Debates of Feb. 20th, 2020

Opposition Motion—Coastal GasLink Project

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Madam Speaker, I listened carefully to my colleague's words. One part of his speech that I find particularly interesting is that he probably defines one of the main causes of the crisis. That root cause is the Canadian economy's dependence on fossil fuels.

We have seen no indication that, in the future, we will not have more of these blockades being set up by people who are concerned about the climate crisis.

Does my colleague not think that one solution would be to stop overspending on economic projects tied to fossil fuels right now?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Madam Speaker, the number one location in the world for a renewable economy is south central Alberta. Those facts are not from me but from meeting with energy workers, who ask where the plan is for the present Alberta government to start to move ahead on renewables.

What we see with Jason Kenney is a man who does not believe in making any effort and has alienated the rest of the country on this. This is what is causing the crisis. This is the proxy war the Conservatives are fighting.

My hon. colleague from Quebec understands full well that, when Quebec moved ahead with the hydroelectric dam, officials sat down and made a modern treaty with the Cree. They understood that there was going to be a negotiation about how to move forward.

The problem that we are seeing with the Conservative vision is that they are pushing further and further for the increase in greenhouse gas emissions without any credible plan to lower them. Without that, they are not going to have the social licence or the buy-in from the rest of Canadians.

There will be more conflict if people like Jason Kenney continue to push their 20th-century vision as opposed to recognizing a 21st-century reality.

[Paul Manly, Green, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member made an excellent speech and it covered a lot of really good points.

The Conservative motion states that every elected band council on the Coastal GasLink route supports this. Only five of the six Wet'suwet'en first nations actually signed on to the benefits agreement. The media give the idea that the majority of the hereditary chiefs are behind this, but that is not the case. They say that the vast majority of Wet'suwet'en people support this project, as well. I am looking at media links. I am looking at information. There are a lot of unknowns in this situation.

What does the hon. member think of this motion as it stands? Where are the facts? Where did the Conservatives get these numbers? Even in the media reporting, nobody is completely sure how many people in Wet'suwet'en territory support this project or oppose it.

There is a lot of information about the elected chiefs being torn about this and that they signed on to this agreement because of the cash, even though they do not really support it.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague because he is from Vancouver Island, the area where so many of these issues have been faced, and issues such as Delgamuukw and other major legal decisions that have come down in British Columbia about rights and titles.

Every time we brought these things forward such as the Treaty of the Nisga'a, the Conservatives fought unbelievably to stop it. They fought against UNDRIP unbelievably. They had it killed in the House and now they are coming forward as the voice of the Wet'suwet'en people.

I do not think there is an indigenous community in the country that would say the Conservatives have some numbers on the Wet'suwet'en people, so they must be accurate. I have been trying to find these sources of their numbers as well. I know one of them came from a tweet from Jason Kenney, so I think that pretty much sums up the credibility there.

The fundamental issue is that this is a motion that attempts to say there are good native people and there are bad, reckless, agitated ones who are fooling them and dividing them. We are saying we need to sit down and address in a 21st century manner the underlying dissent and obvious problems we are seeing in that region and then say to the rest of the country that out of this we will start to move forward. To just throw numbers around as the Conservatives are doing is not credible, it is just another tactic.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate many of the comments from my friend in regard to the debate thus far today. My question is on the importance of de-escalating the situation. Many of us are really concerned about escalations and the long-term ramifications if something were to go wrong by escalating.

I would be interested in the member's thoughts in terms of how delicate an issue this is. It is not as simple as many would try to portray. They are taking a huge chance, as the Conservatives are doing day in and day out, when they continue to escalate the tensions that are there today.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Madam Speaker, this is why at this moment our Parliament needs to say there is a bigger issue, which is the danger of what happens if some guy in a truck does what he did in Edmonton and tries to do that on a Mohawk blockade, or someone with a bigger vehicle drives through a blockade. Or if someone feels they are going to take this into their own hands and a train gets derailed, or if someone gets hurt. Once someone gets hurt, all our talk is going to become moot and that is the real danger.

This is like Idle No More 2.0. We remember how powerful Idle No More was. This is much bigger and I am hearing from many young people who are watching this. They will see how we play this out in Parliament, so de-escalation has to be the first step that we take.

We do not have a solution for what is happening in the Wet'suwet'en territory right now. No one does right now, but we have to de-escalate so we can get those trains moving and take the tension off.

I would urge my hon. colleague to tell the Prime Minister he needs to sit down and meet. We need to start these meetings. We should have started these meetings two weeks ago, but right now this is where we are at. The longer we wait, the more chance this will go off the rails very badly and very quickly.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Madam Speaker, I will be sharing my time with my colleague from West Nova. I am very happy to see him with us in the House to discuss this important matter.

We are hearing all sorts of things here this morning. However, we are not hearing enough about the real issues or the motion we have put forward today.

The motion of my colleague from Cariboo—Prince George reads as follows:

That the House stand in solidarity with every elected band council on the Coastal GasLink route, the majority of hereditary chiefs, and the vast majority of the Wet'suwet'en people, who support the Coastal GasLink project, and condemn the radical activists who are exploiting divisions within the Wet'suwet'en community, holding the Canadian economy hostage, and threatening jobs and opportunities in Indigenous communities.

That is exactly what we want. We want the conflict to be settled in a reasonable manner with respect for the different rules of law, the injunctions and, above all, the way things are done. The rule of law is important in Canada.

Unfortunately, there is a handful of radicals who are currently doing harm. They are hurting the cause of national reconciliation, they are hurting the cause of the Wet'suwet'en community, and they are hurting the economy of the entire country. That is what I am going to speak to today.

I heard my colleague from the NDP ask us where we get our numbers and whether they are made up. We have heard all kinds of things about the numbers. I will tell you where we get our numbers. They come from the National Coalition of Chiefs, which has said that the majority of hereditary chiefs support the Coastal GasLink project. That is not coming from us, the Bloc Québécois or the Liberals.

In reality, this conflict is being led by a very small number of hereditary chiefs. Two of them are chiefs who ran in legitimate elections in the Wet'suwet'en communities and lost, so they do not have the legitimacy to represent the people of the Wet'suwet'en band council. The vast majority of Wet'suwet'en and all elected band councils on the proposed route of the Coastal GasLink pipeline support the project.

Theresa Tait-Day, one of the hereditary chiefs of the Wet'suwet'en people, said that 85% of her people had supported the Coastal GasLink project.

I am not the one who said that and my colleagues are not either. People from the community itself are telling us that 85% of them support the project. That is the problem. Members on the other side of the House seem unable to hear anything that contradicts what they want to hear.

The fact is that 85% of the Wet'suwet'en people are telling us to support the project. However, the Prime Minister does not want to listen to them. He does not want to talk with them. All they can do is be there and wait for someone to do something.

Unfortunately nothing will ever happen because the Prime Minister has done absolutely nothing for the past two weeks. He is nowhere to be found and is showing a flagrant lack of leadership and unbelievable weakness, while Canada goes through a crisis unlike anything we have seen in a very long time.

The crisis is not connected to the Coastal GasLink project. It goes back a long way. I would say all the way back to the date of the 2015 election.

We all remember the false promises made by this government, the false promises made by this Prime Minister who fails to realize that false promises give false hope. These false hopes have led to major disappointment today, and not just for the indigenous communities who were fooled by the Prime Minister's fine words when he talked about reconciliation and said it was his top priority. Today, five years later, little to nothing has been done.

That is also the case for Canadian taxpayers who were promised small deficits. Today we have huge deficits that are out of control with no end in sight. The same goes for the promises of electoral reform. Hon. members will remember how hopeful everyone was when the Prime Minister promised that the 2015 election would the last one under the current system.

The 2019 election proceeded under exactly the same system as the 2015 election. Everyone who believed there would be electoral reform was very disappointed.

Obviously, that does not seem to bother the Prime Minister. In fact, he is not bothered by much right now because he is absent from this conflict. He talks a good game, but does next to nothing to resolve the situation.

Some of my colleagues from the Bloc Québécois were part of Pauline Marois' government. I am certainly not a big fan of Ms. Marois and I have never been a fan of the Parti Québécois. However, I must say that as a resident and mayor of Thetford Mines, I had a great deal of a respect for Premier Marois when she handled the Lac-Mégantic crisis the way a premier should. She was present and did not leave anyone in the dark. We knew exactly what was happening. It goes to show that sometimes we discover what a person is truly made of in times of crisis.

In this case, we are not learning a thing about the Prime Minister because he is not showing up. He had a chance to rise above the fray and find a solution to the crisis while keeping Canadians informed. Instead he chose to stay away and do nothing. That is why we are now in a very difficult situation. A community is tearing itself apart, Canadian citizens are afraid they will lose their jobs and businesses do not know if they can make it to next week all because nobody knows anything about the government's plan to resolve this crisis.

The municipality of Lac-Mégantic passed a resolution this week because one of its businesses, Tafisa, is in danger of closing. Tafisa employs 330 people and is doing everything it can to stay open, but it does not know what to do with its products or how to run its operations, so 330 families could end up jobless next week or in the near future if the situation is not resolved.

My colleague, the member for Beauce, provided me with some information that is truly troubling. Serge Lacasse of Agri-Marché, which is part of Groupe Brochu, and Laurence Couture of Alfred Couture limitée, have said that there are serious supply problems. The silos are almost empty and next week they will be cleaned out. Even if the trains started moving today, it would take at least five days to get the goods that feed Canadians and cattle. That is serious.

To solve the blockade problem, the government wants to be patient, engage in dialogue and wait for the radical protesters to dismantle their barricades. They say that discussions are taking place, but we do not know with whom because the Prime Minister has not told us anything. In the meantime, real businesses are suffering. Next week, supermarkets might not have food on their shelves. Animals may die because there is no propane. Chickens may die next week because there will be no propane to heat the henhouses. These are actual problems and the situation is real.

Today, I believe that we must rise in support of elected representatives and the majority of the Wet'suwet'en and tell them that we support their decision to choose a project that will give them and their children a better future. We must stand with the elected band leaders who have chosen to support a project that will truly improve the lives of these people.

We must condemn those who, at this time, are holding the rest of Canadians hostage for reasons other than to support the Wet'suwet'en community. In fact, a photograph published in a newspaper article about these blockades showed their real motive: #ShutDownCanada. We will never allow a group, as radical as it may be, to shut Canada down. We will not let anyone take all Canadians hostage.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the question I have for the member opposite is with respect to one of his leadership candidates, Peter MacKay. He made a very strong statement supporting the actions of a couple of individuals who pulled up to a blockade in a truck and dismantled it, which is unsafe for many different reasons. He was putting them on a platform, saying they were good people for what they were doing. That was the essence of what he was trying to portray. Is that something the member or the Conservative caucus supports? Is that something they expect a former minister of justice to say, tweet and applaud with respect to that sort of vigilante action?

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Madam Speaker, I would like to know whether the Liberals support the actions of the radicals who are setting up major blockades and preventing goods from being delivered to our businesses. That may result in the death of some of our farmers' animals. It may prevent people from having food to eat and it may result in major job losses. All of these things might happen because protestors are occupying the rail lines illegally, which the Prime Minister recognized yesterday.

Does my colleague opposite support the illegal acts of the radicals who are occupying the rail lines and holding all Canadians hostage?

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Madam Speaker, if you seek it, I hope you will find unanimous consent of the House to adopt the following motion: That, given the unanimous declaration of the House on February 22, 2007, to condemn all forms of human trafficking and slavery, this House: (a) encourage Canadians to raise awareness of the magnitude of modern-day slavery in Canada and abroad, and take steps to combat human trafficking; and (b) recognize the 22nd day of February as national human trafficking awareness day.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

Does the hon. member have unanimous consent of the House to propose the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

No.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

There is no consent.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Madam Speaker, I would like to congratulate my colleague on his speech.

Colleagues across the way in the government have brought up questions about leadership candidates on our side of the House.

Maybe what my colleague does not understand, being in Ottawa and the bubble that Ottawa is, I am from western Canada and there is growing frustration with the government in shutting down industries and natural resource developments and now allowing blockades to go on in perpetuity. There is frustration with the leadership and the Prime Minister not showing leadership.

What does the member think leadership looks like? Does it look like what the Prime Minister has said recently or what the opposition leader has said in the House in the last few days? What does leadership look like?

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Madam Speaker, the Prime Minister certainly did not demonstrate leadership in the speech he gave to all Canadians and the House this week, when he finally addressed the situation after two weeks. He certainly did not demonstrate very strong leadership.

A leader works to find a solution. He is proactive. He puts this sort of situation at the top of the agenda. He tries to get people to work together to find a solution. This week, the Prime Minister showed weakness. He showed his lack of leadership when he was unable to provide an action plan to put an end to this crisis.

I cannot describe what leadership is, but I can say what it is not. The Prime Minister is really not a leader.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Madam Speaker, I have been listening attentively to my Conservative colleagues all morning. There is one big thing missing from their speeches, and I think it is accountability. Accountability sometimes requires us to be aware that our actions have consequences. Based on what we are hearing from the Conservatives, it seems they are ignoring the very real possibility that tensions could rise.

My colleague mentioned earlier that he is not a big fan of the Parti Québécois. He said he was not a big fan of Pauline Marois. I would like him to know that I am not a big fan of shows of force. The best thing might be to open a dialogue. However, I do not see how our Conservative colleagues' position fosters dialogue.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Madam Speaker, I am glad my colleague asked this question.

I am sure the aluminum industry stakeholders in his region are very eager to see dialogue succeed so their survival is not at risk. If these smelters stop getting supplies, it will take weeks and millions of dollars for aluminum sector companies to get them up and running again.

I hope my colleague realizes that we cannot stop the economy. We need to engage in dialogue and find a solution, but we also need to let the economy work across Canada.

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Madam Speaker, I want to thank the member for Cariboo—Prince George for bringing this motion forward. Being that I am from the other coast, the east coast, I appreciate his personal insight on this issue.

I also want to thank my colleague from Mégantic—L'Érable for his interventions. We are suffering the consequences of these blockades in eastern Canada.

I would like to start at a place where it seems we are all in agreement. These rail blockades are affecting the economy of Canada and need to be shut down. The blockades are illegal. The Prime Minister acknowledged that yesterday in some of his answers during question period. The blockades are affecting the lives of Canadians.

I have no problem with peaceful protests, but they should be done with respect and without hurting anyone. Many times as a provincial MLA we saw people protesting in front of our legislature, asking for representation, asking for changes to laws and fighting for their families, so I understand the representation that it does give to us. So far, on that we can agree.

I have no ill will for the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs in B.C. or the Mohawk in Ontario. They have their convictions. They believe in something and are standing up for it. However, I do have a problem with activists who have no connection to these nations and are using this situation to benefit their cause.

If this had been one protest in one area, I think it might have been resolved in the two weeks that it has been going on. It would have been de-escalated, to use a word that I have heard many times this morning. However, because this has never been truly taken on, other protests have sprung up in support of others. In our area the Confederation Bridge to Prince Edward Island has been shut down. Recently there was the blockage of train tracks in Alberta and the blockage of train tracks in parts of Quebec. All this is occurring because the main problem was not dealt with in a quick fashion, by having a discussion up front and stopping us from getting to this situation. Letting things go before any dialogue began has emboldened others to civil disobedience.

What I find troubling about the situation is that the Liberals have branded themselves as friends of our indigenous peoples. However, where they thought they were doing well, they have obviously failed dramatically and quite honestly have no idea what to do next. This is undermining the process as people are getting frustrated.

Since the government has created the “us against them” narrative dividing our country, let me talk about the effects on Nova Scotia, and more specifically the effects on the beautiful riding of West Nova that I have the honour of representing.

Yesterday, I got to talk about how the blockades are affecting Acadian Seaplants. This company was founded in 1981 by Louis Deveau, a leader in Nova Scotia's Acadian community. The company processes raw seaweed into food products for human and animal consumption. The company has grown since it was first founded. It now has 400 employees and exports to 80 countries.

Louis' son and now CEO, J.P. Deveau, has expressed his concerns on the blockade, due to the fact that Acadian Seaplants is one of the province's largest consumers of propane. They have orders to fill, and in order to do that, they need to convert their 115,000 square foot operation in the small community of Cornwallis to be able to use light oil, or furnace oil, which is a more environmentally sensitive product adding an extra 63% to their fuel bill compared to propane.

Beyond this challenge, Mr. Deveau has concerns about being able to ship his product, as it is normally containerized and shipped around the world. Cargo ships are being diverted from the port of Halifax, causing an interruption in Nova Scotia's connection to the world and its export strength.

When I talked to Mr. Deveau, he was very worried about how long it will take for the industry to get back to normal once the blockades come down.

Also in my riding of West Nova, Royal Propane is a wonderful small business. As a matter of fact, it installed the propane fireplace in my mother-in-law's house. It redistributes propane from the same supplier that Acadian Seaplants uses, Wilson Fuels, which is trying its best to get product trucked from somewhere else. Normally, that would come from Montreal, but as we heard from my colleagues, it probably does not exist there either.

I was talking to the manager of Royal Propane earlier this week. She is concerned for the employees she would have to lay off the next day if nothing changed. Forty employees will have to be laid off because there is no propane to provide. She is also concerned about her clients who use propane as a method of heating their homes.

This causes further problems for small businesses in my region, as we do not have natural gas running under our streets. Local restaurants and other businesses will start to run out soon, cascading the problem even worse.

The Eden Valley Poultry plant in Berwick employs 430 people. It processes birds from all over the Atlantic provinces. It is currently still in production, but will run out of propane and oxygen sooner than later. Not only does this directly affect jobs at the plant, but it also affects hundreds of jobs on the farms raising chickens and turkeys for market.

The secondary concern that Eden Valley has is that protests, like the one on the Confederation Bridge, stop and delay the trucks that have live birds inside from crossing over, causing an animal welfare issue.

Speaking of the animal welfare issue, a large amount of feed comes from western Canada for our agricultural sector. Companies like Clarence Farm Services in Truro are trying to get product trucked from Quebec and Ontario, but this will increase the cost, causing financial hardship for our producers and a complete lack of product causing other animal welfare issues.

I would like to read part of the letter that was provided to me from Clarence Farm Services. It states:

We have had some ingredients arrive before CN shut down the national rail service, and others that were shipped from east of Belleville that have made it to Truro. However, CN's space in their Truro yard is now filling and they will not pull empties from our siding to place other full cars that are in Truro—so basically our rail service is ended. As a result of the situation we have been scrambling to bring ingredients in via truck (both sourced locally and from Ont./PQ).

Finally, my friend, Dan Mullen, is a farmer who was hit by market forces in the past few years when the mink industry was decimated. Being a great farmer, he adapted his infrastructure into greenhouses, producing greens and other products for local markets. He heats with propane and either has wrapped up or will be wrapping up his production soon because he can no longer heat those greenhouses.

I know my time is coming to an end, but I thought I would quote a couple of people.

First is the Liberal Premier of Nova Scotia, Stephen McNeil. He was quoted in aIINovaScotia this morning saying that government needs to do what is necessary to protect Canada's economy as protesters bring rail traffic to a standstill. He said, “The laws of this country need to be enforced. All of us need to abide by the laws of Canada, and we believe it is up to the national government to do what is necessary to ensure the economic future of our country and our province continue to move forward.”

Finally, this discussion is extremely important for Canadians. It is probably one of the toughest discussions we will have in the House of Commons, but as John F. Kennedy stated, “We do not do these things because they are easy, we do these things because they are hard.”

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Madam Speaker, many in this debate have acknowledged that this is fundamentally a problem for the Wet'suwet'en nation to resolve. However, in this motion, the Conservatives have taken a strong position on one side of the question while characterizing the other side as radical extremists exploiting divisions in the community.

How can they expect to foster a Wet'suwet'en solution or unity by exasperating the divide in this way?

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Madam Speaker, what the Conservatives have said is that the Wet'suwet'en, the Mohawks in Belleville are all concerned about their environment. It is the other activists who are attaching themselves to these groups, saying they are supportive. Quite honesty, they are there to shut down the energy sector, to shut down progress in the country and hurt the rest of Canada. We are mad at those people.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Madam Speaker, I appreciated my colleague's presentation. I fully agree with him about the economic impact of the crisis we are experiencing. We must, however, find a way out of this crisis. How are we going to do that?

We have been talking about leadership all day. What we ask of a leader is to make concrete proposals. In that regard, we have already put forward the idea of asking the RCMP to withdraw and eventually be replaced by an indigenous police force.

I wonder if my colleague would agree with that proposal.

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Madam Speaker, we have been talking about leadership all day. There is no leadership from this government. They have just had discussions with the indigenous people in the area. They are offering no solution. The Prime Minister is here every day, as is the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations. They are here every day.

Why are they not in Vancouver or the British Columbia region to have discussions and make sure the blockades end? We need those discussions. We need leadership and that starts with the government.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Madam Speaker, in his comments, the member said that it was unacceptable or he could not stand it when people from outside of the Wet'suwet'en territory used this issue in a political or partisan way. Is that not precisely what this motion is doing?

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Not at all, Madam Speaker. In fact, it is probably doing the opposite, ensuring we are doing our job, which is to talk about the interests of all Canadians. We want to ensure this issue comes to the floor of the House for dialogue. If the dialogue can truly start here, then hopefully the people sitting on the front benches of the government will understand the importance and the effects to the rest of Canada. My folks are getting angry and frustrated because of the inaction of the government.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Madam Speaker, my hon. colleague from West Nova has offended deeply a sense of democracy and allyship that exists across the country. I respect the member enormously, but I have to make it clear that young people, people my age, seniors who stand in solidarity with indigenous peoples are no different, having no big connection. All the Canadians who stood up against apartheid, what was their connection? Whites walked with Martin Luther King. Did they have no connection? Did they have no right to be moved? Did they have no right to speak up against injustice when the groups that faced injustice were almost entirely, and usually vulnerable, and the minority?

Those who stand in allyship should not be condemned, as they have been by the motion today by the Conservatives. I ask my friend from West Nova to think again.