House of Commons Hansard #35 of the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chair.

Topics

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague for his active role in this area. I know that the ethics committee has done tremendous work in terms of providing recommendations that have been incorporated into the legislation.

With regard to political parties, it is important to note, as the member has indicated, that the legislation is focused on commercial activities. We are looking at not non-commercial activities but commercial activities, to strengthen the privacy in this area and to make sure that Canadians have more control, not less control, and that there is greater transparency, greater accountability and meaningful fines that will make sure organizations comply with the law. That is the object.

Again, the legislation is focused on commercial activities, not non-commercial activities.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

10:40 a.m.

Scarborough—Rouge Park Ontario

Liberal

Gary Anandasangaree LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations

Madam Speaker, first of all, I want to congratulate my friend on being featured in this year's LinkedIn Top Voices profile. I offer congratulations on that.

I would like to ask the minister about data mobility and how the bill would assist Canadians and Canadian businesses. Data mobility is an issue that we have heard a great deal about over the years.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague for his friendship and support. I have sought his counsel on numerous occasions to get his advice on issues he had heard about from his constituents.

He made it very clear that Canadians should have more control over their data and that Canadians should have greater privacy online. As he reminded me, particularly in this pandemic, more Canadians are learning online, working online and accessing information online.

One area we targeted and honed in on to provide greater control for Canadians was around data portability. This will enable, as the member clearly highlighted, the ability for individuals to transfer their data from one entity to another. This will create an enormous amount of activity online. It will empower Canadians, and it will create opportunities in many areas, including, as I mentioned, in the financial sector, with open banking for example.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Madam Speaker, it is great to talk about data portability and privacy, but it does not matter if Canadians do not have access.

In the connect to innovate program, the government spent a lot of money, but it did not spend a single penny in southwestern Ontario to connect businesses, residences and Canadians with the Internet in order to give them proper service. This area represents 20% of Canada's economic output. In my own area of Norfolk County, over 30% are still underserved. There is no indication of a carve-out in the new program for funding. However, there are parts built in for financing that would only benefit the big players.

If the minister is serious about his commitment to small business, will the new program be modified to support small business ISP providers and to provide service to southwestern Ontario so that everyone could enjoy the new freedoms and protections that the minister is speaking about today?

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague for her very thoughtful question and for her advocacy on the issue around connectivity. As a minister who served in the previous Harper government, she knows personally very well the importance of broadband connectivity.

If we look at the digital charter, the first principle talks about access. It is an important principle that we put forward in the digital charter, and it highlights the commitment that we recently made with regard to building on the work of the connect to innovate program through the universal broadband fund, as well as looking at low-earth orbit satellite technologies to provide that high-speed Internet connectivity for rural and remote communities.

From our perspective, it is all about more competition, which would provide more choice to Internet service providers, particularly the smaller ones, which would then enable prices to go down and would provide options to many Canadians, including those living in southwestern Ontario.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

Bloc

Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Madam Speaker, Bill C-11 will not protect personal data under the federal government's own jurisdiction. We saw what happened at the Canada Revenue Agency and how easy it is to steal a person's identity for all sorts of reasons. These are outdated tools when it comes to identity and security.

Why are there no rigorous standards set out for government agencies?

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

Liberal

Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Malton, ON

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for the question.

I understand that there are currently a lot of problems with data breaches. I hope that we can work together to come up with solutions for all Canadians.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Madam Speaker, today I am rising on Bill C-11, an act to implement a digital charter for government. This is an auspicious moment for Canada, because we are well under way in the digital age, and the need for clarity and concrete action to protect Canadians' privacy is a paramount need. While it is critically important, we also have to remember the need to protect small and medium-sized enterprises and to ensure that Canada can remain globally competitive as a jurisdiction for technology, data and innovation. I am concerned by some of the trends we have seen over the past few years, with Canada falling behind our global competitors, and I am concerned that some parts of this legislation could put us behind.

I am also concerned that we are falling behind when it comes to security. It is great to talk about protecting Canadians' privacy and putting in consent-based rules, but in an age of quantum decryption and computers that can break 120-bit encryption, if our security cannot be protected, then all the consent laws and privacy protections in the world are not going to mean much.

I want to break down this bill into simple terms. They talk about plain language in the bill, and so I am going to try to speak in as plain a language as I can, when dealing with a matter of this technical nature. I want to talk about some of the challenges and, I will grant the government, some of the opportunities that we foresee with this legislation. I want to also thank and recognize the work of the ethics and privacy committee in the previous Parliament, under the able chairmanship of my colleague from Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies. Many of the recommendations we have seen in this legislation come from the committee's report, so I think that shows Canadians that committees really do matter in the House, and that they can make a positive impact.

As I said, one of my chief concerns with this bill is its impact on small and medium-sized enterprises. It has been said for a number of years that data is the new oil. For many emerging enterprises, access to data and the ability to use this data will be the determining factor in whether they are successful or not. I do not need to say, but I will, that small and medium-sized enterprises are the lifeblood of our communities, and increasingly we are seeing how vulnerable they are, especially during the pandemic.

We have to consider the context of this legislation within the economy and the economic structures that the Liberal government has created over the past five years. We have seen an unrelenting attack on small and medium-sized enterprises, starting with hikes to Canada pension plan premiums. These hikes will continue even this January, in the midst of a pandemic. When companies are closing their doors and laying off workers, the government is looking at increasing costs even further for employers and employees. It is just not acceptable.

The Liberals in the past accused business people of being tax cheats when they utilized exemptions under the tax code. They decided to take it one step further by hiking taxes and removing these exemptions for many family-owned businesses, including for a lot of businesses and farm families in my riding. With this legislation, they are adding yet another layer of red tape that will force many onerous requirements on small businesses. I recognize that many of these requirements will be very helpful when we are talking about large businesses, and they have the resources to maintain these privacy requirements. I found it interesting that the minister was talking about the right to delete oneself. On many social media platforms that has been the case for a number of years, so it feels like with this legislation the government is trying to catch up to what businesses are already largely doing. However, we see that small enterprises are increasingly reliant on technology and data.

In this legislation, there are a number of new requirements. There is a certification requirement and a requirement for businesses to designate somebody in their business to be the privacy watchdog. Businesses have to maintain databases and be ready to respond to customer requests or investigations. When we talk about very small businesses, which could have only two or three staff or maybe a sole proprietor, to add this new layer of red tape is really going to create a lot of challenges for them.

Ironically, it would actually benefit big businesses because when small businesses have more red tape, they might decide to no longer stay in business. Therefore, we will see even more consolidation among the big players: the Amazons, the Walmarts and companies that are large collectors of personal data. Our thriving, innovative start-up economy will start to be strangled under this legislation.

I hope that when the government is considering amendments at committee, it consults with small businesses. I encourage it to consult with the CFIB to look at the challenges small businesses are going to face, and to try to come up with some sort of threshold to ensure that small businesses are not unduly burdened.

I appreciate that this bill is largely targeted at major corporations and tech giants that use massive amounts of personal data for everyday business. We know that these companies have the capacity to do better in protecting our privacy. I hope that this legislation can spur further commitments to protect Canadians' privacy. However, as I said, it concerns me that these large corporations largely have already implemented a lot of the things that the government is talking about. They have the human resources, legal departments and the endless ability to tap debt markets, bond markets and stock markets to finance these changes. Frankly, small businesses do not.

I asked the minister a question, which he really did not answer, about data portability and the impact on small and medium-sized enterprises. The minister couches it in terms of consumers having the right to ask for their data to be moved from one organization to another. It seems like a really great thing, but I cannot think of too many situations in which a regular Canadian would be the person initiating that conversation. However, I can see where a bank would, for example, when dealing with its insurance arm. Many large Canadian banks also have insurance companies.

There has been a fence put around these companies to ensure they do not become too big and anti-competitive. Information cannot currently be shared between insurance companies and banks owned by the same company, but through this legislation, the insurance company just needs to provide a plain-language document asking clients if they want their information to be shared with its banking arm. With the massive amount of data that insurance companies and banks have on Canadians, we can see how quickly they could possibly use this as a predatory practice to increase, consolidate and suck customers away from small and medium-sized insurance companies.

When I drive through my riding of Sturgeon River—Parkland, I am proud to see about a dozen small and medium-sized insurance businesses for auto, home and life insurance. There are tens of thousands of Canadians employed in this important industry, and they are not all working for the big banks. I really am concerned that this legislation could make our marketplace much less competitive, so I hope the government considers that impact as well.

My next point is about enforcement. I am really skeptical about the government's ability to deliver for Canadians. We see, in spam legislation and other legislation, that a lot of words are not being put into action and there are consequences for actions that are not being followed through on.

Similarly, this legislation packs a lot of firepower. It talks about threatening $10 million in fines, or up to 3% of global revenues. It is the toughest in the G7, as the government has said, but I wonder what power the government really has to compel payment. When we talk about potential serial abusers of our private data, we are talking about massive multinational corporations with billions in revenues.

I wonder if we can anticipate similar challenges as those faced by France when it attempted to collect taxes on digital giants from the United States. These included a challenge at the World Trade Organization and retaliatory tariffs on French products.

I wonder if the Liberals have given any thought to the potential consequences of trying to collect large fines from these companies. Does the government anticipate that our trade competitors are going to let these challenges go unanswered when we try to collect? Have the Liberals considered the consequences that this could have on the Canadian economy, and are they ready to be open about this very real threat? I am not saying that this is not something they should pursue, but we need to know what the potential consequences are before moving too quickly on this.

Canadian innovators are at the forefront of technological advancement, and I think that is something we can all be proud of. However, a concern that has been brought to my attention is the protection of proprietary algorithms by start-up tech companies that rely on data. Some of the provisions in the bill would enforce algorithmic transparency, which sounds great for consumers, but I see that it could be used by business competitors to expose sensitive, confidential and proprietary information.

Has the government considered the consequence of what these actions would do to our start-up companies that want to keep their algorithms proprietary and confidential? A company may be in a situation where it is looking for a buyout at a later date and needs to build up to the point where it can really get the value it believes the company is worth, but if this algorithmic transparency could be used by its competitors to investigate the use of its algorithms, it could possibly be used to steal things that are patent-pending or as leverage in a negotiation for a buyout. I would like to see more stringent protections for our nascent technological sector, to prevent their algorithms from being exposed.

Next, in the bill, the minister sort of alluded to the exemption for socially beneficial purposes. We need to drill down and explore the idea. The minister provided some examples: government, health care agencies and education. I do not think many Canadians could really object to these organizations being exempted, but one point named organizations that exist to promote environmental protection.

We believe in strong environmental protection, but are we possibly talking about environmental charities that may have a political arm or an agenda in an election? Are they going to be exempted to use Canadians' data in any way they see fit? What potential consequences could this have on keeping our elections free from foreign influence or ensuring transparency in political communications? I would really like to get a clearer idea of what the government means when it is talking about socially beneficial purposes, because we are living in an age, as the member for Timmins—James Bay said, when there are data wars. If organizations are misappropriating this data, using it to influence our elections and our democratic process and being provided an exemption, we really need to explore that.

Next I want to talk about the 10 pillars of the digital charter that the government has brought forward. We know that a charter, as any statement of values, is really only as good as the resources and enforcement behind it, so I want to highlight a few of these pillars and address some concerns that I have.

Pillar 1 talks about universal access: “All Canadians will have equal opportunity to participate in the digital world and the necessary tools to do so, including access, connectivity, literacy and skills.” As my colleague for Haldimand—Norfolk was saying, too many Canadians, the fourth coast as some would say, even in relatively urban areas, say that we are far from accessing high-speed and reliable broadband services.

For years, successive governments have pocketed billions and billions of dollars from spectrum auctions. They have been announcing and reannouncing, and in some cases reannouncing a reannouncement, on enhanced rural broadband. The Liberals have promised the universal broadband fund as their solution. They even claimed that they topped it up by another $750 million a few weeks ago, but communities in my riding who recently applied for the universal broadband fund were told that they did not qualify.

I come from a fairly rural riding, and people were basically told that, according to the data, the Internet in their communities is fast enough. That is not acceptable. They should try explaining that to farming families in Sturgeon or Parkland County, or try telling that to people living in Stony Plain, Gibbons and Morinville.

We still have movie rental stores in my riding. I asked somebody how these movie rental stores stay in business, and the fact is, the Internet is so bad, the only way for people to watch movies is to go to their local movie store because they cannot access Netflix and all these other great things.

We are talking about a pandemic right now, and increasingly parents are wanting to supplement their children's education at home. They cannot access their education. A principal of my local high school, Onoway Junior/Senior High School, lives less than one mile away from the high school. The high school has high-speed Internet that is connected by the Alberta SuperNet, but less than a mile away the principal cannot get any Internet services.

The government is saying their Internet is fast enough, and that they do not qualify for the universal broadband fund, but, if we do not qualify, then I do not know who qualifies. This is unacceptable. It is time for the Liberals to put real funds behind real action to deliver broadband access to Canadians in rural and remote areas.

Pillar two of the digital charter is safety and security. It reads, “Canadians will be able to rely on the integrity, authenticity and security of the services they use and should feel safe online”. This is yet another great promise that the Liberals have failed to deliver upon.

I remember over the summer, when scammers used Canadians' personal information on the Canada Revenue Agency website to access CERB payments. These were not foreign actors we were talking about. These were private actors using information that they could get their hands on to breach Canadians' accounts, and this breach was so bad that it even forced the CRA and the Service Canada websites to shut down.

Thousands of Canadians who wanted to were unable to access the CERB, and all the useful services on those websites, because the government has not put security as a priority. Security must be central to digital government and to our digital economy. I appreciate that the government wanted to get those programs out quickly, but we are increasingly seeing the consequences of not building in security from the foundation up.

It was not just the CERB program that was hacked. In February, news broke that the National Research Council systems were hacked, mainly the health research databases. This cyber-attack was caused by ransomware. The hackers used the ransomware to try to extract payment from the government. Every year the National Research Council collects information on more than 25 million health care consumers across the U.S. and Canada. The National Research Council was also hacked in 2017 by state actors.

This continues to be quite a substantial threat. Hospitals and other information technology services are increasingly being targeted by these kinds of crimes. Since 2016, according to a cyber-threat assessment, there have been 172 attacks on individual health care organizations with costs topping $160 million. Those are just the attacks that are known about. It causes one to wonder how many attacks have not even been discovered yet.

It gets worse. Despite the multiple data breaches, the protection on critical infrastructure plan has not been updated in this country since 2009, despite major technological advancements. I alluded earlier to the Manhattan project of data decryption and quantum computing, which we are seeing out of countries like China. They threaten to blow open all of our current encryption technologies. It shows us that the plan is even more critical.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:05 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I object to a number of the comments the member made at the beginning of his speech. He tried to give a false impression that the government has not been there for small businesses, which is really quite inaccurate.

We can see the many ways that this government, virtually from day one back in 2015, has recognized the importance of small businesses as the backbone of our economy through tax cuts. Today we continue to provide wage subsidies, rent subsidies and so forth during this very difficult time.

Having said all of that, my question is with respect to the bill. We recognize that it is going to allow for additional regulation. The member seems to be in opposition to the need for regulation. I am not 100% clear whether the Conservative Party recognizes that there is a need for government regulation to protect the interests of our businesses and consumers.

Could the member just provide his thoughts on whether the Conservative Party will be voting in favour of recommending the legislation to committee?

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Madam Speaker, the hon. member sort of reminds me of the character of Cam Brady in the movie The Campaign when he talks about small businesses being the backbone of our economy. They are, but the Liberal government does not seem to recognize that the policies it has put in place have really undermined small businesses. However, I will get to the question.

There a necessity for regulation, but we need to recognize that one-size-fits-all regulations, which are mostly targeted at large corporations while still applying to small businesses, really put small businesses at a significant disadvantage. We are not saying no to regulation. We are saying that we need to put exemptions in, and we need to look at what the consequences really are for small businesses and address their concerns.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:05 a.m.

Bloc

Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question.

This is for private businesses, and I understand that my colleague may have a problem with that.

However, during the pandemic we have seen that the federal government itself had problems verifying people's identity. In my riding, some people received the CERB under a name other than their own. These people were on social assistance. They were not entitled to the CERB, received it anyway and will have to repay it when they file their income tax return. That is a serious problem.

I would like to know whether my hon. colleague thinks that we could have applied the provisions of this bill to the federal government itself.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Madam Speaker, I appreciate what the member is saying. I have a story from my riding: A couple come to me who had used a third party tax service to apply for their CERB money. The tax service charged them $300 per CERB application, which is absolutely absurd when someone can just go to the CRA website and click a few buttons to access the money.

It just goes to show that sometimes when the government constructs something and does not think through all of the angles while trying to get the money out the door, there are people who will be hurt by that legislation. When I raised that to the government, its response was that it is not illegal. That is not acceptable.

I think absolutely that the government needs to be held accountable. We always need to do better. We as the opposition are always going to fight to make sure that the government does a better job for Canadians.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:10 a.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Madam Speaker, the member's comments are very enlightening. He talked a little bit about his concerns for small businesses and the red tape that would be associated with them. Can he discuss a little bit, in detail, the provisions in particular that he thinks would put too much of a burden on small businesses?

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Madam Speaker, there is a provision in the bill that says a small business has to designate a specific person responsible for maintaining these privacy databases. When we are talking about a small business with just a few employees, oftentimes a sole proprietor may be running the books, sales or the website, and they are now being told that they have to also be the designated privacy CO of their company. That is adding red tape for a small business. For a big business, it is not that big, as it probably already has those positions laid out.

Small businesses trying to maintain those databases and having the ability to keep all the data they are collecting, so as to be ready to comply with requests from the consumer and Privacy Commissioner to hand over the data at any time, creates a ton of paperwork for small businesses. We need to look at a better way to do this to ensure that we can protect the privacy of Canadians, but not put too many onerous requirements on small businesses.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB

Madam Speaker, my hon. friend mentioned the dynamics of rural Canada and the challenges it faces with access to something as simple as the Internet. These increase the challenges of small and medium-sized enterprises, whether it is a farmer trying to access the most up-to-date equipment for their farm operation and the increasing data requirements surrounding that, the local insurance companies the member mentioned, or the many other small and medium-sized businesses that exist across rural Canada. It is important that a rural lens is applied to something as important as this legislation.

I am wondering if my hon. friend would be able to provide further comments on the impact this would have on rural Canada.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Madam Speaker, it is already hard enough for rural Canadian business people to access the growing digital economy, as I alluded to in my speech when I spoke about the lack of access to high-speed Internet. The hon. member who asked the question is a farmer, and we know agriculture is undergoing a massive shift to data.

I do not think there is anything in this bill that would necessarily impact the farmers themselves, but when we are talking about relations between fertilizer companies, suppliers and transportation logistics, we could be talking about a number of new requirements. The farmers I know just want to farm. They do not want to haggle over data and be purveyors of data, so yes, we have to consider those challenges as well.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, the member did not answer the question regarding the Conservative Party's position on the legislation. I understand the member, as being part of the official opposition, has concerns. I can appreciate that.

I have two questions. One, do the Conservatives see amendments coming forward at second reading? Second, and most importantly, do Conservatives support this legislation ultimately going to second reading, or in other words, will they support it going to committee?

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for giving me a second opportunity to finally answer his question. We do have concerns about the bill, as I said. However, I think I can freely speak for our caucus and say we will be supporting this going to committee.

We will be looking at putting forward some common sense amendments to protect small businesses and ensure this is the best possible legislation. The fact is that it has been too many years since we have had an overhaul. A lot has changed in our society, and we do need to update this legislation.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB

Madam Speaker, I see in the legislation that there would be some exceptions to the consent of an individual's data and whether that information would be available to them, or if it would be in the public interest.

Who would make that determination? Is the bill clear on that determination and who would make it, and are there any concerns around that particular provision?

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Madam Speaker, that is a question we are going to be fighting to get the answer to at committee. When we are talking about public interest, it is not necessarily just for the government to decide what that public interest is.

At the same time, we need to ensure this is not blown open to any and all organizations that could be using and abusing this data in ways we cannot know. Obviously we need to put some parameters around this and find a good balance.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:15 a.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Madam Speaker, I am honoured to be the first in my party to speak, since this is a topic the Bloc Québécois has been looking at in response to a number of identity theft issues.

I want to take this opportunity to acknowledge my colleagues who have been with me from the beginning of the first session of the 43rd Parliament. We immediately started looking into the matter of privacy breaches and fraud. The Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology unanimously agreed to take into account the previous work done to study what action we should urgently take to prevent the kind of situation we are in now.

I salute my colleagues on the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, and I also want to point out that I very much look forward to studying this bill in committee. We had already unanimously adopted a motion to study privacy matters, and today a bill has been introduced. We spent a long time in committee looking into conflicts of interest. I had 40 hours, during which it was difficult to vote on a motion in committee.

That being said, prorogation did not do us any good. If Parliament had not been prorogued, we would not be where we are today. We would already be at the forefront when it comes to protecting our people from fraud and identity theft. I know that this happened to some people who work for the House of Commons. This is a complex and troubling issue. As the Privacy Commissioner said, the accounts of no less than 30 million out of 37 million Canadians were affected.

I would like to tell everyone here and the people watching us at home that their personal information was used. We are talking about a privacy breach. What happens when our personal information is not protected? Obviously, the first thing that comes to mind is the possibility of fraud. The way things stand, fraudsters have quite the opportunity to use the personal information of others.

Madam Speaker, I am sorry. This is my first time without a written speech in front of me and I feel like I could keep talking for an hour. I would like to ask for the consent of the House to share my time with the member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:15 a.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

This being a hybrid sitting of the House, for the sake of clarity, I will only ask for those who are opposed to the request to express their disagreement. Accordingly, all those opposed to what the hon. member is proposing, namely, sharing her time with the member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, will please say nay.

The House has heard the terms of the motion. All those opposed to the motion will please say nay.

There being no dissenting voice, I declare the motion carried.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:20 a.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

I provided a brief overview of this issue because safeguards have already been implemented in over 30 countries. Our friends in the European Union have been taking the bull by the horns since 2016, and I think we should follow their example.

I applaud the introduction of this bill. It was about time. I would also like to talk about a few things that I look forward to studying as soon as possible at the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics.

It was proposed that the commissioner be given additional powers. This bill proves that this proposal was taken into account. The commissioner will be able to impose major penalties. Currently, as all those who grabbed the bull by the horns know full well, businesses are responsible for protecting personal information or face penalties, which vary from one country to another. This bill introduces a 3% penalty, which means businesses such as Facebook, a company worth several billions, could pay up to $10 million if they do not properly protect personal information.

I am also very happy with another part of this bill, which came up earlier, about consent to use and transfer our data. Businesses and organizations that have our data must always have our consent. That is crucial, and I am happy about it.

Once again, I congratulate the government on giving the commissioner the power to issue orders.

However, there is one thing I am very concerned about, and it has to do with organizations such as banks that are under federal jurisdiction. I think that if there is one organization that should lead by example and demonstrate that it is protecting data and working to prevent fraud, it should be the government.

The first time I read the bill, I did not see anything about the government fulfilling its obligations. My hon. colleague talked about this earlier. Many people in Laurentides—Labelle have told me they are worried about finding out at tax time that someone claimed CERB using their name. People have even told me they tested it. They applied, and their application was approved. These are people who are receiving employment insurance benefits.

There are also those who, upon opening their account, discovered that they were victims of fraud. These people have followed up and filed a complaint. Unfortunately, it takes a long time for them to hear back, and some people never hear back. I feel that this bill should also include a requirement to support those who have been victims of fraud and help them through the process.

Right now, it is about prevention and punishment. Let me explain prevention, which is very simple. Prevention is making sure all the necessary elements are in place to validate a person's identity.

However, this bill does not propose a complete reform of the ID authentication processes for individuals through organizations or the government.

Several countries have already taken action and instituted two ID authentication processes. The first involves confirming what the person knows. However, if an individual's personal information is known and their data are open, anyone can immediately commit fraud using their name.

The second involves confirming what the person has using various tools. Some apps already use text message authentication, for example. Sometimes the person has to place a call from their home. This is another important authentication process.

Several countries use other authentication processes based on even more personal information, such as voice recognition or fingerprints. Close attention will have to be paid to facial authentication to ensure that all rules are followed.

I look forward to taking part in the committee deliberations. I welcome this bill, but it needs to be amended properly.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:25 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, just listening to the member's comments on the bill, I suspect the Bloc will be supporting the legislation at least going to committee. It is important for us to recognize the role of the Privacy Commissioner and that it has been incorporated to provide additional support. It will provide more confidence in cybersecurity and show how important data is.

Could the member provide a confirmation of the Bloc's position on seeing the bill go to committee? Does the member have anything else she would like to talk about in regard to the important role the Privacy Commissioner plays in general for Canadians and small businesses?

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2020Government Orders

11:25 a.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

The Bloc Québécois is obviously in favour of a bill to protect the fundamental rights of Quebeckers and Canadians.

That said, it is important that several proposals be presented in committee. While we are at it, we will ensure that nothing is missing. That will surprise no one. Although the commissioner may be very pleased to hear that penalties can be imposed, he is also very aware of what might be missing from this bill.

With respect to personal information, we really have a lot of ground to cover quickly, because Canada is lagging behind in the eyes of the international community. We will have to make quick adjustments to protect our fundamental rights, as 30-plus other countries around the world have done.