choose medical assistance in dying if they so wish, just as people who want palliative care should be able to receive it for as long as possible. This might require an increase in health transfers.

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11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

Madam Speaker, we know that the member for Sarnia—Lambton put forward a bill and worked with the late honourable Mark Warawa on palliative care. We can do both. We can walk and chew gum, and we should increase our efforts in palliative care.

My Aunt Catherine passed away in hospice. It was a very important time for her family to be there and celebrate her life, but we have to recognize that not everyone has these options. Palliative care is something we should be working on, and the member is right that we should be doing both.

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11:35 a.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

Madam Speaker, it is so wonderful to hear the member for Elgin—Middlesex—London bring in the human element that is so critical to this debate.

One of the challenges created by the current medical assistance in dying legislation is the requirement for final consent at the time the assistance is rendered. This forces patients to make a cruel choice when faced with a possible loss of competence that would make them unable to give consent. They are forced to either go earlier or risk not being able to receive the assistance they need.

Audrey Parker campaigned to make Canadians aware of this problem, and Bill C-7 would fix it by creating a waiver of final consent. I would ask the member this: Do the Conservatives support Audrey's amendment, which would help those facing the end of life to avoid this cruel choice?

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11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

Madam Speaker, I am very fortunate to be in a caucus where these issues are discussed and where we all have different ideas. I know where I stand, but I may be different than my neighbours on both sides. One just does not know. However, everybody should have the opportunity to have those discussions.

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11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise today, but I find it difficult to be speaking to another attempt by the Liberal government to endanger the most vulnerable in our society.

After just four years, when the original euthanasia and assisted suicide legislation came in through Bill C-14, we find ourselves considering legislation that would further loosen restrictions, eliminate safeguards and confuse our country's understanding of the sanctity of life and the government's role in end-of-life decisions. Once again, we have been told that in order to uphold the charter rights of some we must endanger the rights and freedoms of others.

I did not support Bill C-14 for many reasons. The first is the fact that the Supreme Court of Canada invoked such controversial and flawed legislation, which has been proven to be poorly applied around the world. The Liberals also chose to broaden the scope of the legislation, going far beyond the Carter decision. Another reason is that it has been placed ahead of and continues to overshadow any significant palliative care initiative.

In 2019, the Prime Minister promised to expand eligibility criteria, and on September 11 of last year, the Superior Court of Quebec ruled that it is unconstitutional to limit assisted suicide or euthanasia only to those whose death is reasonably foreseeable. Without even appealing the ruling and seeking the advice of the Supreme Court, which has been long occupied with this matter, the Liberals accepted the ruling. They are now rushing to change the law for our entire country.

They gave Canadians a mere two weeks to have their views heard on this deeply personal and complicated issue through a flawed online consultation questionnaire. The use of convoluted and biased language left little to the imagination in terms of how the government planned to legislate assisted death. I too tried to fill it out, and I would argue that many opposed would have been discouraged in participating due solely to the language used.

With such a flawed method, and with no idea if the feedback even remotely reflects the actual views of Canadians, how can the government proceed with this legislation in good faith? This is a rhetorical question because it does not seem to matter to these Liberals. It is clear they used this brief window for feedback to satiate the need for a consultative process.

We also know the government ignored its own timeline for a review of the original assisted suicide legislation, Bill C-14. It was planned for this summer, and instead, we have been presented with this reckless legislation. In the midst of COVID, this was still something very important. Without a proper review and without input from the Supreme Court, this House has been asked to greatly broaden the scope of assisted suicide and euthanasia without a clear enough understanding of whether the current regime is being consistently interpreted or properly enforced.

Bill C-7 is being rushed through. This is concerning. When reading through this bill, I see elements that go beyond the scope of the Superior Court of Quebec's decision, namely, Bill C-7 would eliminate the 10-day waiting period between the date the request is signed and the day on which the procedure is carried out.

The application of the law pertaining to those whose death is reasonably foreseeable has been problematic from the very start of this debate. We know a person's reasonably foreseeable death is a flexible estimation, taking into account all of their medical circumstances, without a prognosis necessarily having been made as to the specific length of time they have remaining. The elimination of the 10-day waiting period for persons whose death is reasonably foreseeable would create the conditions for someone with an indeterminate length of time remaining in their life, possibly years, to be rushed to the decision to receive assisted suicide and euthanasia.

Aside from simply eliminating what most Canadians would consider to be a reasonable period of reflection, this element of the bill also ignores the possibility of medical advances and improved treatment methods in an incredibly innovative medical science environment. As Cardinal Collins has said, Bill C-7 creates the conditions where an individual can seek a medically assisted death faster than the wait time for a gym membership or a condominium purchase.

I also see no logical reason why the government would reduce the number of independent witnesses required for when the request is signed. It is down from two to one. The government has even relaxed the definition of someone who may serve as a witness, including medical professionals or personal care workers, even those who are paid to provide euthanasia and assisted suicide on a daily basis. This is in clause 1(8).

Surely we can agree that, for the vast majority of those requesting euthanasia and assisted suicide, the requirement for two independent individuals to witness a request to end a life is a reasonable safeguard. How do the Liberals plan to properly protect patients from potential malpractice? How does the government plan on ensuring requesters are presented with a myriad of treatment options rather than just one opinion?

The legislation continues as a series of safeguards the medical practitioner must adhere to before providing assisted suicide to those whose death is not reasonably foreseeable. One of these safeguards would require a medical practitioner to discuss with the person the means available to relieve their suffering, including palliative care.

The safeguard is even weaker for those whose death is reasonably foreseeable, requiring the medical practitioner to merely inform the person of these vital options. The government failed to follow through on its promise to invest $3 billion in long-term care, which includes palliative care. There does not appear to be any political will whatsoever to improve palliative care.

Canadians have also been calling on the government for a long-awaited national strategy for palliative care. There is a thirst among Canadians for real solutions to end-of-life care. The government seems all too willing to ignore the 70% of Canadians without access to palliative care and, instead, attempts to impose on them a flawed, one-size-fits-all regime. We can already see the consequences of pushing forward an assisted dying agenda when there is little regard for palliative care.

In British Columbia, the Delta Hospice Society was stripped of 94% of its operating budget for refusing to provide euthanasia in a facility intended for the provision of palliative care. Despite repeated attempts to defend its Charter-protected, faith-based objection to being required to provide euthanasia and reach a compromise in good faith, 10 hospice care beds are now at risk and will be surely defunded.

Why do the Liberals continue to ignore the voices of those who have a different perspective on the issue of end-of-life care? People who seek hospice care are seeking it for a reason. They do not desire a medically assisted death. In effect, what has happened in B.C. is an attempt to redefine what constitutes palliative care.

In fact, the Fraser Health Authority's decision flies in the face of the Canadian Society of Palliative Care Physicians, which has clarified that euthanasia and assisted suicide are distinct from palliative care. I caution Canadians not to regard the Delta Hospice Society's situation as an isolated one. The government has shown little interest in supporting hospice care, and I would not be surprised by further attacks on the ability of Canadians to chose to end their lives naturally.

In The Globe and Mail, Sarah Gray put it well, stating, “The hospice isn’t a place where people come to die. It is where they come to live — to live well for the little time they have left. It is a place of celebration, connection, comfort and support. It is a place of safety for the dying and the grieving.” In Cardinal Collins' words, let us work to create a “culture of care”, rather than rush toward a culture of “death on demand”.

The government would also be wise to recall that much of the debate on Bill C-14 revolved around calls for a solid framework of conscience protection for medical practitioners involved throughout the end-of-life process. At committee, witnesses stated that the protection of conscience should be included in the government's legislative response to Carter v. Canada.

The Canadian Medical Association confirmed conscience protection for physicians would not affect access to physician-assisted suicide or euthanasia. Its statistics indicated that 30% of physicians across Canada, or 24,000, are willing to provide it. I live in a rural area of Canada, and I can assure members there are many provisions that are not available to me directly where I live.

Unfortunately, the Liberals failed to defend the conscience rights of Canadians in Bill C-14. I also found it disappointing that they failed to support, in the last Parliament, critical legislation put forward by David Anderson in Bill C-418, the protection of freedom of conscience act. It would have made it a criminal offence to intimidate or force a medical professional to be involved in the procedure. It would also have made it a criminal offence to fire or refuse to employ a medical professional who refuses to take part directly or indirectly in MAID.

Here we are four years later, and Bill C-7 is also void of any provisions that would protect the section 2 rights of Canadians. In Canada, everyone has freedom of conscience and religion under section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. No one has the right to demand all services from all providers in all circumstances. As David stated, protections are needed for doctors and health care providers who are not willing to leave their core ethics behind when they are at a patient's bedside. Access to euthanasia and conscientious objection are not mutually exclusive.

We, as legislators, must ask ourselves where the Liberals will draw the line. There will always be the voices of those in our society who feel that the limitations and safeguards are too stringent. When will it be enough for the Liberal government? How far are they willing to go? What message are we sending to the most vulnerable and fragile in our society?

Over the last five years I have advocated for our veterans. I know there are countless veterans who appear able to cope with debilitating physical injuries, but they are extremely vulnerable in their mental health. We are all concerned about the number of them choosing to end their lives by suicide because of complications after serving our country. It is antithetical to try to prevent them from taking their own lives, yet tell them that there are government-designed opportunities to do so.

Bill C-7 fails to provide conscience protection, fails to protect the vulnerable and fails to fulfill the need—

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11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Guelph.

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11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Madam Speaker, unfortunately I found a lot of partisan comments in the member's intervention in contrast to the comments from the member for Elgin—Middlesex—London. This as a non-partisan issue.

I was visiting businesses in downtown Guelph this morning and I spoke with one of the business owners. He talked about his parents in England, how they had gone through this choice and how other countries provided ways in which people who faced death could control their exit through proper legislation.

I wonder if the member could comment on getting the personal comments directly from people who face those choices, even posthumously, as the member for Elgin—Middlesex—London presented to us, and should we should be looking at including those comments in the committee's study should we be able to get the bill to committee?

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11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Madam Speaker, I would disagree with the member's comments. I totally agree with the member for Elgin—Middlesex—London. We are on the same page on this.

That being said, we have approached it from two different perspectives. On the personal side, I hear those things all the time. The concern is that at what point do we come to a decision on what the responsibility of the government is. I understand we want choice, but the problem is that there are not enough safeguards for those individuals, where it is creeping into a sense that their rights and privileges under the charter are being challenged. That is what I expressed here. Right now we are at the place where we are the line between those who want a certain thing and those who do not. Someone's rights will be trampled if we do not deal with this very carefully.

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11:50 a.m.

NDP

Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Madam Speaker, as citizens, we should all agree that it is important to prevent needless suffering at end of life and that it should be up to individuals to decide how they want to end their lives with dignity. However, we also need a legal framework to ensure that doctors can act within the law without being faulted after the fact for having helped someone end their life.

Would my colleague not agree that doctors need a legal framework to be able to do this work?

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11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Madam Speaker, a legal framework was presented in Bill C-14. However, the Canadian Society of Palliative Care Physicians has said that there is creep where palliative care facilities are being shut down because the physicians do not feel they should be providing assisted suicide or euthanasia, and their rights are being trampled upon. Many people in our country choose not to go that route. Their rights and their protections need to be in place as well.

That is why we need a better focus on palliative care. We cannot say that we are giving people an option when people do not have an option. The government committed to a national strategy on palliative care and it is our responsibility as national legislators to make it very clear that palliative care is distinct from euthanasia.

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11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Madam Speaker, I definitely am in full support of my hon. colleague's very moving remarks. A disability advocate called my office this past week. She was very concerned about watering down protections for vulnerable people by removing the requirements on physicians and having a physician who specializes in the area being involved.

Is there any provision for social workers to be involved? Frankly, physicians are not always equipped to recognize when there might be undue family pressure or other intersectional pressures being put on the patient to make an assisted-death call. What are my hon. colleague's thoughts on that?