Debates of Nov. 25th, 2021

Motion That Debate Be Not Further Adjourned

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

In my opinion the nays have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Call in the members.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

While we are waiting for the vote count, I want to point out that Robert Benoit did a flawless job.

He recognized every member in the language of their choice. Well done.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #1

Order Respecting the Business of the House and its Committees

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I declare the motion carried.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I regret rising, but I must.

During debate today there was an unacceptable level of heckling that was rude and unbecoming of parliamentarians. When I was voting, I was being booed by opposition members and that is not acceptable.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I want to thank the hon. member for her observation and her point of order.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes.

The House resumed from November 24 consideration of the motion, and of the amendment.

Resuming Debate on the Order Respecting the Business of the House and its Committees

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise to conclude my remarks with respect to this motion. While we heard great enthusiasm from the government benches and their coalition colleague, the independent member for Saanich—Gulf Islands, I would expect, of course, nothing but silence and peak attention from the government benches as we discuss this important motion.

We have a situation following nearly 20 months of real change in the way we have had to do things in this place, and now the government is looking to do what it has done many times over that 20 months, that is, to limit accountability and hide from its responsibilities to answer to Canadians, to answer to the opposition and of course to answer to the media.

While Canadians have returned to their workplaces and while they follow the best public health advice, we too, as parliamentarians, continue to do the same. However, what is different here? Unlike most Canadians, the Liberals are looking to pull a fast one and take advantage of Canadians while they are still settling into a new way of doing things during the pandemic, a new way of going to work, with masking and the like. They are looking for an opportunity to hide from accountability. While the rest of Canadian society looks to get back to a new normal, they are looking to do anything but.

We saw it all during the previous Parliament. There were technical difficulties that would not allow them to participate. We saw ministers on the Hill who had travelled to Ottawa but would not come into the chamber. We have seen them avoid the scrutiny of media by making sure they did not have to face any of them in person, getting out of their chauffeur-driven cars to go into their offices, and going back to their chauffeur-driven cars and then home. They never had to face a scrum and opposition politician in person or, heaven forbid, a Canadian on the street.

What we are looking for is simply a return to normal. What would I suggest as an alternative to the government proposal? Should a member, heaven forbid, fall ill, we should revive an age-old, time-tested reliable practice and allow members to pair with another member. If there is care and concern on the other side for a member on this side, which I believe there is, offer the pairing process again.

We have an opportunity to show Canadians that we are willing to get back to work. The time has come. Here we are operating safely. We are committed to that process, and we are looking for the government to be committed to a process that is accountable to Canadians and truly accountable to the responsibilities that members were elected to uphold.

It looks like I do not have any time left, but I do look forward to taking questions from my colleagues. I hope that should this motion pass, members continue to come to this chamber to be accountable to Canadians through questions in this place, accountable at committee and accountable to the media.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, I found the interventions by the member, from both the other day and today, to be quite interesting. He even reflected in his comments that Canadians are finding “a new way of going to work”. That is exactly what this is about. This is about giving flexibility to members to ensure they can continue to participate in the event they are not able to come here because, one, they perhaps have contracted COVID-19 or, two, they have been in close proximity to someone who has, and they are using their better discretion to not be in close contact with other people.

What I do find most offensive about his comments is the fact that he said that this is somehow a form of limited accountability. Perhaps the member for Carleton's one-liners are not quite as effective if the room is not as full, but can the member explain how this limits accountability when ministers were here to answer questions?

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Madam Speaker, first of all, while I am sorry to hear that the member was offended, I do not believe I said anything offensive. What I did say is that ministers are accountable to this House and to Canadians. What we saw in the last Parliament was disgraceful. They would not even walk across the street or come downstairs to sit in their chairs in an empty House and be accountable to Canadians.

During the member's comments, he said if someone contracts COVID-19, we need to make them work from home. No, they should be recovering. The member who is ill should be paired with another member in this place so we can balance things out, as we have done for hundreds of years. That is what we are asking for.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Madam Speaker, in more than 150 years, we have had to deal with a pandemic only once. In the past 154 years, however, there have certainly been people who were sick with the flu or pneumonia who were contagious, and they stayed at home to take care of themselves without being forced to work remotely.

What is the difference now? Why do we have to adopt a hybrid model when the majority of us are vaccinated, are familiar with the health measures and know that it is important to take care of ourselves when we or one of our loved ones are sick?

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Madam Speaker, the member is absolutely correct. When members of this place are ill, just as when any Canadian is unwell, they should not go to work. This has been done for so long. Why we need to literally reinvent how this place operates is beyond me. We have a system in place. I have referenced it several times. We can pair, and it does balance things out.

We do need to return to how things have been done in the past and this is a very simple way to do it while also allowing accountability, especially keeping in mind that public health guidelines are being strictly adhered to.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Madam Speaker, currently members of the Manitoba legislature are sitting virtually. The leader of the official opposition there, despite being double vaccinated, has contracted COVID and is participating in question period and other deliberations of the legislature virtually.

Does the member feel that the government in Manitoba is jeopardizing democracy in Manitoba?

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Madam Speaker, what we have seen in this place is ministers, the Prime Minister, parliamentary secretaries and government backbenchers duck accountability and absolutely avoid this place like it was the plague that has affected Canada. Parliamentarians are accountable to Canadians. There is an accountability mechanism. They can come to this place safely. It is not too much to ask.

I hear members saying, “Blah, blah, blah.” They ran in the election to come to this place and now they want to get paid to sit in their basements at home. They should do better for Canadians.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Before I recognize the next speaker, I want to remind members that the heckling should cease. When someone has the floor, it is important for them to have the respect of the House. If members wish to say anything, then they should wait until it is time for questions and comments or for their turn to give a speech.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Calgary Nose Hill.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Madam Speaker, today we are debating a motion put forward by the Liberals that would take away several vital components of the functioning of Canada's democracy. With this motion, the Liberals are suggesting that members in this place should not be attending this place, and that to me is very unreasonable. I am going to lay out why.

First of all, the Prime Minister called an election in the middle of the fourth wave of the pandemic. Every person in this place, I would hope, knocked on thousands of doors and talked to thousands of people during the middle of the fourth wave of the pandemic. I maybe could have bought the argument that in-person interactions cannot be managed safely if he had not gone to this unnecessary election, but come on.

In fact, during the unnecessary election, on August 27 the Prime Minister held a campaign stop in a restaurant in Mississauga, where capacity was exceeded. On September 14, he held a campaign rally in Brampton featuring former prime minister Chrétien, with over 400 people in a banquet hall. The argument that somehow we should not be attending this place is bunk.

For the people watching this today, it is a little ridiculous to say that members of Parliament should not be showing up to work, when they have been asked to make every accommodation to get to work, as many across the country do not have the ability to work virtually.

The reason the Prime Minister wants to pass this motion to not be here in person is very simple. He does not want to be here to be accountable. That is it.

During the last several months, in the lead-up to the unnecessary election, which saw us knock on tens of thousands of doors across the country during the middle of the fourth wave of the pandemic, the ministers of the governing party would sit in their offices or in their homes and read talking points off a computer screen. That is not accountability. They do not want to be here because they do not want people like me, who are very good at their jobs, holding them to account. They do not want to answer the questions of my colleagues.

That is the antithesis of democracy. We have this place for this reason. Again, we just went through a federal election, where the Prime Minister held campaign rallies. He does not want us to be here because he does not want to be held to account. We have seen this before. In previous parliaments, the Liberals suggested we should not show up for work on Fridays. They tried to cancel question period on Fridays. They tried to do all sorts of things.

The other reason the Liberals put this motion forward is our parliamentary committees. In a minority Parliament, our parliamentary committees are an excellent tool to hold the government to account. People who are watching this today may have watched my NDP colleague from Vancouver Kingsway and I being stymied as the Liberals shut down our committee because there were not any resources to be virtual. They want this motion to pass because they do not want to be held to account.

Liberals are using this argument of safety as well, that they are trying to keep everyone safe. If they were trying to keep people safe in this place, they would be looking internally as to why there are unresolved allegations of sexual harassment with former Liberal staffers that keep getting swept under the rug. Their argument is bunk.

Now I want to make an argument in favour of being here that every member in this House should support, and I want to make a particular appeal to members of the governing party. We gather in this place so that we understand each other's differences and that we understand the needs of the people who are in our vast and diverse country. There are members of other parties who are asking why we should not do this if Manitoba is doing it.

Our country is very diverse. From being on the ground, I know from the residents of Skeena—Bulkley Valley that their member of Parliament should probably be talking to the member for Avalon. Why? It is because, if we are going to be united as a nation in this place, we need to talk to one another.

The governing Liberal Party is not particularly good at this. In my time here, I have known that the Liberal desire is to beat me and my constituents rather than work with us for the betterment of our country. I also know that that is the spirit of this. It is a lot easier for the governing party's whips to keep its caucus members managed and under control if they are not here, not talking to us and not opening their minds to what is in the best interest of this country or to looking for commonalities.

In my time in this place, my viewpoints on issues have been changed by people who come from other parts of this country. When they say that something is not in the best interest of their part of the country, or when I say the same thing to them on behalf of my constituents, we try to work to forward towards consensus. That could not happen if we are not interacting with each other. Every Canadian who has been on Zoom for the last 18 months knows that we cannot get the same interaction, those whites-of-the-eyeball interactions, if we are sitting at a computer screen with our pajamas on in our dens.

I send an appeal to my colleagues in the NDP, who it seems are going to support this motion. This would prevent them from being an active voice for their constituents on parliamentary committees. Members from the NDP have sat on committees with all of us when we have tried to get motions passed, and all of a sudden there are conveniently no resources because one of the Liberal chairs said so. Members of the NDP have tried to get questions answered on behalf of their constituents, and the ministers would not show up or would not do press conferences.

Every Canadian, even if they vote Liberal, should be concerned that the Prime Minister of Canada and the governing party are trying to make it so people cannot be here. It is actually crazy. We should be showing up for work. Let us think about this.

We are actually saying that somehow this does not matter, but it matters. Every day my eyes are opened up to what is happening across this country by people who represent other parts of it. I do not have to agree with everything. That is supposedly what this place is for.

Now, some of my colleagues have also raised the fact that if somebody is sick, could they not represent their constituents? I have been sick before, and I have still managed to represent my constituents. That is part of work. Every Canadian across this country, at some point in time, is going to get ill and be away from their job. It does not mean that they are not going to go back to their job, or that they are somehow not doing their job.

I would say that my colleagues, particularly with the examples they are using of one of my colleagues who is fully vaccinated but contracted COVID-19, are saying that somehow he does not want to be in this place or show up for work. That is not what he wants. We all want to be able to come here and hold the government to account.

I get it. I get that the government wants to be draconian. I get that the Prime Minister does not want to show up for work. Frankly, I think they are scared to be held to account. They are scared to be held to account on inflation, on the rising costs of everything, on out-of-work Canadians, on our changing economy, on the lack of ability of the government to do anything that resembles positive foreign affairs or on anything.

They are scared to be held to account even on the billions and billions of dollars the government has spent without the scrutiny of this place during the pandemic, which has already, with just the minimal amount of review we have been able do, shown great scandal. Let us remember the WE Charity scandal and the Kielburgers. They do not want that to happen, and that is why they do not want us to come here.

From what I am hearing, the NDP is going to support this. This is crazy. It really is. There is value in the dignity of coming here, into this space, to stand up for our constituents. It is why our constituents pay our salaries. To have a motion that says that we should not come here to try to learn from each other and our constituents is bananas. I ask every member in this place to stand against this so that we can get back to work and stand up for the best interests of Canadians.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Before I go to questions and comments, I do want to remind members that, unless they are standing up to speak, they should have their masks on.

We will continue with questions and comments. The hon. member for Kings—Hants.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Madam Speaker, there were portions of my hon. colleague's speech that I agreed with and there were some portions of it that I have real trouble with.

The portion I agreed with was the ability for us to come together as parliamentarians and learn from one another. That is a valid point.

The member talked about the definition of work of a member of Parliament. I unfortunately had to be home in Nova Scotia because of the circumstances during the last Parliament. I would ask the member to check the Hansard and check the e-blues. Does she think that I was not working? At the end of the day, in this Parliament, if I have a brush with COVID I want to be able to participate. Right now, she is going to be denying that with her position here in this House. Can the member answer that?

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Madam Speaker, I would remind my colleague that if he is standing in this place he is complying with the House of Commons rules for COVID-19 which were put in place to keep us safe. That is number one.

Number two, I highly doubt that my colleague across the way, even in his role as a member of Parliament in the back benches, has ever asked a question to hold the government to account. I doubt it is in there. Therefore, I actually do question whether he is doing his job.

I will not let the member take away my ability to stand up for my constituents and to hold the government to account. Shame on him, for suggesting that somehow we should not be in this place and supporting the government. The role of every member of Parliament who does not have a government appointment is to hold the government to account, including him, so he should be here. Even if he is not going to have the courage to stand up and hold the government to account, he should sure hope I will, on behalf of his constituents and every Canadian.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Madam Speaker, there are two problems before us today.

One is that the Liberals, as my colleague has clearly shown, want to limit debate and do not want to be held accountable for their actions. We saw plenty of that in the last parliament. For their part, the NDP members prefer to remain in their pyjamas in the basement. That is their choice.

The other problem I want to raise is the issue of safety. The science tells us that vaccines are effective. I believe that my Conservative colleagues could also do something to help. Perhaps their leader's weakness makes him complacent about certain members who do not have a good reason for not getting vaccinated.

That is why we are holding a rather surreal debate today with some of my Conservative colleagues forced to defend the indefensible or the fact that some of their colleagues doubt the effectiveness of vaccines. We could move forward much more quickly if my Conservative colleagues would finally agree that people must be fully vaccinated to come to the House of Commons.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Madam Speaker, I will take this opportunity to remind Canadians that vaccines are safe and effective. I am fully vaccinated, and I encourage any Canadian who is not vaccinated to avail themselves of that opportunity. Every member who is in this place is compliant with COVID-19 rules that are set out by the House of Commons by virtue of their presence here. Every member of the Conservative Party is in compliance with that.

No member in this place should be taking medical advice from the Liberal Party of Canada. What we should be doing, and what my Bloc colleagues should be doing, is making sure that we get back to work on behalf of all our constituents, and hold the government to account because it has a lot of explaining to do for a lot of things, like inflation, like mismanagement of funds. Parliament has a job to do, and that is to scrutinize the government. Let us get back to work.