Debates of Nov. 25th, 2021

Resuming Debate on the Order Respecting the Business of the House and its Committees

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I plan to be in the House every day that it sits, as long as my health is good enough to enable me to do so, and I plan to represent the constituents of Edmonton Strathcona as best as I can in person as often as I can. In the last Parliament, we were given assurances that the government would show up and that its members would be here, but often they were not, and as much as I appreciate the interventions my colleague has made, we heard many interventions from my colleague during the last Parliament.

I am just curious, and I know he has reassured us, but what reassurance do we have that the Liberals will be here, that they will answer questions and that they will allow me to play a role in opposition to the government?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, members would would think that no Liberal MP wanted to be here in the last Parliament, during the pandemic. That was not the case. People wanted to be here. People were asking all the time, “Can we come back to Ottawa?” It was about making the right decisions that were in the best interests of public health and safety at the time. As we have now learned, we can start to expand that and we can start to have more people in the room together.

The member asks for an assurance. She certainly knows I cannot provide her with one, other than to refer her back to what the House leader said yesterday. I have great confidence that people want to be in the House and that people will be here to answer the questions that come from the opposition and from government members.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Calgary Nose Hill explained at one point in her speech just now about MPs working. As the member would know, I would sit up on that screen, probably sitting in my seat at home in Nova Scotia, and would participate in the debates and be involved in the committee work.

Could my hon. colleague to speak to that fact? Let me be very clear that I intend to be here, but in the case that either my fiancée, who is a lawyer in Halifax, may be exposed to COVID, or maybe I could be exposed while travelling back and forth from Nova Scotia, I still want to have the privilege to be able to bring the voice of my constituents to this place, whether it be here physically or virtually. Can my colleague speak to the fact that working as a member of Parliament can be done virtually? It can be done here, but it needs to happen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I just want to apologize to my colleague from Kings—Hants again for the extremely ironic statement coming from somebody who was known to be out of the country while participating in Parliament and is now accusing a member—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. member for Elgin—Middlesex—London is rising on a point of order.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I really appreciate the passion this member has. I sat with him on PROC through a 73-day filibuster. My point of order is that the derogatory remark that he is about to make, has begun to make and has had—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

It is not derogatory.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member, but he is constantly bashing, and if the government is going to continue to talk about what a great job it is going to do in the House of Commons, perhaps he could show some restraint from always attacking my fellow member.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I thank the member for the intervention, but I think that is really a debate between two people.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, I think my hon. colleague from Kingston and the Islands was in the middle of drawing attention to the absence of a member from the House—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

On the contrary. She was here.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

—and now this member, who claims that Conservatives are disrespectful and will not follow the rules of decorum, is heckling in the middle of my comments. I just wonder if he could find a way to follow the rules and show the class that I know he can show, because I have seen it in the past, although not today.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

As members know, we cannot do indirectly what we cannot do directly. I would ask members to keep it on the line.

The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am shocked. I sit through question period and listen to what comes from that side of the House and then I get accused of bring derogatory for literally telling folks what happened. Maybe it is my tone, I do not know. I did not know tone was a thing in Parliament that would offend members so grievously. I apologize if that is the case.

To the member's question, there is no difference, which I have brought up on so many occasions, between participating virtually or physically in the House, and that is what this all comes down to. It comes down to this idea that members are not really here if they are participating virtually. That is what the Conservatives have been suggesting all along throughout the last session of the House and, indeed, what they are suggesting is going to happen now; that members are somehow not really in Parliament if they are participating virtually. They should really read the motion and the rules, because that is exactly not the case.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to point out that I was elected to represent the constituents of my riding of Peterborough—Kawartha. All of us in the House were elected to represent our constituents.

I am curious if my colleague or any of my Liberals colleagues have even asked their constituents if they are okay with them not showing up to work.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, again, it is the same rhetoric that we heard from the member for Calgary Nose Hill, a suggestion that members are not working if they are participating virtually.

We heard the member for Kings—Hants talk about the work he was doing during that time. To suggest that there is somehow a lack of work or that people are not working only makes me wonder if maybe that is the way the Conservative members took this. When they were supposed to be working virtually, they just were not working. If I am wrong, they should explain to me why I am wrong. That seems to be the only way the Conservatives are taking this. They are insisting that members are not working if they are not participating virtually, and it is just wrong.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Mr. Speaker, rising for the first time in the 44th Parliament, I have in mind the mandate given to me by the good people of South Surrey—White Rock. However, before that, I want to commend all British Columbia MPs in the House who showed passion, care and solutions last night in the emergency debate on British Columbia.

The mandate I was given was made very clear to me when I met with neighbours, friends, struggling small business owners, some who lost their businesses during the pandemic lockdowns, and voters at their doors: Go to Ottawa for us.

Our Armed Forces members are demoralized by constant criticism, without the balance of recognition for their hard work and, indeed, their heroism. The CAF would have appreciated a shout-out from the throne speech this week, but there was nothing there. Veterans are suffering because the government left many Afghan allies behind to be hunted down by the Taliban. The issues we need to address in this Parliament are too numerous to outline in a short speech.

We are choosing here to either advocate for Canadians in person in the House or allow MPs, despite vaccination proof masks and precautions throughout the parliamentary precinct, to stay distant on Zoom screens. This is an unnecessary buffer between government and the scrutiny of the Canadian people through its opposition parties. It is like two people trying to talk to each other with two masks on each with a plexiglass between them. We have all been there.

The Liberal government received just 32% of the popular vote. Unfortunately, government is formed by which party wins the most individual ridings, not the overall vote count.

I forgot to say, Mr. Speaker, that I am splitting my time with the member for Regina—Lewvan.

One would think that result would give the government some humility, some understanding that Canadians are looking for accountability and rigorous scrutiny, but no. The Prime Minister has said numerous times already that the government has a clear mandate. Does it, with 32% of the vote? I am not at all sure that Canadians would agree, and I know that people in my riding decidedly do not.

I am very proud of our Westminster parliamentary system, refined over centuries, of commoners elected by free people of free will in a free democracy, to hold those in power to account and, when required, to ensure a peaceful transition of power; a forum that provides a robust challenge function to those entrusted to govern us; a system where even the head of government and ministers are expected to participate in our form of question and answer debate, the back and forth of question period. This makes a prime minister and his or her leadership team directly accountable to the people.

Another hallmark is a professional civil service that supports our significant work here. Members of the public service are subject to the government's mandatory policies requiring them to be vaccinated or to prove an accepted exemption. They are here because they are in compliance. We are here because we are in compliance. There can be no honest suggestion that the House of Commons is somehow a more hazardous workplace than any other in Canada.

Her Majesty's official opposition is the caucus most seized with keeping the government in check and to stand ready to assume government. Equally tasked with upholding the best interests of the country writ large, it is built into this system that Parliament demonstrably provides the best way to hold government to account, which is and always has been in person.

The vast majority of workers in my riding do not have the option to work in a hybrid fashion, and are clear it is a condition of their continued employment to be double vaccinated and wear a mask. Some have lost their jobs as a result and are in great need. Most have obeyed these requirements and do not expect their MPs to be exempt from the rules by which they must abide. They do not expect us to have a elitist special accommodation.

We are here to represent them, not ourselves just because it is more convenient or comfortable for some to stay at home. No doubt we all want to be home more. As a B.C. MP, Ottawa is a 4,300-kilometre commute for me. However, we just had 20 months of doing our work from home and by Zoom. Should any individual MP require accommodation for a short time due to health, family or MP-related travel reasons, those exceptions can be made.

What about pairing, which has been brought up by others? Every opposition MP noted that even when we were allowed to be here in limited numbers, Liberal ministers often chose to participate by Zoom from their parliamentary offices. They should be in question period to answer the questions put to them; it is not backbench members of Parliament tasked with responding, ever.

Is it important to my constituents that we do our parliamentary work in person? Not one told me it was a good idea unless we had no other choice to be safe.

I would like to share with the House what some South Surrey—White Rock folks tell me, because they care about what we do in this place.

Dorothy said, “My only wish is that [the Speaker] will halt question period to new questions if the minister refuses to answer the question put forward. Canadians deserve better than they have been receiving from this Parliament.”

Don said, “Looking forward to seeing you in action in person.”

Speaking to the devastation in B.C., Patsy said, "Both levels of government were late to the table.”

Wade simply said, “Fix it.”

When I posted my appointed as shadow minister for National Defence, Don wrote, “Canada so desperately needs a serious voice on our national defence.”

Julie said, “Got a big job there, but keep on the minister.”

Colin said, “Ask the new Minister of National Defence about her government's lack of commitment to the previously announced timeline for the $19-billion purchase of fighter jets.”

Marie said, “I do hope you will finally be able to get back to Ottawa should we have a real government some day.”

Alana said, “Please do what you can. It is very scary what is happening.”

I have so many examples of people saying that.

Of course we do work in our ridings, of course it is work and of course it is important, but what we do here is unique. We are voted in to represent people who cannot have a voice here.

Darlene said, “Ethics in government means everything to me. Let's change the culture of Ottawa: no more scandals, no more corruption.”

Other people's issues include rebuilding their families' devastated small businesses, deep deficit and the concern about the country perhaps going bankrupt.

Harveer said, “We need a government that cares about our economy. The Parliament is an absolute mess due to the present government.”

Veterans groups want a military covenant and a military bill of rights.

There are just so many issues that need to be addressed here. We have all struggled through poor audio; poor video; intermittent connectivity; MPs embarrassing themselves on screen, which seemed to usually be on the government side; missed votes; overzealous use of the mute button; and straining of resources in both the House and in committee. That is enough.

I urge my fellow parliamentarians not to give onto ourselves special accommodations not afforded to millions of workers in the country, not to choose comfort over solemn duty. If we can send 276 delegates to COP26, the most in the G7, we can buck up and have 338 MPs in the House of Commons.

We all just took a new oath to conduct ourselves in the best interests of our country. That means being in our workplace doing our work. We have riding times set aside. The voters chose us to be their voices in this place, in person. Let us get to work.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I find it very difficult to understand why the Conservatives do not support this motion. All they have to do is look within their own ranks to find a member, the member for Beauce, who is not able to be engaged in all the procedures and abilities we have at our fingertips, whether it is debates, votes or possible committees. This is important for all members.

Why would the member opposite deny, by voting against this motion, members of Parliament today and going forward having access to do the fine work we do inside the chamber?

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the answer is quite obvious. This is a unique form of work that we do. We have work to do in our constituencies, and we have work to do here in Ottawa.

Doing the work here in Ottawa on Zoom screens is very problematic. As I have said, we have all experienced a lack of connectivity, people not being able to get in, ministers mixed up on who a question was actually going to, crackling and high voices on the screen. We do not need to do that right now to be safe. Those were temporary measures we agreed to.

Now, the whole parliamentary precinct is taking the appropriate precautions to keep us all safe. We can make some exceptions here and there for people who need a short-term accommodation. We should not make it a blanket one. It certainly should not go right through to next summer.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate you on your appointment. I would also like to quickly thank all my constituents in Beauport—Côte‑de‑Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix. This is my first time speaking in this 44th Parliament and I am honoured to represent them.

I would like to ask my colleague about something we are all familiar with, the high-calibre scientists we have in our country. This is especially true in Quebec, where we have eminent scientists who are highly respected and who have succeeded in convincing an overwhelming majority of Quebeckers to get vaccinated. Quebec is actually leading the way in that respect.

I would like to acknowledge the contribution scientists have made to the debate we are having today, and how grateful we are for science. Scientists point us in the right direction and make recommendations, so I would like to know if our colleague agrees that science, which goes beyond our layperson's remarks, might change things and lead his team and his colleagues to get vaccinated.

I would like to take the opportunity to say that today marks the 100th birthday of my uncle Roméo, my adopted father, who was one of the first people to get vaccinated in Charlevoix. That is likely the reason he is able to celebrate his 100th birthday today and he is looking forward to getting his booster.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Mr. Speaker, with due respect, unless the scientist is a member of Parliament, it is not that relevant to our discussion and debate here right now.

Of course science is important. I am double-vaccinated. I wear a mask except when I am speaking. We all do. My point was that we are all in compliance here. Our civil service is all in compliance here. This is no more hazardous or unsafe a workplace than any in Canada. In fact, I would suggest it is even more so.

At my recent swearing in, I was not allowed to take my adult children certain places in the precinct because of the precautions being taken here. We are being very careful, each and every one of us. It is safe to be here, and we should be here.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, congratulations.

I have a question with regard to safety. Would the Conservative Party support a review of Canadian-made PPE here on the Hill? In this country and also on the Hill, we have seen improper PPE. I am concerned about the staff, the people here on the Hill, as well as ourselves. We have invested in Canadian companies to transition.

Would Conservatives support that type of initiative?

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Mr. Speaker, one of the greatest travesties in this pandemic is the government's call-out to companies to manufacture PPE here in Canada, and then to ignore the many companies that started up with perfectly compliant PPE and go, instead, to big conglomerates.

Of course I support self-reliance, and I support PPE made in Canada.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Mr. Speaker, as this is my first time on my feet in the 44th Parliament, I have a few words of thanks for the people who have allowed me to take my place in this august chamber once again. That starts with the voters of Regina—Lewvan.

This is my second term. The class of 2019 had an unusual first session of Parliament. We were in this chamber for about five weeks, at the start of our parliamentary careers, and then COVID hit on about March 13-14, 2020. It was a different experience for us. We went through the hybrid experience. Speaking for some on this side and maybe some others, that was not the best experience for us as parliamentarians. It added an extra level of difficulty. Being new members of Parliament also added to how we thought we needed to represent our constituents and how we needed to stand up for them in this place.

A lot of people who voted for me said, “Please be Regina—Lewvan's voice in Ottawa”, not Regina—Lewvan's voice on a screen and not Regina—Lewvan's voice sometimes in Ottawa. When the House is sitting, voters want us to be in our chairs here because that is our job. Our job is to represent our constituents in this chamber, to be their voice and to bring forward their concerns to the government. The opposition's job is to propose and oppose. I think that is very important for us to do. It is incumbent on all of us to think about how we could do that best. I have heard a lot of Liberal members say they are going to be here regardless of whether hybrid sittings happen. Why do we not continue with that tradition?

Members have talked about our member for Beauce. Is he the only person who has ever had a health care issue and could not come to the chamber? It has been happening since the start of sessions in the chamber. People have health care issues that mean they cannot come here. When they get better, they come back to sit in the House and do their jobs. It has always been that way.

I think the idea of pairing, which the member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes brought up, is a very good idea. It is a proposition from us that suggests a different way of doing things without there being a bit of leverage for not being in the chamber.

Why could we not use pairing? I have not heard a response from the Liberal government, or from our NDP colleagues who are propping up the Liberal government's decision to take away accountability, about why that would not be an option for us to make sure that we could continue to do our jobs in this chamber.

I grew up on a dairy farm in Rush Lake, Saskatchewan. There was no way that we could ever virtually milk a cow. I represent people who have to go to work every day regardless of their health, regardless of whether they want to get up, and regardless of whether they had a long night the night before. People have to get up and they have to go to work. That is for dairy farmers, people who have to put hay up, ranchers and people who have to harvest. There is no virtual harvesting of products in Saskatchewan. People have to get up every day to go to work. My friend Dieter, who runs a cement company, cannot pour cement over a screen. People have to get up and go to work every day to make sure they can support their families.

That is what we are talking about today. Why do Liberal members think it is okay for us not to have to show up for the people we represent? They do it for us all the time. Every day they get up and go to work because they have to. During the pandemic, the people who work at grocery stores did not have the choice to say they were not going to go to work because they did not feel good or just did not feel like they wanted to.

That being said, members always have the ability to not come to the chamber. If a Liberal member does not feel well and wants to keep people safe, they can not come. If a person is sick, they should not come to the chamber. That is how this works. That is our responsibility. If someone does not want to spread a sickness, they should not come to the chamber if they are not feeling well. We have a personal responsibility as well. We are all adults in this chamber. Why can we not do that? Why does the government have to make a rule to tell people not to come to work if they do not feel well? That is what I ask. We can do that on our own. We are intelligent people.

Accountability is what this is all about. The government thinks it can hide over virtual Parliament until June of 2022. My constituents in Regina—Lewvan do not want that. They want us to be in this chamber. They want government ministers to be answering questions in person instead of having technical difficulties over Zoom. That is what I am talking about.

There are also two different sides to Liberal members. There are Liberal members and the House leader in the media saying it is all about safety. Then the cameras go off and they are hugging people all over during our opening day. Each and every one of these members went and hugged people throughout the chamber on opening day when we were here. What is the difference? Why is that okay? Is it because there are no media and they can feign their hypocrisy?

When the cameras are on, it is all about safety, hand over heart. Then they can jump on a plane, go to COP and rub shoulders with Leonardo DiCaprio. That is okay. They can go and hang out with their global elitists in Glasgow, but they cannot stand up for their constituents in this chamber. That is what we get with a few of the Liberal members.

Some Liberal members have the best intentions. I have worked with the member for Kings—Hants on the agriculture committee and he has done his duty on agriculture, but I am sure he would rather be here. I am sure he would rather be in this chamber. Actually, I heard him say that. There is the Maritime bubble. If I am able, I would rather be in the chamber.

I wish some Liberal members would have talked to their leadership like that before this motion was brought forward. I think there are a lot of Liberal members who feel like their jobs should be in this chamber, and they want to be here as much as possible. However, they did not have a caucus meeting until 50 days after the election, so they probably never got a chance to have that conversation. Unfortunately, if there was a bit more collaboration on the Liberal benches, maybe they would have heard their members and said, “It is time for most Canadians to go to work to earn a paycheque and we should, too.”

When it comes down to it, what we are really talking about is the need for us to be leaders and to show the people who sent us here, after a $600-million cabinet shuffle, that we are going to be here and standing up for their rights. Liberal members must feel that same way, because I do not think someone puts their name on a ballot to sit in front of a screen. I do not think any of them did that. I believe in my heart that they want to represent their constituents as well.

I am hoping that when all is said and done, we make sure the Liberal front benches hear from their back benches that they want to come to work, too. To have this motion on the Order Paper and say we are going to shut down real Parliament until June 2022 shows that this is more about political gamesmanship than about the safety of those here. I believe that the parliamentary precinct has done a great job of making this a safe place. I believe they worked hard and they did all they could to make sure we could do our jobs over virtual Parliament when we had to, but now we can do this in person.

I will give a shameless plug to the Saskatchewan Roughriders. They are having a home playoff game on Sunday. There are going to be 33,000 people at Mosaic Stadium watching our Riders beat the Calgary Stampeders. If we can do that, if we can fly to Glasgow and rub shoulders with global elites at COP, 338 of us can sit here in this chamber to make sure we are passing laws for the people of Canada and make sure we are going to work to represent our constituents.

That is what I want to do and that is what my request is. To some of the back bench Liberals, talk to the front benches and ask if it is not possible that we can sit here in person and make sure we are doing our jobs so that each and every Canadian has a representative in this chamber.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would encourage the hon. member to stand in this place and apologize to all Canadians who, through the course of this pandemic, did the right thing. They still worked, but worked virtually. To students—