House of Commons Hansard #5 of the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was pandemic.

Topics

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:05 a.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Mr. Speaker, I really enjoyed my colleague's speech. I have a good relationship with him.

Today, former NDP MP Françoise Boivin tweeted that she felt a pang at seeing her former NDP colleagues vote in favour of a gag order. I wonder what the member, who just gave a wonderful speech, thinks about that. One of her former colleagues, who was here during the Harper era and experienced these gag orders, would never have voted for one. She felt a pang at seeing her former colleagues vote in favour of the motion.

I would like to know how she feels about her former colleague's tweet.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:10 a.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Speaker, the member and I work very well together and he will know that, at the international human rights committee, we had planned to bring forward a report on the genocide of the Uighurs in China. Of course I was very disappointed to hear the government had chosen prorogation. It is the reason we are supporting this now. It is very disappointing that we have not been debating this, looking at it and taking care of Canadians while Parliament was prorogued, but I feel it is so important that we get the help out to Canadians. Of course I am completely disappointed that the Liberals dropped the ball on this and left it to the last minute. It is a complete abdication of their responsibility, but I understand that it is more important for us to get the support to Canadians as fast as we can.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:10 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting that my hon. colleague said we need this to go out as fast as possible but we also need a guillotine motion, a debate closure motion, and that the NDP are supporting that. We have all said we need to take care of the citizens of this country. Would it not be appropriate to just have allowed debate to fall on its own?

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:10 a.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Speaker, I really wish we had that opportunity to debate, but because we have run out of time, I do not want to go back to the people of Edmonton Strathcona and tell them they have to wait. I spoke to a woman on the phone who burst into tears when I told her that we were fighting to have the CERB extended. I have talked to artists who do not know what they are going to do. I have stood on people's doorsteps and the one thing they have said to me is that they need to know how they are going to be taken care of because they cannot go back to work.

It is not about us in the House, or what we do in the virtual or the real House. It is about what Canadians need right now, and they need the support they are going to get from Bill C-4.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:10 a.m.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, I want to follow up on this theme because, as the hon. member mentioned, it is frustrating to find ourselves with this sense of urgency, which was concocted by the government. I wonder what it will mean for Canadians if every time the Liberals come up with some kind of cockamamie political scheme, we decide to punish them.

I wonder if the member would like to remind members of the House when exactly the CERB expired and what that means for Canadians who do not know what is coming as a replacement and who already have to plan for October and have to know how they are going to pay their landlord and put food on the table. Yes, the blame lays squarely at the feet of the Liberal government for having created this sense of urgency when there was time to debate it.

However, is it the right thing to do to punish Canadians who are on the ropes for the incompetence of the Liberal government, or is it better to put that aside, in a state of emergency, and move swiftly to make sure that while we figure out the politics of it Canadian households are not on the ropes?

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:10 a.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Speaker, I feel we are really missing the thread if we start to focus on whether or not we have had adequate time to debate the bill. Yes, it is vital for the strength of our democracy, but as I said, I am talking to people in my riding who are desperate, who need support and who need to know what is happening when the CERB ends. This will give them the ability to have some peace of mind.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:15 a.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to join in this debate tonight. We have heard all through the night from members of Parliament about the issues around the impact of the pandemic and what it is like for their constituents, for the people in their community. The impact has been significant. There is no question.

It is no less significant in my community of Vancouver East. Right from the get-go, when the pandemic was on the horizon, New Democrats got up on the floor to call on the government to act. Members will recall that the government's response was that it was going to waive the 10-day waiting period for EI. That was the extent of what the government was going to do.

New Democrats said that was absolutely unacceptable, because some 60% of Canadians do not qualify for EI. Through all of that process and driving the issue, New Democrats would have ideally liked to see a universal direct payment or a livable basic income. The government resisted that, and it came in with the CERB program.

The CERB program is an important program, but let us be honest with ourselves. Even the Liberal members know this. The CERB program excluded a lot of people. As soon as the government announced that program, we had to fight like crazy to drive the issue, to bring forward the voices of the people who were left out and to say that we could not leave them behind.

The Liberals left seniors behind. They left people with disabilities behind. They left students behind. They left self-employed individuals behind. They left so many people behind, part-time workers, migrant workers, and on and on the list went. New Democrats went at it like there was no tomorrow to drive home the message that we had to do better, that it was our obligation to do better.

We did get there. The government slowly, bit by bit, fixed some of those programs. Even with that, there are still people who did not get the support they should have gotten. Here is one example, and I raised this directly with the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development. Single parents who are reliant on child support, as a result of COVID-19, lost that income. The Canadian government did not see that as income and, therefore, they did not qualify for CERB. I raised that directly with the minister, who indicated that she understood that she had to be there and that the government had to be there to support women. However, to this day, that has not been fixed.

That has been the pattern of the Liberal government to date, quite frankly, and it has been the NDP's job to consistently go after the government to do better. Bill C-4 is exactly just that, because we went after the government to do better.

I know some people will say that the NDP is in bed with the Liberals. Let us be clear about that. We are not in bed with anyone, with the exception of Canadians who need help. Our job is to make sure that we deliver support to them at this most critical time, a time when we are faced with a pandemic.

The government decided to prorogue the House and it was a shameful act, to be honest. It left people in the lurch in the middle of a pandemic and wondering what was going to happen to them. Before the government left, it said it was going to end the CERB program, but it was going to come in with another measure that reduced the amount of support. It was going to reduce the amount from $2,000 a month to $1,600, leaving so many people behind.

New Democrats never gave up. Our leader, the member for Burnaby South, and our critic, the member for Elmwood—Transcona, just went after it relentlessly, saying that we needed to do better and demanded better. The result is Bill C-4. We actually got the government to change the program, to move towards what it needed to be, which was to provide $2,000 a month in support for people in need, for all the people who were left out. This is why we have Bill C-4 before us today.

Right from the get-go, New Democrats have said there is something wrong with our labour standards, in the sense that somehow people who fall ill are not eligible for paid sick leave. What is wrong with this picture? It was particularly evident in the middle of the pandemic when this occurred.

The government was not really going to move on that. It was the New Democrats who continually drove that issue to where we are today, with the changes we see before us in Bill C-4, so that people could get the sick leave they need.

All of that said, these measures are a patchwork approach. That is the reality of what we have today, and it is better than nothing, but the government claims that it wants to build back better. It should give some meaning to those words and make these programs permanent. We should not have to fight this every single time we are in a situation where we do not know what the future may hold. People should not have to worry about their future. People should be treated with the kind of respect and dignity that we all deserve. That is what the New Democrats will continue to fight for.

I think this highlights a very clear issue for us with respect to what needs to be done. My very good colleague, the member from Winnipeg, put forward a guaranteed livable income motion. We should be debating that. We should be talking about how to implement that to make sure that nobody gets left behind.

The government talked about the great work it is doing with respect to housing. I listened intently to the throne speech and was looking to hear from the government about real, concrete action to deliver housing to people in the middle of a pandemic. Just before the throne speech the government announced 3,000 housing units. It was a rapid housing response, it said. Let us put this in context. From a homelessness count that was recently done, we know there are over 2,000 homeless people in Vancouver alone. Three thousand units are not going to do it.

My colleague, the member for Nunavut, just took a tour of her region, and it makes my heart weep to hear the testimony she shared with me and my colleagues about what she saw, about the experiences of people who are homeless and living in “mouldy boxes”. These are houses so infested with mould that it is making them sick. People are losing their children because they do not have proper, safe, adequate, affordable housing. Families are breaking up. She called it the modern-day colonization. That is the reality. What is wrong with this picture when we have this situation today and the government brags about 3,000 units as though that is the solution?

Today I say it is not good enough. This is a start, and the New Democrats are doing their level best to drive forward this issue with the government. We have to do more than just talk. It is incumbent on all of us as elected members in the House to do that job, not to play games, not for partisan politics and not to point fingers. At the end of the day, we must ask what we are delivering to the people who elected us to represent them.

For those in Vancouver East and all the people in my community, people in the Strathcona encampment who are homeless today, people struggling with the opioid crisis, seniors who need standardized national long-term care support and people and families who need support from the Canadian government, we need to be a real partner at the table. We need to deliver, not just talk. It is enough already. This is a heads-up to all Liberal members to stop patting themselves on the back. They should ask themselves what they are going to do today to do better.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:20 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate and recognize that the New Democrats are supporting the legislation. That is a good thing, as they have a great deal to contribute. However, I would not want to underestimate anything. The member said that we should not pat ourselves on the back, but she has spent a great deal of time patting the NDP on the back.

Looking at what we have accomplished in the last eight months, support programs have been put in place. From day one, the Prime Minister has said that we will be there for Canadians during this trying time. There was the creation of the CERB program and the wage loss program; supports for the GIS program, the OAS program and our students; and the summer programs. The list goes on. I can comment about members in the Liberal caucus, but members of all caucuses contributed immensely to the debate and ensured that we could get some of the changes we are seeing here today.

I wonder if the member acknowledges that it took a combination of a wide spectrum of people, even beyond members of Parliament, to ensure that we had the changes we are bringing forward today to continue to support Canadians from coast to coast to coast.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:25 a.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Mr. Speaker, if the Liberals are truly reflecting on their actions today, then they really should ask themselves why they did not follow what the New Democrats said and brought in a universal direct income program. If they did that, people would not have to fight continually for the government to fill the holes and gaps that it created. The Liberals should truly reflect on that and understand the implications of what it means. Going forward, what can we do and what can the government do to do better?

In this debate on Bill C-4, why not put in the legislation that it would be a permanent program so that we do not need to have this debate over and over again? Who among the Liberals said to the Prime Minister that this is not acceptable and that they want to see a permanent program? I challenge the—

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Saint-Jean.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:25 a.m.

Bloc

Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Mr. Speaker, I must admit that I am having some difficulty understanding my colleague's beliefs. She voted in favour of the gag order, but she voted against the Bloc Québécois motion calling on the government not to leave out seniors between the ages of 65 and 75. Perhaps that is not what really bothered her. She voted against health transfers. Perhaps that is not what really bothered her either. There was one other thing in the motion, and that was respect for Quebec's jurisdiction. Her colleague from Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie even said that he supported the Bloc Québécois because he believes in respecting Quebec's jurisdiction.

Am I to understand that a gag order is more important to her than respecting Quebec's jurisdiction?

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:25 a.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Mr. Speaker, let us be clear. The New Democrats have always recognized Quebec's unique history within Canada.

With respect to the motion put forward by the Bloc, the component I find myself challenged with is the suggestion that the federal government should provide funding to Quebec and other provinces with no strings attached. In some cases we actually do need to set national standards. For example, with the Canada Health Act, we need to set national standards to ensure that when dollars flow we have the deliverables from the provinces.

Take a look at what is going on right now in New Brunswick with Clinic 554. Right now people are not able to access the very services they need for reproductive health, particularly the LGBTQ2+ and transgender communities. That is not okay. We need to set national standards to ensure that everyone can access the health care they need.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:25 a.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Madam Speaker, it is an honour to rise in the House at any hour to address the important issues that Canadians are facing as we are in this pandemic.

To begin with, I would like to acknowledge that we are on the territory of the Algonquin nation.

To the Algonquin Nation, I express gratitude for their extraordinary generosity and hospitality. Meegwetch.

This evening has been an interesting experience because we are of course at distance and each party has to reduce its numbers in the House. I have been with my colleague from Fredericton and my colleague from Nanaimo—Ladysmith. We have been coming in by turns, so in our last round of voting I was voting by Zoom. Probably some of us now in the House were as well. There was an eerie moment when, as we were voting, one could hear Donald Trump's voice. Someone on one of the channels was paying attention to the U.S. presidential debate.

I only mention this because I am extremely grateful to be Canadian. I am very grateful to be with all of the members here tonight and those who are still on Zoom. I am very grateful that even in our partisan debates, which for Canadians can sometimes veer toward the toxic, we hear each other and, for the most part, speak respectfully to each other. We do not have a leader who yells and refuses to condemn white supremacy. It is distressing, to put it mildly.

In the context of speaking to this, I want to commend those things about all of us that make us Canadian. I am grateful that this Parliament is a minority Parliament. I do not much like false majorities where a minority of the voters can deliver 100% of the power to the party that has the most seats. I am grateful for how closely this Parliament, facing the COVID pandemic, as the member for Barrie—Innisfil was mentioning earlier tonight, was working with the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the parliamentary secretary and many others to get our constituents home. We have for the most part, throughout this pandemic, found ways to work together.

I am grateful that the New Democratic Party worked with the Liberals to vastly improve the piece of legislation we have in front of us. However, we cannot say it solves all the problems, and I will speak to that for the bulk of my remarks.

Earlier tonight, one of our colleagues said that Canada was failing, and I want to address that directly. We are struggling. Every single part of the human family is, no matter where we find those governments and societies, however they are knit together in successful, healthy democracies that are prosperous like ours or in countries that were on the verge of collapse before COVID hit. Every country is struggling to one degree or another. I thank God I am not in Brazil, where Bolsonaro just got rid of all the restrictions on logging in the mangrove forests while the Amazon is so dry that the Pantanal wetland, an extraordinary wetland of biodiversity, is on fire.

This is our entire planet's heritage, and our planet is now on fire. In British Columbia, we are breathing in the smoke from fires in California, Oregon and Washington State. We are dealing with two emergencies at once: the pandemic and climate change.

When I look around the world at where I could live, what I could be, what country I could belong to, we are not failing; we are struggling. We are working together too, and as long as we keep the spirit of working together, we will get through this okay. We will get through this and will be capable of building back better. We will be capable of reimagining our future. We will deliver. We may not not trust each other all that much because we belong to different political parties, but when we get past the thing about our parties, we trust each other. If I were in trouble, I could call any of the people here and I know there would be help coming. We are one family, all of us Canadians.

In that context, I welcome this legislation. I hope it alleviates the concerns for most Canadians, but it clearly does not speak to all of us. There is much more work to do.

One particular group of Canadians that has been let down badly through all of this is Canadians with disabilities. We have a lot more work to do there, as well as for businesses. As my friend from Courtenay—Alberni mentioned earlier, so many businesses are in deep trouble.

I am very concerned for the tourism sector. There is an iconic tourism business in my riding, the Butchart Gardens. My colleagues from Vancouver Island and others across Canada know Butchart Gardens. I have been talking to the general manager and the CEO, who are very worried that they will not make it to next year. Their business has dropped by 90%. They had to lay off 450 people. Help is not coming, so the tourism business particularly needs an infusion of relief help and cash. Somehow we have to do that.

Individual small businesses, restaurateurs, touring companies, in fact all kinds of companies, small and large, are still in trouble and we do not know when the pandemic will end. I remember when it started, more or less, and standing here on March 13, I wondered if we really did not have to come back until April 20. That seemed a rather long time.

Do my colleagues remember how that felt? We had no idea then and we still do not know, so it is very important for Canada that we actually hold together.

I will reference something before I turn back to the bill: One of Canada's more brilliant academics, Thomas Homer-Dixon, has a new book out called Commanding Hope, which is about how it really matters to use hope as a tool to hang on to and pull people through in tough times. It could not have come out at a better time than now, with the dual threats of the climate crisis and the pandemic. He mentioned to me that, in polling around the world, an encouraging sign was that most countries are encouraging more social cohesion than before the pandemic started. That is not the case in the United States or Brazil, but most nations are feeling that sense of all being in this together that my father used to tell me about. He grew up in London during the Blitz.

My father said, at one point when we had been busy fighting the government of Nova Scotia on one environmental fight or another, that he really preferred the Second World War. I asked him how he could possibly prefer the Second World War when he was at risk of being blown up at any moment. He said, “Back then, you know, we really had the feeling the government was on our side.” That is how people are feeling now, I think.

In a long time, generationally speaking, we have been distanced from the notion that if someone is in real trouble they are not going to turn to the billionaire class to bail them out, because they are busy making money on their own. They are not figuring out how to hold bake sales for the rest of us.

Coming back to this bill, I am extremely glad to see the changes that have been made to make sure that it is $500 a week and not $400 a week. I am extremely glad to know that we are trying to figure out how we can have a Canada recovery benefit, a Canada recovery sickness benefit, and a Canada recovery caregivers benefit. Reading the details of this, what comes to me is how hard it is to legislate by specific example while hoping not to forget anyone.

I would like to read an example. Of course all of my colleagues here have read this, but if anyone is an insomniac and watching this right now: Someone will qualify for this benefit if they have a child who is normally cared for, and who is under the age of 12, on the first day of the week because the school that the child normally attended has had to close for reasons related to COVID. Maybe the school would be open at certain times of the day, or the child could not attend school because the child had contracted or might have contracted COVID-19. Maybe the child was in isolation because a doctor said they might be better off in isolation, or they might be at risk of health complications. Maybe the person who usually cared for the child was not available because of COVID-19, or because they cared for a family member who required supervised care because the day program or facility that the family member normally attended was closed.

I could go on and on. In trying to anticipate every specific in order to have the benefit work for everyone, listing specifics inevitably leaves something out. I would suggest again, and not for the first time in this place, that we really need to think about the universality of our social safety net. Our health care system works because it was made universal. If Tommy Douglas had sat down in Saskatchewan way back when and said, “Let us create a health care system where we can list the people who might need help,” it would not have worked. If people happen to be very sick, and let us say there is only xamount of money in their bank account, or let us say someone is only a bit sick, it would never work. Universality is necessary for a social safety net. It is really time to talk about and implement a guaranteed livable income.

We know the Parliamentary Budget Officer did an initial review and said that a universal income would be cheaper than CERB. A truly universal income would be enormous but would end up saving our society money in the health care system, because poverty is the single largest social determinant of health. It would save us money on corrections, because it is a lot cheaper to make sure people are going to school, getting a good start in life and going to university than keeping them in jail, which costs over $100,000 a year per prisoner. As Hugh Segal, former Progressive Conservative Senator has shown in his book, Bootstraps Need Boots, there are multiple good, solid reasons to move to a guaranteed livable income.

I put this to the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion earlier today and I was really pleased with her answer, which I will paraphrase. She said what we are doing now is getting this benefit out to replace CERB, and CERB is going to turn into EI. Then there are relief and sickness programs, and I completely agree with the New Democrats that being able to take sick leave is something that every Canadian should be able to count on.

However, all that aside, the minister shared that just because we are doing this now does not mean that there are other conversations to be had. Let us hang on to that and really work with Finance Canada, the Parliamentary Budget Office and the provincial and municipal orders of government and figure out how much money could be saved if we stopped having shame-based poverty band-aid programs. These include welfare programs where, if a single mother goes back to work, any money she makes is clawed back from welfare, or if a single mother lives with her boyfriend, she loses all the benefits. This kind of programming does not eliminate poverty, it perpetuates poverty.

It is in the interests of Canada as whole. It is in the interests of the health of our society, our resilience and our ability to manage the next pandemic. We really cannot manage what happens with the climate crisis if we do not act fast. Frankly, the Speech from the Throne is quite inadequate in that regard, but tonight's debate is not on the Speech from the Throne, so I will stick to the Canada recovery benefit and the other sections of the bill.

This gives us a sense of what must be done, but we are still falling short. I take heart from the minister's response about 13 hours ago. Her response earlier today was that there is a conversation to be had about guaranteed livable income in this country. How much progress is that? In the 2019 election, only a year ago, only the Greens were talking about guaranteed livable income. Some NDP spoke of it as well, but not in the platform.

We need to grab this moment. How large are the transformational moments that are possible now? This is not just a pandemic affecting Canada. This is global. Every single modern democracy, every G20 country is dealing with debt and deficits.

We have to think big. We have to reimagine our rules. I was pleased that the Prime Minister said to the United Nations, let's think about something as big as a new version of the Bretton Woods Conference. Let's really look at what can be done, because we are at a hinge moment in history.

This bill helps. It will not be enough, but let us pass it quickly.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:45 a.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Madam Speaker, I have tremendous respect for the member who just spoke. Frankly, I have been around since she got her start, and I have to admit that I adore her. We are really opening up tonight.

My mother told me something I will never forget. We cannot compare ourselves to the worst of our kind because then we will certainly be the best. This evening, we listened to Mr. Bolsonaro and Mr. Trump. Obviously, compared to them, we are the best.

The reason we are here tonight is that the government imposed closure and prorogued Parliament six weeks ago. I do not think that is what it means to be the best.

I have enormous respect for the member, and I would like her to tell me why she thinks the government prorogued Parliament. Was it really to deliver a throne speech and reorient its vision vis-à-vis COVID-19? Or was it to hide scandals like the WE Charity scandal?

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:45 a.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague. I am truly delighted to know that he adores me. It is so difficult to talk about the other things right now. I apologize, it is late and it is difficult for me to speak French.

I do not think there is any doubt that we would not have had prorogation if Bill Morneau and the Prime Minister had not bumped into the WE Charity scandal. I do not think there is any doubt about that.

I am much more charitable than most, in that I recognize the immense difference between this and the 2008 prorogation, which was epically unconstitutional. It was an effort by a prime minister to avoid a vote he knew he would lose, in which he might not have been able to form a government because there was a coalition waiting in the wings. That is a very different situation. In all of the Commonwealth nations, those that use Westminster parliamentary democracy, our very interesting archaic system, only one other country had ever had a prime minister go to the Governor General for prorogation to avoid a vote they knew they would lose. The previous example was also Canadian: Sir John A. Macdonald. The only other country where this had ever happened was Sri Lanka, where the Governor General turned them down.

There are prorogations that are toxic and unconstitutional, and there are prorogations that are convenient and politically unworthy. This was of the latter variety.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:45 a.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague and neighbour. I can see the beautiful Mount Maxwell on Salt Spring Island from my house, and that is part of the riding of Saanich—Gulf Islands.

I want to thank her for expanding the conversation we are having tonight on Bill C-4, to talk about how this really is a first step. I think many Canadians are seeing this as a moment in time where we have the ability to reimagine what Canada's full potential can be.

We have heard a lot of discussion today. Part of the discussion has centred on the cost, and I will agree that it has been a significant cost, but I am really glad that in the course of her debate she also started touching on the cost of institutionalized poverty and how that continues to be such a drag on so many of our communities right across this great country. I look, in the Cowichan Valley, at how the opioid crisis is ravaging the downtown core of Duncan right now. That is traced back to institutionalized poverty. These are individuals who have suffered multiple forms of trauma.

Whether it is mental health, physical abuse or the ongoing trauma of everyday lived experiences in poverty, those have real costs to our society. They have costs that the member mentioned in incarceration rates and in our health services.

I just want to ask her to again comment on how investments in things like a guaranteed livable income are actually, in the long run, going to make our country a better place, not only socially and in terms of health, but also economically, to put us on a path for the better.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:50 a.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Madam Speaker, yes, of course, I know my dear colleague from Cowichan—Malahat—Langford could not see Mount Maxwell lately because we were in so much smoke. It has been a very depressing time between knowing we can only visit our friends outdoors and at a distance, but we cannot because we have to go indoors because of the smoke, and our friends cannot come in with us because they are not in our bubble. It is a distressing time.

The institutionalized poverty and accepting it as normal is not something Canada should ever do. I do not know how many people experienced this walking along in Europe, but I did not see anybody homeless on the street there with a hat upside-down hoping they could panhandle their way to their next meal. That is not something we see. I talk about Jim with my friend from New Westminster—Burnaby. I have not seen Jim lately, but I have not been walking on the street. Jim is a friend, a veteran, who needs to panhandle for his medication just outside of the Château Laurier.

There is no excuse for a country like Canada to tolerate poverty. Martin Luther King said many years ago that there was only one solution he had ever found to eliminate poverty and it is a guaranteed income.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:50 a.m.

Windsor—Tecumseh Ontario

Liberal

Irek Kusmierczyk LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Employment

Madam Speaker, I want to begin by acknowledging that the signature, eloquence and passion of the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands is not diminished one bit even at 1:50 in the morning.

I very much appreciate the comments the member shared at the beginning of her speech when she emphasized the collaboration and the real, true team Canada approach, which is really the signature of this piece of legislation and how it came about. It is a common theme that I noticed, and was also in the comments that were made by my colleague, the MP for Edmonton Strathcona as well as the MP for Vancouver East. They acknowledge the fact that this bill really is the product of the government and the opposition working together, listening to each other. I think that is the particular strength of Bill C-4, that it is undergirded and supported by the fact that this was a tremendous listening exercise.

We listened not just to each other, not just to members across the aisle, but we also listened to our constituents. We listened to workers, Canadians, families, unions and businesses. That really is that particular strength, the collaboration, that listening and working together, for Bill C-4.

As the member pointed out as well, moving forward, the legislation is going to evolve. This legislation that is being brought forward is not going to preclude other changes. In fact, the evolution has always been the signature of our response to the COVID-19 pandemic and the fact that we adapt to it.

I would ask the member to comment on that sense of collaboration and team work that really undergirded the design and development of Bill C-4.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:50 a.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Madam Speaker, we have been holding community meetings, as I am sure other members have, but the community meetings we used to have in the local community hall have been replaced by the latest thing that has come to both aid us and torment us: Zoom. I meet with my constituents frequently, and their concerns are the same as I think all of us have heard. There are concerns about how they are going to make ends meet and concerns about keeping a business open, but they are very encouraged when I tell them that we are all working together. Civil servants are working awfully hard. Everyone knows that by hanging together, we will help each other.

Partisanship is our enemy in this. That is why I am very nervous with first New Brunswick, and now British Columbia and Saskatchewan, because the more elections we have, I feel as though the less safe we are. It is not that democracy as experienced in an election is not a healthy thing, but I worry about us trying to score points off each other more than band together to help our constituents.

The legislation before us shows that spirit of collaboration in the interests of Canada.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Pursuant to an order made earlier today, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the bill now before the House.

Is the House ready for the question?

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:55 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:55 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 1:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Pursuant to order made Wednesday, September 23, we will now proceed to a recorded vote.

Call in the members.

COVID-19 Response Measures ActGovernment Orders

September 30th, 2:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

The list of members voting by video conference has now been established for use by the table.