House of Commons Hansard #44 of the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was pandemic.

Topics

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

Bloc

Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Madam Speaker, I would like to ask my colleague a question.

Instead of the deregulation this motion proposes, why not ask the government to do sector-based investing? For example, it could invest in the aerospace sector, which provides 40,000 direct jobs and 100,000 indirect jobs in Quebec. We are still waiting. The Americans have already invested in aerospace. The French invested $15 billion euros in it. Why not ask the Government of Canada to invest in aerospace? My riding, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, is home to two companies, Héroux-Devtek and Pratt & Whitney, both of which are waiting for a signal from the government to move their projects forward.

I would like to hear my colleague's thoughts on that.

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Longueuil—Saint-Hubert for his comments.

Millions of Canadians and Canadian businesses have been abandoned. The government is currently preparing to increase taxes at the expense of many of these companies, while some businesses that are key to the Canadian economy are still waiting for a clear signal from the government. We need to reduce red tape and taxes so that the programs are effective and give businesses the results they were designed to achieve.

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Madam Speaker, in this motion there are many good things, but the Conservatives have to put in their poison pill, where they continue their attack and predatory approach on seniors' and workers' benefits and retirement security. We have watched seniors struggle to pay their bills and not make ends meet throughout this crisis. Conservatives continue to look at these investments as taxes. They are not taxes. These are investments in workers' retirement security.

When will the Conservatives stop their attack on workers' pensions? This is not a time to cut back. We heard from the PBO that CPP is vulnerable and that these strategic investments are needed. This is not a time for the Conservatives to prey on a crisis like this that is going to impact seniors and retirement security in the future.

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

I totally disagree with what the member just said, Madam Speaker. He is totally wrong. We are not attacking seniors or any pension plan.

We are simply asking that the government postpone the increase of the Canada pension plan payroll taxes.

That is only what we are asking for and we are asking for it to help enterprises get through this pandemic crisis.

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Central Nova Nova Scotia

Liberal

Sean Fraser LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance and to the Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure, as always, to take part in debates on the floor of the House of Commons, despite it being virtual as it has been for the last number of months.

The motion on the floor deals with various planned supports for small businesses. I did want to take a moment before I address the substance of the motion to more broadly address the importance of supporting small business, particularly during this unprecedented economic crisis.

The pandemic that is tied to COVID-19 has changed everything about the way that we live. It has changed the way we work. It has changed the way we socialize. It has caused us to give up many of the comforts we have for so long taken for granted.

Over the course of this pandemic, we realized very quickly that it was not just a public health emergency, but it posed an extraordinary threat to the well-being of our nation's economy, as well. Upon realizing the magnitude of this potential economic shock, our government quickly moved to establish emergency supports for households and businesses to ensure that we could mitigate against the seriousness of the economic consequences that would follow the pandemic, but also to ensure that we could set the stage for future growth.

We developed this plan by doing the simple thing: listening. We spoke to stakeholders who represent small businesses, medium-sized businesses and big businesses. I remember being on the phone through the night in the spring understanding what small businesses needed to survive so they could help contribute to the recovery on the back end of this pandemic.

Over the course of taking in this feedback and through consultation with experts, we have developed a plan. We realize that the first step to our plan has to be to keep Canadians safe and to defeat the virus. We know the most important policy, in terms of protecting our economy, is to protect the health and well-being of Canadians. We will not see an economic recovery until we have defeated this virus.

The second pillar of our plan is to ensure that while we work to defeat the virus, we extend emergency supports to households and businesses so they can weather the storm and make sure that on the back end of this pandemic, they are positioned well to help bounce back and contribute to the nation's recovery.

The final pillar of our plan, which was alluded to in the recent fall economic statement, is going to be to make certain important and tranformative investments that are going to set the stage for long-term economic growth. The motion on the floor pertains to support for business, so I will focus my comments there.

It is important to keep in mind that more than $8 out of every $10 spent in response to COVID-19 has come from our government. We have worked with provinces, communities and different associations, but the reality is that we made the decision early on that the cost of inaction was too great and the federal government would be there to support households and businesses, and to make the investments necessary to help defeat the virus.

In particular, I want to draw the House's attention to certain business supports we have advanced over the past number of months. First and foremost, the Canada emergency wage subsidy is a program we developed after listening to businesses. They said the cost of keeping their employees on the payroll is too great and if they do not have support, we will have millions of Canadian workers without jobs.

We moved quickly, initially with a smaller version of the wage subsidy. When we heard that it needed to be increased, that is precisely what we did. We established a program that is covering up to 75% of the cost of wages for employees in Canada. This is keeping nearly four million workers on the payroll to date. This is important not only for providing the income support to those workers in the short term, but for maintaining that connection between the worker and their job so that when conditions allow, those workers cannot just be on the payroll, but can actually be on the shop floor so they can help boost the productivity of their employer and hopefully help them survive this pandemic.

In addition to the Canada emergency wage subsidy, we have put forward the Canada emergency business account. This is a small-business, interest-free, government-backed loan program that initially provided $40,000 to small businesses and $10,000 of that $40,000 was forgivable if certain conditions were met, including paying it back on a particular schedule.

In the fall economic statement, we improved that policy. Not only did we expand its eligibility over time, but we took steps to make sure it became more generous. We added an additional $20,000 to that loan program, $10,000 of which is forgivable as well. This means that small businesses across Canada have access to $60,000 in support, $20,000 of which is forgivable.

This program was designed to help businesses do simple things such as pay their utility bills and literally keep the lights on so their employees, who might be benefiting from the wage subsidy, can actually have a place to come back to work. This particular program has now reached approximately 800,000 businesses across Canada and is supporting millions of Canadians in terms of keeping them employed throughout this time of unprecedented economic uncertainty.

However, we did not stop with those two programs. We have also advanced the new Canada emergency rent subsidy and a new piece of legislation. This program is essential because we heard, loud and clear, from businesses that they needed support, not only for their employees' wages, not just for the fixed costs of running a business, but also specifically for their rent. This commercial rent subsidy program is actually able to provide up to 65% of the cost of rent for businesses that have experienced a drop in revenue.

For those who have actually been shut down as a result of a public health order in order to keep our community members safe, we have created additional lockdown support, which means the federal government will cover up to 90% of the rent for businesses that have been shut down in order to protect public health. This may sound expensive, but it is the right thing to do because it has a public health outcome and also provides the emergency support to businesses to make it easier and more economically viable for them to do the right thing for our population's health.

We realize that there are certain businesses that may not have been covered by some of these programs, so we established the regional relief and recovery fund, which mirrors the emergency business account and provides support to businesses that may not otherwise meet some of the eligibility criteria. We invested in programs to extend liquidity support across the economy to ensure that the steady flow of cash would prevent massive deflation, leading to potential job losses and business shutdowns. These programs are taking hold.

However, it is not just the programs that have directly supported business. I did not even mention the many deferrals or remittance delays that we have allowed, to the tune of $85 billion, to help businesses keep cash in their accounts rather than giving it to the government. It is important that we also draw attention to the personal income support through the Canada emergency response benefit, or CERB, which was designed to help Canadians who lost income as a result of this pandemic.

This program in particular has helped over nine million Canadian households keep food on the table and a roof over their heads. I bring it up in the context of supports for business, which this motion is geared towards, because it actually filled a gap for a lot of self-employed Canadians who did not have access to ordinary EI programs. When they lost income as a result of their business and they needed support, CERB was there for them, whether they were self-employed or not, to help ensure that they could continue to meet the costs of living despite the uncertainty that this pandemic has injected into their lives and throughout the economy.

I want to spend a few minutes on the importance of our health response to the success of businesses, both in the short term and the long term. We know in the long term that this pandemic will end with a vaccine. I was thrilled to see the announcement today that Canada expects, very soon, the first doses to arrive in Canada. As soon as next week, 249,000 doses of the Pfizer vaccine will arrive.

I would like to draw the House's attention to the portfolio of vaccines that we have procured. It is the most robust portfolio in the entire world, with more doses per capita than any other country. By casting a wide net, we improved our chances of having access to those vaccines that were to be approved first. Now that the Pfizer vaccine appears to be on the eve of arrival, we can also point to three other candidates that are in the regulatory process and should be approved, assuming Health Canada says it is safe, for rollout in Canada before too long.

The reality is we have been working with provinces and the Canadian Armed Forces to develop a distribution plan for these vaccines. This plan will ensure our population becomes inoculated as quickly as possible, so that Canadians can return to the new version of normal and continue to help businesses succeed on their own, rather than rely on these emergency supports over the course of the pandemic.

It is not just the vaccines that we have invested in to help keep Canadians safe. Through the safe restart agreement with the provinces, we have now injected nearly $20 billion on things like testing and contact tracing. We have rolled out 5 million rapid tests throughout the country, in the provinces, to help ensure that they could be deployed in a way that would protect communities.

The reality is, if it still unsafe to go out and eat in restaurants, visit a movie theatre, go to a sporting event or a local show at the theatre, these are the kinds of things that will help the economy rebound more quickly. Until Canadians feel that it is safe to actually be out in their communities, we cannot expect the rebound to reach its full potential. That is why we are making these investments, and they are taking hold in provinces across Canada.

If anyone wants an international comparator, over 80% of the jobs that were lost during the depths of this pandemic have in fact now returned in Canada, compared to a little more than half in the United States. The recent jobs report from Statistics Canada shows that in my home province of Nova Scotia, the last month has seen 10,000 new jobs created and our unemployment today is even better than it was a year ago.

That is due in part because of the responsible measures put in place by our local governments, and the public buy-in we have seen across this province to help keep one another safe, but we cannot take it for granted. If we want to expect to continue to see this kind of rebound, we are going to need to continue to follow public health advice and ensure businesses and people are supported when it is not safe to be out in our communities.

I want to direct people's attention to a few elements of the motion I find are problematic. First, although this is perhaps a smaller point, the Conservatives have demanded more information about our new credit program for highly affected sectors. This new program is going to provide loans of up to $1 million. These loans are to be 100% government backed and have lower than market interest rates. They will ensure the hardest-hit sectors, which would otherwise be viable but for this pandemic, are able to have access to the supports they need so they are still here on the back end of COVID-19.

The design work of this program is ongoing, and we are going to continue to consult with stakeholders, in particular the tourism and hospitality sectors, to make sure we get this program right. The motion puts a drop-dead deadline of I believe nine days from now to divulge the details of the program. I respectfully suggest we would be well served to continue our consultation with the stakeholders in those hardest hit sectors before we roll out details to ensure the program actually achieves its intended outcome and serves those who have been hardest hit.

The motion also draws attention to a financing program for large employers. We are always open to suggestions on how these programs can be enhanced, but with respect, this program is supporting thousands upon thousands of Canadians. It is helping their employers who, again, would otherwise be viable but for this pandemic, and is keeping them employed throughout this. The program was intended to be a last resort for businesses that have been looking for access to liquidity elsewhere and have been unable to find it. It is, in fact, keeping Canadians employed in real communities across our country today.

There are two shortcomings with this motion that are particularly important. The Conservatives have suggested that instead of continuing to put forward programs that support businesses directly during this time of emergency, what we should do is pause the increase to Canada pension plan premiums and do away with our price on pollution. I will deal with each of these in turn.

With respect to the Canada pension plan, I find it shocking the Conservatives' position is that we should finance the small business supports by denying access to a secure retirement for Canadian seniors. This is not the first time they made the suggestion that we not continue to properly fund the Canada pension plan. The reality is we can afford in Canada to dignify a retirement for our seniors by improving and investing in the Canada pension plan and support businesses at the same time. That is precisely what we have been planning to do.

We will not rob the retirement fund for Canadian seniors in order to fund support programs for Canadian businesses. We can do both. We can chew gum and walk at the same time. The reality is businesses need our support, but it should not come at the cost of the secure pensions of Canadian seniors.

The second fault I want to draw attention to will come as no surprise to those who were elected in the previous Parliament and who have seen me rise to my feet literally hundreds of times to defend our government's plan to put a price on pollution. This is perhaps the most important policy we have advanced, and which many countries in the world have advanced, in order to fight climate change.

The reality is this is not a cost we should be looking at because the program has been designed in a way that polluters pay and households benefit. I could go down the list of notable Conservatives who have defended this approach to fight climate change before, but because it is politically unpopular for some of our members of the House of Commons, they seem unwilling to even acknowledge the fact eight out of 10 Canadian households receive more through the climate action incentive than they would actually experience in an increased cost of living.

This is good policy that is going to help continue to reduce emissions in Canada so we can fight climate change. This, by the way, will not only help protect our economic interests and health outcomes in the long term, but it will also ensure households continue to receive more money in the climate action incentive than they are putting out as a result of any increased cost due to our price on pollution. The reality is we should not be taking money from households in this way in order to continue to support businesses. We can support households and businesses at the same time. This is not a zero-sum game. It is the right thing to do.

I would like to draw attention to some of the comments that were made by the hon. member for Carleton during his opening remarks. I found it surprising that he did not seem to draw his comments from the motion on the floor, nor did he seem to acknowledge that there is a global pandemic on the go.

The reality is, looking at the world that we live in today, if the hon. member wants to argue that we should be moving toward a paycheque economy, the very first thing he should do is realize that the paycheques have been interrupted for millions of Canadians, not because of decisions taken by the government, but because of the COVID-19 global pandemic. For public health reasons, provinces and, to some extent, the federal government have decided that the safe thing to do is to shut down our economies or reduce certain kinds of activities in our communities in order to save lives.

As I mentioned earlier in my remarks, we would be remiss if we did not acknowledge that the economy cannot rebound when people are afraid to go out to shops and restaurants, when people will not be booking travel and when people are afraid to go out to stadiums or to cultural venues. We need to do everything we can and spare no expense to do whatever is necessary to defeat this virus as quickly as possible.

When I hear the opposition members dig in and continue to focus on how much money has been spent rather than the value that is being provided for that money, I am more and more confident that I am on the right side of this debate on the government side of the House. The reality is that the best thing we can do for our economy is to continue to fund the fight against COVID-19. The second best thing that we need to do is continue to extend emergency supports to households and businesses to ensure they can keep up with the cost of living and the cost of keeping their doors open so that they are still here on the back end of this pandemic.

I draw members' attention to the comments of Gita Gopinath, the chief economist of the IMF, who is on leave from Harvard University's department of economics. She has made the point that we need to continue to invest now. When we are dealing with economies that are in a potential prolonged liquidity trap and have a central bank that is at the lower effective bound of interest rates, by investing now we will serve our long-term interests. She has described this approach as not only being economically sound policy but also as the fiscally responsible thing to do.

One of the things that we need to realize is that there is a cost to all things. Chief among them is inaction. The cost of failing to make these investments and focusing only on regulatory reform and reduced taxes will be paid for in the cost of businesses that are shuttered and households who cannot actually pay their rent or afford groceries.

The costs will be paid, at the risk of overstating things, with the lives of our loved ones. These costs are too great to ignore. We need to do the right thing and the fiscally responsible thing and make the upfront investments now to preserve the long-term interests of our economy.

The Conservatives have said repeatedly that they do not support this kind of approach to the pandemic. The finance critic himself has said that these are big, fat government programs and that they do not support them because they are Conservatives. It is high time that all parties in this House park their desire to continue to defend an outdated economic ideology and, instead, defend the Canadian households and business owners who have been on the phone with constituency offices of members of Parliament from every party and from every region of this country.

Our approach is paying dividends. We are seeing the benefits extend to reach households. We are seeing the benefits reach business owners. For the reasons I have stated during my remarks, I will be voting against this motion. I would be pleased to take whatever questions members of this House may have for me.

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Madam Speaker, while I will not agree with much of what our hon. colleague said, I want to speak to him man to man, not MP to MP. We have seen 2017 wildfires, 2018 wildfires and catastrophic flooding. Tens of thousands of jobs in my riding and in our province of British Columbia have been lost due to the softwood lumber downturn and the failure of the government to secure a softwood lumber agreement. The investments are fleeing, not just our region and province, but our country, because of the policies of the current government.

I spoke with the member early on in this process about the owners of businesses such as C+ Rodeos ranch, Central Display & Tents, and Crossroads Brewing & Distillery. They were falling through the cracks of this funding and have still not received any of the funding. Therefore, when the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance talks about preloaded bank accounts, just whose preloaded bank accounts is she talking about?

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Madam Speaker, before I begin, I want to extend my sincere congratulations to my friend and colleague on the recent addition to his family, which all members of the House had the benefit of hearing about during a recent episode in the chamber.

To address his question, I will not apologize for government policies that have put money directly into the bank accounts of Canadians during an emergency and that have allowed them to weather this storm. He referred to the proposed economic strategy of the Conservatives, which he indicates would lead to some new-found investment. However, the reality is they have tried those strategies before and failed. If we look at the economic record during the Harper government's years, we realize it had the slowest growth rate since the Great Depression and $150 billion of debt. Conversely, before this pandemic, the investments we made had Canada reach its lowest ever rate of unemployment, and we had the healthiest fiscal position in the G7.

We are going to continue to support Canadians, both households and businesses, to make sure they can weather this storm and help kick-start the recovery once it is safe to do so.

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Madam Speaker, today we have heard the Conservatives bemoan big, fat government spending, and we have heard the Liberals talk about and tout all the investments they have made in people. However, the reality is that only about $100 billion has been invested in workers. Despite all the rhetoric in the House, what nobody is talking about is the $750 billion in the commercial purchase program that went straight to big banks and Bay Street.

I have a simple question for the hon. member. Why is it, and how can he reconcile, that $750 billion went to the wealthiest corporations while big banks are paying out dividends to their shareholders?

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Madam Speaker, for a simple question, I have a simple answer: That has not happened.

The reality is that the member is conflating two different concepts. There was direct support to households and businesses, with liquidity support. This has not provided public money directly to the banks, as he suggests, but has instead changed the rules. Sometimes this is done through the Bank of Canada or the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions, not through the government itself, to ensure that banks have the technical ability to extend money to Canadians in need.

For Canadians who may have benefited from a mortgage deferral, for example, some of the liquidity support that has been put in place has allowed the banks to do that. For Canadians who received, from their banks, support to help their businesses stay afloat, the liquidity support has helped banks do that. To suggest that the financial support provided directly to businesses and households is similar in any way, shape or form to a change in the rules that allowed our banking system to get money where it is most needed is simply false.

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Madam Speaker, according to Jonathon Gatehouse at the CBC, Kevin Page, at the University of Ottawa's Institute of Fiscal Studies and Democracy, “can hardly make sense of the recent 223-page fall economic update, saying an evening spent parsing its charts, graphs and verbiage left him feeling like he had a hangover.” As Page says, “It's impossible to read. I have done this for years and I can't even follow the money.” He wonders whether someone in government is trying to obscure the data and notes, “When we go out and tell people we can't follow the money, the trust is broken.”

The Parliamentary Budget Officer commented two weeks ago that “Parliamentarians...have no clear idea as to how much money is being spent.” The government is not even updating its fiscal accounts.

Why should Canadians trust the government when our independent institutions have told us we cannot trust you?

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I remind the member that he is to address his questions and comments directly to the Chair.

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Madam Speaker, the reality is that, from the outset of this pandemic, we have done our best to keep Canadians apprised, under emergency circumstances, of the nature of the government's spending. This involved special authorizations that were provided by Parliament to the government, and it involved biweekly updates to the finance committee through the finance minister. I was one of the individuals who provided the update to the committee on one occasion.

Since that time, we have continued to put forward, in Parliament, outlines of the spending decisions we have made, including the fall economic statement, to which the member has referred. I invite Canadians to read that document for themselves in detail, but if there is any misunderstanding of our strategy I will simplify it as follows: step one is to do everything we can to fight the disease and allow our communities to return to normal as quickly as possible; step two is to advance financial supports for households and businesses to allow them to weather this storm; and step three is to make the kinds of investments we need that will position Canada for long-term growth once this pandemic is a thing of the past.

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Madam Speaker, I have some concerns about the Conservatives' motion when it comes to postponing the increase in taxes and contributions.

However, with regard to the request for details about the assistance programs, does my colleague not agree that it is high time that the government provided that information since businesses are currently being forced to quickly change course and adopt recovery and COVID-19 testing plans?

That is having all sorts of consequences and companies need that information to operate properly.

Does my colleague not agree that it is high time that the government did what it said it was going to do?

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Madam Speaker, if I understand the question correctly, it is about providing details so that businesses can better understand what supports are there and how to access them.

With great respect, for the vast majority of our programs, not only are the details available, but the supports are operational today. Canadians can go to their banks or credit unions anywhere in Canada and access the Canada emergency business account. Although the details of the Canada emergency wage subsidy have changed over time in response to stakeholder feedback, it is a program Canadians can apply to now. It is the same thing with the new Canada emergency rent subsidy.

If the member is speaking specifically about programs such as the new credit availability program for hardest-hit businesses, there are some details to work out. Rather than prematurely disclosing what a program could look like, we wanted to continue our consultations with those hardest-hit sectors, in particular tourism and hospitality, to ensure that the program is a success from inception.

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I wonder if my colleague could give his perspective as to why it was important for the government to provide support through the CERB, which increased the disposable income for Canadians, and why it was equally important for us to invest in small businesses through the wage subsidy, with thousands of jobs saved as a direct result. Could he give us a quick explanation as to why these things were so important to our economy?

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Madam Speaker, I am reminded of 2008-09, during the global financial crisis, when we heard the phrase “too big to fail”. It was often used in reference to America's banking sector. We took the approach from day one that households and small businesses were too big to fail.

Our phones were ringing off the hook with real people in real communities living with real concerns. If the member's experience was anything like mine, he spoke to single parents who did not know how they were going to pay for groceries. He spoke to people who were on the verge of eviction. He spoke to small business owners who not only worried they were not going to be able to keep their business going, but worried about the well-being of their employees.

There has been a very human face to our government's response, and it is programs such as the CERB that have now helped nine million Canadian households keep food on the table. It is about programs such as the wage subsidy for business owners, who told us they would have had to lay off staff without access to a program to help them pay for wages. It has the federal government paying up to 75% of the wages for businesses across Canada that have had a drop in revenue. We should not let the remarkable nature of these programs be dismissed because they have been in effect for a number of months.

To answer the hon. member's question, the reason we created these programs is that people needed help and we wanted to provide help to them.

Opposition Motion—Measures to Support Canadian BusinessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:05 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Madam Speaker, first, I would like to inform you that I will be sharing my time with my colleague from Thérèse-De Blainville.

I would also like to welcome back one of my staffers, who is also a friend, Philippe Guertin, who had to take a few months off because of a somewhat difficult personal situation. I am so glad to have him back in the office today.

That said, I would like to indicate that the Bloc Québécois does not support the motion before us. We agree with the preamble of the motion. Businesses, particularly SMEs, are indeed suffering considerably from the repercussions of the pandemic, and it is the government's responsibility to bring in programs to help them get through this crisis and maintain jobs.

However, we believe that the government also has a duty to safeguard the public good. In that sense, eliminating or delaying any regulations, such as the carbon tax for example, would be detrimental to the public good. There are other, more effective ways to support our businesses in these troubled times.

Quebec businesses have been weakened by the pandemic, the drop in consumption and the health measures put in place. Our businesses have insisted, and even more so in the past eight months, that the most effective, simple and transparent way to help them would be to create a sector-specific assistance program that has measures to cover fixed costs.

Will the federal government finally take action to mitigate the financial impact of fixed costs on our Quebec businesses, especially in the tourism, culture and restaurant sectors? SMEs in those sectors are still finding it difficult to obtain the financing they need.

That is what came out of the September 30 poll of 7,000 SMEs by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, which also shows that 50% of Quebec businesses believe that it will be difficult to survive a second wave of restrictions. This poll shows us that 27% of SMEs would survive less than a year with their current level of revenue. Quebec SMEs are saying they they need an average of $25,000 to cover fixed costs just in December 2020. That is a lot.

Furthermore, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business' most recent survey of 4,200 businesses on October 28 illustrates quite clearly that we still have a long way to go to help businesses.

Allow me to share some statistics: 30% of Canadian businesses reported being partially open; just 24% of Canadian businesses reported making usual revenues for that time of year; 45% of businesses reported making up to half of their usual revenues for that time of year; 35% of Quebec businesses reported losing money for every day that they were open; between 23% and 25% of businesses in the hospitality and the arts and recreation sectors were actively considering bankruptcy; 10% of businesses reported needing the Canada emergency business account—which, I remind members, is a loan—but not being eligible; 11% of businesses reported needing the Canada emergency wage subsidy but not being eligible; 28% of businesses reported needing the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance program but not being eligible.

There are nearly 25,000 small and medium-sized businesses in Quebec, which represents 93% of private-sector jobs in Quebec. We are talking about 2.3 million workers whose contributions will help revive Quebec's economy and raise their families' quality of life. Would we risk losing half of that?

I remind members that SMEs are vital to Quebec's economy. The Government of Canada really failed in helping our SMEs pay their rent during the first wave, with the program that ended on September 30.

SMEs waited eight long months before getting appropriate rent assistance. I would also like to mention that the initial versions of the SME assistance programs were not really tailored to the reality of entrepreneurs. It took several months before the government started offering programs that would finally support a larger majority of businesses.

We are therefore asking for more flexibility. We feel that there is a little more flexibility and openness in the federal government's current assistance programs than in the initial versions of the programs. In fact, many of the changes made by the federal government meet the recommendations of the Bloc Québécois and, more importantly, the needs expressed by entrepreneurs themselves.

The most recent expansions of the assistance programs are leaving fewer and fewer businesses behind, but we need to go a step further, because the federal government's assistance programs do not take into account real-life situations, economic diversification and the specific realities of the regions, the hotel industry, cultural enterprises and summer camps. The entire tourism industry, a vital component of our economy, has been hard hit.

The Canada emergency business account must be made more flexible in order to give startups and entrepreneurs who do not have a business number or who have non-deferrable expenses access to the program.

There should also be retroactive assistance to cover fixed costs that were not covered by the first version of the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance program, in which, you might remember, the vast majority of landlords refused to participate at tenants' request. When will the government finally present to the House a real assistance program for fixed costs that meets the real needs of SMEs in Quebec, as the Quebec government already has?

Quebec is setting an example. Many of the stakeholders I have met with have praised Quebec's effective programs, namely the concerted temporary action program for businesses and the emergency assistance to small and medium-sized businesses program. These programs are administered by Investissement Québec.

Both of these programs were enhanced by the assistance to businesses in high alert regions component, which covers certain fixed costs paid out during the closure period. Fixed costs include municipal and school taxes, the portion of rent not covered by another government program, mortgage interest, public utilities such as electricity and gas, insurance, telecommunications costs, permits and association fees. Can the federal government do the same?

As I said at the beginning of my speech, it is up to the government to implement programs to help businesses survive this crisis and maintain jobs. However, we feel that the government is also responsible for protecting the public good. In this case, eliminating or postponing regulations, such as the carbon tax, would not be conducive to the public good. There are also a number of more effective means of supporting our businesses during this difficult period.

I will now take questions.

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

1:10 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, there have been discussions among the parties and if you seek it, I believe you would find unanimous consent to adopt the following motion. I move:

That, notwithstanding any Standing Order, special order or usual practice of the House, the deferred recorded division on the opposition motion standing in the name of the Member for Durham, currently scheduled at the expiry of the time provided for Oral Questions today, be further deferred to the conclusion of debate on motions relating to the Main Estimates later today.

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

This being a hybrid sitting of the House, for the sake of clarity I will only ask those who are opposed to the request to express their disagreement.

Accordingly, all those opposed to the hon. parliamentary secretary moving the motion will please say nay.

No one having objected, and the House having heard the terms of the motion, all those opposed will please say nay.

There being no dissenting voice, I declare the motion carried.

(Motion agreed to)

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

Opposition Motion—Measures to support Canadian businessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Mr. Speaker, in British Columbia, there are over 500,000 small businesses with 50 employees or fewer. I know Quebec also has a large forestry industry that has been hit hard with job losses. Through you to my hon. colleague, I would say the assistance has come late. Many of our small businesses are shuttering their doors in my province. I know our hon. colleague is hearing the same in his province. Perhaps he can share more of the stories that he is hearing because of the failure of the government.

Opposition Motion—Measures to support Canadian businessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Cariboo—Prince George for his question.

I know what a devoted MP he is and, having heard many of his speeches in the House, I believe that the situations in our respective ridings are quite similar. I reach out to him on issues such as that of Nav Canada. These issues are essential to our SMEs and for our regional economic development, and they affect him as well.

We will have the chance to talk about it together, but an entire segment of economic development relies on air transportation. I know that this affects him as well. Then there is the forestry industry, from which the federal government has been essentially absent.

I would like to see assistance programs for SMEs and businesses that could be similar to the ones we see in Alberta for the petrochemical industry. Despite what people might think, we see that the federal government is very present when it comes to that industry. That is also true for the auto industry in southern Ontario.

For the forestry industry, Canadian programs seem geared more toward supporting companies in the member's neck of the woods, British Columbia, than those in Quebec. That deserves some thought. However, what we need are support programs and subsidies designed for things like R and D and diversifying—

Opposition Motion—Measures to support Canadian businessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

We will give other members a chance to speak.

The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons.

Opposition Motion—Measures to support Canadian businessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the member, reflecting on the motion we have before us, could provide a comment with respect to the price on pollution. Can he reinforce the Bloc's position on the issue of a price on pollution, as well as his thoughts on the Canada pension plan?

Opposition Motion—Measures to support Canadian businessesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Winnipeg North for his question.

Pollution is an important issue for sure.

Bill C-12 is a step in the right direction for nature and the environment, but our generation is going to pay the price for pollution.

We need to be forward-thinking here. We need to hit the Paris targets, and I think focusing on 2030 is a much better approach, even from an economic point of view. Hitting those targets is a big part of it, rather than offloading things to the next generation by focusing on 2050.

I am deeply concerned about our environmental economy. We pay for pollution with our health care and other things, so we need to get serious about tackling economic and environmental issues head-on.