Debates of Nov. 24th, 2020

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, it is important to note that an interim report is due at the end of December, but the final report is not due until March. Mr. Surette has been working on this for a while now. He has already had a number of meetings with commercial harvesters and with stakeholders. We have regular updates from him. I know that it is important that we get an interim report from him in December, and he is going to continue to do the work he needs to do in order for us to move this forward.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue]

Madam Chair, it is great to see you again as we continue our conversation this evening. I will be sharing my time with the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands. I hope to speak for eight minutes or so because I have a question or two for the minister.

I am rising with a bit of nostalgia. It will be great to chat with my hon. colleague, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, as someone who now represents a very urban riding in Vaughan—Woodbridge but who grew up in a small town in northern British Columbia called Prince Rupert, and who still has family there and whose parents immigrated to Canada. My mother and her four or five sisters all, at one point in their lives, worked at a cannery, whether it was B.C. Packers or J.S. McMillan Fisheries or the co-op fisheries. Prince Rupert is known as the capital of halibut, as one sees when one drives into the town.

I have very many fond memories. I actually worked at a cannery growing up, and on the weekends my family would go out for a picnic along the Skeena River and go fishing for chum, sockeye, spring salmon or coho, and sometimes trout. It would be a very fascinating time.

I would like to echo some of the things that the minister has spoken about today, and let Canadians know about some of the great work that is being done at Fisheries and Oceans under the minister and this government.

Canadians know that climate change is real and we are witnessing impacts that are directly affecting Canadians and our coastal communities. With the longest coastline in the world, our oceans are home to diverse ecosystems that support not only marine life but Canadians across the country who depend on it. With warming temperatures, we are seeing warming waters and ocean acidification, which is leading to less oxygen in our waters.

These changes are threatening the health of the species that live in our waters, including our fisheries, which not only contribute to ocean biodiversity but to our ocean economy. Canada's commercial sea and freshwater fish landings is, on average, over $3.7 billion a year. Catches from our waters end up on dinner tables and in restaurants all across the country and, yes, around the world.

Supporting ocean biodiversity is helping to also support our economy. This is why it is imperative that we continue to invest in ocean protection and work with the provinces and territories with a renewed focus on collaboration to conserve this important resource. This is exactly what our government has been doing from coast to coast to coast. This minister is working with provinces and territories to ensure that our fisheries and oceans remain protected and healthy.

I want to first speak to the capacity building at DFO, undertaken by this government after being elected by Canadians, following the major and devastating cuts brought forth by the Conservative Party. When the Conservatives were in power, it was their mission to weaken science, to ignore science and to remove protections from our oceans and fisheries. They believed that by slashing science, this would help with project development.

On this side of the aisle, Liberals believe that we can still put in place strong protections and support industry development. An example of this is the Fisheries Act. In 2018, our government introduced Bill C-68 to modernize the Fisheries Act and restore lost protections to fish and fish habitat after the Conservative government gutted the act. Even more shameful, the Conservatives did this under the omnibus budget bill so that they could force changes through without due consideration from elected parliamentarians. It was so bad that four former fisheries ministers opposed the changes, two of whom were, notably, Conservatives.

Let me quote former Conservative minister, the Hon. Tom Siddon, who said:

The real scary part of this is that the one minister in Canada who has the constitutional duty to protect the fishery...is the Fisheries Minister. These amendments essentially parcel out and water down his fiduciary responsibility, to the point that...he can delegate his responsibility to private-sector interests and individuals....

He also said, “it’s appalling that they should be attempting to do this under the radar.”

However, I am proud to say that, in the last year, our government passed the renewed Fisheries Act that restored lost protections that were previously stripped by the Conservatives, and modernized it to include important inshore owner-operator policies, fish-stocking rebuilding provisions and more certainty for industry.

Not only is the Fisheries Act strengthened when it comes to fish protection, but there is a clear permitting framework for development projects to ensure that industries have the regulations they need to move forward when it comes to large and small projects.

I would also like to add that our Liberal government introduced further amendments to Bill C-68 last year, which included a ban on keeping whales in captivity and a ban on shark finning. Both these issues had previously been identified as individual private member's bills that the Conservatives were trying to block. Following royal assent, Canada became the first G7 country to ban shark finning, and that is something that Canadians should be proud of.

On top of making important changes to legislation, our government has been making investments and taking action to build science capacity at DFO. Most Canadians will remember that the former Conservative government made $100 million in cuts to DFO, eliminated 500 jobs, and muzzled scientists. In fact, it even closed seven of DFO's 11 libraries, which contain world-class research, and attempted to close down the Experimental Lakes Area, a facility that boosts leading scientific research regarding freshwater systems.

Since 2016, our government has hired almost 300 new science staff, and between 2016 and 2021, this government will have invested over $500 million in marine and freshwater science.

This is real progress. It is without a doubt that science underpins decision-making at DFO. Investments in science are important in ensuring that we have the information we need to protect our fish stocks, our coastal areas and our marine ecosystems. That is precisely why this Liberal government has made investments in science, not just at DFO, but across departments, a priority.

I also want to touch quickly on marine conservation. Protecting our oceans is important. It not only ensures that we are conserving ecologically significant areas to maintain biodiversity, but supporting marine conservation also means helping keep our fisheries healthy, which supports many of our coastal communities. It is in everyone's interest that we find ways to work with communities to protect our oceans.

Over the last five years under a Liberal government, Canada has protected almost 14% of our marine coastal areas, up from just under 1% under the former Conservative government. Indeed, this is something that Canadians should all be proud of.

I do wish to ask the Minister of Fisheries a question, going back to the province I was raised in. The Department of Fisheries and Oceans invested heavily to support the migration and improve Pacific salmon stocks. How much has been invested to support British Columbia salmon restoration and innovation? How is this improving Pacific salmon?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries]

Mr. Chair, I want to thank my hon. colleague for his intervention and his speech. It was very good.

I will say our government has invested significantly in not only the B.C. salmon program, which we run in collaboration with the Province of British Columbia to restore habitat, but also the Big Bar landslide. This has been a significant investment for our government.

The landslide, which happened in July of last year, actually blocked the Fraser River salmon. We needed to make sure we did everything possible to address those concerns. Over $20 million has been invested to date to try to make sure that we see those stocks returning in the Fraser River.

We are going to continue to work in collaboration with first nations and the province to make sure that we are addressing the habitat restoration that needs to be done in coastal British Columbia. We know that is an integral part of making sure that we rebuild the salmon stocks. We are going to work with the provinces to make sure we do that.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Mr. Chair, we know that gillnets are the most widely used and implemented salmon harvesting tool on the Fraser River both by first nations and commercial harvesters. Salmon stocks are of concern and sturgeon are incidentally encountered in gillnets targeting more abundant species. What is this government doing to help this species?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, in 2019, the department implemented a substantial new fishery closure in southern British Columbia. This measure included a 42-day closure for all commercial nets, including gillnets, and a 27-day closure for the first nations food, social and ceremonial fisheries, including gillnets within the Fraser River. These decisions were taken as a precautionary approach, given the uncertain information. We were informed by consultations with all interested parties.

We know a lot more needs to be done to protect our wild Pacific salmon. We are going to continue to do that hard work to ensure we protect this stock.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Chair, I thank my hon. colleague for splitting his time with me. I also want to make note and thank a previous speaker, the member for Sydney—Victoria. Wela'lin. For people staying up late to watch the main estimates on fisheries, it was an important historical, personal and very relevant step toward reconciliation to understand who Donald Marshall Jr. really was.

I will ask the hon. member a number of questions. They are in the context of my extreme level of panic that Pacific wild salmon are in collapse and that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans does not seem to understand the level of urgency around a multifaceted and multi-layered crisis.

I will focus with my bit of time on some very specific questions.

Based on advice that the fisheries and oceans committee heard before prorogation, the only thing to do with the Big Bar slide to help the salmon in the Fraser River is to get a fish ladder in place. Has the Department of Fisheries and Oceans commissioned and contracted for the engineering and construction of a fish ladder as a permanent solution on the Big Bar slide?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, with regard to the Big Bar landslide, we have made significant progress but know that more has to be done. We are currently in the process of building a natural fish passageway. That is one of the things that has to be done to make sure we address the concerns in the Fraser River with regard to the slide.

We have been taking a multi-level government approach to this. We have the province behind us, we have worked with indigenous communities in the area and we are going to continue to do everything we possibly can to address this concern.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Chair, I take it the answer, then, is no. I would urge the minister to look at the testimony we had before the fisheries and oceans committee specifically from first nations leadership that the only solution, and it is going to be expensive, is a permanent solution with engineering and building a fish ladder. It must done.

I want to move to the issue of recommendation 19 of the Cohen Commission and the Discovery Islands. The minister and I exchanged concerns about this issue during question period some months ago. I am desperately concerned that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans constructed its review of the threat to wild salmon from the fish farms specifically excluding the parasitic effect of the sea lice that escape and affect wild salmon. It did not take those into consideration. Within the minister's own department, Dr. Kristi Miller has done important work on this, which appears to have been excluded from consideration.

Why is it that we have not taken action, as the Cohen Commission recommended, to protect our wild salmon?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, first of all, I would like to clarify for my hon. colleague that we actually have contracted for the Big Bar ladder. That is the natural fish passageway. I want to clarify that it has been contracted. We are working on that. We know it is an important part of making sure the salmon are able to traverse the river.

With regard to the Discovery Islands, protecting the wild Pacific salmon is a priority for us, and we recognize the first nations' historic cultural connection to wild salmon. Our government manages risk from sea lice using a science-based adaptive management approach. This spring, in consultation with our partners, my department revised the licences of marine aquaculture finfish operators in British Columbia to increase the enforceability of licence conditions pertaining to the management of sea lice. That is a step we are taking to address the concerns around sea lice.

With regard to the Discovery Islands specifically and the Cohen Commission, one of the things we heard loud and clear from the first nations in those areas was that we could not make a unilateral decision on the fish farms. They are in their territorial waters, and they wanted to have a say. They knew it was important we make the decision, but they wanted to make sure they were—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We have to leave enough time for one more quick question.

The hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

With respect, Mr. Chair, the department had plenty of time to consult between the Cohen Commission report and when we did not take those recommendations.

To the southern resident killer whales, I have had other discussions with the department about the sanctuary areas on Pender Island and Saturna Island. Not a single fine has been levied. No one who has violated the sanctuary for the whales has faced any punishment.

Can the minister commit to a much better and more robust protection of our southern resident killer whales?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, absolutely, we are committed to making sure we protect this iconic species. We are taking a number of measures to address the concerns that we hear with regard to the southern resident killer whales. We are going to continue to work with stakeholders and environmental organizations to make sure that we are addressing concerns.

This is an iconic species that nobody wants to become extinct. We are going to do everything we can to make sure that we protect it.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, I will be splitting my time with the member for Courtenay—Alberni. I have about 10 minutes of questions for the minister and afterward, my hon. colleague will take the remaining five minutes to round out the evening.

I would like to start by acknowledging the member for Vaughan—Woodbridge, who began his remarks talking about Prince Rupert and his roots in that beautiful community. That is where I would like to start my remarks as well.

I was speaking yesterday with Joy Thorkelson with the fishermen's union and told her that I had this opportunity this evening. She was talking to me about the report on the west coast fisheries licence reform, with which I know the minister is very familiar. Ms. Thorkelson feels that the recommendations in this report hold a lot of promise for her industry. She understands that there are consultations going on at this point, but she does not know anyone who has been consulted.

I would like to ask the minister who precisely is being consulted at this time on the west coast fisheries licence reform report and whether anyone on the north coast of British Columbia is being consulted.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries]

Mr. Chair, I want to thank the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans for this report. This was an extremely important report with regard to west coast licensing. We are working to engage stakeholders in British Columbia to identify priority fisheries management and licensing concerns. I do not have the list in front of me with regard to who is being consulted, but I can follow up with the member directly to make sure he has that.

We need to inform ongoing west coast licensing review. We have actually contracted a comparative analysis of Atlantic and Pacific commercial fishing policies and regulations and we have initiated a review of the existing foreign ownership restrictions as well. We know that there is a lot of work to be done. We do appreciate the hard work of the committee in bringing this forward.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, the reason these recommendations are so important, and I believe the minister will agree, is that it is vitally important that we keep as much of the value of the west coast catch in the hands of actual fishermen, especially after two of the worst seasons on record.

Can the minister give us some sense of whether her department is committed to implementing the 20 recommendations from the report on west coast fisheries licence reform?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, as I have said, this is a very important report. We are actually engaging right now on a number of the recommendations to make sure we are well informed, as we go forward, to make the decisions. We have contracted an analysis to be done between Atlantic and Pacific commercial fishing policies and regulations. We know how important this is to our coastal communities in British Columbia, and that is why we are taking the time to make sure we do the consultations necessary to get it right.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, could the minister inform the House what the timeline is for implementing the recommendations in the report?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, as I have said, right now we are engaging in the consultations. This will take a bit of time. I do not have a firm timeline in front of me right now, but we know it is important to make sure we hear from a number of stakeholders on this issue—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The hon. member.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, funding for west coast salmon stock assessment has been falling since the 1980s. Of course, it was the worst under the former Stephen Harper government, but despite the recommendations from former Liberal fisheries ministers, those funding levels have still not been restored to the levels they need to be.

Stock assessment is particularly important in light of climate change, which, as the minister well knows, is causing a number of impacts on wild salmon on the west coast. The runs are not as consistent as they used to be. We used to have people walking hundreds and hundreds of streams on the west coast to assess stocks. We do not anymore, and we need that information to make good fisheries decisions.

Can the minister tell us if she plans to follow through on the promises of previous Liberal fisheries ministers and restore stock assessment funding?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, under the modernized Fisheries Act, it is imperative for us to have rebuilding plans in place for stocks. We are diligently working on those now, especially for critical stocks that are under threat. We have initiated a number of rebuilding plans. There is more to be done, but we are going to continue this extremely important work.

For me, this is not about conserving a species; it is about growing it. We need to have abundance in our fisheries, and that is one of the things I am committed to.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, the focus of that last question was really around whether the stock assessment funding was going to be restored. I did not hear a specific answer to that question, but I look forward to engaging with the minister in the future.

One of the things I hear when I talk to people in the Skeena watershed about wild salmon is that community consultation and community engagement by DFO are sorely lacking. The department's consultations focus on dealing with specific stakeholders and first nations, but as we know wild salmon affect all of our communities in the northwest. In some cases, NGOs are taking up this role, but it should be DFO's job to engage communities in these vital decisions.

Does the minister recognize that the current approach to public engagement is deficient? Will she commit to resourcing and carrying out broader community engagement in northwest B.C., particularly with upriver communities that depend on wild salmon?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, it is extremely important that communities feel like they are part of the engagement process. That is something we have seen in British Columbia particularly: how engaged the local communities are with regard to habitat restoration. We have seen that through the B.C. SRIF program.

We will continue to work to make sure that we are addressing the concerns around communities that are impacted by the decline of the salmon stocks. I know first-hand how important it is to hear from communities, and I will endeavour to make sure those communities are heard.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, in the Skeena watershed, as the minister may know, DFO has long practised abundance-based management for sockeye salmon. They set minimum spawning escapements and they also set thresholds at which different fisheries are triggered. There is a growing call in the region for DFO to develop similar abundance-based management measures for other species, particularly for chinook salmon. The uncertainty created by climate change means that we need better in-season management tools.

Is the minister aware of calls for this kind of abundance-based management for other species, especially chinook, and does she support moving in this direction?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, as I have said a number of times tonight, the steep declines we have seen in wild Pacific salmon are extremely alarming. We are looking at a number of different measures to put in place to make sure that we are addressing those concerns and that we are building abundance. As I said earlier, it is not just about conserving. It is about growing. That has to be critical as we move forward. I will continue to work with stakeholders, communities and fishers to make sure we are finding the right ways forward with regard to wild Pacific salmon.

I have learned a great deal about Pacific salmon since taking on this role. I know it is a huge part of the cultural identity of British Columbia, and we need to do everything we can to protect it and conserve it.